Milwaukee Bucks boycott Game 5 vs Orlando

Light-Tower-Power

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The possibility of that 35% number may be shaking the resolve of some of the lower to middle tier players.
And keep in mind the guys on the outside of the bubble looking in. It affects them too if the CBA gets nuked, and they don't have direct involvement in whether the season continues or not.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Really interested to see where leadership surfaces on the players' side from here and just what those players do. I wonder how proactive Silver can be; he may be judged on how he responds to the players' vision. He's probably the most praised commissioner in professional sports, so perhaps he's up for the moment.

I was cynical about the messaging on the court and jerseys, which didn't seem like it disrupted the status quo in any meaningful way, but cancelling last night's game feels different. I think there can be a reasonable debate on the best way to move forward, whether players coalesce behind one message or individuals pursue their own goals. There are a lot of factors--personal and financial--to consider in that debate.
I think Silver's problem is he needs to be clear what the owners are willing to do. That no doubt came up in the Board meeting today, but is tricky for him given what I expect are some pretty different perspectives among the owners.
 

bankshot1

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If I were the players, and considering what our "ask" should be, I might prioritize trying to have the NBA lean on the networks that broadcast their games and have sister news networks (TNT -> CNN, ESPN -> ABC), to alter their coverage of the social-justice movement.
Tactically, that might include things like more explicitly labeling provable lies by politicians, specific close-up coverage of local policing, greater emphasis on sharing news and best practices around policing and justice policy, and a willingness to allow, even encourage, anchors to voice their own opinions to call for change or action (e.g. to call for holding specific people accountable). There are doubtless many other ways that they could find ways to improve the honesty, thoroughness and relative emphasis of the topic on general news coverage.

This isn't the days of the Big 3 Networks, but ABC and CNN still have a tremendous amount of power to shape opinion. It's not quite what NFL and MLB players could do to lean on Fox Sports and the regional affiliates, in terms of reaching incremental people who need to hear the message, but it'd be a big start and could result in some snowballing in that direction. And IIRC Fox does a lot of MLS coverage, so that might be an even likelier vector for the calls to spread. It'd be a bold but achievable goal.
I think your heart's in the right place, but asking the NBA players to "ask" the networks to shape news or present news that pleases a certain consituency is dangerous. i want my information from as many "independent" sources as possible and then decide what makes sense. I think the "ask" you ask for would set a dangerous precedent. If the NBA players can pressure networks to deliver news in a certain way, why not others, who may pressure for news or conclusions you may not agree with.

And it might be a very bad look, turned against the players, as in for example, Fox News saying the NBA players are censoring freedom of the press by their pressure tactics.

If a network has an editorial stance that's fine, but it should be labeled as such, but it should be separate from its news division.

As posted before I think the ask should be TV time to let the NBA players speak whats on their mind. Americans then can decide to listen or not to listen.
 

Ale Xander

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So, it seems logical everything will be moved 2 days/1game forward? I.e. Celtics will play game 1 when game 2 was scheduled? And game 5's in earlier round for when game 6's were scheduled?
 

riboflav

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This was expected. This will be perceived as drama by those who didn't have strong feelings one way or another.

Edit: Yes, Jared will almost certainly take credit. Oh well.
 

djbayko

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So much for that
Let’s wait to see what happens. Maybe this is more of a “We’ll play but XYZ needs to happen.” They may have also realized that they have a bigger platform from which to voice their concerns if they continue to play in front of cameras vs going home.
 

Red Averages

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Yup. Am I alone in hoping that LeBron and Kawhi still remain out to keep up this dialogue?
I'm a big believer of out of sight out of mind. I think their ability to create an impact is improved by being in the spotlight. Going home would likely have a short term impact that is forgotten about soon after. Kaep kneeling was August 2016, 4 years ago. It is coming back now because players are back in the spotlight on the issue. For four years, it would come up briefly, but then be forgotten (my opinion) as the world kept moving on. My hope would be that the players can find a way to use their platform to spread the message they want that can lead to change. Perhaps that is players from other teams speaking during games? Perhaps it's leading to legislative changes occurring by giving politicians a way to score points by bringing a bigger light to initiatives. Others far smarter than me, will have better ideas, but I think the main thing is keeping attention on them, but staying in the bubble and getting consistent messaging.

While I have the floor, "The Hate U Give" was a 2018 movie, that had an impact on me and my wife watching it. "Starr witnesses the fatal shooting of her childhood best friend Khalil at the hands of a police officer. Now, facing pressure from all sides of the community, Starr must find her voice and stand up for what's right." Stories that bring messages to light can have a real impact, but maybe that's just how i process information. I know I have a lot of listening to do to better understand others point of view that I have the privilege of not having to think about on a daily basis.
 

BigSoxFan

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Let’s wait to see what happens. Maybe this is more of a “We’ll play but XYZ needs to happen.” They may have also realized that they have a bigger platform from which to voice their concerns if they continue to play in front of cameras vs going home.
Yup. We’ll see what they negotiated. Hopefully it’s airtime or something along those lines.
 

cornwalls@6

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First thought I had. Fuck.
Meh, anybody who's stupid enough to believe that Kushner had anything to do with it, isn't reachable anyway. I hope they got some meaningful commitments out of the owners to tangibly increase their contributions to the cause of racial justice. That was probably always the way a threatened walk-out could be most effective. And I think this entire episode makes a big, positive, impact on their fanbase, particularly the younger portion. If it serves as one more nudge to get big voter turnout among that group, it was absolutely worth it.
 

tbb345

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Meh, anybody who's stupid enough to believe that Kushner had anything to do with it, isn't reachable anyway. I hope they got some meaningful commitments out of the owners to tangibly increase their contributions to the cause of racial justice. That was probably always the way a threatened walk-out could be most effective. And I think this entire episode makes a big, positive, impact on their fanbase, particularly the younger portion. If it serves as one more nudge to get big voter turnout among that group, it was absolutely worth it.
100%. While I highly doubt that it’s the major impact that all of us were hoping for when this started, I can almost guarantee that they got at least a few tangible things from the owners in response to this
 

mauf

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Alive! At the end of the day money talks and the financial ramifications of canceling the playoffs were probably the deciding factor.
You know this, but there are talented people who have made it their life’s work to organize disadvantaged communities, register people to vote, advocate for police reform, and so on. We don’t need professional athletes to lead those efforts. They can do a tremendous amount of good for those efforts as public ambassadors and financial supporters. NBA players can probably do those things better with the platform and paychecks the NBA affords them, even if that means being stuck in the bubble. So, I think they are right to go back.

I also think they were right to walk out for two days. The analogy someone made upthread to the COVID stoppage in March was apt — the stoppage of a major sports league during the playoffs is a big deal, and it wouldn’t have been as impactful if we had known all along it would be temporary. And while I think players could’ve gotten what they wanted from NBA owners without a work stoppage, the cultural moment they created with the brief stoppage, without giving up all the benefits of continuing to play, was a nearly optimal strategy.
 
I certainly support the players in whatever route they choose to pursue here. But wouldn't it be great if the biggest star in each team chose to sit out the rest of the postseason and pursue a social justice agenda (e.g., LBJ registering voters in Ohio), while everyone else carried the playoffs through to a conclusion so the players as a whole could keep their TV money?
 

Marciano490

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Is there any problem that jack-of-all-trades Jared can't fix? He's part MacGyver, part Doc Savage.

Jennifer Jacobs
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Jared Kushner says he'll reach out to @KingJames today. "What I'd love to see from the players in the NBA--again they have the luxury of taking a night off from work, most Americans don't...I'd like to see them start moving into concrete solutions that are productive." @politico
9:23 AM · Aug 27, 2020
I’ll be reaching out to Pedro to see if he wants to play catch with me this weekend.

I hope LeBron left him on read and goes out of his way to debunk the notion that the great author of Middle Eastern peace had anything to do with the decision to resume play.
 

ElUno20

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You know this, but there are talented people who have made it their life’s work to organize disadvantaged communities, register people to vote, advocate for police reform, and so on. We don’t need professional athletes to lead those efforts. They can do a tremendous amount of good for those efforts as public ambassadors and financial supporters. NBA players can probably do those things better with the platform and paychecks the NBA affords them, even if that means being stuck in the bubble. So, I think they are right to go back.

I also think they were right to walk out for two days. The analogy someone made upthread to the COVID stoppage in March was apt — the stoppage of a major sports league during the playoffs is a big deal, and it wouldn’t have been as impactful if we had known all along it would be temporary. And while I think players could’ve gotten what they wanted from NBA owners without a work stoppage, the cultural moment they created with the brief stoppage, without giving up all the benefits of continuing to play, was a nearly optimal strategy.
This is so lost on people. It amazes me how such smart people cant grasp something so basic.

And the judging and criticizing of what they should or shouldn't do. If i didnt already have zero faith in my fellow Americans, that would have also driven me up the wall.

The audacity of telling other people how or if they should take a stand for something they believe in is unbelievable.

Good on them for doing anything.
 

djbayko

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I certainly support the players in whatever route they choose to pursue here. But wouldn't it be great if the biggest star in each team chose to sit out the rest of the postseason and pursue a social justice agenda (e.g., LBJ registering voters in Ohio), while everyone else carried the playoffs through to a conclusion so the players as a whole could keep their TV money?
I think they're stronger together...and on TV with millions watching. The Lebrons of the league can (and are) spend their millions on such endeavors while continuing to stand with their teammates and using that platform to further their cause.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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I expect the players will probably pressure the league and the networks to provide some time during NBA telecasts for PSA's and the like messaging social justice concerns.

Maybe even the owners and players together will kick in some dough to get those spots to run outside of NBA programming.

At first, I cynically eye-rolled at that solution... but on reflection I think it could be productive.
 
I think they're stronger together...and on TV with millions watching. The Lebrons of the league can (and are) spend their millions on such endeavors while continuing to stand with their teammates and using that platform to further their cause.
That's actually why I think it would work so well to have some players leave even as most stay - the playoffs would go on, but the missing elephants in the room would be *the* topic of conversation. Literally everything about the playoffs, from whether the title would be "legitimate" to which players would step up in the absence of the stars, would bring you back to the protests and what the stars are doing. As things stand, if everyone goes back to playing, it'll be so much easier for the average fan to tune out anything he or she wants to tune out and instead focus on the on-court action. To really make a difference, the on-court product needs to change in a perceptible way.

That said, I also agree with @mauf that the players are who they are and shouldn't be criticized for any decision they make. (Unless Kyrie is involved in making the decision, of course.)
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I expect the players will probably pressure the league and the networks to provide some time during NBA telecasts for PSA's and the like messaging social justice concerns.

Maybe even the owners and players together will kick in some dough to get those spots to run outside of NBA programming.

At first, I cynically eye-rolled at that solution... but on reflection I think it could be productive.
They've already pledged $300M minimum - https://www.nbcnews.com/news/sports/nba-foundation-created-pledges-300-million-black-growth-n1235984 - and there are already PSAs and the like.

Not that it matters but I think the players resuming play is the correct move because, as people have mentioned, the players have no ask. The problems are deeply rooted in our current system. There are no easy answers, and from where I sit, there aren't even any symbolic ones.

Hopefully, the conversations that are occurring among the players will keep continuing both as play resumes and after the season ends, and they players can take this energy and do something on a collective level. While I think individual efforts are great, I think they could leverage a collective effort to do more.
 

BigSoxFan

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That's actually why I think it would work so well to have some players leave even as most stay - the playoffs would go on, but the missing elephants in the room would be *the* topic of conversation. Literally everything about the playoffs, from whether the title would be "legitimate" to which players would step up in the absence of the stars, would bring you back to the protests and what the stars are doing. As things stand, if everyone goes back to playing, it'll be so much easier for the average fan to tune out anything he or she wants to tune out and instead focus on the on-court action. To really make a difference, the on-court product needs to change in a perceptible way.

That said, I also agree with @mauf that the players are who they are and shouldn't be criticized for any decision they make. (Unless Kyrie is involved in making the decision, of course.)
I don’t think anyone is criticizing the players in this thread. People just have different opinions about the approach and it’s obviously easy for us to question when we don’t have our livelihoods on the line. I commend these players for standing up and I hope they were able to negotiate some meaningful measures.
 

PC Drunken Friar

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I certainly support the players in whatever route they choose to pursue here. But wouldn't it be great if the biggest star in each team chose to sit out the rest of the postseason and pursue a social justice agenda (e.g., LBJ registering voters in Ohio), while everyone else carried the playoffs through to a conclusion so the players as a whole could keep their TV money?
I mean, he can do both.



And the season will end with more than enough time to do more stuff.
 

bsj

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Let’s wait to see what happens. Maybe this is more of a “We’ll play but XYZ needs to happen.” They may have also realized that they have a bigger platform from which to voice their concerns if they continue to play in front of cameras vs going home.
I'm pretty sure they realized that 35% could be financially crippling but maybe I am wrong.
 

tbb345

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I'm pretty sure they realized that 35% could be financially crippling but maybe I am wrong.
I think you’re right but the owners also lose money if the season ends. it’s 100% more crippling to the players but it does have an impact on the owners.

It seems like most of the owners care more about their bottom line than any moral code or social obligation. Agreeing to donate $X amount of money to charitable causes or potentially calling in political favors leaves them with more money than the alternative
 

DJnVa

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That's actually why I think it would work so well to have some players leave even as most stay - the playoffs would go on, but the missing elephants in the room would be *the* topic of conversation.
I said that yesterday. A Celtics/Raptors game 1 tonight with Jaylen Brown and Fred Van Vleet sitting out, but being very visible, would send a message.
 

bakahump

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So do I sound like a jerk if i wonder had Lebron and the LA Lebrons been down 3-1 that he would have pushed harder for a stoppage?
 

Tangled Up In Red

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So do I sound like a jerk if i wonder had Lebron and the LA Lebrons been down 3-1 that he would have pushed harder for a stoppage?
Maybe. I think his actions have been pretty consistent lately. He's been putting $$ where his mouth is and acting as a leader for good.
 

genoasalami

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So do I sound like a jerk if i wonder had Lebron and the LA Lebrons been down 3-1 that he would have pushed harder for a stoppage?
Do i sound like a bigger jerk by saying that most of America could care less if they play or not?
 

Euclis20

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Guess I’ll be the asshole that says this bought us 3 days closer to getting Hayward back.
I'll be the guy who responds saying the short delay is more beneficial to the Raptors (Lowry is day to day) than it is to the Celtics (Hayward is still weeks away).
 

JCizzle

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They always do this. The league doesn’t want interest to wane, or key TV slots to go unfilled, if only a couple first-round series go 6 or 7 games.
Simmons also said in a recent podcast that the NBA is looking to aggressively push the schedule as much as possible to reduce the time that players need to spend in the bubble. Even more so than usual. Understandably people want to get home.
 

Clears Cleaver

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This was expected. This will be perceived as drama by those who didn't have strong feelings one way or another.

Edit: Yes, Jared will almost certainly take credit. Oh well.
that's total BS. He didn't do shiite. We all know Chairman Mao called Silver and told them no more money unless the players got back on the court.