Mike Carp's future with Sox uncertain, could be traded before Opening Day

soxhop411

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Mike Carp, who found tremendous success in limited playing time with the Red Sox in 2013, could still be traded before Opening Day, according to a source
 
Carp filed for salary arbitration on Tuesday and has until Friday to come to an agreement with the Red Sox, otherwise the two sides would go to an arbitration panel to determine his salary for 2014. While some players sign contract extensions to avoid arbitration, there is "zero chance" Carp signs an extension with the Red Sox, according to the source.
The Red Sox still have 2 1/2 months before Opening Day to finalize their 2014 roster, and Carp could be one of the moving pieces left.
 
 
While one general manager indicated in December that the Red Sox have appeared unwilling to discuss trades for Carp or Daniel Nava in the past, Carp has significant value after a career year and he comes with an inexpensive salary, which is expected to be around $1.3 million in 2014, according to MLB Trade Rumors. He isn't eligible for free agency until 2017.
http://www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2014/01/mike_carps_future_with_boston.html
 
 
(abs said to let the rumor thread die, and I could not find a Carp related thread to post this in)
 

nvalvo

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I would be unhappy if this happened, barring real value for him in trade, of course. I think he's a tremendous talent, a guy with very plausible middle of the order potential, and we're going to need more of those guys soon. 
 
Our DH is awesome, but he's also really old. 
 
But Carp understandably wants more playing time. Here's a situation where the Cherington and Farrell need to earn their paychecks, balancing the needs of different players. 
 

Puffy

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Perplexing report.  It's hard to imagine a realistic trade involving Carp that wouldn't weaken the roster going forward.  He is such a good fit in terms of depth and roster flexibility.
 

mabrowndog

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Rudy Pemberton said:
It is puzzling. There's zero chance he agrees to a contract to avoid arb; or there's zero chance he signs a long term deal? I wouldn't expect either side would want to do a long term deal frankly.
 
I interpret "extension" as meaning a long-term deal, one that extends beyond 2014. He has little to gain by refusing to negotiate a pre-arb settlement for the upcoming season, and risks losing his case at the hearing and having to accept Boston's figure if he does refuse.
 

mauf

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The Sox streak of avoiding arb might come to an end, but otherwise nothing to see here.

Lest we forget, when we last saw the Sox, Farrell seemed bearish on Daniel Nava. Carp is their best alternative for the strong half of that platoon, projects to be an above-average offensive player this season, and probably wouldn't be materially worse than Nava defensively. I think the plan is to keep both of them and figure at least one of the two is likely to deserve to play every day (and if both do, that's a happy problem). If they have to go through arbitration with Carp to get there, so what?
 

vadertime

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bosockboy said:
Interesting dovetail with today's report of Drew willing to play other positions.  
How? I view that as Drew being willing to consider 3B & 2B...I don't see him playing 1B or LF like Carp.
 
And did the new CBA change arbitration?  It says in the article that if they don't reach a deal by Friday it goes to the arbitration panel.  I thought teams could negotiate right up until minutes before a hearing and hearings aren't scheduled to start until Feb 1.
 

Doctor G

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The Drew news is more likely directed at  Cashman pending a Tanaka signing. 
 

ji oh

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Rudy Pemberton said:
I don't really see how you can trade Carp. Isn't he our primary backup 1b? In the event of an injury to Napoli, who would play 1b if he were traded? Nava, which would weaken OF depth? I don't think the Sox have enough depth at 1b to risk moving Carp.
 
If Carp is moved, it will be because the team can add a better OF, who can be a real backup to CF and RF.
 

Average Reds

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That article is not what I would call solid reporting.  We all know that the Sox have avoided an actual arbitration hearing for a long time and the reporter seems to be building off that and tossing out a lot of speculation.
 
Is it possible that Carp will be moved?  Of course.  But he's a cheap player who gave solid production and fills a few roles.  He's also under team control until 2017, so I don't really care if he wants to play every day.  (More to the point, I'd be concerned if he didn't want to play every day.)  Why on earth would the Sox trade him unless they could get a King's ransom back? 
 

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Average Reds said:
That article is not what I would call solid reporting.  We all know that the Sox have avoided an actual arbitration hearing for a long time and the reporter seems to be building off that and tossing out a lot of speculation.
 
Is it possible that Carp will be moved?  Of course.  But he's a cheap player who gave solid production and fills a few roles.  He's also under team control until 2017, so I don't really care if he wants to play every day.  (More to the point, I'd be concerned if he didn't want to play every day.)  Why on earth would the Sox trade him unless they could get a King's ransom back? 
 
I agree.   His splits look good, the handedness splits being less extreme than I thought.  http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=carpmi01&year=&t=b
 
Unless there's a "sell high" component (such as the Sox thinking he's got an unfixable hole in his swing) he looks like an excellent low cost, good potential, 28 year old, backup 1B/DH, quasi-emergency OF type.   (Whereas Nava is the "backup" corner OF, emergency 1B type.)  
 
If you could trade one or both for a similar offensive package that can play all the OF positions, you might do it.  Otherwise, the Sox would just be creating holes.  
 

TomRicardo

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LHB 1B / sorta OF is more important than another OF.  We have Nava/Gomes/JBJ/Victorino already for OF.  Bench is Gomes/Carp/Ross/Herrera.  
 
Though our two best CF in our system are Justin Henry and Henry Ramos.  I suppose if Victorino or JBJ got hurt Linares, Henry, or Wilkerson would be the call up. 
 

joe dokes

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That article is not what I would call solid reporting.  We all know that the Sox have avoided an actual arbitration hearing for a long time and the reporter seems to be building off that and tossing out a lot of speculation.
 
Is it possible that Carp will be moved?  Of course.  But he's a cheap player who gave solid production and fills a few roles.  He's also under team control until 2017, so I don't really care if he wants to play every day.  (More to the point, I'd be concerned if he didn't want to play every day.)  Why on earth would the Sox trade him unless they could get a King's ransom back? 
 
Isn't the bolded part wrong?:
Carp filed for salary arbitration on Tuesday and has until Friday to come to an agreement with the Red Sox, otherwise the two sides would go to an arbitration panel to determine his salary for 2014
 
 
I thought they could come up with an agreement right up until showtime, "on the courthouse steps," as it were.
 

BCsMightyJoeYoung

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joe dokes said:
 
Isn't the bolded part wrong?:
 
I thought they could come up with an agreement right up until showtime, "on the courthouse steps," as it were.
 
They can .. although I'm not sure if the deadline is the Arb. hearing or the decision. One suspects its the hearing but I don't know for sure. IIRC, the Red Sox have not had to resort to the Arbitrator's ruling during the John Henry era.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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The deadline is when each side puts their desired salary figure on the table for the arbitrator to decide from.  Pretty sure negotiation can continue right up until the arbitrator gives his decision.  I think the closest call in the Henry ownership era was with Ortiz a couple years ago, where they announced their agreement outside the arbitration office the morning of the hearing.
 

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So correct me where I am wrong here:
 
First name = starter or LHH half of platoon; second name = backup or RHH.
 
LF:  Nava, Gomes, Carp
CF:  JBJ, Shane
RF:  Shane, Nava
1B:  Napoli, Carp, Nava, Ortiz (NL parks)
2B:  Pedroia, UI
SS:  X, UI
3B:  WMB, UI (or X)
C: AJ, Ross
DH:  Ortiz, Carp
 
That's 13 guys, leaving 12 for the pen.
 
I can see where replacing Carp could fit in this roster, but I'm not sure how it can be done and be an upgrade on what Carp provides.  If you replace Carp with a CF/RF type player, that means that Nava becomes the backup 1B, which is OK, I guess, but that means that you are having Gomes or Nava playing on their weak side of a split.
 
I don't see the big deal about Carp going to Arb.  That's what it's there for.
 

JimD

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Puffy said:
Perplexing report.  It's hard to imagine a realistic trade involving Carp that wouldn't weaken the roster going forward.  He is such a good fit in terms of depth and roster flexibility.
 
 
 
Exactly.  Unless some team blows the FO away with a really strong offer, I think Mike Carp's immediate future as a member of the Boston Red Sox is very certain.
 

Mike F

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I've heard that thought expressed as
A reliable source of misinformation!
 

mabrowndog

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Marbleheader said:
So, Masslive is not a credible inside the clubhouse source? Surprising.
 
Jason is the new guy on the block there. His predecessor on the Sox beat, Evan Drellich, kicked ass and took names last year, and just became the Astros' beat writer for the Houston Chronicle.
 
For those unaware, MassLive is the Springfield Republican's web portal, and they're hardly a small-town paper.
 

Plympton91

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Mike Carp is the primary depth for David Ortiz and Mike Napoli, as well as the deep depth in LF and RF (Nava in RF, Carp in LF) against righthanded pitching. I see absolutely no reason to trade him at less than 100 cents on the dollar. Nagging injuries to both Victorino and Bradley that weren't serious enough for the DL would be a temporary roster problem, but that contingency isn't worth worrying about now.
 

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If the Red Sox are going to replace Papi internally, I think Carp is by far the best option they have.  The only other name that's even a possibility is Travis Shaw.  Ortiz turned 38 in November.  I know we don't like to think about it, but his decline and the end of his career are not far away.  Would anyone be surprised if he went from being one of the best bats in the game to someone who needs to be platooned against lefties this year?  Granted, Carp doesn't help as part of a Papi platoon this year, but in the next 24 months we will need to replace Papi and I want Carp around to do it.  The fact that he's also insurance for Mike Napoli is just gravy.
 
I don't think the Sox trade him for 100 cents on the dollar.  I think they need significantly more than that to decide it's worth parting with him as an asset.
 

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The ONLY reasons to move Carp would be if he was a necessary chip in a trade they otherwise wanted to make or he became a problem/distraction based on his role.  Neither scenario seems at all likely and, as a result, they should keep him.  And I think they will.
 

ji oh

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In terms of replacing Papi soon or in a year or two, or backing up Napoli, are we thinking of Carp as an .885 OPS guy as he was last year, or as an .800 OPS guy who needs a platoon mate, or as having the potential to be even better than last year?  It's great to think that last year was his true talent emerging after injuries and the big Seattle park kept his stats down before.  And I've long suggested that his track record suggests that he wouldn't have a big platoon split if played every day.  But this is alll very uncertain, isn't it?
 

Snodgrass'Muff

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He has a 122 wRC+ versus lefties over his career.  That's 166 plate appearances, so it's still small sample size territory, but he's yet to demonstrate an inability to hit left handed pitching.  I don't know if he's a high .800's OPS guy long term, but he seems like a pretty good bet and the best internal option they have to be the team's next DH.
 

nvalvo

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Snodgrass'Muff said:
He has a 122 wRC+ versus lefties over his career.  That's 166 plate appearances, so it's still small sample size territory, but he's yet to demonstrate an inability to hit left handed pitching.  I don't know if he's a high .800's OPS guy long term, but he seems like a pretty good bet and the best internal option they have to be the team's next DH.
 
His platoon splits in the minors are similarly inconclusive. Some years he showed splits, other years he didn't. Of the significant samples, 2010 was bad (.907 OPS v RHP in 384 PA; .518 vs. LHP in 120 PA), while 2011 was great (.926 OPS vs RHP in 447 PA; .890 vs. LHP in 152 PA). 
 

redsox2020

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Played for a bad team in a bad park, had some injuries, then came to Boston & started hitting the cover off the ball.  Sound familiar?  I know a lot of people want to write him off as a quality backup or just a platoon guy, but is there anything to indicate he couldn't succeed in a full time role if the opportunity presented itself?
 

kazuneko

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TheoShmeo said:
The ONLY reasons to move Carp would be if he was a necessary chip in a trade they otherwise wanted to make or he became a problem/distraction based on his role.  Neither scenario seems at all likely and, as a result, they should keep him.  And I think they will.
Sorry, but this is simply not true. Having to carry two defensively limited players (Carp and Gomes) on the same bench is challenging. It limits roster flexibility and prevents the team from being able to pursue solid back-up/platoon players at other positions of need, in particular 3B and the OF. 
In the OF, currently Victorino - a player with multiple chronic ailments- is the back-up at CF for JBJ,  an unproven rookie.  If JBJ were to struggle and Victorino were to end up on the DL (and neither option is that unlikely) this OF could get very bad in a hurry. Meanwhile, at 3B the team is currently relying on Will Middlebrooks, an unproven 3rd year player who just last season began his campaign with a 3 month stretch of futility that eventually led to his benching.  If a similar scenario emerges who fills in next season? Jonathan Herrera (and his career .645 OPS away from Coors)?
Having to carry Carp on this roster prevented the Sox from pursuing players like Rajai Davis (who could have platooned with JBJ and been a solid glove on the bench) and Eric Chavez (who could have backed up both Napoli and Middlebrooks). Carp is cheap and may someday be valuable as a Papi replacement, but on a team with Nava on the roster and other needs for the bench you could see why you'd have to consider trading him.
Of course you could make the argument that if you wanted to free up a roster space you'd be better off jettisoning Gomes, but there are a couple of issues with this. A.) Gomes is overpaid and unlikely to have much value to other teams. B.) Unlike Carp, he hits right-handed and is therefore useful as a Nava platoon partner. C) Clubhouse chemistry. It would be hard to trade a guy that the media/management has spent months applauding as one of the veteran leaders of a championship team.
With the free agent market all but barren I'm not actually sure if I'd advocate trading Carp now or not. I suppose it depends on what you could get in return. If Carp could land you a Chris Denorfia you'd have to seriously consider it. At least for the 2014 team this would seem a far more effective use of roster space.
Also, it's important to remember that trading Carp now could very well be selling high. Carp had a career year in 2013, but this was largely fueled by a completely unsustainable BABIP.  As a defensively challenged 1B Carp needs to produce offensively, and I'm not sure his 216 BABIP fueled ABs in 2013 really proves he can do this.
 

mauf

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If you carry 12 pitchers and run a strict platoon at a position besides C or SS, you're going to have a glaring hole somewhere on your roster. Once the Sox decided not to sign an everyday LF, they had to choose between living without an adequate Nava/Napoli/Ortiz backup or living without an adequate JBJ/Victorino backup. I think they made the right decision -- they can muddle through a short-term absence equally well either way, and it will be easier to trade for a Darnell McDonald type than a league-average LH bat if a longer-term solution is needed.
 

The Gray Eagle

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What we need to acquire is a CF for Pawtucket who can ride the shuttle who if needed could get on base and play a decent CF for a couple weeks if Bradley had to go on the DL. It doesn't have to be a "prospect," because acquiring someone like that is expensive. Could be a guy who is already in his late 20s, but who can do a couple of things decently: play CF and get on base enough to not wreck the offense by being an easy out.
 
We don't need to dump Mike Carp to create a roster spot for a backup CF when we already have Victorino who can cover for us for a few days if needed. We just need to add someone at AAA who can come up for a couple weeks and not suck. If we have a guy like that, even if Bradley is out, we can leave Victorino in RF, where he is vastly better defensively, and keep a solid OF defense and an offense with no easy outs.
 
We really have no one in the minors who is ready to do that for us. It shouldn't be hard to find someone like that and it shouldn't cost too much to acquire one. But it's probably the one spot where we don't have the famous "deep depth."
 

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The Gray Eagle said:
What we need to acquire is a CF for Pawtucket who can ride the shuttle who if needed could get on base and play a decent CF for a couple weeks if Bradley had to go on the DL. It doesn't have to be a "prospect," because acquiring someone like that is expensive. Could be a guy who is already in his late 20s, but who can do a couple of things decently: play CF and get on base enough to not wreck the offense by being an easy out.
 
We don't need to dump Mike Carp to create a roster spot for a backup CF when we already have Victorino who can cover for us for a few days if needed. We just need to add someone at AAA who can come up for a couple weeks and not suck. If we have a guy like that, even if Bradley is out, we can leave Victorino in RF, where he is vastly better defensively, and keep a solid OF defense and an offense with no easy outs.
 
We really have no one in the minors who is ready to do that for us. It shouldn't be hard to find someone like that and it shouldn't cost too much to acquire one. But it's probably the one spot where we don't have the famous "deep depth."
 
It could very well be that Justin Henry is the player you describe.  Late 20s so a bit old to be a prospect, but he's capable of handling CF defensively, is reported to have decent command of the strike zone, and has options since he's never been on a 40-man roster before.  Ideally they can find someone better than that, but pickings are slim when it comes to cheap players capable of handling CF who have options.
 

KillerBs

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kazuneko said:
Sorry, but this is simply not true. Having to carry two defensively limited players (Carp and Gomes) on the same bench is challenging. It limits roster flexibility and prevents the team from being able to pursue solid back-up/platoon players at other positions of need, in particular 3B and the OF. 
In the OF, currently Victorino - a player with multiple chronic ailments- is the back-up at CF for JBJ,  an unproven rookie.  If JBJ were to struggle and Victorino were to end up on the DL (and neither option is that unlikely) this OF could get very bad in a hurry. Meanwhile, at 3B the team is currently relying on Will Middlebrooks, an unproven 3rd year player who just last season began his campaign with a 3 month stretch of futility that eventually led to his benching.  If a similar scenario emerges who fills in next season? Jonathan Herrera (and his career .645 OPS away from Coors)?
Having to carry Carp on this roster prevented the Sox from pursuing players like Rajai Davis (who could have platooned with JBJ and been a solid glove on the bench) and Eric Chavez (who could have backed up both Napoli and Middlebrooks). Carp is cheap and may someday be valuable as a Papi replacement, but on a team with Nava on the roster and other needs for the bench you could see why you'd have to consider trading him.
Of course you could make the argument that if you wanted to free up a roster space you'd be better off jettisoning Gomes, but there are a couple of issues with this. A.) Gomes is overpaid and unlikely to have much value to other teams. B.) Unlike Carp, he hits right-handed and is therefore useful as a Nava platoon partner. C) Clubhouse chemistry. It would be hard to trade a guy that the media/management has spent months applauding as one of the veteran leaders of a championship team.
With the free agent market all but barren I'm not actually sure if I'd advocate trading Carp now or not. I suppose it depends on what you could get in return. If Carp could land you a Chris Denorfia you'd have to seriously consider it. At least for the 2014 team this would seem a far more effective use of roster space.
Also, it's important to remember that trading Carp now could very well be selling high. Carp had a career year in 2013, but this was largely fueled by a completely unsustainable BABIP.  As a defensively challenged 1B Carp needs to produce offensively, and I'm not sure his 216 BABIP fueled ABs in 2013 really proves he can do this.
 
I agree with all of this. Indeed I think it kind of obvious that the 2014 roster would be better structured by moving one of Carp/Nava for another OF who can play CF/RF. Whoever it is that is not dealt can back up 1b AND play LF vs. many/most of the righties. This alignment also recognizes that Gomes is more then the short side of a LF platoon on this team. In fact, it seems to me, the team just declared definitively that it thinks Gomes is a better LFer vs. RHPers (let alone lefties) than Nava, so it will be interesting to see how the Nava/Gomes "platoon" plays out in light of the play-off decisions made re playing time in LF.
 
I appreciate Nava played alot of RF last year vs LHPers. That does not detract from my thinking that he is essentially replacement level in that capacity. Maybe I am over estimating how bad Nava is defensively in RF (especially at home).
 
On top of it , I think we would be well-served in planning on 130-135 games or so out of both Victorino and JBJ.
 
I also agree that the situation is not so dire that we should be looking at dealing either of these guys for pennies on the dollar.  OTOH, this extreme lack of CF/RF depth (deep or otherwise), while far from an emergency,  has to be near the top of our concerns going into the season. I certainly do not want to be in the trade market for such an OFer mid-season if JBJ or Victorino go south. As to finding a fit with another team, this is extremely difficulty, but I keep thinking that the Pirates have to be near the top of the list, especially given G. Polanco's imminence.     
 

KillerBs

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Justin Maxwell is another guy who would fit and very well could be available by the time opening day rolls around. I doubt  Carp or Nava would interest the Royals, but a 3-way deal which nets them a decent 2b surely would. 
 
I would need to be confident that Maxwell was a better than average defensive CF/RF to even consider dealing Carp or Nava for him. Maybe we would need something extra back from the Royals.
 
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/maxweju01.shtml
 

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KillerBs said:
 
I agree with all of this. Indeed I think it kind of obvious that the 2014 roster would be better structured by moving one of Carp/Nava for another OF who can play CF/RF. Whoever it is that is not dealt can back up 1b AND play LF vs. many/most of the righties. This alignment also recognizes that Gomes is more then the short side of a LF platoon on this team. In fact, it seems to me, the team just declared definitively that it thinks Gomes is a better LFer vs. RHPers (let alone lefties) than Nava, so it will be interesting to see how the Nava/Gomes "platoon" plays out in light of the play-off decisions made re playing time in LF.
 
I appreciate Nava played alot of RF last year vs LHPers. That does not detract from my thinking that he is essentially replacement level in that capacity. Maybe I am over estimating how bad Nava is defensively in RF (especially at home).
 
On top of it , I think we would be well-served in planning on 130-135 games or so out of both Victorino and JBJ.
 
I also agree that the situation is not so dire that we should be looking at dealing either of these guys for pennies on the dollar.  OTOH, this extreme lack of CF/RF depth (deep or otherwise), while far from an emergency,  has to be near the top of our concerns going into the season. I certainly do not want to be in the trade market for such an OFer mid-season if JBJ or Victorino go south. As to finding a fit with another team, this is extremely difficulty, but I keep thinking that the Pirates have to be near the top of the list, especially given G. Polanco's imminence.     
 
I don't think there's anything obvious about this at all. Stand the argument on it's head - lets say the Sox had no Carp but instead had - I dunno - Grady Sizemore or the much-pined-for-and-ballyhood  Rajah Davis (who can't field OR hit) for example. There would be a great hue and cry because there's no adequate replacement for Papi or Napoli on the roster (or the minors for that matter) - one is 38 years old - the other has a degenerative hip condition. Which scenario is more likely to occur - a major injury to Ortiz/Napoli or to Vic/JBJ ?  
 
It seems that prospect aversion may be playing a role here - "JBJ needs to be platooned!" or "JBJ might suck!!" I get that Vic is banged up a lot - but no one is saying they don't need a decent backup they can stash in Pawtucket.. 
 
If Ellsbury had resigned would you still be arguing a backup CF over Carp?  
 
It's really hard to carry 5 OFs with a 12 man pitching staff - particularly when two of them are platooning. And they aren't going down to 11.
 

Plympton91

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The Gray Eagle said:
What we need to acquire is a CF for Pawtucket who can ride the shuttle who if needed could get on base and play a decent CF for a couple weeks if Bradley had to go on the DL. It doesn't have to be a "prospect," because acquiring someone like that is expensive. Could be a guy who is already in his late 20s, but who can do a couple of things decently: play CF and get on base enough to not wreck the offense by being an easy out.
 
I would think that a player like the one you describe would be ensconced as either a back-up on a competitive team or a starter on a second-division team, and would be fairly expensive to acquire via trade.  This is why it would have been a perfect role for Jackie Bradley to fill this season and next...
 
 
kazuneko said:
Also, it's important to remember that trading Carp now could very well be selling high. Carp had a career year in 2013, but this was largely fueled by a completely unsustainable BABIP.  As a defensively challenged 1B Carp needs to produce offensively, and I'm not sure his 216 BABIP fueled ABs in 2013 really proves he can do this.
 
Carp's ~.380 BABIP from last year is almost certain to be unsustainable, but there is little evidence that you should regress him down to league average.  His career BABIP in the majors is .333, and if you exclude the injury-plagued 2012 it rises to about .355.  In the minors, again excluding his injury-plagued 2012 season, he has a ~320 BABip since his age 22 season.  I started there because before that, he was generally playing ahead of the aging curve, 21 in AA, 20 in high-A (though still posting an 830 OPS and .338 BABip there), and 19 in full season A.
 

KillerBs

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BCsMightyJoeYoung said:
 
I don't think there's anything obvious about this at all. Stand the argument on it's head - lets say the Sox had no Carp but instead had - I dunno - Grady Sizemore or the much-pined-for-and-ballyhood  Rajah Davis (who can't field OR hit) for example. There would be a great hue and cry because there's no adequate replacement for Papi or Napoli on the roster (or the minors for that matter) - one is 38 years old - the other has a degenerative hip condition. Which scenario is more likely to occur - a major injury to Ortiz/Napoli or to Vic/JBJ ?  
 
It seems that prospect aversion may be playing a role here - "JBJ needs to be platooned!" or "JBJ might suck!!" I get that Vic is banged up a lot - but no one is saying they don't need a decent backup they can stash in Pawtucket.. 
 
If Ellsbury had resigned would you still be arguing a backup CF over Carp?  
 
It's really hard to carry 5 OFs with a 12 man pitching staff - particularly when two of them are platooning. And they aren't going down to 11.
 
But you do have a replacement for Ortiz/Napoli: the guy you did not just trade for the CF/RF I want.
 
If Carp is moved in a deal for Tabata or Maxwell, let's say, and Napoli gets hurt, your new 1b is Nava, with Gomes, JBJ, Victo and Tabata/Maxwell left to cover the OF adequately. In this case you would even have a roster spot to fill with a rigthy 1b banger (maybe Hassan or a Mauro Gomes type) to spell Nava v lefties.   Or you bring up Cecchini so he can so turn Napoli or Middlebrooks into Carney Lansford circa 1982. Ditto if God forbid Papi goes down.
 
I am not really buying that what we REALLY need is a guy that more or less sucks that we can stash in AAA if there is a serious injury to the CF or RF. Rather I think what we need is a legit big league 4th OFer, who can play CF, so our back up CF is not the starting RF and the back up RF is not the starting CF. This is especially the case when the starting CF is a rookie who (maybe) can't hit v LHPers and the RFer is a banged up vet who (maybe) cant hit RHPers.
 
If Ells had resigned we would not need a back up CF, we would have JBJ for that role. And yes in that scenario, I wanted JBJ on the big league roster, and would have looked to deal Nava or Carp, as highly as I think of both.
 
What is especially hard to do with 12 pitchers and 13 position players is to carry 2 1B/DH, 2 1B/LF and a LF but this appears to be the plan. I get it that we won the WS with this roster construction last year so it does have that going for it, I just think we would be better off trading some of our depth where we have a surplus in exchange for a players who play positions where we do not.
 

mauf

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KillerBs said:
 
But you do have a replacement for Ortiz/Napoli: the guy you did not just trade for the CF/RF I want.
 
If Carp is moved in a deal for Tabata or Maxwell, let's say, and Napoli gets hurt, your new 1b is Nava, with Gomes, JBJ, Victo and Tabata/Maxwell left to cover the OF adequately. In this case you would even have a roster spot to fill with a rigthy 1b banger (maybe Hassan or a Mauro Gomes type) to spell Nava v lefties.   Or you bring up Cecchini so he can so turn Napoli or Middlebrooks into Carney Lansford circa 1982. Ditto if God forbid Papi goes down.
 
 
 
Is this before or after we trade them Ryan Dempster for Andrew McCutchen?
 

KillerBs

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"...moved in a deal", not dealt straight up.
 
But since you asked, I would think we would need to add a player to get Tabata back and get another player back with Maxwell, but what do I know. I mean how good is Carp any way?
 

Savin Hillbilly

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maufman said:
 
Is this before or after we trade them Ryan Dempster for Andrew McCutchen?
 
I think this reaction is overblown, particularly for Maxwell, who is almost three years older than Carp, a fringe-average hitter, and a meh defensive OF*. I don't think a one-up offer of Carp for him would be unreasonable. It might even be selling low on Carp. 
 
*EDIT: Sorry, that's an overstatement. He's been a good defensive OF over most of his career. He had an off year by the numbers last year, which may have been SSS or injury-related. But even if we assume that he's still a good defensive OF, at 30 he probably won't be one too much longer. I would still say he's probably equal value for the younger and better-hitting Carp.
 

Plympton91

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The problem is the Royals don't really need Carp either, with Hosmer, Butler, and Gordon occupying his plausible positions. I suppose if they wanted to move Butlet for salary relief, Carp would step in nicely. But, too late for that this offseason. The Red Sox connection the Royals should be looking at is Drew.
 

xjack

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The only reason to trade him during or before spring training is if the Sox believe that his 2013 stats were a fluke and that his value is at its peak. Otherwise, it does make more sense to hold onto him as 1B/DH insurance or as some sort of mid-season trade chip.
 
Carp's splits do make me wonder whether the Sox should cash out. 1st half: 313/379/652. 2nd half: 279/342/385. Plus, his BABIP for the year was .385 and his K rate (28%) was the highest of his career. 
 

Devizier

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I wonder if the Mariners could be interested in the Red Sox's 1B/LF surplus?
 
They did acquire Hart and Morrison, but keep in mind that Smoak still sucks and neither of their new acquisitions is considered a viable first baseman.
 
The problem with this particular matchup is while the Mariners have a surplus of fourth outfielders -- that's pretty much what they're planning to throw out there this year -- everyone except Gutierrez is essentially left-handed.
 

tonyarmasjr

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I don't understand why Carp would be the one to be moved. Doesn't it make more sense to trade Nava? Then, the problem of finding playing time for Carp is solved - he's alone as the strong side of a LF platoon, as well as the backup first baseman and DH. If his sss from last year is indicative of his true talent level, he can become the starter at any of those positions in the future. What does Nava offer that he doesn't? He's strictly a platoon LFer, with slightly better OF defense, who can play RF or 1B in a pinch. You still need a CF/RF backup. And I don't think anyone really believes he could/should be more than that. Carp can be anything Nava can, plus he has the upside of becoming a future regular at 2 positions currently lacking an heir apparent. He's also 3 years younger.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Carp is not an outfielder.  In no way should he be in a position to be the strong side of a platoon in left field.  Carp as an left fielder should be viewed in the same way as Nava is generally viewed as an option in RF.  He'll suffice here and there, but you don't want him out there on a regular basis.
 
As for Nava, MLB Network's "Top Ten Right Now" show ranked him as the #7 left fielder in baseball going into 2014.  Take it for what it is, but that shows me that he's generally considered to be a good player.  I'm not sure it makes the team better to move him just to give Carp the opportunity to be the primary LF.  I like Carp.  Not sure I like him that much.
 

bosockboy

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Nava provided an 831 OPS over 536 plate appearances. He proved he can handle the strong side of that platoon. He shouldn't go anywhere.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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Two things that I think weaken the case for Nava over Carp:
 
1) Nava is 31 and also just finished a year in which his BABIP was way above his previous career average--not quite as dramatically so as Carp's, but then he wasn't coming off an injury year, either. Both Nava and Carp are likely to be worse at the plate in 2014 than in 2013, but Nava is the better bet to keep right on declining, or at least to do so at a sharper rate than Carp. If you're just thinking 2014, it might be a toss-up offensively, and therefore advantage Nava. But if you're looking over the next 3 to 5 years, that's quite a different story.
 
2) Farrell has already demonstrated an unwillingness to play Gomes as merely the weak side of a platoon; he's going to get some of the starts vs. RHP, and if the playoffs were any hint of what we'll see going forward, possibly a lot of them. The only reason that Nava got 536 plate appearances last year is that Victorino got hurt. Granted, that's a decent bet to happen again, but if Sizemore sticks, he'll most likely get those RF starts, not whoever of Nava and Carp is left (and if Sizemore doesn't stick, it's a moot point because there's no need to choose between them). What Nava and Carp would be fighting for in that scenario is really not even a platoon role, but a substantial backup role--and depending on how things go with Sizemore, it might not even be that substantial, at least in terms of LF.