Mayo: Season 1

Bertha

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I agree with the majority here that Steve B is better served by not following Bill. I’m probably putting too much into that quote from 1-2 years back where BB stated he wants to work with players and coaches he likes. I sense it may be more important Bill that his sons follow him than it is to the sons. Of course, this is based on nothing but guessing at motivations.
 

lexrageorge

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Jul 31, 2007
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I wonder if coordinator positions can also be identified for succession plans and bypass the Rooney Rule? If yes, it would be hard to believe that Steve Belichick wasn't identified for DC at the same time Mayo was identified for HC as part of moving on from Bill under the original plan.
Mayo was able to get the succession clause added to his contract when he got the promotion this past offseason. There was probably no real reason to do it for Steve Belichick, assuming coordinator positions are eligible for such a clause.

Several moving parts here (Bill's landing spot, Steve's decision whether to follow his father, Mayo's and Kraft's decision on who is best qualified to be DC for the Pats), so probably will take a couple of more weeks to sort itself out. I tend to agree that Steve would be better served being DC for a team other than Bill's eventual team.
 

Eddie Jurak

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It's funny how smoothly Bedard has pivoted from bashing BB to bashing Kraft and Mayo.

https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2024/01/20/bedard-comparing-mayos-vision-to-other-player-turned-coaches-belichickworld-grumbling-about-mayo-pats-drama

1. What happened with Bill O'Brien, who departed this week to be Ohio State's offensive coordinator?

On Jan. 7th I reported: "I don't rule it out if staying at home is a priority for O'Brien, but there are rumblings that he hasn't immensely enjoyed his return to One Patriot Place (wouldn't blame him one bit) and would be open to change (with Mike Vrabel somewhere, possibly?)"

On Tuesday's Felger & Mazz, I mentioned how most coaches were on vacation and that O'Brien would likely to listen to the Patriots but the odds were low he would return. That night, a team source told me that O'Brien and the Patriots were facing off a bit, that neither side was really interested in continuing the relationship but the Patriots were open to it depending on O'Brien.

In his press conference, Mayo did not name O'Brien and said this about offensive coordinator: "Everything is still under consideration."

On Wednesday night, another team source confirmed that O'Brien wanted out but the two sides were doing a dance on whether or not the Patriots would be required to pay the final two years of O'Brien's contract. "They don't want to pay but I could see Billy saying, 'You brought me back here and this is your fault - you're paying.' And he'd be totally right."

On Thursday it was announced O'Brien was leaving for OSU.
2. BelichickWorld is not happy with the way things went down, and it will be interesting to see how many stay on staff.

Let's just say the texts were flying from Belichick loyalists after Mayo's press conference. A sampling:

"They didn't even have an answer on who has the final say. That collaboration thing is good to a point but that's only good when you have a boss. Who's the boss? That thing about they may or may not have a GM, like did you have a plan when you fired Bill? Doesn't that require a plan? ...

"I think Jonathan's going to be involved. That power structure knowing what it's probably going to be, I would not hang around to have them experiment with that. Who's in charge? With people who have never been in charge of anything before?" ...

"(Mayo and Robyn Glaser) were doing a lot of calls and information gathering even before the season was over. That was a big problem. 'Why are you asking these questions while Bill's the head coach? Why is this happening? So there were some red flags going up in the office with a bunch of us, where it kind of became very apparent that was already written on the wall to the point where it's like, okay, we're not gonna sit here and just experience this shit." ...

"That's the head coach. Whatever he says, that's what goes. There's no, 'I want to do it this way. I know, he said this, but I'm gonna do this instead.' That's the kind of thing that really rubbed a lot of us the wrong way. I know you think you know how this operates, but (the head coach) says, go, we go. He says, jump, we jump. The head coach says it and everybody else's job is to do what he says. (Mayo) didn't do that. As you kind of kept going further and further into the season, you saw more of the almost assumption of 'I don't have to do what he wants to do' because I'm next anyway."

"I think he's trying to keep the defensive staff but there are a couple who don't want to stay and want Bill to put in a request for them wherever he goes - they're stuck under contracts. ... There's a lot of guys who are tied to Bill, there's a lot of guys who resent the way this went down. ... I think that's kind of, 'Yeah, we're going to try to make it look nice, like with Steve and Brian, but the end of the day want to get everybody who's tied to Bill out.'"
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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No one has come out and said that the coaching staff from last year was let go but it’s starting to look like none have them have been retained and Mayo is starting fresh. Who cares if any of them are upset? Don’t go 4-13. I’m glad he’s viewing this as wide open. I mean, he should, it just seemed like most thought it was just a HC swap. It’s everything from the looks of it. Another point in his favor.
 

MuppetAsteriskTalk

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No one has come out and said that the coaching staff from last year was let go but it’s starting to look like none have them have been retained and Mayo is starting fresh. Who cares if any of them are upset? Don’t go 4-13. I’m glad he’s viewing this as wide open. I mean, he should, it just seemed like most thought it was just a HC swap. It’s everything from the looks of it. Another point in his favor.
I mean, if those quotes accurately reflect what went down, I do. (I know that is a big if, and it's more likely just sour grapes.)
 
Apr 7, 2006
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I don't care what the texts were saying, pretending that an introductory presser is when ALL IS REVEALED is fucking stupid. And the little back-biting texts from BB loyalists is embarrassing. Fresh start. It may blow up in Mayo's face, but it's time to move on, and having whiny underlings whispering behind his back is not, as they say, "what we're looking for." GTFO.

Next?
 

mcpickl

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Jul 23, 2007
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I don't care what the texts were saying, pretending that an introductory presser is when ALL IS REVEALED is fucking stupid. And the little back-biting texts from BB loyalists is embarrassing. Fresh start. It may blow up in Mayo's face, but it's time to move on, and having whiny underlings whispering behind his back is not, as they say, "what we're looking for." GTFO.

Next?
Do we know they are even underlings Bedard is quoting?

I don't pay for BSJ so I'm only reading what's quoted here, but if he's just quoting Belichick "loyalists", that could just mean guys that aren't here like Mike Lombardi(who will gladly talk to anybody and everybody about anything Belichick), Matt Patricia or Bill O'Brien and Berj Najarian on their way out the door.
 
Oct 12, 2023
656
While I appreciate Mayo’s enthusiasm, let’s hope he doesn’t have a “full throttle” situation. He’s not the one signing guys and while I’m sure he will have input on free agents, I’m not sure how wise it is for him to set expectations high for a free agency spending spree
 

Ed Hillel

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Here

tims4wins

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Of course, BB constantly spent up to the cap throughout his time in New England, he just built more for depth than going star-heavy, for better or worse. But, hey, there is that stigma of "Bill didn't pay players" out there, so if this gets some of the new young talent to take a look, let's do it.
I just mean how Mayo speaks. Not that the MO has changed.
 

Ed Hillel

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I just mean how Mayo speaks. Not that the MO has changed.
Yes, quite different. But I think that might matter for the positive in this case. I'm just grumbling about an undeserved and inaccurate label BB got.
 

ZMart100

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The sad part of this is the Pats have drafted so poorly that they haven’t had good players to resign to second contracts. Plus the fact that they didn’t resign Thuney when they had mountains of cap space has led to this shitty offensive line situation.
I would spend a good chunk of change to extend Barmore.
 
Oct 12, 2023
656
The sad part of this is the Pats have drafted so poorly that they haven’t had good players to resign to second contracts. Plus the fact that they didn’t resign Thuney when they had mountains of cap space has led to this shitty offensive line situation.
they had cap space but no TE, no WR, no pass rusher, no LT, very thinnd two interior linemen getting paid above average (Andrews) and near top of market (Mason)

in retrospect, Jonnu Smith was a waste of money and Agoholor gave them about what was expected (#3 production for mid tier #2 price) but Judon and Henry were solid signings and Karras filled in adequately at LG

The logic of distributing money from interior line elsewhere was sound. The mistake in all of that was committing to Mason instead of Thuney. Spending “Thuney’s money” on WR, TE, T, NT and pass rush made sense at the time. Looks awful years later but they’re kind of in that same boat now. They’re going to have to reallocate money from defense (let some combo of Jennings, Uche, Wilson, Dugger go) to pay for tackles, TE, WR. Hopefully they find the right combo of players.

to be clear, they should have paid Thuney. But the amount of cap space in March 2021 is a bit deceptive given the number of major holes the team had that off-season and the amount of money they had tied up in interior line. And to be fair, the drop off from Thuney to Karras was not as significant as the increase in production Judon offered or the difference between Trent Brown and an alternative replacement. There’s not a lot of teams who can afford 3 highly paid interior linemen when they have giant holes elsewhere.
 

soxhop411

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Johnny Foxboro is now Johnny Brockton
the article for reference
“But, you know these guys can play football,” Mayo added. “They’re here for a reason. It’s not like we went over to Brockton High and just pulled some people over here. These guys are players and at the end of the day, there has to be a shared vision. The players have to feel like they’re being heard. They have to feel like they have some stake in the gameplan so if things go wrong the accountability piece starts to show up.”
https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2024/01/22/jerod-mayo-locker-room-split-mac-jones-bailey-zappe/
 

NomarsFool

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Question, if everyone has the same salary cap, where does the difference in spending come in?
 

lexrageorge

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The oft-cited stat on cash spending is misleading when presented without context. Some teams are willing to endure 1 or 2 "cap reset" seasons every 4 years or so, where they have to cut a number of players or let some promising players walk because they are going to be $40M+ over the cap otherwise. The Pats only had to do that once, in 2020, as a result of going all in in 2018 and 2019 (the latter being the parting gift of one Antonio Brown).

Their 2021 free agent spree was spread among a number of players, and because it did cap them out in 2022 and 2023, the cash spending was by necessity limited in those years. Also "helped" that the team had cheap QB's since 2020.
 

Cellar-Door

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So 3 OC candidates interviewed (or going to be), and at least 1 more to come (Rooney rule).
DC interviews seem like maybe they are done? Wonder if they are waiting on that one to see what Steve does?
 

NomarsFool

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The oft-cited stat on cash spending is misleading when presented without context. Some teams are willing to endure 1 or 2 "cap reset" seasons every 4 years or so, where they have to cut a number of players or let some promising players walk because they are going to be $40M+ over the cap otherwise. The Pats only had to do that once, in 2020, as a result of going all in in 2018 and 2019 (the latter being the parting gift of one Antonio Brown).

Their 2021 free agent spree was spread among a number of players, and because it did cap them out in 2022 and 2023, the cash spending was by necessity limited in those years. Also "helped" that the team had cheap QB's since 2020.
If you let players go, are you able to then spend above the cap? So, for example, let's say you have $200 million in salary obligations for the 2024 season (just for the sake of argument, it's all guaranteed/bonus money so there is a cost for cutting those players). If you cut every player, are you able to go out and spend another $200 million on new players?
 

lexrageorge

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If you let players go, are you able to then spend above the cap? So, for example, let's say you have $200 million in salary obligations for the 2024 season (just for the sake of argument, it's all guaranteed/bonus money so there is a cost for cutting those players). If you cut every player, are you able to go out and spend another $200 million on new players?
No, as cutting players usually causes bonus armortization to accelerate.
 
Oct 12, 2023
656
The “real cash spending” is a fairly useless but often repeated idea

for 2024 the teams with the lowest “Real cash spend” - Bucs, Vikings, Washington, Titans, Lions, Texans

highest spend - Browns, eagles, Dolphins, chargers, saints, broncos, 49ers

both groups have playoff teams and awful teams. Great rosters and bad rosters

Judging a team’s spending habits or decisions based on real cash vs cap is like looking at someone’s credit card balance and determining whether or not they’re spending wisely or not

seems to me that unless you have a young proven franchise QB on a rookie contract, borrowing huge money from future years seems like a terrible way to run a team’s budget. One or two targeted acquisitions as “final pieces”? Sure but the Saints run their cap like someone living paycheck to paycheck and putting all their utility bills on their credit card, hoping every year they get a credit line increase to offset the fact the interest keeps increasing their balance due.
 
Oct 12, 2023
656
So, do the Patriots spend less money on players than other teams (in a meaningful way)?
imagine you have two people each with 100K in credit card debt, and one person with 50k in debt. Which of the 3 spent their money in the most meaningful way? No way to know.

the most meaningful way to spend money IMO is to maximize your ability to keep a deep, competitive roster.

Borrowing money can be good in the NFL as it can be in real life (a mortgage is often a great investment and worth the huge future debt, akin to locking up a young franchise QB to a massive contract). Sometimes it’s necessary because you don’t want to tighten your belt (letting quality starters go in a championship window). Sometimes it’s just a bad idea (locking up risky or depreciating assets like a QB with off-field issues, overpriced good-not great WR, a guy on the wrong side of 30).

The point is to win super bowls and there’s never really been a correlation between “real cash spend” and overall success.
 

GB5

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The senior offensive assistant is suggested as a former head coach, can we start the rumor mill and see who fits that criteria:

kingsbury
Arthur Smith
Mcdaniels..
 

ehaz

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Jay Gruden was an offensive consultant with the Rams in 2022 so he would have that overlap with Zac Robinson.

Maybe Greg Olson (SEA QBs coach who is in limbo). No HC experience, but a half dozen stints as an OC. Also overlapped with Zac Robinson in LA.

Nick Caley overlapped with at least one available ex-HC with offensive experience... Matt Patricia.
 

Jungleland

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I really like this round of rumors - the idea of Steve as AC, Covington DC, Robinson as OC, and any of the above names as senior offensive consultant feels like the right way to start the Mayo era off with a good mix of new blood without blowing up the stuff that's been working well.

As far as some of those names, I don't see why Smith would take that job. Gruden is intriguing for sure, or that'd be a really appealing way to bring back McDaniels, who I think might be a serious asset in that kind of role and might actually not have better options.
 

StupendousMan

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Onwenu
Barmore
Dugger
I'd agree with the first two. Dugger has some unusual skills, and can impact a game, but I saw him appear to jog and give less than full effort on a number of plays during the last few weeks of this season. I'm somewhat on the fence about him ...
 

MuppetAsteriskTalk

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I really like this round of rumors - the idea of Steve as AC, Covington DC, Robinson as OC, and any of the above names as senior offensive consultant feels like the right way to start the Mayo era off with a good mix of new blood without blowing up the stuff that's been working well.

As far as some of those names, I don't see why Smith would take that job. Gruden is intriguing for sure, or that'd be a really appealing way to bring back McDaniels, who I think might be a serious asset in that kind of role and might actually not have better options.
Where did you see Steve as AC? I poked back into the linked tweets and don't see that.
 

BusRaker

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I'd agree with the first two. Dugger has some unusual skills, and can impact a game, but I saw him appear to jog and give less than full effort on a number of plays during the last few weeks of this season. I'm somewhat on the fence about him ...
For what they make I would love to tack on some time to both Dugger and Pepper's contracts. Can't see Phillips playing too much longer and that group has been solid.
 

steveluck7

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