Matt Barnes DFA'd, traded to Marlins for LH reliever Bleier

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
21,211
Oof. Well then... essentially they traded Barnes and German for Bleier, which I do not like. I'd rather they just have released Barnes and been done with it.
 

nvalvo

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
20,732
Rogers Park
Oof. Well then... essentially they traded Barnes and German for Bleier, which I do not like. I'd rather they just have released Barnes and been done with it.
Well, Barnes and German for Bleier... and a few million in CBT breathing room.

And maybe let's learn the lesson we should have learned literally today that German could well be part of a trade. We don't always have to leap evidence-free to the conclusion that Bloom is incompetent just because we don't immediately understand what he's up to.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
21,211
Yes if German is about to be traded for more help, then fine (depending on what they get back).

But if they trade German for some other major leaguer, they'll just have to DFA someone else to make room for THAT new guy.
 

Ale Xander

doesn't like to back it in
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
61,855
This is probably my 2nd favorite move this offseason (and depending how you define "move," it may be the favorite. ) I feel like we're getting Reverse Diekman.

Mazel Tov, Chaim.

Still curious about Ortial inertia though.
 

Ale Xander

doesn't like to back it in
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
61,855
Yes if German is about to be traded for more help, then fine (depending on what they get back).

But if they trade German for some other major leaguer, they'll just have to DFA someone else to make room for THAT new guy.
The offseason is over when German leaves, correct?
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
21,211
Well, Barnes and German for Bleier... and a few million in CBT breathing room.

And maybe let's learn the lesson we should have learned literally today that German could well be part of a trade. We don't always have to leap evidence-free to the conclusion that Bloom is incompetent just because we don't immediately understand what he's up to.
I'm just about the last person here who would claim that Bloom is incompetent.
 

AlNipper49

Huge Member
Dope
Apr 3, 2001
43,726
Mtigawi
There's got to be something going on with him because if they're just letting him go, and he has the perceived upgrade of people being upset he's off the 40, then in theory Miami would have taken him as a throw-in.
 

moondog80

heart is two sizes two small
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
7,039
I assume DFAing a guy is a necessary part of the process to stimulate trade talks instead of waiting a week to make the deal official while you look for a trade partner for German?
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,972
There's got to be something going on with him because if they're just letting him go, and he has the perceived upgrade of people being upset he's off the 40, then in theory Miami would have taken him as a throw-in.
Yeah, it's telling that the Marlins had no interest in a cost controlled young player.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
18,729
Maine
Yeah, it's telling that the Marlins had no interest in a cost controlled young player.
Telling of what? The Marlins are at 40 on their roster. Could be they value what they have more than Franklin German.

I'll be curious to see whether German can clear waivers and be outrighted back to Worcester. Assuming he isn't traded, of course.
 

Devizier

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 3, 2000
17,804
Somewhere
The pitcher with the biggest difference between FIP and ERA was Jim Palmer.
The oft-repeated outlier is knuckleballers, since they tend to induce weak contact. One of the things that had been lost from Fangraphs in recent years is approachable writing on these kinds of subjects. But here’s a great article by Dave Cameron in 2012 on the issue.
 

Sprowl

mikey lowell of the sandbox
Dope
Jun 27, 2006
34,180
Haiku
Thread title updated.

Bloom is constructing a no-true-oucome bullpen that leaves everything in the hands of BABIP. I hope he has made the necessary sacrifices.
 

JM3

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 14, 2019
3,429
If you keep trading 1 guy each week, eventually the time they can put Story on IL will arrive.

I wonder if they think German walks too many people & that they can sell high on him (2.58 ERA, 4.11 xFIP in AAA last year).

In a vacuum, a guy like that with options would seem like someone they would be interested in keeping around, but we shall see what shoe drops next.
 

HangingW/ScottCooper

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 10, 2006
2,266
Scituate, MA
If you keep trading 1 guy each week, eventually the time they can put Story on IL will arrive.

I wonder if they think German walks too many people & that they can sell high on him (2.58 ERA, 4.11 xFIP in AAA last year).

In a vacuum, a guy like that with options would seem like someone they would be interested in keeping around, but we shall see what shoe drops next.
What is the lead time for these types of things? Once a player is DFA'd how long do they have to deal the player?
 

JM3

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 14, 2019
3,429
What is the lead time for these types of things? Once a player is DFA'd how long do they have to deal the player?
7 days

Designated for assignment (DFA) is a contractual term used in Major League Baseball (MLB).[2] A player who is designated for assignment is immediately removed from the team's 40-man roster, after which the team must within seven days,[a] return the player to the 40-man roster, place the player on waivers, trade the player, release the player, or outright the player from the 40-man roster into Minor League Baseball.[3]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designated_for_assignment
 

chawson

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
3,677
More on Bleier... he's actually a guy who is pretty good against lefties (Joely has neutral splits).

Last year Bleier had a 3.23 xFIP against lefties, 4.23 against righties. He's also not someone who benefitted from shifting - 4.71 xFIP with no shift, 4.92 xFIP with a shift.

He only pitched 5 innings of high leverage baseball all season for the Marlins last year (10 medium, 35.2 low) though, so he's not exactly someone who is being entrusted in big spots. & unless he lowers his BABIP back down, is probably a JAG.

Good cost savings, though, & team option with low buyout is always nice.
Thanks for posting this. I do wonder if one of the downstream effects of the shift ban is that LOOGYs will become useful again. The three-batter minimum did a number on them, but advanced defensive positioning is probably the reason why LHBs have decreased league wide.

2013 - 44.7% of total PAs by non-pitchers
2014 - 44.7%
2015 - 43.2%
2016 - 41.8%
2017 - 41.5%
2018 - 41.5%
2019 - 41.4%
2020 - 42.7%
2021 - 40.6%
2022 - 39.5%

Obviously that won't shift back overnight, but we might see the declining trend of LHBs reverse itself in 2023.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
50,951
I'm surprised how optimistic everyone is about this, though. He could absolutely fail & be DFA'd, but it seems like a reasonable shot to take.
I don't think people are optimistic in the sense that they think we traded for Eck in his prime. I think they're optimistic that we got someone that could be an asset for Barnes.
 

JM3

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 14, 2019
3,429
Thanks for posting this. I do wonder if one of the downstream effects of the shift ban is that LOOGYs will become useful again. The three-batter minimum did a number on them, but advanced defensive positioning is probably the reason why LHBs have decreased league wide.

2013 - 44.7% of total PAs by non-pitchers
2014 - 44.7%
2015 - 43.2%
2016 - 41.8%
2017 - 41.5%
2018 - 41.5%
2019 - 41.4%
2020 - 42.7%
2021 - 40.6%
2022 - 39.5%

Obviously that won't shift back overnight, but we might see the declining trend of LHBs reverse itself in 2023.
This was my theory from when I 1st heard the rules... more lefties will be necessary.

I realized downthread, though, that xFIP for calculating whether the shift is helpful or not was a foolish metric to use as it is independent of fielding, which takes away the variable you're trying to account for with the shift.

His BABIPs have been higher with no shift both in his career & last year.

I don't think people are optimistic in the sense that they think we traded for Eck in his prime. I think they're optimistic that we got someone that could be an asset for Barnes.
Yeah... just have grown accustomed to the abject pessimism that was prevalent for a long time this off season.
 

SouthernBoSox

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 23, 2005
11,349
This was my theory from when I 1st heard the rules... more lefties will be necessary.

I realized downthread, though, that xFIP for calculating whether the shift is helpful or not was a foolish metric to use as it is independent of fielding, which takes away the variable you're trying to account for with the shift.

His BABIPs have been higher with no shift both in his career & last year.



Yeah... just have grown accustomed to the abject pessimism that was prevalent for a long time this off season.
Aren’t left handed hitters disproportionately shifted against? And given his ability against lefties you’d expect a lower BABIP against lefties vs. righties.

It’s going to take a while to sort through the affects of the shift ban. Years. I’m sure every team looks at it slightly differently.
 

E5 Yaz

Transcends message boarding
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
83,930
Oregon
Yeah... just have grown accustomed to the abject pessimism that was prevalent for a long time this off season.
It's still there; it's just in hibernation until Opening Day
 

Jed Zeppelin

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2008
49,132
If you keep trading 1 guy each week, eventually the time they can put Story on IL will arrive.

I wonder if they think German walks too many people & that they can sell high on him (2.58 ERA, 4.11 xFIP in AAA last year).

In a vacuum, a guy like that with options would seem like someone they would be interested in keeping around, but we shall see what shoe drops next.
I have always assumed that Bloom wants a bullpen with a few core guys and then a bunch of cheap guys you can churn through in the hope that one or more pops into being the next Schreiber.

I also assumed German would be one such guy given the mix of stuff + options.

I hope there is a trade on the horizon or they just really don’t like German because he seems to me like the type who could suddenly blossom into a plus reliever for peanuts.
 

TheYellowDart5

Hustle and bustle
SoSH Member
Apr 16, 2003
9,087
NYC
German throws hard but he's got fringe control and average or worse grades on all his pitches, he's basically younger Ryan Brasier. I'd rather they keep the younger Brasier with (theoretical) upside over the actual Brasier (or Ort for that matter, I don't get how he's survived this long either) but there are lots and lots and lots of Franklin Germans in baseball right now. Hard to be upset if that's the acquisition cost for dumping what was left owed to Barnes and adding a useful lefty in Bleier.

ETA: There is also the weirdness of dumping a young guy who you can try to coach up instead of a veteran with no upside left but that speaks more to this team/PD group being generally bad at improving pitchers and maybe feeling that German doesn't have a much higher ceiling than currently.
 

JM3

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 14, 2019
3,429
Aren’t left handed hitters disproportionately shifted against? And given his ability against lefties you’d expect a lower BABIP against lefties vs. righties.

It’s going to take a while to sort through the affects of the shift ban. Years. I’m sure every team looks at it slightly differently.
Last year, lefties had a .297 BABIP against Bleier & righties had a .373. In his career it's .258/.352.

But yeah, who knows? More lefties hitting will make lefty pitchers more valuable, but the shift rules will almost certainly make groundball pitchers less valuable.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 13, 2021
8,525
German was also by some accounts, a top 25 prospect on the Sox, and the best pitching prospect in the system acquired by Bloom. Guess we will see what he returns, but he was seen by many as the prize in taking on Ottavino’s deal. Kind of a bummer to lose him now but I think that’s the unfortunate reality of these depth guys, there’s only so may you can keep on the 40 and they usually don’t have a ton of trade value.
 

Jed Zeppelin

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2008
49,132
German throws hard but he's got fringe control and average or worse grades on all his pitches, he's basically younger Ryan Brasier. I'd rather they keep the younger Brasier with (theoretical) upside over the actual Brasier (or Ort for that matter, I don't get how he's survived this long either) but there are lots and lots and lots of Franklin Germans in baseball right now. Hard to be upset if that's the acquisition cost for dumping what was left owed to Barnes and adding a useful lefty in Bleier.

ETA: There is also the weirdness of dumping a young guy who you can try to coach up instead of a veteran with no upside left but that speaks more to this team/PD group being generally bad at improving pitchers and maybe feeling that German doesn't have a much higher ceiling than currently.
Yeah this makes sense. My feelings are more about the idea of German and some other teams who seem to coach up new stud relievers every season than it is about the pitcher himself.

I think my gut reaction is also shaded by previous negative thoughts about the offseason that have mostly turned neutral-positive (but the negativity lingers). If I once thought it would be a dreadful season, hanging onto a lotto ticket like German would make more sense. As we trend toward maybe competence, there’s a premium on guys who can get outs now. Still…Ort.
 

TheYellowDart5

Hustle and bustle
SoSH Member
Apr 16, 2003
9,087
NYC
German was also by some accounts, a top 25 prospect on the Sox, and the best pitching prospect in the system acquired by Bloom. Guess we will see what he returns, but he was seen by many as the prize in taking on Ottavino’s deal. Kind of a bummer to lose him now but I think that’s the unfortunate reality of these depth guys, there’s only so may you can keep on the 40 and they usually don’t have a ton of trade value.
Man does that say a lot about the Sox farm system and Bloom and not in a good way. That said Ottavino was good for the '21 team so regardless of what becomes of German, I think that was overall a good deal for Bloom.
 

nvalvo

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
20,732
Rogers Park
FWIW, Bloom acquired Perales, and he's a much better prospect than Frank German. Elmer Rodriguez-Cruz is also above German on SoxProspects, and one could make a case for Jedixson Paez, too. Now someone's going to say that those guys are all too far away, and well, yeah: that's basically a corollary of restricting your scope to three years of drafts and not drafting many (any?) college pitchers.
 
Aug 3, 2014
54
My guess is they are trying to get him through the waiver wire and retain him. with all the waiver action going on right now, it might work.