That's incredible. A huge statement of culpability in the courts. I still can't believe it's take this long to get here. I was a teenager when this happened and I'm middle aged now.
Liverpool 2014-15: Now Is Time On Merseyside When We Dance
- Thread starter DLew On Roids
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Liverpool FC @LFC · 12s12 seconds ago
Confirmed #LFC team v @ManUtd: Mignolet, Can, Skrtel, Sakho, Henderson, Allen, Moreno, Sterling, Lallana, Coutinho, Sturridge
Confirmed #LFC team v @ManUtd: Mignolet, Can, Skrtel, Sakho, Henderson, Allen, Moreno, Sterling, Lallana, Coutinho, Sturridge
Well, Gerrard's going to miss the next 3 games, and Skrtel could be facing some discipline for the late stomp on De Gea. Away to Arsenal in 2 weeks, this could get ugly.
Very frustrating result today, but one that the team needed. The recent run of victories has been masking the team's problems. I don't see the play today as horribly different from the past month or so.
Coutinho and Henderson have hit some brilliant strikes of late, but a team can't rely on goals like that to reliably win games. The team isn't consistently creating enough quality chances in the box, nor do they seem to have sufficient lethality to convert.
This is either due or coincident to a horrific run of form for Lallana and Sterling. Lallana is totally out of sorts. His touch, positioning, and awareness have completely left him. His miss today was utterly inexcusable. I'd be very curious if teams are treating Sterling differently now- I need to go back and look. Defenders are dropping off and allowing him to run at them. He's always relied on a long dribble. Oppoents are allowing him to knock the ball forward and it's easily nipped.
One of the repeating problems for this team has been much of the key talent naturally plays similar roles on the pitch. Lallana and Sterling both really need to be in the center to be effective. Playing an out of form Lallana and pushing Sterling outside is doing neither player any service. At least give Sterling a shot playing behind Sturridge.
Speaking of Sturridge... In the game thread I mentioned that I truly feel if he had 45 on his back he wouldn't be getting the pass he is now. A center forward's shot selection is never going to be perfect- they firmly believe they're the best man for the job. His has been poor of late, however. It's possible he feels like he's never going to get support and that he must do it all himself. He's not wrong with the starting lineups that have been trotted out.
Another potential solution would be to move to a two man attack, drop Lallana, and pinch Coutinho and Sterling in. Lambert, who I despise, may do well with some hold up play that allows Sterling or Coutinho to run by into more dangerous areas. If Sturridge finds himself wide on the goal line, he may be more apt to knock the ball in than to dribble himself to death. I truly think that, with time, Balotelli could fill that role admirably, but I don't think he's ever going to get a fair shake and consistent time to gel with this squad.
I sincerely hope that Skrtel isn't going to face discipline. Certainly if Costa's stamp on him earlier didn't draw anything, Skrtel's case for innocence here is even clearer. Ultra slow motion replays make it look like anybody can change direction, but he's a big dude going all-out in a position that isn't familiar to him. I have a hard time thinking that was intentional.
Finally. I'm ready to get Gerrard on the first thing smoking to LA. Totally inexcusable today. There's still a sentimental urge to get him into the lineup and it needs to stop. If he isn't available, there isn't an urge.
Coutinho and Henderson have hit some brilliant strikes of late, but a team can't rely on goals like that to reliably win games. The team isn't consistently creating enough quality chances in the box, nor do they seem to have sufficient lethality to convert.
This is either due or coincident to a horrific run of form for Lallana and Sterling. Lallana is totally out of sorts. His touch, positioning, and awareness have completely left him. His miss today was utterly inexcusable. I'd be very curious if teams are treating Sterling differently now- I need to go back and look. Defenders are dropping off and allowing him to run at them. He's always relied on a long dribble. Oppoents are allowing him to knock the ball forward and it's easily nipped.
One of the repeating problems for this team has been much of the key talent naturally plays similar roles on the pitch. Lallana and Sterling both really need to be in the center to be effective. Playing an out of form Lallana and pushing Sterling outside is doing neither player any service. At least give Sterling a shot playing behind Sturridge.
Speaking of Sturridge... In the game thread I mentioned that I truly feel if he had 45 on his back he wouldn't be getting the pass he is now. A center forward's shot selection is never going to be perfect- they firmly believe they're the best man for the job. His has been poor of late, however. It's possible he feels like he's never going to get support and that he must do it all himself. He's not wrong with the starting lineups that have been trotted out.
Another potential solution would be to move to a two man attack, drop Lallana, and pinch Coutinho and Sterling in. Lambert, who I despise, may do well with some hold up play that allows Sterling or Coutinho to run by into more dangerous areas. If Sturridge finds himself wide on the goal line, he may be more apt to knock the ball in than to dribble himself to death. I truly think that, with time, Balotelli could fill that role admirably, but I don't think he's ever going to get a fair shake and consistent time to gel with this squad.
I sincerely hope that Skrtel isn't going to face discipline. Certainly if Costa's stamp on him earlier didn't draw anything, Skrtel's case for innocence here is even clearer. Ultra slow motion replays make it look like anybody can change direction, but he's a big dude going all-out in a position that isn't familiar to him. I have a hard time thinking that was intentional.
Finally. I'm ready to get Gerrard on the first thing smoking to LA. Totally inexcusable today. There's still a sentimental urge to get him into the lineup and it needs to stop. If he isn't available, there isn't an urge.
I wouldn't be surprised if Lallana was concussed when he took that shot.
In a way, Rodgers has the same problem LVG. I don't think you can fit Sturridge, Sterling, Lallana, Coutinho, and Henderson all in the same side.
In a way, Rodgers has the same problem LVG. I don't think you can fit Sturridge, Sterling, Lallana, Coutinho, and Henderson all in the same side.
SoxFanInCali said:
I'd be very surprised if Atkinson's report said he didn't see Skrtel and De Gea come together. If he doesn't say he didn't see anything, the FA won't impose retroactive discipline.
Of course, Atkinson appears to have gotten the memo that Howard Webb will be making referee assignments going forward, so anything's possible.
How costly was Gerrard's red card against United? It all but solidified a de facto six point gap (five points + goal differential) between them and finishing top 4.
Champions League prize money is a bit complicated, but the 2012/3 distribution showed approximately 30M going to each of the English clubs. it's a bit harder to find information on the EUFA cup, but in 2008/9, City made approximately 5M. As TV revenues have grown since then, I'm not quite sure how the ratios have changed, but 25M strikes me as a reasonable estimate of value.
Given the likelihood of Liverpool finishing within six points of United at the end of the season, the act of stepping on Ander Herrera might cost Gerrard's lifelong club 25M euros.
Champions League prize money is a bit complicated, but the 2012/3 distribution showed approximately 30M going to each of the English clubs. it's a bit harder to find information on the EUFA cup, but in 2008/9, City made approximately 5M. As TV revenues have grown since then, I'm not quite sure how the ratios have changed, but 25M strikes me as a reasonable estimate of value.
Given the likelihood of Liverpool finishing within six points of United at the end of the season, the act of stepping on Ander Herrera might cost Gerrard's lifelong club 25M euros.
blueguitar322 said:
Got any data about what that butterfly that flapped its wings did to the title race? Liverpool not getting CL $ has little or nothing to do with Gerrard and much more to do with the first few months of the season while all the new acquisitions figured out how to play together coherently.
And the hits keep on coming: [url="http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/mar/23/liverpool-adam-lallana-england-lithuania-italy]Adam Lallana has a groin injury.[/url] This game was a three-foot shit sandwich.
That puts Sterling back in the middle where he can actually do something, though. I think I'd rather have Manquillo on the right and Sterling in the Lallana role than Sterling on the right with Lallana.
A 6-point swing in the race for CL $ is absolutely not "little or nothing", and that's my point. Regardless of what Liverpool did or struggled to do up until yesterday, they were still many people's favorite to beat out United for that spot until yesterday's debacle.soxfan121 said:
Agree completely. It seems like the only way to get a desperate needed change is through an injury. The bug bit the perfect player this time.DLew On Roids said:
blueguitar322 said:
Far too much emphasis on late season moments, far too little on all the other games that also counted for three points. It is literally the least attractive aspect of soccer fandom - that people who totally understand what a sample size is in other sports chuck it out the window and prattle about 6-point swings in March.
I mean, if ManU loses next game and Liverpool wins, that's a 6-point swing, too, right? If that takes place, will you be here seizing the data point to talk about how little the Gerrard thing mattered...or are ya just taking some shots at the Liverpool faithful and their beloved stumbler?
I'm gonna say that games Liverpool lost in September and October had just as much to do with their dwindling CL hopes as yesterday's "debacle" did. Because they did.
You seem to be making the assumption that Liverpool would have won the game yesterday if Gerrard wasn't sent off. Since they were already behind at the time, that's quite an assumption.blueguitar322 said:
And of course the ref says he didn't see it, so he's been charged with violent conduct.DLew On Roids said:
Lovren, Sakho, and Can in the back for a few games? Scary.
soxfan121 said:
Here's my initial statement: "Given the likelihood of Liverpool finishing within six points of United at the end of the season, the act of stepping on Ander Herrera might cost Gerrard's lifelong club 25M euros."
You're creating a straw man. There's absolutely no mathematical difference between 3 points gained or lost whether that happens in August or May, and I never implied that there is. The calendar timing of Gerrard's boneheaded decision has nothing to do with it.
soxfan121 said:
In terms of results and points gained or loss, absolutely. But there is a huge difference between losing points to injuries, honest brain farts, or just straight up being outclassed on the pitch, vs what happened on Sunday, where a highly respected veteran in the middle of his swan song loses his cool and costs his team a player and a substitution right after halftime. And there is a difference when that action dramatically increases both the probability that his team will lose, and that their rival for a CL spot will win, at the same time.
soxfan121 said:
"Taking shots" is absolutely not my intention. I was pulling as hard for Liverpool yesterday as I ever do for any non-Arsenal team. I despise United (in no small part due to generally favorable refereeing that they used to receive under Fergie - see Webb, Howard) and would give just about anything to see their overrated team of mercenaries miss out on the CL for a second year in a row. Even beyond that, I find myself rooting for Liverpool over any other non-Arsenal big team, as I respect the tradition and their fans and in general would like to see John Henry succeed.
I made my original post because (1) it's amazing to me just how high the financial stakes are in these games, (2) it completely surprised me to see Gerrard lash out like that, and (3) I found the intersection of those two aspects interesting and noteworthy. The only reason I was still thinking about the situation this morning is because I was still bummed out by the loss and couldn't get it out of my head.
Still scary, plus it's been a while since Kolo went 90 for Liverpool. He's been more of a late sub to protect a lead.SocrManiac said:
I for one don't see the problem with assuming that Liverpool would outscore Man U by 2 goals over 45 minutes.
I had figured that Skrtel's action was in retaliation for Rooney stepping on Mignolet earlier in the half. Nothing came of that?
theapportioner said:
Nope. Shocking that one of Howard Webb's employee's would miss that, huh?
One of the Baby Jordans has gone to Bolton on loan. Not Rossiter or Williams.
Skrtel's instagram picture is brilliant.....who knew the man who looks like he engages in genocide for recreation has a sense of humor
Sturridge out for a month? http://www.thisisanfield.com/2015/03/daniel-sturridge-expected-to-be-out-for-a-month/
This is not a striker to build upon. He.s made of wet tissue paper.
We'll get to see a couple of starts with Sterling as a lone attacker that has a poor finishing instinct. Swell.
This is not a striker to build upon. He.s made of wet tissue paper.
We'll get to see a couple of starts with Sterling as a lone attacker that has a poor finishing instinct. Swell.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32166152
Above link has BBC's interview with Sterling and Rogers saying that he's no goan anywhere at the end of thon season. He's turned down a 100K a week contract, and talk shave been put on the shelf until season's end so Sterling can focus on the fitba.
Rogers pragmatic as ever.
Above link has BBC's interview with Sterling and Rogers saying that he's no goan anywhere at the end of thon season. He's turned down a 100K a week contract, and talk shave been put on the shelf until season's end so Sterling can focus on the fitba.
Rogers pragmatic as ever.
I wonder what him and his agent are looking for. For as much as I like Sterling, he's not a player that should be getting the big pay day yet. He lacks a finishing touch at this stage. I have no doubt he'll get there eventually. I'm sure one of the rich European clubs would offer the money, but he'd sit on the bench.
I think you guys are nuts. He's not a Walcott to me, he's got a lot more than just speed/quickness. You've got a glut of English talent right now, but a homegrown player who can actually beat a man is pretty rare in England right now. Maybe it's a bit premature to pay him, but I'd do it anyway if I were Liverpool.
I probably agree. And I do wonder just how much wage inflation will strike over the next 3-4 years as the new TV revenues roll in. What might be a bit premature today could end up being strong value in 4 years time. Then again, world football contracts are weird, and frequently renegotiated just to placate players and ward off interest from other teams.
I personally think that Rodgers should sit him out of tomorrow's game because of this interview talking about his contract. But that's just me. 
I agree with Teddy. I feel like English culture puts an inordinate amount of emphasis on the physical aspect of the game, but Sterling has the technique to match. He can take guys on and he's not afraid to do it. I think that he's due for a big pay day.
I agree with Teddy. I feel like English culture puts an inordinate amount of emphasis on the physical aspect of the game, but Sterling has the technique to match. He can take guys on and he's not afraid to do it. I think that he's due for a big pay day.
How much do we, if we were the money guys offer him? If he's turned down 100K per week, what's he looking for? What's he worth right now and what could his potential be? Can he be a franchise player? Like a Rooney or a Giggs? If Sterling could add more goals to his game and keep growing his football brain, he could be a great player for Liverpool.
I remember watching a young Giggs play for Man U v Everton. Giggs gave the ball away a couple of times and his corners and crosses weren't the best. And the Everton fan said "He wouldn't get a game for Everton" - Giggs was 20 or so, still young, incomplete but he had all the promise and Ferguson clearly knew what to do to bring him on. Whatever they paid Giggs for his time at Man U it wasn't enough.
If Rogers thinks he can bring Sterling on and that Sterling has the potential to be world class, then you have to pay Sterling and take the gamble. An extra 50K per week is not much more than £2.6M, which is peanuts. Millions get spunked every year on signings that don't work out. If Chelsea come in with a £45M offer for him during the close season do you sell him and spend the money on replacements. Liverpool already need a forward.
I remember watching a young Giggs play for Man U v Everton. Giggs gave the ball away a couple of times and his corners and crosses weren't the best. And the Everton fan said "He wouldn't get a game for Everton" - Giggs was 20 or so, still young, incomplete but he had all the promise and Ferguson clearly knew what to do to bring him on. Whatever they paid Giggs for his time at Man U it wasn't enough.
If Rogers thinks he can bring Sterling on and that Sterling has the potential to be world class, then you have to pay Sterling and take the gamble. An extra 50K per week is not much more than £2.6M, which is peanuts. Millions get spunked every year on signings that don't work out. If Chelsea come in with a £45M offer for him during the close season do you sell him and spend the money on replacements. Liverpool already need a forward.
Right now most of the fan reaction is more about how Sterling is full of shit than about the money. He's pulling an ARod here, saying it's not about the money, blah blah, when it's obviously all about the money. He's being totally disingenuous. His last negotiation was fraught, too, with his agents asking for 50K before settling for 35K.
He's entitled to ask for whatever he wants, and if 150K is what the market will bear and they want to force a move, well, it's been done literally thousands of times be now. Just don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.
He's entitled to ask for whatever he wants, and if 150K is what the market will bear and they want to force a move, well, it's been done literally thousands of times be now. Just don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.
I ask out of ignorance: isn't the wage structure about to change anyways due to the TV money?
I don't know what Liverpool's wage structure is. But more money coming in from TV always means more money going out to the players.
Vinho Tinto said:
I believe most clubs with a defined wage structure tend to base it on seniority, or in relation to the top earner or something like that. Blowing that up for a player can be risky since you tend to get everybody else coming in to renegotiate their contracts too.
Plus Liverpool have to fund their stadium development (and let's talk about how that can hamstring a club financially!) and look to replace a lot of guys in their squad over the summer and renegotiate other contracts (Henderson and Skrtel stand out especially).
They will be unveiling next season's home kit tomorrow. First chance to see if New Balance does anything different than Warrior.
It would be hard to do worse, at least with the away and 3rd kits.
Celtic's now signed with New Balance, too. There's no diversification in my fan portfolio, I'm at their mercy.
On the plus side, between the Newbury Street store and the Factory Store at their HQ in Brighton, I'll be able to see a lot of merch in person.
Celtic's now signed with New Balance, too. There's no diversification in my fan portfolio, I'm at their mercy.
On the plus side, between the Newbury Street store and the Factory Store at their HQ in Brighton, I'll be able to see a lot of merch in person.
I always laugh when the alleged inspiration for new kits is explained. This is from the Guardian:
"The chequerboard pattern is inspired by the red and white mosaic formed when supporters on the Kop hoist aloft their Liverpool flags and scarves on a matchday."
I guess no one wants to say, "We needed something different enough that everyone will notice if you're wearing last year's kit and think you're a cheap bastard, but didn't want something crazy enough that fans boycott it."
"The chequerboard pattern is inspired by the red and white mosaic formed when supporters on the Kop hoist aloft their Liverpool flags and scarves on a matchday."
I guess no one wants to say, "We needed something different enough that everyone will notice if you're wearing last year's kit and think you're a cheap bastard, but didn't want something crazy enough that fans boycott it."
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