This is correct, except for the bunt.rembrat said:Basically it boils down to "Farrell makes defensible moves but he doesn't make the moves I want so he is a bad in-game manager."
We didn't agree with Gump's in-game in 2003 and Theo and his bosses agreed (not that Farrell is in any danger of getting fired).rembrat said:Basically it boils down to "Farrell makes defensible moves but he doesn't make the moves I want so he is a bad in-game manager."
Not deep enough... In my opinion this was one of the worst managerial decisions I can ever remember. Yes, it was that bad. You have first base open, two outs, an 81% win expectancy at the moment Longoria walks to the plate - and you elect to pitch to him? Over Wil Myers? The 22 year old deer in the headlights who is 0-12 in the series? Man, talk about letting your opponent off the mat.Al Zarilla said:One last post about not walking Longoria to pitch to Myers. There is another pretty good hitter who is struggling mightily this postseason, Jed Lowrie, who is 0 for 12 with 6 Ks. I would walk, say, Cespedes, or even Brandon Moss (with a RHP vs. Moss) every time in the fifth inning in a second and third situation and two out to geto Lowrie right now. There is something about the postseason that makes some good hitters get tight, or something. Remember Barry Bonds except for 2002? I'd have to play that angle if I were managing.
If Farrell has a weakness as a manager, to me, it's definitely in game managing.
Ed., horse buried very deep now.
rembrat said:Here is a question: What if Longo gets the IBB and Myers goes yard and the Rays get the lead? Are you guys content that Longo didn't beat you and how do you feel about Farrell putting the go-ahead run on base? Honest answers. Please. I'm truly curious about the thought process here.
smastroyin said:I don't know if I would have IBB'd, but I probably would not have given him anything in the strikezone. Maybe that was the plan and Buchholz failed completely.
I'm going to give Farrell & Co. some credit and assume that is exactly what happened.smastroyin said:I don't know if I would have IBB'd, but I probably would not have given him anything in the strikezone. Maybe that was the plan and Buchholz failed completely.
koufax37 said:
I oppose walking him for this possible result among others. The "don't let him beat you" deals with approach, and I would have liked a better pitch in that situation from Clay.
Yes. I'm totally fine with that. The odds are significantly better that Longo hits a HR there rather than Myers. One guy has done it a million times - 9 career post season homeruns (not to mention 6, yes 6, homeruns in games 162 - including game winners in 2011 and 2013) - and countless other examples of being a Red Sox killer. And the other guy, like I said, is 22 years old with 13 career homeruns, is 0-12 in the series, and already showed with the misplay in game 1 that he is clearly letting his nerves get the best of him.rembrat said:Here is a question: What if Longo gets the IBB and Myers goes yard and the Rays get the lead? Are you guys content that Longo didn't beat you and how do you feel about Farrell putting the go-ahead run on base? Honest answers. Please. I'm truly curious about the thought process here.
joe dokes said:
Actually, from that, his shot at a 3-6-3 looks about the same as the 3-2 force. But when I saw this replay last night, I thought "Fuld running, that may have been too close and failure means a crooked number." So I thought taking the out was ok there.
This also speaks to something I (and others I;m sure) have mentioned before.
Napoli is much better than anyone thought with the glove. But elite defensive 1Bmen make their money by not being afraid to throw. Its what made Youkilis so good. And, going back in time, its what made Keith Hernandez about the best I've ever seen. If you rotate the IF on that play, and make Napoli an experienced 3Bman, and a runner going to second is the same distance from second as Fuld is from home in that shot, the experienced 3Bman makes that throw to second; a less experienced 3Bman might not.
koufax37 said:
I oppose walking him for this possible result among others. The "don't let him beat you" deals with approach, and I would have liked a better pitch in that situation from Clay. The dropoff from Longo to Myers isn't severe (read: Barry Bonds-ish) enough to merit middle innings bases loading tying run on base to face a hitter with a near identical OPS+ this season.
I would like better pitching there, but I would have been against the IBB even if Myers had followed with a grounder to short. The results don't impact my feeling on the strategy there given the situation and the two hitters in question.
Rudy Pemberton said:Why are folks acting as if Myers being 0-12 in the series is predictive of anything?
Honest question..In your opinion, this was a worst decision than Grady in 2003 or John MacNamera in 86? I think you might be guilty of a little hyberbole there. No matter what happens, the decision was not a series clincher by any means. The Red Sox still have 2 chances to close it out.Bone Chips said:Not deep enough... In my opinion this was one of the worst managerial decisions I can ever remember. Yes, it was that bad. You have first base open, two outs, an 81% win expectancy at the moment Longoria walks to the plate - and you elect to pitch to him? Over Wil Myers? The 22 year old deer in the headlights who is 0-12 in the series? Man, talk about letting your opponent off the mat.
Bone Chips said:Not deep enough... In my opinion this was one of the worst managerial decisions I can ever remember. Yes, it was that bad. You have first base open, two outs, an 81% win expectancy at the moment Longoria walks to the plate - and you elect to pitch to him? Over Wil Myers? The 22 year old deer in the headlights who is 0-12 in the series? Man, talk about letting your opponent off the mat.
Well it can't be too insane, because despite all those numbers you're throwing out there Longoria did in fact hit a three run bomb. Question is - why would you allow the other team's best player to beat you in that situation? I just don't get it. People are worried about putting the go ahead run at the plate? Seems to me the 4th run isn't the one that kills you there, it's the first 3. What's especially maddening is that it's not like there was a hot hitter or a proven veteran who was on deck. Wil Meyers is going to be a nice player some day, but Evan Longoria now has almost as many homeruns (10) in the playoffs as Myers has in his entire MLB career (13). Meyers is 0-12 in the series and clearly choking under the pressure - to the point where he is getting dehydrated in an air conditioned stadium! He is actually the one player I want to be up in a pressure situation like that.glennhoffmania said:
This is a little insane. Let's just look at the numbers.
Longoria hit a HR in 4.6% of his PAs this season. For his career he's hit a HR in 4.7% of his PAs.
Buchholz this year has allowed a HR 1% of the time (4 out of 416). For his career he's allowed a HR 2.3% of the time (72 out of 3126).
In 41 career PAs against Buchholz Longoria has hit 1 HR. His overall line is .216/.293/.378.
But letting Clay pitch to Longoria up 3 runs in that situation was the worst decision ever?
adam42381 said:FWIW, Pedro just said you have to walk Longoria to pitch to Myers. If Pedro says it, I'm on his side.
Rudy Pemberton said:Why are folks acting as if Myers being 0-12 in the series is predictive of anything?
One other thing .. Pedro , being a superstar,obviously buys into the concept of superstars being treated as something greater than their stats. Longo vs. Myers is an excellent example of that. Longoria is a superstar .. Who just happens to have had a year approximately the same as a rookie. Other than thinking Myers will somehow crumple in the hot glare of the playoffs what is there in the difference between the two guys that you would walk one to face the other?Reverend said:I know you're kidding (at least in part) but Pedro is also a crazy person. Which is also part of why he was such a great starting pitcher.
Aces are crazy people. Prima donnas. Think they can get anyone out at any time. You want your pitcher to believe that, even when it's not true. You pull him or make him walk a guy when you know it might not be. You definitely don't always trust all their calls.*
*Caveat: Unless the fighter pilot is Lonestar and is leading the Americans against an alien invasion to save the human race.
I think he figured that the top of the order was going to be a high stress situation and had faith in Tazawa to get the #9 pinch hitter.Stitch01 said:Glad to see him pull the trigger on X tonight. Helped turn the game around.
Curious why he didn't go to Koji for five outs with the off day.
Stitch01 said:Glad to see him pull the trigger on X tonight. Helped turn the game around.
Curious why he didn't go to Koji for five outs with the off day.
A Playoff Farrell emerges.SoxScout said:"I reserved the right to change my mind.... I'd lie if I said last night didn't play a part in tonight's decision ... Bogaerts ice in his veins." - Farrell
:SoxScout, on 09 Oct 2013 - 01:00 AM, said
SoxScout said:"I reserved the right to change my mind.... I'd lie if I said last night didn't play a part in tonight's decision ... Bogaerts ice in his veins." - Farrell
rembrat said:A Playoff Farrell emerges.
TheoShmeo said:The confidence and emotional maturity that Farrell showed when he changed his mind on Drew-Bogaerts and admitted it openly to the world was tremendous and so good to see. Not getting caught up in "sticking to my guns" is a rare trait, and I'm glad it's not something Farrell clings to. A far cry from Jimy Williams' type "Manager's Decision" way of being. Or Grady's abject and stubborn stupidity on the Pedro Boner.
I would love to know what the process was there. Did Farrell just have an epiphany? Did this result from conversations with Lovullo and the other coaches? Did Ben or Larry offer a view? I doubt we'll know this any time soon, if ever, and I hope I'm wrong on that.
Last, I wonder what this means going forward. The logical extension of Farrell's decision last night would be to start Bogaerts against lefties. JF cited Drew's troubles against southpaws and Xander's maturity. Neither of those things is changing any time soon, and there's no real difference between the first inning and the middle part of the game.
lexrageorge said:I believe Farrell described the decision process quite well when it came to having Drew face McGee in Game 3; it was a judgment that Drew would be more likely to get on base, given McGee's reverse splits and the lack of MLB data on Bogaerts. The situation was different in Game 4: the Sox were down a run.
I don't believe bringing in Tazawa was a mistake; he's pitched well, and he's had plenty of rest.
Peavy hadn't pitched in 13 days, which may have contributed to the quick hook. Farrell said multiple times that they thought he was cooked; the margin of error in that situation was tiny. Better to take a chance and use one of their more effective late inning relievers in that high leverage situation.
Happy that the team is going back to Fenway to prepare for Game 1 instead of Game 5.
smastroyin said:
Third, I have said this before but people still seem to miss the point of why I post in here. The easiest things to talk about WRT managing are probably the least important (except when they are really really really bad). The most important part of a manager's job is boring to talk about. And John Farrell does that well. This team is loose, plays with confidence, trust each other and their manager. Being a great in game manager isn't a requirement of being a great manager. So great job John Farrell and congratulations on making the ALCS.
I assume staying out of yet another double play was a major part of the thought process. Maybe he thought sending Nava would have the advantage of surprise, although I hope not.Morgan said:The hit and run was definitely puzzling.