Let's Lay Off That Throttle

[jbupstate]

Big questions.

Where does this leave the us (team/fans) now that the “truth” comes out?

I choose to believe ownership is not comfortable with a bad product and/or willing to operate like a mid market. They were in on YY… only willing to offer $275m not $375m? Seems like they didn’t have $ problems and cared a little.

Being cheap (since Liverpool investment remember) doesn’t make sense for one undeniable reason. The brand WILL lose value.

I don’t know how anyone can believe Breslow hasn’t done a “good” job so far. Other candidates passed on the job because they were aware of the situation? While nothing was hitting the airwaves or print? Doesn’t make sense.

It is very clear to me that the ownership group is very lacking in one respect…. They cannot spin for shit. Right now they are consistently walking in to lamp posts.

This isn’t a post to challenge others. A couple questions but more a a vent from a disappointed long, long time fan.

 

[jmanny24]

I was a Bloom guy and thought he should've been given the offseason to spend based on what ownership was shoveling to us at the time. I then began to laugh as they had so much trouble getting people to interview for the position. Then it was let's see what Breslow can do with the young pitching and the money they have to spend. I was going to wait until Montgomery and Snell signed to pass judgement on the offseason. But last night clearly brought an end to that and as angry as most of us are I haven't seen any of the media (maybe they have and didn't get an answer) ask why? Why the shift in spending less? Why does the current payroll number seem like where you want to stay? Why do you continually talk out of both sides of your mouth? A final question from me because I'm curious, where does the money from all of the extra-curricular activities (concerts, tours, football games, etc.) go because it's certainly not going back to the baseball team?

 

[Steve Dillard]

No wonder none of the legit team President/GM candidates considered the Sox this off-season. The perception in the industry of ownership’s lack of resolve to spend to win has been confirmed by ownership itself.

Craig Breslow may be a fine person and may eventually become a good GM, but he was a bargain basement candidate. He is a perfect analog to how ownership approaches player free agency.

So, the ownership telling Breslow he has no restrictions, but Breslow not finding anything yet to spend it on is confirmation by ownership that it will not spend?


Let's recognize (a) there were few premium buys this offseason, (b) that Breslow is new and likely not as decisive on pulling the trigger at this point, (c) the team is not one big splash away from contending and (d) keeping powder dry for creative moves is very valuable.

I'd prefer someone developing a plan to use the financial flexibility for a longer-term purpose rather than a one-year stopgap "let me see if Kluber has anything left"

Maybe Breslow, like Bloom, has no such plan. But I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
And I certainly won't blame ownership which has shown that they want to spend, and are frustrated by their GM's non-spending. Enough so that they fired Bloom, and told Breslow to go full throttle.
Unfortunately Breslow has reported back that it makes no sense yet to spend wildly, leaving Werner with big egg on his face..... until either the market for Montgomery craters and we sign him, or a team with a pending FA to be goes into sell mode mid-year, or a team with an albatross contract looks to unload/subsidize it, or Casas and Bello want to lock into longer term security in return for a bump up.

 

[tims4wins]

What distinguishes the Cs and the NEP is that, for all of their faults, the Krafts and Grousbeck/Pagliuca are real fans themselves. It's never been clear to me that Werner really was. and as Henry ages, I begin to wonder whether he now regards the RS as an investment. It is, but it's a hell of a lot more than that.

Yeah, that’s a fair point. We have little reason to doubt the Celts or Pats will stop trying and just try to pad the bottom line.

 

[CR67dream]

It’s interesting to think about, this idea of “quitting”. I’m never going to “quit” in the sense that I’ll always keep an eye on them, and if things change, then I’ll re-engage. But I absolutely have been a fair weather fan for some time now, and that will continue into the foreseeable future. With the four titles it’s not that difficult. And honestly it’s pretty similar with the Celts, Bs, and Pats at this point. We are so lucky to have those 12 titles from 2001 to 2018. Hopefully we’ll get a couple more from the Cs or Bs. We’re also super fortunate that at least 2 of the 4 teams have been very good or better for a while now. We always have a great team to watch. Right now it’s not the Sox, so I won’t bother. I hope, like all of us, that it changes sometime in the next few years. But that’s all it is at this point - hope. I do not have much confidence.

I'm not far off from a lot of this. My point about quitting the Sox is that there are folks here who have gotten to that point, and I respect it. It just isn't an option for me. My mom was pregnant with me in April of 1967, and she went to Fenway on Tony Conigliaro bat day, when they gave out bats (real bats back then) to kids under 12. She pointed at her belly, and a minute later I was in Fenway, owner of a Tony C bat, all before I was even breathing on my own. I had absolutely no chance.

This place is great for a lot of reasons, but one of the biggest for me is because we get to hear why each other care so much about this team, and what we think can make it the best it can be. I hate when that gets drowned out with angst and anger, however justified.

I mean, I just learned that we are closely aligned in that the championships and success take a lot of the edge off of it all for us. Not everyone subscribes to that, and that's fine, but things like that are what we learn if we do more than just vent into the void.

 

[cornwalls@6]

The worst part in all of this for me is that wanting to reset things over the course of the past few seasons not only made sense, but it was 100% doable. Like a lot of people I bought in and if the intent was pure, the mission would be nearing completion. Yet here we are. My wife and I would typically attend 3-6 games per season. Covid and a couple of surgeries have curbed that the past couple of seasons. Last year we attended our first Woo Sox game and loved the experience so I feel it's likely that we'll be following the lead of ownership and not spend up to our full capabilities.

I bought in too. Fell for the logic, and assumed what was being presented to the fan base as the plan, was in good faith. Yesterday, and some of the reporting about how even Breslow was misled about their economic commitment to this year and beyond, was the moment of clarity for me. Kudos to those that saw it earlier. Great plan on Worcester. I’m definitely going there for a couple this year as well.

 

[RedOctober3829]

So, the ownership telling Breslow he has no restrictions, but Breslow not finding anything yet to spend it on is confirmation by ownership that it will not spend?


Let's recognize (a) there were few premium buys this offseason, (b) that Breslow is new and likely not as decisive on pulling the trigger at this point, (c) the team is not one big splash away from contending and (d) keeping powder dry for creative moves is very valuable.

I'd prefer someone developing a plan to use the financial flexibility for a longer-term purpose rather than a one-year stopgap "let me see if Kluber has anything left"

Maybe Breslow, like Bloom, has no such plan. But I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
And I certainly won't blame ownership which has shown that they want to spend, and are frustrated by their GM's non-spending. Enough so that they fired Bloom, and told Breslow to go full throttle.
Unfortunately Breslow has reported back that it makes no sense yet to spend wildly, leaving Werner with big egg on his face..... until either the market for Montgomery craters and we sign him, or a team with a pending FA to be goes into sell mode mid-year, or a team with an albatross contract looks to unload/subsidize it, or Casas and Bello want to lock into longer term security in return for a bump up.

Nothing to spend their money on? Couldn’t be further from the truth. There has been and continues to be players out there to bring in and make this team better. As far as financial flexibility, they have that in spades. There’s no excuse for not making at least 1 significant addition to the rotation(Giolito does not count as he’s a project) and 1 big RH bat.

 

[8slim]

Historically I become an unrepentant optimist as we get close and closer to Opening Day. But man, here on 1/20, I can't look at this roster and see how it's going to be any better than last season. Certainly not good enough to win the 88+ games it'll likely take to snag a Wild Card spot.

Not only does the rotation look shaky, but it appears that we have even less depth than we did last season. And we know we'll need that depth. We always need that depth.

Meanwhile I count 2 reliable bats in the lineup: Devers and Casas. Everyone else has major questions. Last year's acquisitions had more of a track record to be optimistic about, IMHO.

I don't need much to look at the glass as being half full. But I just don't see it right now.

And to top that all off with now knowing that the FO isn't going to try to make things meaningfully better for 2024 is such a kick in the shins. It stinks.

 

[jbupstate]

Nothing to spend their money on? Couldn’t be further from the truth. There has been and continues to be players out there to bring in and make this team better. As far as financial flexibility, they have that in spades. There’s no excuse for not making at least 1 significant addition to the rotation(Giolito does not count as he’s a project) and 1 big RH bat.

It’s for the team to decide what it worth spending on. Yamamoto was considered the player to spend big on. But with BS and JM still unsigned… who did they miss out on?

This isn’t a defense of FSG. It’s a bad strategy to just spend to spend.

 

[tims4wins]

I'm not far off from a lot of this. My point about quitting the Sox is that there are folks here who have gotten to that point, and I respect it. It just isn't an option for me. My mom was pregnant with me in April of 1967, and she went to Fenway on Tony Conigliaro bat day, when they gave out bats (real bats back then) to kids under 12. She pointed at her belly, and a minute later I was in Fenway, owner of a Tony C bat, all before I was even breathing on my own. I had absolutely no chance.

This place is great for a lot of reasons, but one of the biggest for me is because we get to hear why each other care so much about this team, and what we think can make it the best it can be. I hate when that gets drowned out with angst and anger, however justified.

I mean, I just learned that we are closely aligned in that the championships and success take a lot of the edge off of it all for us. Not everyone subscribes to that, and that's fine, but things like that are what we learn if we do more than just vent into the void.

I’m with you. And for the reasons you laid out, can anyone who is posting on SoSH truly quit the Red Sox? I’d argue no. We are the most fanatical of all Red Sox fans. We care deeply. Some of us can probably tune them out more easily than others. But you’re telling me if they somehow win 87 games and sneak into the playoffs we won’t be watching? Or if in 2026 they turn into a 100 win machine? I can’t see anyone on here being truly done with them.

I said for years I was hoping to give up the NFL once BB and TB were gone, and I still can’t pull that trigger!

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Nothing to spend their money on? Couldn’t be further from the truth. There has been and continues to be players out there to bring in and make this team better. As far as financial flexibility, they have that in spades. There’s no excuse for not making at least 1 significant addition to the rotation(Giolito does not count as he’s a project) and 1 big RH bat.

I can see the argument that they haven't addressed the rotation to most folks' satisfaction. But who is the big RH bat that they haven't signed and where does he play when signed? That's a serious question, not trying to be snarky. Was there a significant target before the winter began to fill that spot the way there were specific targets for the rotation (YY, Nola, Montgomery, a trade acquisition, etc)?

 

[CR67dream]

Great plan on Worcester. I’m definitely going there for a couple this year as well.

Hmmm.... am I smelling a Western Mass SoSH Bash?

 

[KillerBs]

Someone decided not to pay more than the Cubs to get Imanaga. I doubt that was Breslow. It also seems the team has decided not to offer 3/45 or so for Soler with the result of him going elsewhere. If these two were signed, we would still be under CBT, we would be running out a team worth watching this year and I would be pretty optimistic about 2024 and beyond. IOW I cant buy there was nothing worth spending $ on in free agency this year.

 

[8slim]

I can see the argument that they haven't addressed the rotation to most folks' satisfaction. But who is the big RH bat that they haven't signed and where does he play when signed? That's a serious question, not trying to be snarky. Was there a significant target before the winter began to fill that spot the way there were specific targets for the rotation (YY, Nola, Montgomery, a trade acquisition, etc)?

I'm not nearly as plugged into the FA market, and available trade market, as many of you. However, couldn't a big RH bat play in any of our three OF spots or DH? Or second base for that matter? This lineup appears to be really lacking. There's room for a legit big time RH bat all over.

 

[jmanny24]

I’m with you. And for the reasons you laid out, can anyone who is posting on SoSH truly quit the Red Sox? I’d argue no. We are the most fanatical of all Red Sox fans. We care deeply. Some of us can probably tune them out more easily than others. But you’re telling me if they somehow win 87 games and sneak into the playoffs we won’t be watching? Or if in 2026 they turn into a 100 win machine? I can’t see anyone on here being truly done with them.

I said for years I was hoping to give up the NFL once BB and TB were gone, and I still can’t pull that trigger!

As to the bolded I'd say yes in some form. I'm sure even if we don't watch as much we will still check boxscores and watch highlights, but with more and more people cutting the cord (like myself) I could see NESN360 subs going down (I won't be renewing) and that is something even if we aren't sure how much of a dent it would make.

 

[simplicio]

I'm not nearly as plugged into the FA market, and available trade market, as many of you. However, couldn't a big RH bat play in any of our three OF spots or DH? Or second base for that matter? This lineup appears to be really lacking. There's room for a legit big time RH bat all over.

We got Grissom for 2B.

 

[8slim]

We got Grissom for 2B.

My point exactly. Are people suggesting that he, or O'Neill are locked in so much that we couldn't accommodate a reliable, productive RH bat? The vast majority of this lineup is built on hopes and dreams.

 

[cornwalls@6]

I'm not far off from a lot of this. My point about quitting the Sox is that there are folks here who have gotten to that point, and I respect it. It just isn't an option for me. My mom was pregnant with me in April of 1967, and she went to Fenway on Tony Conigliaro bat day, when they gave out bats (real bats back then) to kids under 12. She pointed at her belly, and a minute later I was in Fenway, owner of a Tony C bat, all before I was even breathing on my own. I had absolutely no chance.

This place is great for a lot of reasons, but one of the biggest for me is because we get to hear why each other care so much about this team, and what we think can make it the best it can be. I hate when that gets drowned out with angst and anger, however justified.

I mean, I just learned that we are closely aligned in that the championships and success take a lot of the edge off of it all for us. Not everyone subscribes to that, and that's fine, but things like that are what we learn if we do more than just vent into the void.

My connection to the team goes decades deep as well. And is very much rooted in father’s passion for baseball and the Red Sox, and how he passed it down to myself and my siblings. But the truth is, my fandom has always had ebbs and flows as an adult. It’s never been an all in or all out binary with me. It’s been flowing pretty strong since roughly when Pedro got here, after a lull post-strike. Starting with last year, I definitely feel myself heading into an ebb. I hope they surprise me, and make it a short one. But also like you, I’ll never totally quit. Too much history, and too much enjoyment of the game.

 

[YTF]

Hmmm.... am I smelling a Western Mass SoSH Bash?

I'm in, look for the guy who looks like the love child of David Wells and Kevin Youkilis.

 

[simplicio]

My point exactly. Are people suggesting that he, or O'Neill are locked in so much that we couldn't accommodate a reliable, productive RH bat? The vast majority of this lineup is built on hopes and dreams.

You'd have to trade for another 2B then and that would be weird, cause the FA market was garbage for that position.

 

[jbupstate]

My point exactly. Are people suggesting that he, or O'Neill are locked in so much that we couldn't accommodate a reliable, productive RH bat?

The available bats out there are Soler, JDM, Duval and Turner. Duval at least can play the field. None are leading the next, great team and all have downsides.

 

[cornwalls@6]

Hmmm.... am I smelling a Western Mass SoSH Bash?

That is definitely an intriguing idea.

 

[Jimbodandy]

It’s becoming more and more apparent that Bloom’s firing was window dressing or throwing meat to the wolves.

We could have a new GM every year but it all starts at the top. It just doesn’t matter who is in charge of baseball ops—and I think we fooled ourselves into believing that it ever did.

Yes. It always starts at the top. And for many years that was a good thing. Top3 payrolls, willingness to take big chances, trying different approaches. Not anymore. It's depressing.

I'm not far off from a lot of this. My point about quitting the Sox is that there are folks here who have gotten to that point, and I respect it. It just isn't an option for me. My mom was pregnant with me in April of 1967, and she went to Fenway on Tony Conigliaro bat day, when they gave out bats (real bats back then) to kids under 12. She pointed at her belly, and a minute later I was in Fenway, owner of a Tony C bat, all before I was even breathing on my own. I had absolutely no chance.

This place is great for a lot of reasons, but one of the biggest for me is because we get to hear why each other care so much about this team, and what we think can make it the best it can be. I hate when that gets drowned out with angst and anger, however justified.

I mean, I just learned that we are closely aligned in that the championships and success take a lot of the edge off of it all for us. Not everyone subscribes to that, and that's fine, but things like that are what we learn if we do more than just vent into the void.

Man, you're about a year older than I am. And for many of us, the Red Sox were a first love. My first year glued to the TV was 1977. Loved that team. Every day was a homer fest, and Fred Lynn was like JBJ as a ballet dancer.

We endured bad ownership and teams built to win more than they lose but seldom to really contend. But we were young, so we hung on and watched/listened anyway. It's just what you do. But I'm old now, and that investment of time and energy and emotion is not free anymore. They need to meet us in the middle. I don't need the profligate Dodger or old-school Yankee spending. Just don't pocket all of the money and try to outsmart everyone else. Outsmarting people and also spending is what I expect.

I walked away from the Bruins altogether over 20 years ago and haven't regretted it once. If the Sox new model is to hang around the fringes of contention hoping to get lucky on the odd year or two and make a run, I'll be adjusting my emotional and financial commitments accordingly.

 

[tims4wins]

As to the bolded I'd say yes in some form. I'm sure even if we don't watch as much we will still check boxscores and watch highlights, but with more and more people cutting the cord (like myself) I could see NESN360 subs going down (I won't be renewing) and that is something even if we aren't sure how much of a dent it would make.

This is what I mean though. That’s not fully quitting. I am talking about not paying attention, at all. I already have cut the cord and don’t get NESN. I don’t watch them much. But I absolutely know what is happening through both box scores, and more importantly, SoSH. By quitting I mean full cold turkey. No posting about them on SoSH. No box score checking. Etc.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Like if they extended Casas today, even if its yielding some of his value back to him earlier than they should, it feels like it would be a huge PR move. Lock their best established young gun up and then it looks like they have some sort plan.

Because here is what I am thinking - if he continues to develop into a star player, there is no chance he stays in Boston if he gets to market with this ownership group at the helm.

I am not even sure I want to fall for Triston's dreamy batting eyes or beastly plate discipline if he'll just take his talents to Flushing or LA or the Bronx on the follow.

Why bother watching the kids develop if someone else gets to see them win?

 

[SouthernBoSox]

View: https://twitter.com/redsoxstats/status/1748739624569033142?s=46



The more they talk the worse this gets.

 

[jmanny24]

This is what I mean though. That’s not fully quitting. I am talking about not paying attention, at all. I already have cut the cord and don’t get NESN. I don’t watch them much. But I absolutely know what is happening through both box scores, and more importantly, SoSH. By quitting I mean full cold turkey. No posting about them on SoSH. No box score checking. Etc.

You're right, my bad, in my brain we were talking more boycott (as a financial statement), not necessarily quitting. As a kid who threw a toy in the fireplace during game 6 of '86, I don't think I could ever fully quit either.

 

[Otis Foster]

John Henry is now in his mid-70s. I wonder how much pressure there is from his financial advisors to monetize his RS investment? (Linda Pizzuti doesn't seem to be a significant presence with the RS, so I assume she won't be a Jean Yawkey.)

Do we view this shift in orientation and the emergence of Werner and Kennedy as spokespersons as part of the process to prep the Henry holdings for an eventual sale? Any potential buyers analyzing media and fan negativity might begin to look at this investment as a turn-around, but maybe the logic is to face the storm now, while he's relatively young, just to get it out of the way. Or maybe they just guessed wrong about resistance to what they're doing and how they're doing it (thank you, Occam).

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

I'm not nearly as plugged into the FA market, and available trade market, as many of you. However, couldn't a big RH bat play in any of our three OF spots or DH? Or second base for that matter? This lineup appears to be really lacking. There's room for a legit big time RH bat all over.

I understand that parts can be moved around to accommodate a player, I'm just asking who that player is. There really weren't that many "big" RH bats on the free agent market this winter.

The biggest RH bats still on the market (ranked by Spotrac's market value tool) are Rhys Hoskins, Matt Chapman, JD Martinez, and Jorge Soler. The biggest contracts given to RH bats so far this winter (by total dollars) have gone to Lourdes Gurriel (re-signed with same team), Mitch Garver, and Teoscar Hernandez. None of those guys scream out as can't miss signings and considering some of them are still available, if they are a fit for the Sox they arguably can still be had.

 

[jmanny24]

View: https://twitter.com/redsoxstats/status/1748739624569033142?s=46



The more they talk the worse this gets.

You don't accept mediocrity? But you're thriving on it with the asset that started your whole FSG venture...GTFOH with that crap!

 

[bosox188]

View: https://twitter.com/redsoxstats/status/1748739624569033142?s=46



The more they talk the worse this gets.

Tom Werner lives his life one quarter mile at a time.

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

Someone decided not to pay more than the Cubs to get Imanaga. I doubt that was Breslow. It also seems the team has decided not to offer 3/45 or so for Soler with the result of him going elsewhere. If these two were signed, we would still be under CBT, we would be running out a team worth watching this year and I would be pretty optimistic about 2024 and beyond. IOW I cant buy there was nothing worth spending $ on in free agency this year.

I (blindly) wanted them to sign Imanaga. But there are plenty of questions about him, mainly real concerns about his home run rate. Maybe you doubt it was Breslow's decision, but as a pitcher whisperer, it's just as likely that it was. He's evaluating these guys and putting a value on them.
And frankly, I like that. If he didn't think Imanaga is going be very good in the US, I'm glad he didn't outbid the Cubs.
Trying to figure out what decisions came from ownership and what came from management is nearly impossible.

 

[HfxBob]

I don’t know how anyone can believe Breslow hasn’t done a “good” job so far. Other candidates passed on the job because they were aware of the situation? While nothing was hitting the airwaves or print? Doesn’t make sense.

Very little of what I've been hearing has been critical of Breslow or any of his moves. The blame has been directed almost exclusively at ownership.

Re: the other candidates passing - I'd say this was mainly attributed to the appearance of dysfunction at the top created in large part by the revolving door of CBOs. Many were surprised that Dombrowski was fired after 3 division titles and a ring. And some have also argued that Bloom seemed to have done largely what he was hired to do-build the farm, reduce payroll, and keep the team somewhat competitive.

 

[8slim]

You'd have to trade for another 2B then and that would be weird, cause the FA market was garbage for that position.

The available bats out there are Soler, JDM, Duval and Turner. Duval at least can play the field. None are leading the next, great team and all have downsides.

But now we’re right back to the refrain I’ve been reading here for 2 years: the Red Sox FO can’t do anything. Their hands are tied. The market is bereft/overpriced.

I don’t buy it.

Breslow has made two relatively unexpected trades this winter and gotten good returns, according to the majority of people here. If he hadn’t gotten Grissom for Sale people would say an upgrade from last years 2B was impossible because of the FA market. And yet we supposedly have.

But there’s simply no way to improve this sketchy lineup for 2024?

Again, I don’t buy it.

 

[tims4wins]

The mediocrity quote is LOL. Yesterday he said that winning “probably” matters.

 

[simplicio]

As someone who's coveted Montgomery since the last trade deadline, I think it truly sucks that we apparently aren't using money to improve the baseball team right now.

That said, I also think there's a whole lot more certainty being read into the situation here than the facts support.

Is there a financial cap? Possibly.
Have they been intent on being a mid market team since trading Mookie? Possibly.
Does ownership view the Sox as just another asset on a spreadsheet? Possibly.
Is there simply nobody left on the market Breslow feels is worth spending big on this year and he doesn't want to spend just to spend? Possibly.

The uncertainty of the whole situation is the worst part, and I really hope we get more clarity with follow up reporting.

 

[HfxBob]

The mediocrity quote is LOL. Yesterday he said that winning “probably” matters.

It's like they're trying to deliver a master class in mixed messaging. As others are saying, the more they say the worse it gets.

 

[Otis Foster]

Someone decided not to pay more than the Cubs to get Imanaga. I doubt that was Breslow. It also seems the team has decided not to offer 3/45 or so for Soler with the result of him going elsewhere. If these two were signed, we would still be under CBT, we would be running out a team worth watching this year and I would be pretty optimistic about 2024 and beyond. IOW I cant buy there was nothing worth spending $ on in free agency this year.

Imananga had visited Chicago and apparently fallen in love with the city and it's Japan town. (I can't call up where I read this.) He expressed hopes that he could work something out with the Cubbies. If you have concrete evidence to the support your cheapness theses, please enlighten the rest of us..

 

[astrozombie]

Very little of what I've been hearing has been critical of Breslow or any of his moves. The blame has been directed almost exclusively at ownership.

Re: the other candidates passing - I'd say this was mainly attributed to the appearance of dysfunction at the top created in large part by the revolving door of CBOs. Many were surprised that Dombrowski was fired after 3 division titles and a ring. And some have also argued that Bloom seemed to have done largely what he was hired to do-build the farm, reduce payroll, and keep the team somewhat competitive.

I was blown away they fired Bloom. Not that I think he did a good job, but he did everything ownership asked of him (cut payroll, focus on the farm) and was still fired. I would be curious FSGs internal logic - was he really difficult for other teams to work with? Did they think he was going in the wrong direction? Was he a sacrificial lamb for an agitated fan base? But I imagine other candidates saw that happen and were skittish.

 

[jbupstate]

Very little of what I've been hearing has been critical of Breslow or any of his moves. The blame has been directed almost exclusively at ownership.

Re: the other candidates passing - I'd say this was mainly attributed to the appearance of dysfunction at the top created in large part by the revolving door of CBOs. Many were surprised that Dombrowski was fired after 3 division titles and a ring. And some have also argued that Bloom seemed to have done largely what he was hired to do-build the farm, reduce payroll, and keep the team somewhat competitive.

Thank you for the even handed response. I do think Bloom was set up to fail and scapegoated. I was in agreement that his firing was warranted.

Do you believe a higher rated GM candidate could have navigated the water this offseason to date?

 

[Philip Jeff Frye]

Eh, kinda maybe, but "star attraction" can be overrated, and I'm looking forward to seeing quite a few of the players we have. The Angels were loaded with "star attraction", how'd that work out?

At least Angel fans got to experience Trout and Ohtani as individual performers. We're going to be just as mediocre but with that, at least until the franchise saviors in the minors start showing up in a few more years.

 

[HfxBob]

Imananga had visited Chicago and apparently fallen in love with the city and it's Japan town. (I can't call up where I read this.) He expressed hopes that he could work something out with the Cubbies. If you have concrete evidence to the support your cheapness theses, please enlighten the rest of us..

The Cubs offered him 4 guaranteed years plus bells and whistles stuff. The Red Sox offered him 2 guaranteed years plus bells and whistles stuff. Not sure there's any more to it than that.

 

[jbupstate]

Imananga had visited Chicago and apparently fallen in love with the city and it's Japan town. (I can't call up where I read this.) He expressed hopes that he could work something out with the Cubbies. If you have concrete evidence to the support your cheapness theses, please enlighten the rest of us..

To add, the price paid was within the budget of tons of teams looking for starting pitching. Maybe, just maybe talent evaluators across multiple team believe he was worth the investment.

This lose in free agency could very well end up a win.

 

[simplicio]

But now we’re right back to the refrain I’ve been reading here for 2 years: the Red Sox FO can’t do anything. Their hands are tied. The market is bereft/overpriced.

I don’t buy it.

Breslow has made two relatively unexpected trades this winter and gotten good returns, according to the majority of people here. If he hadn’t gotten Grissom for Sale people would say an upgrade from last years 2B was impossible because of the FA market. And yet we supposedly have.

But there’s simply no way to improve this sketchy lineup for 2024?

Again, I don’t buy it.

No, that's simply not true. Lots of us were clamoring for Drury or Polanco trades for 2B before we got Grissom. Nobody was clamoring for FA there because, as stated, the options sucked. And the FO has no power over the quality of the FA market, obviously.

 

[HfxBob]

Thank you for the even handed response. I do think Bloom was set up to fail and scapegoated. I was in agreement that his firing was warranted.

Do you believe a higher rated GM candidate could have navigated the water this offseason to date?

That's a hard question, because we don't know how much say Breslow has had in how much to offer to free agents. The roster moves he has made look solid and the moves to build up the pitching development are encouraging.

 

[8slim]

No, that's simply not true. Lots of us were clamoring for Drury or Polanco trades for 2B before we got Grissom. Nobody was clamoring for FA there because, as stated, the options sucked. And the FO has no power over the quality of the FA market, obviously.

I’m glad to hear you guys were clamoring for a trade. That’s great.

Then forget I said 2B. We have 3 OF spots and a DH where any more-than-decent hitter could a slot into. They need to go get one. It’s not impossible. But I suspect they don’t have the will. So we’ll get 130 games of O’Neil’s 88 OPS+. Huzzah.

 

[YTF]

TC just mentioned the fact that the Sox have not significantly added to the roster the past few trade deadlines and point blank asked Kennedy if the Sox are in contention this season will they in fact go out and get the pieces need to stay in contention and the answer (with Werner by his side) was "absolutely". I'm not holding my breath as to the team being in contention at the deadline, but I'm hoping against hope to see how this definitive answer of "absolutely" on January 20th will translate as July 30th approaches.

 

[DeadlySplitter]

Where would FSG have suffered losses this winter? Liverpool?

 

[tims4wins]

At least Angel fans got to experience Trout and Ohtani as individual performers. We're going to be just as mediocre but with that, at least until the franchise saviors in the minors start showing up in a few more years.

Right. No one here would rather be the recent Angels. But, the Sox have zero star power. I’m not going to watch simply to see Raffy hit 4x a game.

 

[JCizzle]

TC just mentioned the fact that the Sox have not significantly added to the roster the past few trade deadlines and point blank asked Kennedy if the Sox are in contention this season will they in fact go out and get the pieces need to stay in contention and the answer (with Werner by his side) was "absolutely". I'm not holding my breath as to the team being in contention at the deadline, but I'm hoping against hope to see how this definitive answer of "absolutely" on January 20th will translate as July 30th approaches.

They deserve zero benefit of the doubt at this point. I’ll believe it when it happens and not a second before that.