Lester: Stop Believing What You Read on Twitter.
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It makes some sense if they've gone as high as they're going to go. If nothing else, it forces Lester to definitely say "No" to Boston before other teams sweeten their offers and put more distance between the best offers and Boston's. It also allows the FO to focus on other options that much sooner if he's not coming back.rembrat said:
Given the personal relationship described between JWH and Lester, I seriously doubt he is imposing a deadline, however I can see where Baseball Ops would want one:
I doubt the Sox are looking to add both Lester and another big ticket SP like Hammels or Scherzer (or a trade target they would like to extend) to the payroll. At a certain point they need an answer from Lester as it affects which way the other dominoes fall. The #2 they need is probably different depending on if they have to pay Lester.
I doubt the Sox are looking to add both Lester and another big ticket SP like Hammels or Scherzer (or a trade target they would like to extend) to the payroll. At a certain point they need an answer from Lester as it affects which way the other dominoes fall. The #2 they need is probably different depending on if they have to pay Lester.
Well, I don't think the Sox are the lowest bidder, but even if they are, I imagine every team places some sort of deadline on their offer. They may have 2 or 3 offers out there to other pitchers/players, and decisions need to be made to shore up other spots on the roster. It would be irresponsible to leave an offer out there indefinitely for the player to accept at their leisure.rembrat said:
Every team rumored to be involved has a possible reason to lay down a deadline. We're not even sure if any deadline has been imposed.
http://www.weei.com//sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/rob-bradford/2014/12/08/one-john-henry-plane-flight-later-stage-set-j
It isn't yet certain which team did what when wooing Lester. But what we can grasp -- thanks to what knowledge we have of Henry's visit late last week - is that this wasn't going be the "we tried, but …" kind of approach the Red Sox have presented in the past.
It might not be enough. It wasn't after the 2008 season when Mark Teixeira soaked in the Sox' adulation before getting tattooed with pinstripes for eight years. And maybe -- because of love, comfort or money -- this negotiation will result in similar disappointment for the Red Sox once again.
But if the Red Sox do extend themselves just enough to haul in Lester, the March debacle shouldn't really be a talking point. They kept the player while seemingly not affecting the acquisition (or development) of any other pieces. After that, the money doesn't matter. (And limiting the years, whether it be nine months ago or now, was never going to be an option for a pitcher of this caliber living the free agent life.)
It is what it is. We now know the Red Sox genuinely want the player. Now it's time to find out if the feeling is mutual.
It isn't yet certain which team did what when wooing Lester. But what we can grasp -- thanks to what knowledge we have of Henry's visit late last week - is that this wasn't going be the "we tried, but …" kind of approach the Red Sox have presented in the past.
It might not be enough. It wasn't after the 2008 season when Mark Teixeira soaked in the Sox' adulation before getting tattooed with pinstripes for eight years. And maybe -- because of love, comfort or money -- this negotiation will result in similar disappointment for the Red Sox once again.
But if the Red Sox do extend themselves just enough to haul in Lester, the March debacle shouldn't really be a talking point. They kept the player while seemingly not affecting the acquisition (or development) of any other pieces. After that, the money doesn't matter. (And limiting the years, whether it be nine months ago or now, was never going to be an option for a pitcher of this caliber living the free agent life.)
It is what it is. We now know the Red Sox genuinely want the player. Now it's time to find out if the feeling is mutual.
[SIZE=10.5pt]Can somebody translate? Who thought who was impressive? What does impressive even mean in this context? Is it a typo and Bowden meant impressed? That makes more sense, but even then I wonder who was impressed with whom?[/SIZE]IpswichSox said:
Buster from behind the paywall
They don’t really accept team offers, one club official noted. They determine what they believe to be a fair market price and then challenge the clubs to meet it, dangling a number. In the current circumstances, of Lester being pursued by big market teams, you might think of the Levinsons the way you would someone holding a treat over a dog that leaps repeatedly, while saying, You can get it, Sparky! You can get it! Just a little higher!
Except in this case, there are four leaping dogs. And by the time it’s over, all will be exhausted, only one happily.
Early in the process, the perception of the target to reach -- the place that those involved thought the Levinsons wanted them to aim for -- was $150 million. But there’s no telling where that is, now that the Dodgers are involved, either to grab Lester for themselves or to push the division rival Giants. And according to USA TODAY’s Bob Nightengale, the Giants met with the Levinsons late into the night here in their effort to snag the best available left-handed starting pitcher.
The Red Sox want Lester back and owner John Henry traveled to make a personal appeal Saturday, but it’s unclear whether that pitch included an offer upgrade close enough to what the Levinsons have dangled.
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I would imagine the price they want is the 7 155 Tanaka got.
They don’t really accept team offers, one club official noted. They determine what they believe to be a fair market price and then challenge the clubs to meet it, dangling a number. In the current circumstances, of Lester being pursued by big market teams, you might think of the Levinsons the way you would someone holding a treat over a dog that leaps repeatedly, while saying, You can get it, Sparky! You can get it! Just a little higher!
Except in this case, there are four leaping dogs. And by the time it’s over, all will be exhausted, only one happily.
Early in the process, the perception of the target to reach -- the place that those involved thought the Levinsons wanted them to aim for -- was $150 million. But there’s no telling where that is, now that the Dodgers are involved, either to grab Lester for themselves or to push the division rival Giants. And according to USA TODAY’s Bob Nightengale, the Giants met with the Levinsons late into the night here in their effort to snag the best available left-handed starting pitcher.
The Red Sox want Lester back and owner John Henry traveled to make a personal appeal Saturday, but it’s unclear whether that pitch included an offer upgrade close enough to what the Levinsons have dangled.
/
I would imagine the price they want is the 7 155 Tanaka got.
phenweigh said:
The plain grammatical sense is that Posey was impressive. And it seems like a pretty clear inference that Lester and his team were the ones being impressed, since there'd be no reason for the Giants brass to be impressed or for anyone to care if they were.
I thought a reasonable interpretation was if Lester was impressive to Posey there would be reason for the Giants to increase their offer. I think my main mistake was giving a damn about a tweet, but regardless I appreciate the responses. Carry on.Savin Hillbilly said:
Was anyone in the room when JH and JL spoke who can tell us just what was said? If not then it is all speculation.
Has a player *ever* gone to meet with a prospective free agent where it's later reported that the free agent didn't like the guy or that it went badly? A player who's been around as long as Lester knows that every team has great guys and every team has not-great guys, and members of the latter group won't be on the recruting tour.
"Things were going fine for the Orioles in their pursuit of Lester until Luke Scott told the lefty that his cancer was a sign that he didn't really believe in God."
"The Cardinals appeared to have the inside track until AJ Pierzynski appeared in the conference room to greet Lester and tell him how much he looked forward to catching him in St. Louis in 2015."
"Things were going fine for the Orioles in their pursuit of Lester until Luke Scott told the lefty that his cancer was a sign that he didn't really believe in God."
"The Cardinals appeared to have the inside track until AJ Pierzynski appeared in the conference room to greet Lester and tell him how much he looked forward to catching him in St. Louis in 2015."
Here's what concerns me about the Lester situation: He clearly isn't motivated by squeezing out the last dollar, and all finalists are likely to be relatively comparable financially. Lester already has two rings. In addition to being on a competitive team generally and playing meaningful games in September and October, what's in Lester's personal interest during the term of his next contract? What's his ultimate goal?
Cooperstown. What deal satisfies Lester financially, ensures as much as one can that the team will be playing meaningful late-season games, and also best positions Lester to put up the kind of numbers that make HoF discussion realistic at the end of the contract? To me, that's clearly San Francisco. Pitching in the National League is best-case scenario from a pitchers' perspective with the shortened lineups and the big ballparks, especially in the NL West. Plus he and his wife likely spent an inordinate amount of time in San Francisco last summer, so they've likely established some level of familiarity with the area.
I have no idea whether Lester values this goal or thinks similarly, but if I'm Seth Levinson, I'm pitching Lester on which contract offers the best glide path for Cooperstown.
Cooperstown. What deal satisfies Lester financially, ensures as much as one can that the team will be playing meaningful late-season games, and also best positions Lester to put up the kind of numbers that make HoF discussion realistic at the end of the contract? To me, that's clearly San Francisco. Pitching in the National League is best-case scenario from a pitchers' perspective with the shortened lineups and the big ballparks, especially in the NL West. Plus he and his wife likely spent an inordinate amount of time in San Francisco last summer, so they've likely established some level of familiarity with the area.
I have no idea whether Lester values this goal or thinks similarly, but if I'm Seth Levinson, I'm pitching Lester on which contract offers the best glide path for Cooperstown.
He'd have to seriously turn on the jets for a string of years to even have a sniff of Cooperstown. Like better than any year he's ever had, repeated several times. I don't think it's realistic, and while I'm no mind-reader, I don't think it's part of Lester's thought process.
One of his comparables on Baseball Reference through age 30 is Andy Pettitte. I don't think it's out of the question that Lester could put together a second half of his career similar to Pettitte's. Pettitte certainly has a sniff of Cooperstown.The Allented Mr Ripley said:
Enrique Rojas/ESPN @Enrique_Rojas1 1m1 minute agoUnited States
Reporta @Buster_ESPN que "La Decisión" de Jon Lester podría ocurrir entra esta noche y mañana. #Giants presionando. #RedSox favorito
"Giants pressing; Red Sox favorites"
Reporta @Buster_ESPN que "La Decisión" de Jon Lester podría ocurrir entra esta noche y mañana. #Giants presionando. #RedSox favorito
"Giants pressing; Red Sox favorites"
67WasBest said:
True, but Lester will not have the kind of transcendent rate stats or utterly dominating peak that Pedro did. He's going to have to get in there on longevity and consistency (and rings). I think he needs 250 wins. If he can pitch till he's 40 and decline slowly, he's got an outside shot at that.
RedOctober3829 said:
I've got to say, that's a great angle. Assuming there's no major difference between the offers (says $10 mil), this thing becomes about history, about legacy. About going halfsies on Pizzas anywhere in New England. The only place that provides anything close is the Cubs. Anywhere else, you're just a high-priced free agent. In Boston or Chicago, you have a shot at becoming an icon. If you're Lester, you've got something there to think about. Not an easy decision for him. Now if somebody goes to 7 years (and I hope it's not the Sox), all that is moot.
Good overall situation -- strong team, a manager that pitchers seem to love, great signal caller in Posey, an incumbent ace to take the pressure off, great town (to be rich in), all the benefits of a rabid fanbase when things are good with less downside when things aren't (compared to Boston), closer to home without seeing mom & dad every day, and the chance to pad out his stats pitching in a very friendly park. Also, lots of money, obviously.Rudy Pemberton said:
No doubt Pedro will always be an outlier, he was so damn good. What Jaffe is getting at is the 300 wins is about done as a standard and it takes a guy like Pedro to open people's eyes to the need to develop a new wins standard for the way baseball is played today. Your number of 250 sounds right.Savin Hillbilly said:
250? He only needs 193 to be the winningest pitcher in Red Sox history. If he signs for six years with the Sox, he'll have to average about 14 wins per season to hit that mark.Savin Hillbilly said:
67WasBest said:
Or we could just stop using wins as a standard at all because they are a junk stat. Obviously there are plenty of current HOF voters who will never move beyond using wins, but by the time Lester retires and becomes eligible for HOF ballots a lot of those guys will have died off and been replaced by younger voters that will hopefully be more cognizant of what statistics are actually worthwhile in evaluating players.
I feel like it's so hard to know...with so little information available, it's easy to overread/see more than may be there (I know I do this). I do know that this wait is pretty brutal.manny said:
I think that's at the root of the Olney voting strike. Develop a real criteria, get rid of the dinosaurs that haven't watched a game in 20 years, and bring in the new breed of analytic people with a real passion for the game.derekson said:
Just sayin'...
Gordon Edes @GordonEdes now
Jemile Weeks cleared waivers and was outrighted to Triple-A Pawtucket Sox roster now at 39
Gordon Edes @GordonEdes now
Jemile Weeks cleared waivers and was outrighted to Triple-A Pawtucket Sox roster now at 39
Maybe it's nothing but I read on rotoworld that the Sox just outrighted Weeks to clear a 40 man spot. This would seem odd unless something might be occurring.
3 days ago was the same day as "The Meeting". Curious to do this now as opposed to having an agreement already in place to sign someone.TomRicardo said:
Jon Heyman @JonHeymanCBS 4m4 minutes ago
interested parties believe the eagerly awaited lester call could come as early as tomorrow #redsox #cubs #SFGiants #dodgers
interested parties believe the eagerly awaited lester call could come as early as tomorrow #redsox #cubs #SFGiants #dodgers
Actually, I believe that "interested parties" refers to the teams making offers. They have been given to understand that Lester will decide by tomorrow. Then again, he may not, damn him.joe dokes said:
Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal 42s42 seconds ago
Sources: Barring late change, Lester choosing between #Cubs, #SFGiants.
Sources: Barring late change, Lester choosing between #Cubs, #SFGiants.
Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal 28s28 seconds ago
Sources: Barring late change, Lester choosing between #Cubs, #SFGiants.
And there it is.
Sources: Barring late change, Lester choosing between #Cubs, #SFGiants.
And there it is.
Time to move on. I just hope no one blames the Panda signing if SF finds the cash to sign him. But they will....
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