Kyrie Irving traded to Celtics for IT, Crowder, Zizic, BKN 1st, 2020 2nd

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mauf

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You can't hear something say something so fundamentally wrong and then say, "Eh, what's the biggie, won't change his jump shot?"
You need to work on your compartmentalization skills.

I'm not going proclaim Kyrie an unappreciated genius or anything, but he meets my "not a serial rapist" standard for sports fandom.
 

luckiestman

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You need to work on your compartmentalization skills.

I'm not going proclaim Kyrie an unappreciated genius or anything, but he meets my "not a serial rapist" standard for sports fandom.

I love that it's "serial rapist" and not just rapist. Kobe? Ok. Big Ben? Pass.
 

nighthob

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This is utterly absurd. You should care if Kyrie thinks the earth is flat. Everyone should care. If he really does believe this, it would be an abomination and while it really doesn't have an effect on his basketball skills, it will have an effect on his fans. Like we need more idiots walking around just making up their own facts?

You can't hear something say something so fundamentally wrong and then say, "Eh, what's the biggie, won't change his jump shot?"
Irving isn't a something, and as I generally don't consult professional athletes on matters of astrophysics, I just don't care whether or not he really believes the earth is flat or if he's just trolling everyone.

I mean if I have to get outraged about people believing stupid things, I would be in a 24/7 rage over the tens of millions of Americans that believe that the CIA blew up the World Trade Center and that the Russian government is trying to conquer the world.
 

johnmd20

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Irving isn't a something, and as I generally don't consult professional athletes on matters of astrophysics, I just don't care whether or not he really believes the earth is flat or if he's just trolling everyone.

I mean if I have to get outraged about people believing stupid things, I would be in a 24/7 rage over the tens of millions of Americans that believe that the CIA blew up the World Trade Center and that the Russian government is trying to conquer the world.
It's not astro physics. It's a centuries old fact.

Anyway, Mauf is right, there are a lot of idiots out there. And you are right, there are a lot of conspiracy psychos out there, too. Something feels worse about a player with a platform like Kyrie saying something so stupid, but I'll just add the stupidity to the list.
 

lovegtm

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The outrage in this thread at a basketball player believing something that's not true makes me want to become a flat-earther myself--seems pretty fun.
 

nighthob

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It's not astro physics. It's a centuries old fact.
It's a billions of years old fact. If you're referring to how long humans have understood that the world is round, that understanding is 23-24 centuries old, and was empirically demonstrated about a century after that when a mathematician (Eratosthenes) devised a very clever way to estimate the circumference of the globe (and got remarkably close to the real total).

The flat earth stuff is mostly a creation of a 19th century American storyteller whose work got re-used, in ways that probably would have horrified him, at the end of the century by a couple of polemicists looking to convince people that 15th century Europe was stupid because it was full of Catholics.

The punchline of the Columbus story was that the Spanish college of cardinals was right when they told him he would never reach India sailing west, although due to being from Southern Europe, they weren't aware of the giant land mass between Europe & East Asia, they were just going on a rough estimate of the distance given the globe's circumference.
 

luckiestman

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The outrage in this thread at a basketball player believing something that's not true makes me want to become a flat-earther myself--seems pretty fun.

It is flat, but you have to be careful who you share that info with.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Yeah, but it was very very dumb
It was only dumb if Ainge knew he could include Crowder's salary in another deal yet choose to send him to Utah for nothing thus costing him an additional player to make the Kyrie.....which apparently was being discussed (and I took heat for suggesting his value was a 2nd rounder, heh!). We know that Crowder talked with Ainge about the direction of the team after Ainge drafted Tatum and traded for Hayward and we know that after that conversation there was talk of Crowder going to Utah for nothing in return prior to him being a thrown into the Kyrie/Nets pick deal with Isaiah and Zizic to make salaries work.
 

the moops

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Crowder wasn't just a throw in though. If the Celtics had a shitty player making 6 million dollars and tried to include that shitty player instead, the Cavs say no and deal doesn't happen.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Crowder wasn't just a throw in though. If the Celtics had a shitty player making 6 million dollars and tried to include that shitty player instead, the Cavs say no and deal doesn't happen.
Of course he was just as Isaiah was as an injured expiring contract and Zizic was although he has some upside to them as a Tristen replacement long-term. The deal was for the Brooklyn pick and Ainge needed salaries to make the deal work....that is the very definition of a throw-in. If Ainge didn't know that an opportunity was going to be available to utilize his contract he very well could have been given to Utah to accommodate his trade request.
 

nighthob

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It was only dumb if Ainge knew he could include Crowder's salary in another deal yet choose to send him to Utah for nothing thus costing him an additional player to make the Kyrie.....which apparently was being discussed (and I took heat for suggesting his value was a 2nd rounder, heh!). We know that Crowder talked with Ainge about the direction of the team after Ainge drafted Tatum and traded for Hayward and we know that after that conversation there was talk of Crowder going to Utah for nothing in return prior to him being a thrown into the Kyrie/Nets pick deal with Isaiah and Zizic to make salaries work.
Boston didn't trade for Hayward, they signed him. There were Utah basketball writers that said, "Wouldn't it be swell if Boston did a sign & trade and gave us Jae Crowder?", but I doubt that it was ever discussed.

Because in the end they could trade Bradley for a longer version of Jae Crowder and then use Crowder as part of the package to get Irving. And the Cavs needed a player like Crowder to make their last hurrah viable.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Boston didn't trade for Hayward, they signed him. There were Utah basketball writers that said, "Wouldn't it be swell if Boston did a sign & trade and gave us Jae Crowder?", but I doubt that it was ever discussed.

Because in the end they could trade Bradley for a longer version of Jae Crowder and then use Crowder as part of the package to get Irving. And the Cavs needed a player like Crowder to make their last hurrah viable.
You don't think that deal gets done without Jae Crowder? That's insane. The Cavs are so dependent on Crowder that they were engaging with the Knicks to bring in Carmelo and his massive contract to take his place as the first forward off the bench.
 

nighthob

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The Cavs likely want to hold on to their franchise, which means trying to acquire one of his friends, because they really don't have another path to doing that (unless, of course, OKC makes it to the WCF and shows well enough that they're able to keep their big three together, that could conceivably throw a huge spanner into the works for Magic).

So, no, it doesn't shock me that they would try to combine some of their deals to get Anthony to start across from LBJ so that they could then turn to trying to deal Love for a G to give them a chance against Golden State in the finals.

However, in case you missed it, the Terminator can no longer dominate both ends of the floor 40 minutes a night. So, yes, they were actually desperate for a 3&D forward to shoulder some of that burden for James, and whether you want to admit it or not, Crowder is one of the best 3&D guys out there.

Lil' Zeke? He was absolutely just there to match salaries since apparently no one knows what he's going to look like when he gets back. But Crowder is pretty good and is going to be a real bonus for the Cavs in their last hurrah. And likely beyond as they try to replicate Boston's rebuilding strategy (although the eastern conference might do them dirty in that regard).
 

Rough Carrigan

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It's not astro physics. It's a centuries old fact.

Anyway, Mauf is right, there are a lot of idiots out there. And you are right, there are a lot of conspiracy psychos out there, too. Something feels worse about a player with a platform like Kyrie saying something so stupid, but I'll just add the stupidity to the list.
Getting upset that someone believes something you think is wrong but would have to acknowledge is harmless is a little bit childish.
 

seltix

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i know i read someone's posting here back when kyrie was first acquired, that referenced an article where irving basically admits his "flat earth" statement was his way of proving how skewed the media's focus is when it comes to covering things that are actually important. but here's another quick example of him pretty much admitting that he's not a science moron and his point was to get people to engage in discussions and realize that it's ok for people to not believe the same things you do.

 

mcpickl

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Of course he was just as Isaiah was as an injured expiring contract and Zizic was although he has some upside to them as a Tristen replacement long-term. The deal was for the Brooklyn pick and Ainge needed salaries to make the deal work....that is the very definition of a throw-in. If Ainge didn't know that an opportunity was going to be available to utilize his contract he very well could have been given to Utah to accommodate his trade request.
Zero percent chance that was ever going to happen, and you reiterating it over and over won't make it so.

Ainge wouldn't give away an asset for nothing, and no matter how much you dislike Crowder he was a real asset.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Zero percent chance that was ever going to happen, and you reiterating it over and over won't make it so.

Ainge wouldn't give away an asset for nothing, and no matter how much you dislike Crowder he was a real asset.
I've yet to see any evidence that the Celtics were planning to trade Crowder to acquire Hayward.
It wouldn't have been for nothing it would have freed up cap space but the opportunity to move Bradley and other moves made this a non-issue. If it came down to Ainge signing Hayward needing Crowder to be included in a sign-n-trade do either of you truly feel Ainge passes on Hayward?
 

nighthob

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No, I don't think that Ainge would have given one of the best 3&D guys in the NBA away for nothing. Because there were teams under the cap that would have paid a draft pick for him if nothing else.

I'd say in retrospect that it appears that Ainge went looking around for a big forward that could function in Boston's defense and made the best deal they could while reducing the payroll enough to sign their second rounders and Hayward.
 

the moops

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Yea, I can't buy this whole thing that the trade was basically BRK pick + matching salary filler for Kyrie Irving. Because if that was the case, there would have been a far more creative way for Ainge to get that salary filler and an asset in some three way trade scenarios.
 

mauf

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Yea, I can't buy this whole thing that the trade was basically BRK pick + matching salary filler for Kyrie Irving. Because if that was the case, there would have been a far more creative way for Ainge to get that salary filler and an asset in some three way trade scenarios.
Yeah, that's too pithy. The Cavs had two motives: to get someone for Kyrie whom they could present as a plausible second banana to LBJ, and to lay the groundwork for their next rebuild if, as expected, LBJ leaves Cleveland after the season. The C's were the only team able to deliver both. And that's why Danny knew the Cavs weren't going to walk away, even if you believe (as I do) that there was a legitimate difference of opinion over IT's health -- LeBron and Lue likely would've preferred to have the Cavs rescind the trade and move Kyrie to Phoenix for Bledsoe and a protected pick, but from the Cleveland FO's perspective that didn't cover the rebuild scenario nearly as well.
 

JakeRae

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Yeah, that's too pithy. The Cavs had two motives: to get someone for Kyrie whom they could present as a plausible second banana to LBJ, and to lay the groundwork for their next rebuild if, as expected, LBJ leaves Cleveland after the season. The C's were the only team able to deliver both. And that's why Danny knew the Cavs weren't going to walk away, even if you believe (as I do) that there was a legitimate difference of opinion over IT's health -- LeBron and Lue likely would've preferred to have the Cavs rescind the trade and move Kyrie to Phoenix for Bledsoe and a protected pick, but from the Cleveland FO's perspective that didn't cover the rebuild scenario nearly as well.
They are trying to win a title this year. Jae Crowder helps them do that. IT might. They are also gearing up for a potential rebuild. The pick and Zivic help them do that too, although Zivic is probably mainly salary filler who didn't have enough independent value to hold up the deal to try to get something for him plus a true filler contract.
 

JCizzle

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i know i read someone's posting here back when kyrie was first acquired, that referenced an article where irving basically admits his "flat earth" statement was his way of proving how skewed the media's focus is when it comes to covering things that are actually important. but here's another quick example of him pretty much admitting that he's not a science moron and his point was to get people to engage in discussions and realize that it's ok for people to not believe the same things you do.

And the final nail in the coffin

 

djbayko

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benhogan

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Riiiiiiight.

Again, it goes back to this podcast. Just listen to it. If you think this is an elaborate troll, then I don't know what to say. He's a conspiracy theorist who was called out by the media and embarrassed in public, so now he's twisting it into something else.
http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/features/road-trip-170217
After 5 minutes of RJ and Channing I got a migraine, unlistenable drivel.

Long story short, Kyrie doesn't believe the earth is flat.

next up: Kyrie proves he won't continue to be an ISO player that can't play D under Brad's system.
 

lovegtm

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Riiiiiiight.

Again, it goes back to this podcast. Just listen to it. If you think this is an elaborate troll, then I don't know what to say. He's a conspiracy theorist who was called out by the media and embarrassed in public, so now he's twisting it into something else.
http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/features/road-trip-170217
Based on his recent interviews, he doesn't seem at all the type of person who feels strong public embarrassment.
 

djbayko

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Based on his recent interviews, he doesn't seem at all the type of person who feels strong public embarrassment.
Embarrassed was probably the wrong word. He's clearly trying to deflect for whatever reason. Perhaps he knows that trying to change everyone's mind about the geometry of Earth is futile :)
 

soxfan121

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Or, you are wrong. Having listened to, and read, all of his comments on the shape of the planet, I'm 365% convinced he was fucking around. He thinks he's deep, and very smart, and he's talking shit with fake sincerity. "Elaborate troll" probably gives him too much credit. This is probably more accurately described as pompous douchery. But funny, if looked at from the right angle.
 

luckiestman

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Or, you are wrong. Having listened to, and read, all of his comments on the shape of the planet, I'm 365% convinced he was fucking around. He thinks he's deep, and very smart, and he's talking shit with fake sincerity. "Elaborate troll" probably gives him too much credit. This is probably more accurately described as pompous douchery. But funny, if looked at from the right angle.

If trolling is outlawed, only outlaws will troll. I haven't owned a players shoe since shaq pumps around 95. I am going to get some Kyries to celebrate and honor a fellow flat earther.
 

mcpickl

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It wouldn't have been for nothing it would have freed up cap space but the opportunity to move Bradley and other moves made this a non-issue. If it came down to Ainge signing Hayward needing Crowder to be included in a sign-n-trade do either of you truly feel Ainge passes on Hayward?
No.

There is no scenario where Ainge would've ever needed to include Crowder in a sign and trade for Hayward. Ainge had many assets to choose from (Bradley, Crowder, Smart) that he could trade for value and get cap space. You don't burn an asset for cap space when you don't have to. Really bad business.
 
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