Kraft Again Passed Over by HOF

[RobertS975]

Robert Kraft has once again failed to be a HoF finalist despite being on the short list. The fact that Jerry Jones has been in the HoF for years but not Robert Kraft is a bit of a travesty IMO.

https://www.masslive.com/patriots/2023/08/patriots-owner-robert-kraft-passed-over-for-hall-early-innovator-gets-nod.html

This article claims that Kraft's candidacy lost momentum with the Florida massage parlor incident.

https://www.masslive.com/patriots/2023/08/why-isnt-robert-kraft-in-the-hall-of-fame-heres-everything-we-know.html

 

[wilked]

I remember this graphic from some years back, which I think goes some way toward explaining the above

 

[Rick Burlesons Yam Bag]

To be honest, I think that Jones' inclusion in the HoF hurts every other owners' odds of getting into the Hall while they are alive. I think everyone is embarrassed by Jones being there.

While it would be nice for Kraft to get in while he is alive, in a decade all of the various controversies around the team should have long since faded, the post-Brady stuff will have gone away and it will just be a focus on what he acheived.

 

[Rick Burlesons Yam Bag]

I remember this graphic from some years back, which I think goes some way toward explaining the above

Damn. Vermont is cold.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Damn. Vermont is cold.

Vermont and NH have tons of Giants fans, although why that would lead them to root for the Eagles in the SB is beyond me.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Damn. Vermont is cold.

Somebody needs to explain North Dakota to me.

 

[nayrbrey]

Somebody needs to explain North Dakota to me.

It’s related to Wentz (went to college in NDak) being benched if I recall correctly.

 

[BigSoxFan]

It’s related to Wentz (went to college in NDak) being benched if I recall correctly.

Ha. Now THAT'S cold. Well done, ND, well done.

 

[axx]

How many people do you expect to put in the HOF because of #12?

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Honestly? Not all that many. Kraft, BB, Seymour is in already, as is Ty Law. Randy Moss is in but his MIN career was likely enough for that. Same with Revis and the Jets.

Tedy and Rodney won't be in. Neither will Edelman.

 

[Dogman]

North Dakota sucks. Not for rooting against the Eagles, but for every other reason.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Honestly? Not all that many. Kraft, BB, Seymour is in already, as is Ty Law. Randy Moss is in but his MIN career was likely enough for that. Same with Revis and the Jets.

Tedy and Rodney won't be in. Neither will Edelman.

Would add Gronk to the list of those making it because of TB12. But, yeah, the list will be much smaller than you'd assume given the team's success. Like, there needs to be a Super HOF for guys like Brady given how much of a greater impact he had than other HOF members.

 

[Kliq]

Yeah the only sure thing besides TB 12 and BB is Gronk.

I could see decades from now, guys like Matt Light and Harrison getting looks. People will look back at the dominance of the Patriots and some guys might sneak in through the veteran's committee or whatever. The great teams like the 70s Steelers and 60s Packers have some pretty meh players by HoF standards (looking at you, Lynn Swann).

 

[InstaFace]

It’s related to Wentz (went to college in NDak) being benched if I recall correctly.

Wow I was going to guess a Vinatieri connection. That's even sillier.

Kraft deserves to be in the football HOF the way Michael Eisner deserves to be in a business HOF - they don't, it shouldn't even be a thing. They very ably managed the business decisions that were in front of them, empowered the right people, and as a result made a lot of money for themselves and their business partners. Kraft didn't innovate with the game, didn't save it from a crisis, he negotiated some great TV deals and had the smarts to get the F out of the way of the greatest football coach ever and not micromanage. His greatest service to the game, therefore, was an act of omission, not of commission. Hall of Fame? WTF. He's a great owner, a model owner in every respect except keeping his 85yo pants up. He deserves enshrinement in Canton about as much as Yammer does. Honestly given Yammer's youth football coaching in a tough environment for youth sports, it's probably clear-cut for him over Kraft. Let's put John Henry in Cooperstown, he won some titles too! Led the league in "not fucking up a great roster".

They'll put Kraft in eventually. I won't give a shit then, either, and will still think it kind of a cheapening of what it's for. But it'll be funny to see if a crowd shows up to cheer him. Who's gonna plan a trip to Ohio to cheer an ancient billionaire who never suited up or prowled the sideline for your team? Nobody, that's who.

 

[Saints Rest]

Honestly? Not all that many. Kraft, BB, Seymour is in already, as is Ty Law. Randy Moss is in but his MIN career was likely enough for that. Same with Revis and the Jets.

Tedy and Rodney won't be in. Neither will Edelman.

Gronk.
Maybe Mankins.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Would add Gronk to the list of those making it because of TB12. But, yeah, the list will be much smaller than you'd assume given the team's success. Like, there needs to be a Super HOF for guys like Brady given how much of a greater impact he had than other HOF members.

Oh of course, Gronk will be in. But he was a legit superstar. There will not be a rush to put in mere very good players from those Pats teams. Seymour had to wait longer than he should have and he was a superstar himself.

 

[Rick Burlesons Yam Bag]

It’s related to Wentz (went to college in NDak) being benched if I recall correctly.

He wasn't benched for the SB. He was injured. That was his "should have been an MVP" season.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Gronk.
Maybe Mankins.

Mankins will be held back by not having any rings. Fairly or not. His worst two games as a pro were those 2 SBs. That will be held against him which is fair.

 

[Rick Burlesons Yam Bag]

Honestly? Not all that many. Kraft, BB, Seymour is in already, as is Ty Law. Randy Moss is in but his MIN career was likely enough for that. Same with Revis and the Jets.

Tedy and Rodney won't be in. Neither will Edelman.

Wilfork should get in. McGinest would have a strong case I think without looking at numbers.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Wilfork should get in. McGinest would have a strong case I think without looking at numbers.

Willie's recent legal issues will likely prevent that for a very long time if ever.

Vince should get in, but of course nose tackles don't rack up gaudy stats so the voting may not favor him.

 

[Rick Burlesons Yam Bag]

Mankins will be held back by not having any rings. Fairly or not. His worst two games as a pro were those 2 SBs. That will be held against him which is fair.

Mankins would have a tough case. I am not sure he was a top 3 at his position for much of his career, which kind of defines a HoF in my head. He, Matt Light and Dan Koppen were studs who were responsible for a lot of banners and Ws, but I think that they will not get much momentum.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Mankins would have a tough case. I am not sure he was a top 3 at his position for much of his career, which kind of defines a HoF in my head. He, Matt Light and Dan Koppen were studs who were responsible for a lot of banners and Ws, but I think that they will not get much momentum.

Just looking at his bio now, he's got 1 All Pro selection and was part of the "All-2010s" Team. He only played 11 years. He's not Jackie Slater for sure.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Welker is another one who had HOF production for several years but probably not long enough to make the HOF. 5 Pro Bowls and 4 All-Pro, including 2 first team.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

To be honest, I think that Jones' inclusion in the HoF hurts every other owners' odds of getting into the Hall while they are alive. I think everyone is embarrassed by Jones being there.

While it would be nice for Kraft to get in while he is alive, in a decade all of the various controversies around the team should have long since faded, the post-Brady stuff will have gone away and it will just be a focus on what he acheived.

Good point re: Jones. Also, and to your final point, does anyone outside of the owners/execs themselves and people like us really care about which owners/execs are in? Unlike a player or coach, I don’t think an owner’s public rep is affected by their inclusion in the HOF.

 

[Ale Xander]

Vermont and NH have tons of Giants fans, although why that would lead them to root for the Eagles in the SB is beyond me.

Bills and Jets too is why (VT)

 

[Ale Xander]

Somebody needs to explain North Dakota to me.

South Dakota would make sense instead (AV putting the state on the map)

 

[Ale Xander]

Honestly? Not all that many. Kraft, BB, Seymour is in already, as is Ty Law. Randy Moss is in but his MIN career was likely enough for that. Same with Revis and the Jets.

Tedy and Rodney won't be in. Neither will Edelman.

AV?

 

[Kliq]

The NFL Hall of Fame voting is extremely weird and they also never have a weak year given the nature of the game.

Right now there is a HUGE glut of both wide receivers and pass rushers, all of whom have basically the same stats and accomplishments, making it really hard for any of them to get in.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

AV?

Obviously he should be in. But the Hall is weird with kickers.

 

[lexrageorge]

The true "burn it to the ground if they don't get in" category includes Brady, BB, and Gronk. That's probably about it, to be honest.

The "should get in but who knows, could be a while if ever" category includes Wilfork and Adam Vinatieri. "Football people" get weird when it comes to kickers.

I would like to see Kraft get in as a contributor - he has been fairly influential as an owner. But I can see why the committee looks at others who are probably equally if not more worthy of induction.

 

[DanoooME]

The only Hall any owner should be in is the Hall of Lucky Douchenozzles with Money.

 

[Remagellan]

AV?

Obviously he should be in. But the Hall is weird with kickers.

The true "burn it to the ground if they don't get in" category includes Brady, BB, and Gronk. That's probably about it, to be honest.

The "should get in but who knows, could be a while if ever" category includes Wilfork and Adam Vinatieri. "Football people" get weird when it comes to kickers.

I would like to see Kraft get in as a contributor - he has been fairly influential as an owner. But I can see why the committee looks at others who are probably equally if not more worthy of induction.

Vinatieri is absolutely getting in at some point. Even given the weirdness about kickers, he's a "you can't tell the history of this era without him" case.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Vinatieri is absolutely getting in at some point. Even given the weirdness about kickers, he's a "you can't tell the history of this era without him" case.

Yes, but I suspect they'll make him wait for years first. Even as the all time leading scorer with multiple great, memorable kicks to his name, there's such a stigma that kickers aren't real football players that they will make him wait around a while.

Morten Andersen and Jan Stenerud are the only true kickers in the Hall.

 

[Marciano490]

This must really rub Kraft the wrong way.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Kraft's big mistake was getting caught. Irsay should have given him some tips on how to keep mistresses on the side.

 

[Remagellan]

Yes, but I suspect they'll make him wait for years first. Even as the all time leading scorer with multiple great, memorable kicks to his name, there's such a stigma that kickers aren't real football players that they will make him wait around a while.

I agree he will continue to wait, but this is the same crap logic that had people thinking that Ortiz might not make the HoF because he was primarily a DH. The only standard should be "did this player excel at his assigned position in the game?" And in AV's case, that is not only true, he also, like Big Papi, had a historical impact on the game during his career.

 

[nayrbrey]

He wasn't benched for the SB. He was injured. That was his "should have been an MVP" season.

Ah yeah, ACL tears will do that. Thought it was a situation where he couldn’t get his job back after injury. Thanks for the correction.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

I agree he will continue to wait, but this is the same crap logic that had people thinking that Ortiz might not make the HoF because he was primarily a DH. The only standard should be "did this player excel at his assigned position in the game?" And in AV's case, that is not only true, he also, like Big Papi, had a historical impact on the game during his career.

Of course you're right about all of that. But as we know, "should be" has nothing to do with it.

 

[jon abbey]

The only Hall any owner should be in is the Hall of Lucky Douchenozzles with Money.

Kraft is in the Columbia Athletic Hall of Fame solely for donating money later in life, he was barely an athlete in college. So maybe it balances out a bit?

https://gocolumbialions.com/honors/hall-of-fame/robert-k-kraft/143

 

[Rick Burlesons Yam Bag]

Obviously he should be in. But the Hall is weird with kickers.

I think he will make it.

 

[Rick Burlesons Yam Bag]

This must really rub Kraft the wrong way.

This joke will ALWAYS be funny. I get so nervous before my teams' playoff games that I purposefully plan to do dumb, mindless shit.

Bob rolls couple of cocktails, massage, HJ, cocktails, private plane. DBK is in my personal HoF.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

This joke will ALWAYS be funny. I get so nervous before my teams' playoff games that I purposefully plan to do dumb, mindless shit.

Bob rolls couple of cocktails, massage, HJ, cocktails, private plane. DBK is in my personal HoF.

The incident that got him stopped was on the morning of the AFCCG in Kansas City, so he got his Happy Ending then flew to KC. Makes the huge shit-eating grin on stage for the Lamar Hunt trophy stuff even funnier in retrospect.

 

[Rick Burlesons Yam Bag]

I agree he will continue to wait, but this is the same crap logic that had people thinking that Ortiz might not make the HoF because he was primarily a DH. The only standard should be "did this player excel at his assigned position in the game?" And in AV's case, that is not only true, he also, like Big Papi, had a historical impact on the game during his career.

But the logic you are using is stupid too. "Did this person excel at his assigned position" assumes that all players are created equal in terms of ability to influence the outcome of a game, which is incorrect. AV should be in the Hall, but it's because no human has scored more points than him and he came up big in big situations. Gary Andersen and Janikowski - who were probably better kickers than AV (I can't be bothered to research) should not be in the HoF.

 

[Rick Burlesons Yam Bag]

The incident that got him stopped was on the morning of the AFCCG in Kansas City, so he got his Happy Ending then flew to KC. Makes the huge shit-eating grin on stage for the Lamar Hunt trophy stuff even funnier in retrospect.

View attachment 69258

He is also completely shitwrecked at this point. "As Drunk as Bob Kraft accepting an AFC Championship trophy" really should be a thing. I love him so much. I would totally be on the "Hooker, cocktails, Private Jet, many more cocktails, lift trophy" plan if I owned an NFL team.

 

[Marciano490]

The incident that got him stopped was on the morning of the AFCCG in Kansas City, so he got his Happy Ending then flew to KC. Makes the huge shit-eating grin on stage for the Lamar Hunt trophy stuff even funnier in retrospect.

View attachment 69258

Do you think he just preferred the hometown handy, or had he previously determined the KC massage scene wasn’t championship material?

Also, does he starts yelling, “do your job!” as he approached climax?

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Do you think he just preferred the hometown handy, or had he previously determined the KC massage scene wasn’t championship material?

Also, does he starts yelling, “do your job!” as he approached climax?

If it's me, I always go for the handies in Florida over the ones in KC.

BBQ sauce makes for a lousy lube. Er. So I'm told.

 

[Ale Xander]

If it's me, I always go for the handies in Florida over the ones in KC.

BBQ sauce makes for a lousy lube. Er. So I'm told.

New York uses toothpaste so at least KC has that beat

 

[Marciano490]

If it's me, I always go for the handies in Florida over the ones in KC.

BBQ sauce makes for a lousy lube. Er. So I'm told.

Guess it also depends whether you want that steady, pulsing reggaeton handy or more of an improvisational, free form jazz thing.

 

[ShaneTrot]

I just read 'The Dynasty' by Jeff Benedict and although there is a lot of Kraft hagiography in the book, he did make the owners a shit ton of money with the TV networks negotiations, played nice with Deflategate by accepting the punishment instead of suing, and kept the team in NE. I would be OK with him not being in but if Jones is in there Kraft should definitely be in.

 

[Mugsy’s Walk-Off Bunt]

Given everything he's contributed to the NFL owners, especially $$$ and stability, there comes a point where, even with the handy factored in, Kraft's choice not to aggressively fight Deflategate starts to look like a sucker move.