Kemba Walker to Boston

NomarsFool

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He's been much better on the defensive end than advertised, I think. He's excellent at drawing a charge, has quick hand to grab some steals, and plays hard.
 

Bunt Single

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That's what leadership sounds like: not necessarily dramatic or played for dramatic effect, steady, upbeat, drawing in all kinds of team members playing all kinds of roles.
 

Caspir

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He is one of the most upbeat, positive players in the league and it's beating a dead horse at this point, but goodness I wish we had him instead of Kyrie the whole time. This is going to pay off huge for JT/JB as they witness actual veteran leadership in action.
 

tims4wins

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I've said it before but as a Duke fan, it's really hard to believe that I love Kemba and loathe Kyrie, but here we are. Such a fan.
 

128

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I've said it before but as a Duke fan, it's really hard to believe that I love Kemba and loathe Kyrie, but here we are. Such a fan.
I understand why as a Duke fan you'd embrace Tatum, but in general how attached can you really get to one-and-dones, unless their one season ends in a trip to the Final Four (or, better yet, an NCAA title)? They're gone from Durham almost before you get a chance to know them.

I work at an ACC school (Virginia) and travel with its men's basketball team, and I had to look up where Gary Trent Jr. went to college after he went off against the C's in the bubble.
 

tims4wins

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I understand why as a Duke fan you'd embrace Tatum, but in general how attached can you really get to one-and-dones, unless their one season ends in a trip to the Final Four (or, better yet, an NCAA title)? They're gone from Durham almost before you get a chance to know them.

I work at an ACC school (Virginia) and travel with its men's basketball team, and I had to look up where Gary Trent Jr. went to college after he went off against the C's in the bubble.
It's a good point, I absolutely hate one and dones, I barely associate them with the school. I will say I was super hyped about Tatum, because I thought he was the best freshmen to come through Duke that I've seen, and he seems like a very humble, determined dude. But I don't feel much, if any, extra "attachment" to him because of his Duke ties. You're absolutely right. One and done sucks.
 

The Raccoon

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I've said it before but as a Duke fan, it's really hard to believe that I love Kemba and loathe Kyrie, but here we are. Such a fan.
Earlier today I missclicked and found myself on page 2 of this subforum, where the Mr.Chemistry discussion rests untouched since march. I will not believe that it's a coincidence that this thread has exactly 666 posts...! o_O
 

BaseballJones

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It's a good point, I absolutely hate one and dones, I barely associate them with the school. I will say I was super hyped about Tatum, because I thought he was the best freshmen to come through Duke that I've seen, and he seems like a very humble, determined dude. But I don't feel much, if any, extra "attachment" to him because of his Duke ties. You're absolutely right. One and done sucks.
As an SU alum, there's one specific one-and-done that I'm particularly attached to. :)
 

BaseballJones

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I mean it makes sense since you only have one team to hold onto ;) I much prefer the 2001 and 2010 veteran title teams...
Haha that's exactly it. Four final fours that resulted in no titles during my time as a fan - 1987, 1996, 2013, and 2016 - but just the one championship. So yeah, Carmelo's a guy I'll happily take as a one-and-done.
 

benhogan

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Haha that's exactly it. Four final fours that resulted in no titles during my time as a fan - 1987, 1996, 2013, and 2016 - but just the one championship. So yeah, Carmelo's a guy I'll happily take as a one-and-done.
Not only did he win their only Championship, but he went back and wrote a $3MM check for his Athletic Center.

Cuse fans would be remiss if they didn't defend any kind of Melo slander.
 

StuckOnYouk

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Gentlemen, if we're going to talk college basketball in the Kemba thread can we keep it laser-focused on the 4-time national champion UConn Huskies please?

33922
 

nighthob

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It's a good point, I absolutely hate one and dones, I barely associate them with the school. I will say I was super hyped about Tatum, because I thought he was the best freshmen to come through Duke that I've seen, and he seems like a very humble, determined dude. But I don't feel much, if any, extra "attachment" to him because of his Duke ties. You're absolutely right. One and done sucks.
Does Kyrie even qualify as a one and done? Didn't he play like 150 minutes of actual basketball for Duke?

EDIT: And is there any player that demonstrates the flaws of the winshare magic number than Kyrie? Winshares credits him for three wins in 20 games, yet they were a .400 team with him a .520 team without him.
 

IdiotKicker

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Does Kyrie even qualify as a one and done? Didn't he play like 150 minutes of actual basketball for Duke?

EDIT: And is there any player that demonstrates the flaws of the winshare magic number than Kyrie? Winshares credits him for three wins in 20 games, yet they were a .400 team with him a .520 team without him.
Yes, and I’d argue his return in the NCAA tournament that year drastically hurt that Duke team too. They were 32-4, primarily without him for much of the season. It wasn’t an incredibly talented team, but they had Nolan Smith and Kyle Singler as seniors who had won the title the year before, and it was just a very savvy, selfless team that was fairly reminiscent of the 2009-10 team that won it all, just minus Jon Scheyer and Brian Zoubek, who became a rebounding monster in the second half of that year.

With the return of Kyrie, it seemed like no one knew how to play with him, and so the offense stagnated and turned into a lot of iso-ball with him on the court. Now, Irving did have 28 points in the loss to Arizona in the tournament, with most of that coming as he tried to bring them back from a huge deficit in the second half, so I won’t say that loss was his fault. That loss was the fault of Derrick Williams, who put on the best performance of his life In the first half of that game to keep Arizona in it, and earned himself the number 2 pick in the draft that year before doing his best David Tyree impression and contributing minimally during his NBA career.

But yeah, I was not a Kyrie fan even while he was at Duke. He and Austin Rivers were not my favorites, but at least Rivers has the game-winning 3-pointer at Chapel Hill in his favor.
 

SumnerH

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I understand why as a Duke fan you'd embrace Tatum, but in general how attached can you really get to one-and-dones
Are Cory Maggette and Luol Deng the only two Duke one and dones before Kyrie in 2010?

I remember Brand leaving early (after 3 years) being big for Duke at the time, but I don't remember Maggette being a big deal.

That 98-99 Duke squad might be the best college team ever, despite not winning the title.
 

BaseballJones

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Are Cory Maggette and Luol Deng the only two Duke one and dones before Kyrie in 2010?

I remember Brand leaving early (after 3 years) being big for Duke at the time, but I don't remember Maggette being a big deal.

That 98-99 Duke squad might be the best college team ever, despite not winning the title.
Say what???????????
 

BaseballJones

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Gentlemen, if we're going to talk college basketball in the Kemba thread can we keep it laser-focused on the 4-time national champion UConn Huskies please?

View attachment 33922
Despite some really down and awful years lately, UConn still has more titles in the 21st century than anyone. Which is pretty crazy.

Which leads me to the 2014 championship. The way that Calipari coached that Kentucky team in the final was nothing short of - if you'll pardon the expression - criminal. UConn had two guards, Napier and Boatright, who were both 5'10" or smaller (don't believe for a second that Napier was 6'0" tall). Both were lightning quick and real gnats out on the perimeter. Kentucky had two guards, James Young and Andrew Harrison, who were both 6'6" tall, both averaged in double figures. They kept those guys on the perimeter, having them take 13 three pointers during the game (making just 4), and being harassed all game long by the UConn guards. At no point did they try to take Napier and Boatright down low, despite 8-inch size advantages. You don't even have to have any moves. Just post up, turn around, and shoot 7-foot jumpers over them. It's really not that hard.

And they only got 7 shots out of Julius Randle in that game.

Ugh I hate crappy coaching. Calipari didn't change a THING from how Kentucky normally played, even though UConn took them out of their game. Zero adjustments. They just let UConn dictate everything and played right into Connecticut's hands in that game. It was a shameful effort by Calipari.
 

DJnVa

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It's a good point, I absolutely hate one and dones, I barely associate them with the school. I will say I was super hyped about Tatum, because I thought he was the best freshmen to come through Duke that I've seen, and he seems like a very humble, determined dude. But I don't feel much, if any, extra "attachment" to him because of his Duke ties. You're absolutely right. One and done sucks.
Apropos of nothing, I was at the Duke-UVA football game in October 2016 with my buddy that works at Duke and his brother, a UVA alum. As we walked around 2 tall guys walked by. My buddy said "That's our 2 freshman studs--Tatum and Giles".
 

tims4wins

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Apropos of nothing, I was at the Duke-UVA football game in October 2016 with my buddy that works at Duke and his brother, a UVA alum. As we walked around 2 tall guys walked by. My buddy said "That's our 2 freshman studs--Tatum and Giles".
Yeah I saw Giles around a couple times when I was living in Chapel Hill. I thought they were different classes though?

Edit: nope I am wrong
 

bakahump

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Wasnt Giles at one time considered a guy that was going to be some combination of what Tatum is and Zion could become?
 

nighthob

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Wasnt Giles at one time considered a guy that was going to be some combination of what Tatum is and Zion could become?
As a high school player. Then he blew out both knees. I'm pretty sure that he had three operations while still in high school. It's a pity he had such shitty knees, he could have been Garnett 2.0.
 

StuckOnYouk

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Despite some really down and awful years lately, UConn still has more titles in the 21st century than anyone. Which is pretty crazy.

Which leads me to the 2014 championship. The way that Calipari coached that Kentucky team in the final was nothing short of - if you'll pardon the expression - criminal. UConn had two guards, Napier and Boatright, who were both 5'10" or smaller (don't believe for a second that Napier was 6'0" tall). Both were lightning quick and real gnats out on the perimeter. Kentucky had two guards, James Young and Andrew Harrison, who were both 6'6" tall, both averaged in double figures. They kept those guys on the perimeter, having them take 13 three pointers during the game (making just 4), and being harassed all game long by the UConn guards. At no point did they try to take Napier and Boatright down low, despite 8-inch size advantages. You don't even have to have any moves. Just post up, turn around, and shoot 7-foot jumpers over them. It's really not that hard.

And they only got 7 shots out of Julius Randle in that game.

Ugh I hate crappy coaching. Calipari didn't change a THING from how Kentucky normally played, even though UConn took them out of their game. Zero adjustments. They just let UConn dictate everything and played right into Connecticut's hands in that game. It was a shameful effort by Calipari.
UConn's defense as a whole was very good in that tourney. Their last three games they held Michigan State, Florida and Kentucky to 54, 53 and 54 points respectively.

I don't think anyone was beating Shabazz Napier in 2014. He was incredible. He was a freshman when Kemba was the best player in the country in 2011 and then Napier took the mantle three years later.
 

Kliq

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Kemba didn’t shoot the ball the way he wanted to at the end of the series but I’ve been impressed with his defense. In Charlotte he was known as a minus defender, someone who would be picked on and have to be covered for. Well, teams like Toronto are hunting that matchup and Kemba has held his own; he has quick hands, positions himeself well and tries hard. He isn’t a stopped but that matchup hasn’t been as favorable to other teams as they may have imagined.
 

Euclis20

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Kemba didn’t shoot the ball the way he wanted to at the end of the series but I’ve been impressed with his defense. In Charlotte he was known as a minus defender, someone who would be picked on and have to be covered for. Well, teams like Toronto are hunting that matchup and Kemba has held his own; he has quick hands, positions himeself well and tries hard. He isn’t a stopped but that matchup hasn’t been as favorable to other teams as they may have imagined.
He gets some credit, but Stevens' and the Celtics defensive schemes get the majority I think. Their last 3 point guards have been IT, Kyrie and Kemba, three guys whose defense (outside of Boston) has ranged from bad to historically awful, and they've all looked significantly better on D in Boston. Some of this was as expected - in Charlotte he was by far the best offensive player on every team and he needed to save his energy for scoring. Right now he's got 2-3 teammates who are better offensively than anyone he played with in 8 years in Charlotte, he can actually spend some of that energy and effort on defense and rest up on offense occasionally.
 

Seels

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As the season wraps, my prevailing thought is that Kemba isn't very good, and this contract is somewhere between bad and albatross. He just seems to regularly disappear in the 2nd half of games.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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He probably needed knee surgery but the "when will the season resume?" issue prevented him from getting it. I'll wait to see how he recovers before writing him off as an albatross.
 

The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa

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As the season wraps, my prevailing thought is that Kemba isn't very good, and this contract is somewhere between bad and albatross. He just seems to regularly disappear in the 2nd half of games.
Injuries aside, Kemba is probably fine, but he has a lot of mileage on those short legs. They probably need to get him down to about 25mpg with some built in rest days for a long season, even though that's not what he's being paid for.
 

luckiestman

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Kemba started hot and picked up some injuries. At his peak he can score 30 and make it look easy. We haven’t seen that in a long time and he looked bad in the playoffs.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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Kemba’s knee still being an issue after months of COVID delay scares the shit out of me. He’s a taller Cleveland IT4 if he doesn’t have his quickness and he isn’t getting any younger either. Someone, probably @radsoxfan , sounded the alarm bells when it came out that he had a Synvisc injection. It doesn’t seem like things got any better because he was pretty awful for a lot of the Bubble. Hopefully surgery or a full offseason can fix it but three years left on that contract makes me so nervous.
 

ehaz

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If this season was the beginning of the end for Kemba, they’re screwed with that contract.

If it was just a season of having to adjust and dealing with nagging knee injuries that will eventually pass, it’ll be OK despite him being a negative defensively.

I’m really really hoping it’s the second but I’m not super confident.
 

lexrageorge

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If Kemba needs 6-8 months to get over his knee problems, then by all means the team's medical staff should give it to him. There is zero need to rush him back; it's not a "disaster" if he needs to miss games in January, February, and March.
 

luckiestman

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If Kemba needs 6-8 months to get over his knee problems, then by all means the team's medical staff should give it to him. There is zero need to rush him back; it's not a "disaster" if he needs to miss games in January, February, and March.
Sure, but it’s not clear to me that he’s getting better. Same for Hayward.
 

lexrageorge

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Sure, but it’s not clear to me that he’s getting better. Same for Hayward.
Hayward had a broken hand that healed completely, and rushed back from a severe ankle sprain, which will certainly heal completely. Neither are predictive.
 

128

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Sure, but it’s not clear to me that he’s getting better. Same for Hayward.
As was noted in another thread, Hayward's injuries this season (hand and ankle) were total flukes. It's not like he had recurring hamstring issues or degenerative knee problems. He had a strong season overall.
 

Euclis20

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Kemba getting hunted on defense definitely isn't going to get any better, injured or not. That said, it would not be remotely surprising to me if he turns up healthy whenever he's on the court next and is a better offensive player. Interestingly enough he shot 56% from inside the arc in the playoffs, which is excellent (his career high 49%). If he had shot better than 31% from 3, this is a very different conversation.
 

luckiestman

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As was noted in another thread, Hayward's injuries this season (hand and ankle) were total flukes. It's not like he had recurring hamstring issues or degenerative knee problems. He had a strong season overall.
If the rest of the association is as bullish on Hayward as you, he’s not going to opt in. You want to sign him long term?
 

128

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If the rest of the association is as bullish on Hayward as you, he’s not going to opt in. You want to sign him long term?
Not on another max deal, but if a reasonable compromise could be reached, he's a fantastic No. 3 (or No. 4) option when healthy. We saw in Game 3 what he means to this team at both ends of the court.