Kelly to the Bullpen

[Stan Papi Was Framed]

Hadn't seen anything on this, so figured I'd start a thread (apologies if I missed this elsewhere).

Given (a) how frustrating and often simply bad he's been a starter and (b) the tantalizing promise of his stuff, I am intrigued to see how this plays out. If he finds success, he could give a left to a bullpen that has been worked pretty hard and shown some signs of fraying.

Over the Monster describes this as the role Kelly was born to play--hope that's right.

 

[Stan Papi Was Framed]

well, not exactly an encouraging sign…rough outing in Lowell tonight. 1 IP, 4 hits, 2 ER. did get 2 Ks. hopefully just some bad luck on balls not hit so hard…

edit--perhaps soft contact was involved--Ian Cundall of Sox Prospects reports:

Rehabbing Joe Kelly allows 4 weak singles, 2 K's inning of relief. Threw strikes, showed all pitches. FB 92-96, CH 85-86, CB 77-80, SL 82-84

 

[Stan Papi Was Framed]

WEEI's Rob Bradford has some encouraging things to say about Kelly's latest effort out of the bullpen in Lowell

 

[uncannymanny]

Interesting that he decided to go out of the stretch exclusively and found some finish on pitches. I feel like you usually hear it the other way around about guys struggling from the stretch.

 

[Stan Papi Was Framed]

Interesting that he decided to go out of the stretch exclusively and found some finish on pitches. I feel like you usually hear it the other way around about guys struggling from the stretch.

I guess going out of the stretch can be a way to simplify things. I believe most relievers go out of the stretch exclusively, no windup.

 

[absintheofmalaise]

Interesting that he decided to go out of the stretch exclusively and found some finish on pitches. I feel like you usually hear it the other way around about guys struggling from the stretch.

As noted by SPWF, teams have guys try to pitch out of the stretch exclusively in order to simplify their mechanics. More starters are trying a modified stretch, Price is one.That's what the Sox did with Andrew Miller after Valentine noticed that he was much more effective with runners on than he was with the bases empty. For some reason, coaches and players thought that you would lose velocity changing over to the stretch, but that doesn't happen. The main reason for the windup is to confuse the hitter.

 

[Sandy Leon Trotsky]

Why is it called "the stretch"? I've never understood that

 

[uncannymanny]

As noted by SPWF, teams have guys try to pitch out of the stretch exclusively in order to simplify their mechanics. More starters are trying a modified stretch, Price is one.That's what the Sox did with Andrew Miller after Valentine noticed that he was much more effective with runners on than he was with the bases empty. For some reason, coaches and players thought that you would lose velocity changing over to the stretch, but that doesn't happen. The main reason for the windup is to confuse the hitter.

Ah, good note on Price. I was thinking of Buchholz losing his command from the stretch, but he's probably not a good control group

 

[Al Zarilla]

Ah, good note on Price. I was thinking of Buchholz losing his command from the stretch, but he's probably not a good control group

Kelly looks like he's copied Price with the multiple leg twitch before coming to the plate, except of course he's a RHP.

 

[Curt S Loew]

Why is it called "the stretch"? I've never understood that

You could call it "The Set" position if you prefer. It actually makes more sense that way. "The Stretch" is actually only one part of "The Set" position.

From Wiki:

A pitcher is in the set when, with the ball, he stands on, or directly in front of—and touching—the pitching rubber, with his toes pointing toward the side (toward third base for a right-handed pitcher) and his arms apart at his sides. This initial part of the set is called the stretch, because the pitcher usually stretches toward home plate to take signs from the catcher. At this point, the pitcher may make any number of preparatory movements necessary for delivering the pitch. Delivery begins when the pitcher brings his arms together in front of his body (a movement punctuated with a discernible pause). This is called coming set. After coming set, the pitcher takes a step toward home and delivers the pitch. Typically, pitchers from the set use a high leg kick, thus lunging toward home in pitching; a pitcher may instead release the ball more quickly by using the slide step, quickly stepping directly and immediately toward home and pitching. In the set position, the time of pitch is that instant when the pitcher makes a move toward home plate after coming set.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitching_position

 

[luckysox]

I think this has a decent chance at working out well. He closed in college, so it's familiar. He can concentrate on fastball(s)/slider, so less thinking. He can let it loose for an inning at a time and touch 98-100 regularly. If he were just another guy and not the Joe Kelly who has flummoxed us, he is the exact guy DD wants in the bullpen. I hope they approached this with him in a way that helped him feel like they need him there vs. it being a demotion. He has always struck me as a touch squirrelly, like Buch. Gotta have his brain right for this role.

 

[Stan Papi Was Framed]

I think this has a decent chance at working out well. He closed in college, so it's familiar. He can concentrate on fastball(s)/slider, so less thinking. He can let it loose for an inning at a time and touch 98-100 regularly. If he were just another guy and not the Joe Kelly who has flummoxed us, he is the exact guy DD wants in the bullpen. I hope they approached this with him in a way that helped him feel like they need him there vs. it being a demotion. He has always struck me as a touch squirrelly, like Buch. Gotta have his brain right for this role.

I am hopeful--and, in any event, it seems well worth trying. He hasn't worked as a starter, and has had plenty of chances. Even with this team's glaring need for starters, I am interested to see if he can work as a late inning arm. They may have a need there, as well, given Taz's uncertain health status and Koji's troubles this year.

(edit: plus, of course, Kimbrel being out...duh)

 

[Plympton91]

2 IP 1 H, 0 BB, 3 K tonight for Pawtucket. Who does he replace? Who does Pomeranz replace?

Price, Wright, Porcello, Pomeranz, Rodriguez

Going by merit, the first 6 people in the pen should be:

Koji, Zeigler, Barnes, Hembree, Layne, Ross.

To keep Buchholz and promote Kelly, one of Barnes (0.8 HR/9, 4.0 BB/9, 9.0 K/9 on the season; 19 IP, 7 ER, 5 BB, 20 K since June 1), Hembree (0.8 HR/9, 2.5 BB/9, 8.8 K/9 on the season; 15 IP, 3 ER, 4 BB, 17 K since June 1), or Rodriguez has to go back down to AAA.

Is Kelly really likely to be better than Barnes or Hembree is; or to be more trusted in a high leverage situation at this point? Given the continued even worse suck of Rodriguez, Owens, and Elias, can they afford to lose Buchholz? Maybe if Brian Johnson gets to AAA and starts throwing like he did at the beginning of last year?

Then, when Taz comes back, another of them has to go down to AAA.

Kimbrel would be next. Maybe he doesn't come back until rosters expand on September 1st?

 

[Rasputin]

Honestly, I think Buchholz gets traded.

If the Sox eat his 2016 salary, Buchholz would have some value to a team going nowhere that thinks they could fix him.

He would cost them nothing for this season and comes with no obligation beyond this season while offering an entire extra season at a reasonable salary if they can fix him.

I think Oakland would be the perfect candidate. If Buchholz does get fixed, he'd be an excellent trade deadline candidate in 2017.

Of course, this is predicated on Rodriguez pitching well before the break.

We wouldn't get much, a lottery ticket or maybe part of a package to bring in another bullpen arm, but really, who gives a shit? We can't afford to give him the innings he's going to need to get right.

 

[AB in DC]

At least with Ziegler here there's no urgency to make a move.

 

[Soxfan in Fla]

I'd like to see a few more good outings before we rush him back.

 

[Maximus]

Honestly, I think Buchholz gets traded.

If the Sox eat his 2016 salary, Buchholz would have some value to a team going nowhere that thinks they could fix him.

He would cost them nothing for this season and comes with no obligation beyond this season while offering an entire extra season at a reasonable salary if they can fix him.

I think Oakland would be the perfect candidate. If Buchholz does get fixed, he'd be an excellent trade deadline candidate in 2017.

Of course, this is predicated on Rodriguez pitching well before the break.

We wouldn't get much, a lottery ticket or maybe part of a package to bring in another bullpen arm, but really, who gives a shit? We can't afford to give him the innings he's going to need to get right.

I agree. I am convinced DD has seen enough and is going to trade Buch to Oakland or the NL at the deadline for a lottery ticket or part of a bigger package for a lefthanded bullpen arm (Doolittle). Some GM with a good pitching coach will think they can fix him.

 

[YTF]

At least with Ziegler here there's no urgency to make a move.

I'd like to see a few more good outings before we rush him back.

I pretty much agree with the two posts above. Let's make sure Kelly is what we need him to be before rushing him up. Let him achieve some level of consistency and through that consistency a level of comfort and confidence. Given all of the health issue for this pitching staff, the pen may be less than we would like it to be, but seems to be fairly stable at the moment and coming off the All Star break they should be fairly rested. Ziggy, Ross and Koji each completing an uneventful inning last night with a total of 35 pitches thrown. The coming week gives us 2 more games against a poor MFY offense, a day off, 2 at home vs San Fran and then 3 against the Twins. Overall the second half schedule is going to be challenging, but if they can get through this week with a balance of getting guys work without overtaxing the pen, that buys a bit more time to see what Kelly might be able to offer without feeling compelled to rush him back.

 

[PapaSox]

Honestly, I think Buchholz gets traded.

If the Sox eat his 2016 salary, Buchholz would have some value to a team going nowhere that thinks they could fix him.

He would cost them nothing for this season and comes with no obligation beyond this season while offering an entire extra season at a reasonable salary if they can fix him.

I think Oakland would be the perfect candidate. If Buchholz does get fixed, he'd be an excellent trade deadline candidate in 2017.

Of course, this is predicated on Rodriguez pitching well before the break.

We wouldn't get much, a lottery ticket or maybe part of a package to bring in another bullpen arm, but really, who gives a shit? We can't afford to give him the innings he's going to need to get right.

Funny that you say that as I was thinking Pittsburgh and their history of turning pitchers around.

To the thread 's point I think Layne or Ross go down as the rest seem to be doing well or are needed

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

Funny that you say that as I was thinking Pittsburgh and their history of turning pitchers around.

To the thread 's point I think Layne or Ross go down as the rest seem to be doing well or are needed

Ross isn't going anywhere. Layne and Hembree are the guys to go.

 

[geoduck no quahog]

I imagine the final pen will be:

Kimbrel / Ziegler / Uehara / Tazawa / Kelly / Ross / Barnes

Thing is, Buchholz is the 6th starter and no one can predict an injury and no one can say whether Rodriguez will regain his mojo.

With Buchholz gone, insurance is (pick one) Elias, O'Sullivan, Owens ...

If I were another team (particularly in the NL), I'd pick up Buchholz in a heartbeat for very little in return. Like it or not, the guy has a history of success and doesn't appear to be injured. Change of scenery and all that.

On the other hand, keeping Clay in the fold means (a) Rodriguez sucks and is sent down/DL'd or, (b) Barnes is sent down

Everything presents an issue.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Funny that you say that as I was thinking Pittsburgh and their history of turning pitchers around.

The guy responsible for turning those pitchers around left Pittsburgh in the offseason and is now with the Marlins

 

[simplicio]

Ross isn't going anywhere. Layne and Hembree are the guys to go.

I don't think Layne has an option left.

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

I don't think Layne has an option left.

If they lose him, they lose him

 

[Cumberland Blues]

The guy responsible for turning those pitchers around left Pittsburgh in the offseason and is now with the Marlins

Ray Searage is still the pitching coach in Pittsburgh.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

Funny that you say that as I was thinking Pittsburgh and their history of turning pitchers around.

To the thread 's point I think Layne or Ross go down as the rest seem to be doing well or are needed

Maybe in the offseason, but Pittsburgh is only 2.5 out of the WC. They're not going to waste innings trying to rejuvenate Clay.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Ray Searage is still the pitching coach in Pittsburgh.

True, but I was speaking of Jim Benedict. Searage and Benedict both played a part in the process

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/miami-marlins-jim-benedict-pitcher-whisperer-in-front-office-021916

 

[benhogan]

Honestly, I think Buchholz gets traded.

If the Sox eat his 2016 salary, Buchholz would have some value to a team going nowhere that thinks they could fix him.

He would cost them nothing for this season and comes with no obligation beyond this season while offering an entire extra season at a reasonable salary if they can fix him.

I think Oakland would be the perfect candidate. If Buchholz does get fixed, he'd be an excellent trade deadline candidate in 2017.

Of course, this is predicated on Rodriguez pitching well before the break.

We wouldn't get much, a lottery ticket or maybe part of a package to bring in another bullpen arm, but really, who gives a shit? We can't afford to give him the innings he's going to need to get right.

Agree with this sentiment. We've all seen Clay turn it around for months at a time where he pitches like an Ace. I'd like to see what we get from EdRo today before moving Clay. If we get a good/solid EdRo start then moving a fully subsidized Buchholz to a non-contender may net us a reliable LH pen arm. Clay could be a good 'change of scenery/low stress environment' candidate to rebuild his value.

Combine Clay with Robbie Ross Jr (who escaped an Ellsbury double by inches last night) and try to land Abad or Doolittle (probably need to add a minor leaguer to that package).

 

[czar]

Agree with this sentiment. We've all seen Clay turn it around for months at a time where he pitches like an Ace. I'd like to see what we get from EdRo today before moving Clay. If we get a good/solid EdRo start then moving a fully subsidized Buchholz to a non-contender may net us a reliable LH pen arm. Clay could be a good 'change of scenery/low stress environment' candidate to rebuild his value.

Combine Clay with Robbie Ross Jr (who escaped an Ellsbury double by inches last night) and try to land Abad or Doolittle (probably need to add a minor leaguer to that package).

There's a decent possibility Doolittle is out for the season -- out with a sore shoulder and hasn't started even playing catch yet.