Just What is Apex Mountain: Rewatchables discussion thread

The Filthy One

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I'm going to sit this one out, and might have to take a prolonged break from the Rewatchables. All of the hosts are grating on me, so probably best to bail for a bit. I don't think I've loved anything in my life -- not sunshine, not good food and drink, not the feeling of the bed after a lover has just left it -- the way that Bill Simmons loves Leonardo DiCaprio. People talk about his drooling lust for Sydney Sweeney, but it's Leo who really has his heart.
 

Hoya81

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Nobody. Amy Adams is perfect in this role, it should not be recast.

But if it had to be, I would go with Kiera Knightly or Kiersten Dunst.
Knightley in 2002 is probably a stretch. Bend It Like Beckham hadn't come out yet and she was still just 16 going on 17. Leo is 11 years older than her!
 

Marciano490

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Knightley in 2002 is probably a stretch. Bend It Like Beckham hadn't come out yet and she was still just 16 going on 17. Leo is 11 years older than her!
Yeah, no way Leo would date a girl that close in age!
 

Bozo Texino

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Least shocking recasting idea from Simmons for Catch Me If You Can. Scarlett Johansson for Amy Adams.

For the boobz!
Nobody. Amy Adams is perfect in this role, it should not be recast.

But if it had to be, I would go with Kiera Knightly or Kiersten Dunst.
I'm surprised he didn't go with Jenna Jameson.

I'm not going to be the one to do it, but I would LOVE to have some idea as to how many times Bill has opted to recast a woman over a man. How often does he select an actress as a movie's "weak link?" It honestly feels like a genuine statistical phenomenon at this point. It's weird considering men get something like two-thirds of all speaking roles in films.

Amy Adams is perfect in that role - a role that Bill, somehow, "doesn't get?" She's a young, naive woman from a conservative family in the deep south during the 1960's. Nothing about her character is the least bit weird.

I admire him for facilitating the whole thing, but woof - his takes can be flat-out AWFUL.
 
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CantKeepmedown

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Yeah, Bill's confusion with the Adams role was odd. And she was perfect in it. Him wanting a sexy, beautiful younger actress is not surprising.

The most enjoyable part of the pod was the Cruise/Hanks debate. Both have had amazing careers with unbelievable performances, but I think I find myself siding with CR and Sean on this one (Cruise).

And I never knew that James Gadolfini had been originally cast in Hanks role. Would have been great.
 

Shelterdog

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I'm surprised he didn't go with Jenna Jameson.

I'm not going to be the one to do it, but I would LOVE to have some idea as to how many times Bill has opted to recast a woman over a man. How often does he select an actress as a movie's "weak link?" It honestly feels like a genuine statistical phenomenon at this point. It's weird considering men get something like two-thirds of all speaking roles in films.

Amy Adams is perfect in that role - a role that Bill, somehow, "doesn't get?" She's a young, naive woman from a conservative family in the deep south during the 1960's. Nothing about her character is the least bit weird.

I admire him for facilitating the whole thing, but woof - his takes can be flat-out AWFUL.
Mentioned it perhaps more than once but he’s said recast HBC in fight club and replace her with Reese Witherspoon.
 

Mystic Merlin

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Fight club is 1999 so Reese was 23 and doing election and cruel intentions and was yet to appear in legally blond.
No doubt our boy had a certain scene on a ferris wheel in mind when he proposed that re-casting.

Chris and Sean should develop a black list of names Bill isn’t allowed to propose in that segment anymore.
 

Marciano490

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What do you guys think of a Driving Miss Daisy remake but with Sydney Sweeney in the Jessica Tandy role?
 

Vandalman

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The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan are blessed by the New Founding Fathers, who let them purge and cleanse their souls of their takes as they rewatch ‘The Purge,’ starring Ethan Hawke and Lena Headey.
 

Wingack

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Bill and Chris said that it would be a good idea for people killing their bosses to be a storyline on the next season of The Purge TV show.

I am pretty sure that already was a storyline on one of the seasons that they did.
 

Spelunker

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The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan are blessed by the New Founding Fathers, who let them purge and cleanse their souls of their takes as they rewatch ‘The Purge,’ starring Ethan Hawke and Lena Headey.
I'm sure Bill will have some very self aware thoughts on haves and have nots and the state of US wealth.
 

Vandalman

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The Ringer’s Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan are the new barn bosses of the Rainford Juvenile Correctional Facility after revisiting the 1983 crime drama ‘Bad Boys,’ starring Sean Penn, Esai Morales, Eric Gurry, and Clancy Brown.
 

CantKeepmedown

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Jessica Chastain for Lena Headey in the Purge was pretty funny. CR saying that she had just come off an oscar nomination (with a 2nd on the way) and maybe she would need a little more to work with. Bill says fine, how about Sandra Bullock? He just wants A list actors in every role.
 

8slim

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They’ve ruined the whole recasting premise. Simply throwing out random names for random parts is boring and pointless.

It’s much more interesting to talk about (a) the legitimate casting “what if’s” (so-and-so was offered the role and passed, etc) and the potential ramifications of that, and (b) replacing actors who had poor performances in an otherwise rewatchable movie.

But the whole “this person was good but what if we replaced them with this famous actor today who was too young for the role 20 years ago” is dumb.
 

TheGazelle

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On (a), they have a separate "casting what-if's" category where they discuss that element. You're right that (b) should be the real point of the category - Actor X was bad in this role, so let's discuss who would have been better. That leads to good discussions. You're absolutely right that Simmons just re-casting every female part with someone he thinks is hotter (and typically makes no sense) is shitty for lots of reasons.
 

8slim

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On (a), they have a separate "casting what-if's" category where they discuss that element. You're right that (b) should be the real point of the category - Actor X was bad in this role, so let's discuss who would have been better. That leads to good discussions. You're absolutely right that Simmons just re-casting every female part with someone he thinks is hotter (and typically makes no sense) is shitty for lots of reasons.
Oh I know they do casting what-ifs, I just find that a lot of them lead to nothing more than "really? interesting" and it should instead lead to deeper conversations about how that casting would have changed the movie. They do that at times, but often not much deeper than "that would have really changed the movie".
 

TheGazelle

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Oh I know they do casting what-ifs, I just find that a lot of them lead to nothing more than "really? interesting" and it should instead lead to deeper conversations about how that casting would have changed the movie. They do that at times, but often not much deeper than "that would have really changed the movie".
Fair point - they definitely rush over that one too frequently.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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But the whole “this person was good but what if we replaced them with this famous actor today who was too young for the role 20 years ago” is dumb.
I think there could be some interesting discussion involving current actors if the goal of the re-casting segment were a modern reboot/remake involving an entirely new cast. Basically expanding on the "could this be remade as a 10-episode Netflix series" category.
 

johnmd20

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Simmons put Fennessey on ice for the last three episodes now and even Ryan takes a game off despite Adventureland being one of his favorite movies.

How do you not have 3 people in for these episodes? Simmons is an odd, thin skinned duck, so maybe he doesn't like that Ryan and Fennessey make him look dumb and unserious.
 

Remagellan

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Simmons put Fennessey on ice for the last three episodes now and even Ryan takes a game off despite Adventureland being one of his favorite movies.

How do you not have 3 people in for these episodes? Simmons is an odd, thin skinned duck, so maybe he doesn't like that Ryan and Fennessey make him look dumb and unserious.
The real shame is both Sean and Chris have said in the past that this is one of their favorite films. And Sean grew up in the same area as the film's director, Greg Mottola, which makes his absence even more puzzling, since it's based on Greg's life growing up on LI.

(Adventureland is set near Pittsburgh, where Greg went to school (Carnegie Mellon), but the park is based on the Adventureland on Long Island, where Greg grew up and at which he worked during his summers when he was home from CMU.)
 

SidelineCameras

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Simmons put Fennessey on ice for the last three episodes now and even Ryan takes a game off despite Adventureland being one of his favorite movies.

How do you not have 3 people in for these episodes? Simmons is an odd, thin skinned duck, so maybe he doesn't like that Ryan and Fennessey make him look dumb and unserious.
I think this is a bit harsh. He gets defensive, sure, but I think Simmons is OK with getting ribbed by these two specifically.

To me, the biggest F U on this podcast was not putting Philly native Chris Ryan on the "Creed" episode, in part out of payback for Superbowl 52.
 

johnmd20

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I think this is a bit harsh. He gets defensive, sure, but I think Simmons is OK with getting ribbed by these two specifically.

To me, the biggest F U on this podcast was not putting Philly native Chris Ryan on the "Creed" episode, in part out of payback for Superbowl 52.
Simmons had Ryan on to talk NBA and the Sixers after the Super Bowl this year and Bill was just hammering Ryan on the fact that the Eagles lost and Ryan is like, "What is up with you, I thought we were talking NBA."

It's such weird behavior. And also pathetic passive aggressive behavior. When my friends have difficult experiences, the one thing I don't want to do is hammer them for it and twist the knife and make it worse.
 

kenneycb

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You are doing a lot of projecting. Most likely they're fine and there's no nefarious reasons behind not having Ryan on the pod.

Re: Fennessey, there were 5 episodes in a row Fennessey wasn't on between Sideways and Whiplash so this isn't unusual. An unscientific scroll shows Fennessey as being on roughly 1 every 4 or 5 pods. Ryan is on there more frequently.
 

Shelterdog

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You are doing a lot of projecting. Most likely they're fine and there's no nefarious reasons behind not having Ryan on the pod.
I mean who knows? They're all amiable guys whose product is selling podcasts where they seem like friends hanging out, so we don't really know what they think of each other. But Chris is on roughly six hundred podcasts a week, and Sean is on a lot of stuff as well, and they all have busy schedules, so I wouldn't assume that Bill finally realized after 150 pods that Chris and Sean don't respect his movie takes.
 

kenneycb

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We're in broad agreement. @johnmd20 looks at Simmons in the most unfavorable light and here seems to be taking something that happens frequently (Fennessey and/or Ryan not on the Rewatchables for a few episodes) and creating a narrative that fits his dislike of Simmons. I also find the characterization of someone's team losing a Super Bowl a "difficult experience" mildly amusing.
 

Spelunker

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He loves Juliet, and there's a quasi romcom element to Adventureland.
 
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Yakker 4 your Kudos

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I don't read much into it, but recently CR has made pretty cutting jokes about how his termination from The Ringer might go down. Once was on Rewatchables directly to BS, and another to Andy on The Watch.
 

luckiestman

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I also find the characterization of someone's team losing a Super Bowl a "difficult experience" mildly amusing.
I loved that part. Johnny’s ire of good guy Bill is worth it for leading to the unleashing of that comment. I now need a Nantz and Simmons podcast just to see what output it generates from the mad dog.
 

Shelterdog

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I don't read much into it, but recently CR has made pretty cutting jokes about how his termination from The Ringer might go down. Once was on Rewatchables directly to BS, and another to Andy on The Watch.
I was wondering how much you need to pay a guy like Chris Ryan-- he strikes me as someone who could be a very valuable commodity if you were starting a podcast network. He is so so good at his job and I think he has pretty broad appeal.
 

luckiestman

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I was wondering how much you need to pay a guy like Chris Ryan-- he strikes me as someone who could be a very valuable commodity if you were starting a podcast network. He is so so good at his job and I think he has pretty broad appeal.
do we think he doesn’t have equity in the company?
 

Remagellan

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He loves Juliet, and there's a quasi romcom element to Adventureland.
One thing that occurred to me is that we don't know when this were recorded. For instance, if that's the angle Bill took on the movie (haven't listened yet), then one would think that Dobbins would be joining her JAM partner for this. But if they recorded it while Sean and Amanda were busy with their Oscar coverage, that might explain why neither was on this one.
 

Shelterdog

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do we think he doesn’t have equity in the company?
I thought maybe he made good money when spotify bought the ringer--like a cuple million bucks--but have no idea what the form of the compensation was, and no idea what his ongoing compensation is.

Spotify stock is essentially flat from the time the merger was announced evern though it spiked way up during the pandemic.
 

johnmd20

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We're in broad agreement. @johnmd20 looks at Simmons in the most unfavorable light and here seems to be taking something that happens frequently (Fennessey and/or Ryan not on the Rewatchables for a few episodes) and creating a narrative that fits his dislike of Simmons. I also find the characterization of someone's team losing a Super Bowl a "difficult experience" mildly amusing.
So you're suggesting that Simmons posts great podcasts in 2023? And are you suggesting he's not a thin skinned baby? Because he doesn't. And he is. And I was once a humongous Simmons fan. But his podcasts are not good, they are hack and basically the same retreaded conversation 6 consecutive weeks about the MVP award in the NBA. And then on the next pod, Bill will complain people only talk about the MVP and what's the big deal. Simmons subtweets himself.

We're just trying to find the guy who did it.

That said, I probably shouldn't really go on about this, it is kind of dumb as an overall thing. Simmons sucks and it shouldn't matter. Jim Nantz sucks and it absolutely matters because he's unavoidable, especially during the NCAA tourney and The Masters.
 

Spelunker

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One thing that occurred to me is that we don't know when this were recorded. For instance, if that's the angle Bill took on the movie (haven't listened yet), then one would think that Dobbins would be joining her JAM partner for this. But if they recorded it while Sean and Amanda were busy with their Oscar coverage, that might explain why neither was on this one.
We know it's after 2/24 (when S3.1 of Party Down came out, unless Bill watched a screener), but yes, between Oscar coverage and the 3 hour Dark Knight Rises watch-along, Sean, Amanda, and Chris have done plenty of podding lately.

Plus Ryan was a) in the UK for a bit, and b) then isolating in Burbank after catching Covid on that trip.
 

kenneycb

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So you're suggesting that Simmons posts great podcasts in 2023? And are you suggesting he's not a thin skinned baby? Because he doesn't. And he is. And I was once a humongous Simmons fan. But his podcasts are not good, they are hack and basically the same retreaded conversation 6 consecutive weeks about the MVP award in the NBA. And then on the next pod, Bill will complain people only talk about the MVP and what's the big deal. Simmons subtweets himself.

We're just trying to find the guy who did it.

That said, I probably shouldn't really go on about this, it is kind of dumb as an overall thing. Simmons sucks and it shouldn't matter. Jim Nantz sucks and it absolutely matters because he's unavoidable, especially during the NCAA tourney and The Masters.
The only thing I'm suggesting is you don't like Simmons (which you admit) and are creating a narrative that befits your dislike of Simmons to explain why a couple of podcasters you do like are not on a couple of recent episodes. The rest is a strawman and you yelling to the abyss.

And for me, he's background listening. He has a good rapport with the people he podcasts with and I probably listen for that than anything else. I'm usually doing something else so only paying half attention and I don't get too worked about up it. His most interesting pods to me are the ones about media as I find that subject interesting personally and he is basically 3/3 on personally nailing macro trends in the media landscape over the last 25 years (blogging, podcasting in general, and building a website / podcast product).
 

Shelterdog

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And for me, he's background listening. He has a good rapport with the people he podcasts with and I probably listen for that than anything else. I'm usually doing something else so only paying half attention and I don't get too worked about up it. His most interesting pods to me are the ones about media as I find that subject interesting personally and he is basically 3/3 on personally nailing macro trends in the media landscape over the last 25 years (blogging, podcasting in general, and building a website / podcast product).
I think there's a fourth trend he's done well as well--focussing on building a personal brand--which he's been working pretty hard at for more than twenty years. Bill has a strong sense of the image he wants to present (a fun not super serious but sneakily smart guy who knows a lot about sports and 1980s and 90's movies, definitely _not_ a nerd, and by the way he should get all the punch lines), it's worked amazingly well for him, and he's not going to let the shows/podcasts that he's participating in get outside of those lines--and his co-workers also know to play along and not turn the pods he's on into a film geek session.

(Imagine Fennessey unplugged: "Actually Bill I don't think Die Hard is the first modern action movie. Most obviously star wars and indiana jones are earlier and they're modern by almost any standard but there's also a rich tradition of action movies in the 70s like Pelham one two three or friends of eddie coyle which are similarly modern. And of course there are the films of Sam Peckinpah--the action in the wild bunch is still vibrant today. But personally and perhaps suprisingly I think some of the Kurosawa films, particularly seven samurai, are truly modern action films despite being set in feudal japan and filmed in black and white; the clarity of filiming lens, the fluidity of the camera movements make those pieces as modern as anything John McClain said. Bill bill why are you sleeping?"
 
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Spelunker

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I think there's a fourth trend he's done well as well--focussing on building a personal brand--which he's been working pretty hard at for more than twenty years. Bill has a strong sense of the image he wants to present (a fun not super serious but sneakily smart guy who knows a lot about sports and 1980s and 90's movies, definitely _not_ a nerd, and by the way he should get all the punch lines), it's worked amazingly well for him, and he's not going to let the shows/podcasts that he's participating in get outside of those lines--and his co-workers also know to play along and not turn the pods he's on into a film geek session.

(Imagine Fennessey unplugged: "Actually Bill I don't think Die Hard is the first modern action movie. Most obviously star wars and indiana jones are earlier and they're modern by almost any standard but there's also a rich tradition of action movies in the 70s like Pelham one two three or friends of eddie coyle which are similarly modern. And of course there are the films of Sam Peckinpah--the action in the wild bunch is still vibrant today. But personally and perhaps suprisingly I think some of the Kurosawa films, particularly seven samurai, are truly modern action films despite being set in feudal japan and filmed in black and white; the clarity of filiming lens, the fluidity of the camera movements make those pieces as modern as anything John McClain said. Bill bill why are you sleeping?"
You could have just quoted this image from last page :D

 

Spelunker

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Would have been more efficient and productive of me, and funnier, but at least i got to mention kurosawa.
Points to you for successfully imaging a conversation between them that managed to be pretty close to what actually happened.
 

Bongorific

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Even if Sean and/or Chris were unavailable, why did they have to do this one now? I imagine they plan out at least several movies. This is one of my favorite movies and I’m bummed I don’t get to hear Sean and Chris talk about it.

If they do Place Beyond the Pines at some point without Sean I’ll really lose it.
 

Auger34

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So you're suggesting that Simmons posts great podcasts in 2023? And are you suggesting he's not a thin skinned baby? Because he doesn't. And he is. And I was once a humongous Simmons fan. But his podcasts are not good, they are hack and basically the same retreaded conversation 6 consecutive weeks about the MVP award in the NBA. And then on the next pod, Bill will complain people only talk about the MVP and what's the big deal. Simmons subtweets himself.

We're just trying to find the guy who did it.

That said, I probably shouldn't really go on about this, it is kind of dumb as an overall thing. Simmons sucks and it shouldn't matter. Jim Nantz sucks and it absolutely matters because he's unavoidable, especially during the NCAA tourney and The Masters.
I was just about to post here that you used to be a big Simmons defender so the narrative that you just look to poke holes in what he says or just try to shit on him isn’t true. I also used to be a massive Simmons fan. He’s lost his fastball and is the Adam Sandler (Grown Ups/Blended version) of podcasting. He gets paid handsomely to put out fluff with his friends that’s lower quality than it would be if he actually applied himself and tried more. Nothing wrong with that and I am jealous that hecmakes millions to do it but I am also going to call it out.

In regards to the Simmons/Ryan podcast that you mentioned earlier (the one where they are talking about the NBA and then Simmons sucker punches him with Eagles stuff and then tries to make CR keep talking about it) it was 100% weird behavior and CR seemed more ticked off at Bill than I’ve ever heard him before.

I will also say that I don’t think Bill enjoys being “ribbed” by anyone. I think there’s a reason why the only people he podcasts with regularly are basically his employees who only push back or disagree when he says something horrendously stupid. These types of guests allow him to get his takes off and not be pushed which is what he likes now
 

johnmd20

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I was just about to post here that you used to be a big Simmons defender so the narrative that you just look to poke holes in what he says or just try to shit on him isn’t true. I also used to be a massive Simmons fan. He’s lost his fastball and is the Adam Sandler (Grown Ups/Blended version) of podcasting. He gets paid handsomely to put out fluff with his friends that’s lower quality than it would be if he actually applied himself and tried more. Nothing wrong with that and I am jealous that hecmakes millions to do it but I am also going to call it out.

In regards to the Simmons/Ryan podcast that you mentioned earlier (the one where they are talking about the NBA and then Simmons sucker punches him with Eagles stuff and then tries to make CR keep talking about it) it was 100% weird behavior and CR seemed more ticked off at Bill than I’ve ever heard him before.

I will also say that I don’t think Bill enjoys being “ribbed” by anyone. I think there’s a reason why the only people he podcasts with regularly are basically his employees who only push back or disagree when he says something horrendously stupid. These types of guests allow him to get his takes off and not be pushed which is what he likes now
You're just, like, creating a narrative man, one that befits your preconceived notions. There's a bunch of strawmen there, too. It is impossible to believe you're just thinking for yourself and stating an honest opinion. :)

Seriously, though, Simmons has lost his fastball and he's become what he literally made his career on mocking. An out of touch guy who just spouts nonsense and the same 10 platitudes without putting any work or thought into anything he's creating. He's definitely Top 3 all time in bad podcasts hosts for the last 20 years. Well, maybe top 5. We should do an MVP pod about it.

The second Bill stopped writing was the second he started calcifying and now he's set in stone. He regressed fast. He was great as recently as 2020. And good in 2021. Then collapse.

He doesn't even have celebrities on his podcast anymore because that requires prep, paying attention to what the guest is saying instead of just waiting to talk, and an actual attention span. Instead he has on boot lickers like Steven Ruiz and Ben Solak. No work involved, just let Ben tell him how cool he is.

But it happens. He definitely used to put in the work and his writing in the 00s were some of the best in the history of the internet. I read every word and every column release was an event for me. But that was 20 years ago. He caught a very nice break with the Spotify buyout and now he's just coasting.
 

Auger34

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You're just, like, creating a narrative man, one that befits your preconceived notions. There's a bunch of strawmen there, too. It is impossible to believe you're just thinking for yourself and stating an honest opinion. :)

Seriously, though, Simmons has lost his fastball and he's become what he literally made his career on mocking. An out of touch guy who just spouts nonsense and the same 10 platitudes without putting any work or thought into anything he's creating. He's definitely Top 3 all time in bad podcasts hosts for the last 20 years. Well, maybe top 5. We should do an MVP pod about it.

The second Bill stopped writing was the second he started calcifying and now he's set in stone. He regressed fast. He was great as recently as 2020. And good in 2021. Then collapse.

He doesn't even have celebrities on his podcast anymore because that requires prep, paying attention to what the guest is saying instead of just waiting to talk, and an actual attention span. Instead he has on boot lickers like Steven Ruiz and Ben Solak. No work involved, just let Ben tell him how cool he is.

But it happens. He definitely used to put in the work and his writing in the 00s were some of the best in the history of the internet. I read every word and every column release was an event for me. But that was 20 years ago. He caught a very nice break with the Spotify buyout and now he's just coasting.
I will say that my biggest problem with Simmons now is the complete lack of self-awareness as to what he is now and what he’s saying. He still acts like he’s way above the hot take complex in sports media but that’s EXACTLY what he is. You brought up the NBA MVP thing. He talks about it all of the goddamn time and then will have a pod decrying people that talk about the MVP too much. It’s almost parody at this point.

And I have to push back on people who think he’s self aware enough to think that he’s playing some sort of idiot moderator on these pods on purpose. I can absolutely guarantee he thinks he’s an expert on movies but he’s the host so he’s trying to set up his guests. I have 0 doubt he thinks he could do them on his own and cook with his movie knowledge
 

Kliq

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Ah, the monthly debate where people assume that people who spend an enormous amount of time working with Bill Simmons and clearly like him actually secretly hate him.
 

Spelunker

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Ah, the monthly debate where people assume that people who spend an enormous amount of time working with Bill Simmons and clearly like him actually secretly hate him.
Wait, you don't think "so, you're still churning out...what is it called? The Watch" is making CR sad?