Juhann Begarin pick #45

HomeRunBaker

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I wouldn't have thought this. Interesting.

Anyone have a good ranking list of leagues and where the G League would fall in that list?
I would take a shot and say after Spain there is a fairly significant drop off to a large group like France, Turkey, Germany, Italy, etc. Maybe Turkey could be one that would separate a little bit but France is among the better leagues. It really is hard to say where the G-League fits as they are “mostly” young players just out of college while these other professional leagues are loaded with their own veteran countrymen…….who couldn’t ever touch foot in the NBA down the road but would beat them today on the floor. They are just so different from G-League.

Edit: Forgot about Russia…..ty nighthob.
 
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nighthob

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I wouldn't have thought this. Interesting.

Anyone have a good ranking list of leagues and where the G League would fall in that list?
The G League suffers from the NBA’s use of the 1970s NHL approach to minor league ball. Teams have, at most, four of their own guys on a roster and everyone else is playing to get noticed and land ten day deals with someone or impress international scouts to land a deal abroad. It makes development a little tricky which is probably why it’s been so poor at it.

Serie A is one of the better European leagues, it’s a step below the Spanish ACB, but it’s right there in the second tier with Italy’s Liga A, the GBL, Turkey’s BSL, and whatever they’re calling the Russian super league these days.
 

Fishy1

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To give people a sense, if you go to B-Ref you can see the rosters for LGA. Last year, the best team in LGA, ASVEL, was helmed by Norris Cole and Yabusele.
 

HomeRunBaker

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To give people a sense, if you go to B-Ref you can see the rosters for LGA. Last year, the best team in LGA, ASVEL, was helmed by Norris Cole and Yabusele.
These teams run 10-deep and there isn’t much drop off in their second units. ASVEL also had Lighty and Fall, who may have actually been their two best players……any of those four would be among any G-League teams top 2-3.
 

Cellar-Door

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These teams run 10-deep and there isn’t much drop off in their second units. ASVEL also had Lighty and Fall, who may have actually been their two best players……any of those four would be among any G-League teams top 2-3.
Howard was a bench player there and did some time in G-League, where he was very good.

Also, Cole and Yabu are better than most G-Leaguers. I'd say France is better than the G-League.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Howard was a bench player there and did some time in G-League, where he was very good.

Also, Cole and Yabu are better than most G-Leaguers. I'd say France is better than the G-League.
Yeah, teams from Spain and the large group (5-6 countries?) behind them are better than your average G-League team. I should have been more clear in that I’m not sure where a G-League team fits in the tiers below that and what determines “better”…….meaning better today or players with higher upside.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Obviously bored, a writer at Boston.com does an article on Begarin's ceiling: https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2021/10/13/juhann-begarin-brad-stevens-celtics-draft-pick-david-kahn-paris-basketball/

One thing I learned: Paris Basketball, the team Begarin now plays for, is owned by David Kahn. Yes, that David Kahn. KAAAAAHHHHN! And another key player on Paris Basketball is Ryan Boatright of UConn's 2014 team. (I guess that's two things.)

One thing I didn't learn: he can already guard NBA players.

Conclusion: it's in the article.
 

Imbricus

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Loved this kid in summer league. He really acted like he belonged out there. Closer to being NBA ready than I expected. Some amazing athleticism, including chase-down blocks. Good stand-your-ground verticality on defense close to the basket. He's going to be good, especially with those freakishly long arms.
 

oumbi

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Just off those teeny tiny highlights, he looks like an NBA level athlete. He look like he doesn't mind contact and physical play. He looks as if he can shoot.

Can he play defense? Does he have the BBIQ of a crab? Does he have any other NBA skills? I sure don't know, but it is fun to hope he turns out to be a good player for the Celtics.
 

nighthob

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I can tell you from having watched waaaaay too many YouTube videos of him now that he's a good prospect. Things to like, if you watch his game highlights, the release on his jumper has been cleaned up. His French Serie B highlights from last year showed way too much inconsistency with his guide hand. It’s much steadier now. His defense has improved. He seems to anticipate the passing lanes better so far, that’s a great sign with him moving up a level. The handle’s improved, but he can still be too sloppy with the ball.

On the physicals he’s a monster athlete. Against Serie B level competition it was tough to tell (like Jay Scrubb eating up JuCo). But he’s still physically dominant against Serie A players. He’s a wingspan monster (allegedly a +7/+8 wingspan), but I think it might be a Jae Crowder light situation. He’s built like a tank, so I suspect that Langford might actually have more standing reach despite being only +6/+7 and shorter.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I can tell you from having watched waaaaay too many YouTube videos of him now that he's a good prospect. Things to like, if you watch his game highlights, the release on his jumper has been cleaned up. His French Serie B highlights from last year showed way too much inconsistency with his guide hand. It’s much steadier now. His defense has improved. He seems to anticipate the passing lanes better so far, that’s a great sign with him moving up a level. The handle’s improved, but he can still be too sloppy with the ball.

On the physicals he’s a monster athlete. Against Serie B level competition it was tough to tell (like Jay Scrubb eating up JuCo). But he’s still physically dominant against Serie A players. He’s a wingspan monster (allegedly a +7/+8 wingspan), but I think it might be a Jae Crowder light situation. He’s built like a tank, so I suspect that Langford might actually have more standing reach despite being only +6/+7 and shorter.
The information is out there. His standing reach is 8'9.

6'11.75 wingspan, 8'8.5 standing reach to be exact.
 

oumbi

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For entertainment purposes:

Jae Crowder = 8' 3.5" standing reach
Romeo Langford = 8' 7" OR 8' 8", I have seen both.
Jaylen Brown = 8' 8.5" standing reach
 

Cesar Crespo

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There's 0 question about his athleticism or length re the NBA. He's elite or close to elite in both. Just really raw. This guy is actually worth getting excited about even if he might not work out. He's not likely to get to his ceiling but if he does... we'll be happy.

He's different than Zizic, Yabu, Yam.
 

HomeRunBaker

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For entertainment purposes:

Jae Crowder = 8' 3.5" standing reach
Romeo Langford = 8' 7" OR 8' 8", I have seen both.
Jaylen Brown = 8' 8.5" standing reach
Yeah we saw how his physicals looked in SL. The kid has the physical set for sure……unless his skill set stalls completely, Begarin is going to make it in this league.
 

lovegtm

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Would be really nice for the Celtics to really get lucky on a late pick during the Brown/Tatum era. I guess Rob counts at this point, but the near misses in the teen picks have killed me.
 

nighthob

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The information is out there. His standing reach is 8'9.

6'11.75 wingspan, 8'8.5 standing reach to be exact.
I only accept the NBA pre-draft measurements these days. Everything else is unofficial as far as I’m concerned . However those measurements look the same as Langford’s, but Romeo appears to have longer arms. Begarin is very broad shouldered, so I suspected his standing reach might be less than Langford’s despite the greater listed wingspan.
 

JakeRae

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Begarin looks improved. He’s got a lot to work on still, but progress is huge at this point, his instincts look pretty good based on the little you can glean about that via highlights. His FT shooting remains dreadful and is a cause for concern, but overall he continues to look like a player without a ceiling, which is pretty exciting given context.
 

EL Jeffe

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Begarin should help mitigate the loss of the 2022 1st round pick in the White trade. He'll very likely be a better prospect than whoever would be on the board when Boston is slated to pick. Summer league is what it is, but you could still tell that Begarin was an NBA-level athlete with the tools to defend and slash. You'd think he could at least fill the limited Romeo role of wing depth next season, with a much higher ceiling if the jumper keeps improving along with his basketball IQ. His profile should fit into the 2022 roster quite nicely.
 

nighthob

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Begarin should help mitigate the loss of the 2022 1st round pick in the White trade. He'll very likely be a better prospect than whoever would be on the board when Boston is slated to pick. Summer league is what it is, but you could still tell that Begarin was an NBA-level athlete with the tools to defend and slash. You'd think he could at least fill the limited Romeo role of wing depth next season, with a much higher ceiling if the jumper keeps improving along with his basketball IQ. His profile should fit into the 2022 roster quite nicely.
If he’d waited a year he would have been in play as a late lottery pick. Of course part of that is the fact that this draft pool is pretty awful.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Yeah, I haven't given up on him.
Me neither but he has very little upside. I could see him filling the back end of the roster on the cheap, or even getting a 2 way. I don't see him being much more than end of bench fodder but if he can hit a 3 and facilitate he should stick in the NBA for a while.

Begarin, on the other hand, is a Jaylen Brown clone. 6'5, 6'11.75 wingspan, 8'8.5 standing reach. (reported, not combine)
Brown 6'6, 7'0 wingspan, 8'8.5 standing reach.

Same explosiveness and athleticism. Same initials (JMB). I haven't seen enough of him to know if he's just as mechanical but the length and athleticism are definitely NBA caliber. Maybe he ends the way of Romeo instead of Jaylen, but this was a home run pick regardless of how Begarin works out. Romeo had the measurements (6'4.5, 6'11, 8'7) but isn't quite as athletic or nearly as explosive as JB and JB. The book on him isn't completely closed either. He's shown some signs of life but I'm not optimistic. Not our problem anymore though.

If NJB is stateside in 22/23, his rookie season will be at age 20. He would be 2 months older than OGJB was his rookie season.

Brown's age 19 season in college .431/.294/.654 14.6 point, 5.4 rebounds, 2.0 assists, 0.8 steals, 0.6 blocks, 3.1 TO, 27.6 minutes, 34 games.
Begarin's age 19 season in International play .503/.298/.571 10.4 points, 3.6 rebounds, 1.5 assists, 1.7 steals, 0.4 blocks, 2.2 TO, 26.6 minutes, 18 games.

If anyone's into it: Juhan Begarin stats and Last 5 games

He's playing against what I would assume is better competition. The steals jump out, TO too. Whether that's a league thing/team thing I don't know. Jaylen's awful steal/block rates and TO were a big cause of concern on draft night. He still doesn't really block or steal and the TO are a problem, but it still worked out ok. It is curious that he doesn't do those things, considering his length and athleticism but he's not the most defensively aware player there is.

Kinda crazy how many similarities the 2 actually have. At least from a physical standpoint and on paper. Also more proof not to really worry what a 19 year old kid is shooting at the 3 point line or even the FT line.
 

Cellar-Door

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Me neither but he has very little upside. I could see him filling the back end of the roster on the cheap, or even getting a 2 way. I don't see him being much more than end of bench fodder but if he can hit a 3 and facilitate he should stick in the NBA for a while.

Begarin, on the other hand, is a Jaylen Brown clone. 6'5, 6'11.75 wingspan, 8'8.5 standing reach. (reported, not combine)
Brown 6'6, 7'0 wingspan, 8'8.5 standing reach.

Same explosiveness and athleticism. Same initials (JMB). I haven't seen enough of him to know if he's just as mechanical but the length and athleticism are definitely NBA caliber. Maybe he ends the way of Romeo instead of Jaylen, but this was a home run pick regardless of how Begarin works out. Romeo had the measurements (6'4.5, 6'11, 8'7) but isn't quite as athletic or nearly as explosive as JB and JB. The book on him isn't completely closed either. He's shown some signs of life but I'm not optimistic. Not our problem anymore though.

If NJB is stateside in 22/23, his rookie season will be at age 20. He would be 2 months older than OGJB was his rookie season.

Brown's age 19 season in college .431/.294/.654 14.6 point, 5.4 rebounds, 2.0 assists, 0.8 steals, 0.6 blocks, 3.1 TO, 27.6 minutes, 34 games.
Begarin's age 19 season in International play .503/.298/.571 10.4 points, 3.6 rebounds, 1.5 assists, 1.7 steals, 0.4 blocks, 2.2 TO, 26.6 minutes, 18 games.

If anyone's into it: Juhan Begarin stats and Last 5 games

He's playing against what I would assume is better competition. The steals jump out, TO too. Whether that's a league thing/team thing I don't know. Jaylen's awful steal/block rates and TO were a big cause of concern on draft night. He still doesn't really block or steal and the TO are a problem, but it still worked out ok. It is curious that he doesn't do those things, considering his length and athleticism but he's not the most defensively aware player there is.

Kinda crazy how many similarities the 2 actually have. At least from a physical standpoint and on paper. Also more proof not to really worry what a 19 year old kid is shooting at the 3 point line or even the FT line.
My feeling on him is that like Romeo at the very least he's gonna be a good on-ball defender. Unless he's lazy, which there is no indication of, guys with those physical tools and any kind of motor tend to be solid or better on-ball. Off ball, and basically everything on offense... harder to say.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Because Begarin's more likely to make it in the NBA (IMO), I'm going to bump this thread. Scout's take on Begarin and Mader here: https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/3/25/22996189/a-scouts-view-yam-madar-and-juhann-begarin-boston-celtics.

Summary of Begarin: still has NBA body and NBA athleticism; can play NBA defense easily. Apparently he tweaked his shot and hasn't gone well as he's under 30% from 3P. Other offensive skills are TBD.

Summary of Mader: pretty good offensive player; has improved his shot but avoids contact too much. As for defense, scout says he's "miles behind Pritchard" on defense, which is 'nuff said. Might become a third PG if things break correctly at this time but Mader wants to be better.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Because Begarin's more likely to make it in the NBA (IMO), I'm going to bump this thread. Scout's take on Begarin and Mader here: https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/3/25/22996189/a-scouts-view-yam-madar-and-juhann-begarin-boston-celtics.

Summary of Begarin: still has NBA body and NBA athleticism; can play NBA defense easily. Apparently he tweaked his shot and hasn't gone well as he's under 30% from 3P. Other offensive skills are TBD.

Summary of Mader: pretty good offensive player; has improved his shot but avoids contact too much. As for defense, scout says he's "miles behind Pritchard" on defense, which is 'nuff said. Might become a third PG if things break correctly at this time but Mader wants to be better.
He shot ok from 3 point land last year, but it generally hasn't gone well for him outside of that. A tweak at 19yo isn't the end of the world. His FG% is identical as last years despite a pretty big dip in 3 pointers. He's a not a huge volume guy (yet) either though.

He turns 20 in August, so he'll be older than Jayson Tatum soon. Still really young though.

I wonder if he'll be playing for the C's next year or he'll play another year internationally. It's hard to envision him being bad at defense, given his tools. It does happen, but effort will go along way. Offense is another matter. He's pretty green.
 

Imbricus

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Summary of Begarin: still has NBA body and NBA athleticism; can play NBA defense easily. Apparently he tweaked his shot and hasn't gone well as he's under 30% from 3P.
I was a bit disappointed in the scout's report on Begarin. I thought he showed more potential on offense in the summer league; disappointing that he's regressed. I'm hoping he doesn't become what Romeo turned into: a decent defender but a guy who didn't really add much on the offensive end (except for that little streak where Romeo was knocking down threes). I'm interested in seeing him in summer league again.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I was a bit disappointed in the scout's report on Begarin. I thought he showed more potential on offense in the summer league; disappointing that he's regressed. I'm hoping he doesn't become what Romeo turned into: a decent defender but a guy who didn't really add much on the offensive end (except for that little streak where Romeo was knocking down threes). I'm interested in seeing him in summer league again.
Apparently Begarin is working on his mechanics, which sometimes can take a while to become muscle memory.

Begarin is going to rise and fall on how well he shoots. Grant Williams (and The Is) should hook him up with their shot coach, if GWill's results are due in any large part to this guy.

View: https://twitter.com/LethalShooter__/status/1507939527633125379?cxt=HHwWhoC-9dnAo-0pAAAA
 

tbrown_01923

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Would love to see those drives against a rim protector - but he does take it hard (and straight). You can't really tell too much on the jumpers from this video - but it doesn't look super clean to me. Maybe he is leaning a bit backwards on a couple of them. But no hesitation in the shot, so thats good (if they go in).
 

nighthob

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Would love to see those drives against a rim protector - but he does take it hard (and straight). You can't really tell too much on the jumpers from this video - but it doesn't look super clean to me. Maybe he is leaning a bit backwards on a couple of them. But no hesitation in the shot, so thats good (if they go in).
He’s cleaned up the release a little, but it’s really slow. Someone here compared him to Jaylen, and I think it’s a good comparison. He’s super athletic but a little mechanical. And his left hand needs a lot of work.
 

Jimbodandy

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He’s cleaned up the release a little, but it’s really slow. Someone here compared him to Jaylen, and I think it’s a good comparison. He’s super athletic but a little mechanical. And his left hand needs a lot of work.
Really not a bad comp. He's ahead in some things, behind in others. Not quite as athletic, but better handle to what JB had entering the league. Shot maybe worse, but better passer.

Getting a lottery pick at 45 is pretty good drafting.
 

TripleOT

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I don’t know if another season of low quality competition is going to help him develop. I can’t imagine he’s making much more than the $462k NBA two way salary. With only a late second round draft pick in the draft, getting Begarin here, coached by NBA coaches, and playing in Maine if he can’t win rotation minutes with Boston, is the best way to develop him.
 

BigSoxFan

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I don’t care if he’s ready or not. I want him here next season. Yam seems like a meh prospect to me but Begarin has a pretty exciting ceiling.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I don’t care if he’s ready or not. I want him here next season. Yam seems like a meh prospect to me but Begarin has a pretty exciting ceiling.
Considering the end of the bench right now, there's room for both. A lot can change though. Yam's upside seems like Payton Pritchard.
 

lovegtm

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Considering the end of the bench right now, there's room for both. A lot can change though. Yam's upside seems like Payton Pritchard.
Yeah, and hard for him to hit even that part of his upside, since PP is a really elite shooter.
 

128

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Yeah, and hard for him to hit even that part of his upside, since PP is a really elite shooter.
Yam is much more of a pure point guard than Pritchard. Other than their skin color, they don't have that much in common. Yam is more of a quick-twitch athlete and has more length, but he's not built nearly as solidly as Payton.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Yam is much more of a pure point guard than Pritchard. Other than their skin color, they don't have that much in common. Yam is more of a quick-twitch athlete and has more length, but he's not built nearly as solidly as Payton.
Mader has a 6'5 wingspan. PP has a 6'4'.5 wingspan. Yam isn't really any longer. He's also not much of an athlete.

Yam is shooting well over 40% from 3 in international play and isn't really distributing the ball.
 

128

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Mader has a 6'5 wingspan. PP has a 6'4'.5 wingspan. Yam isn't really any longer. He's also not much of an athlete.

Yam is shooting well over 40% from 3 in international play and isn't really distributing the ball.
The recent Keith Smith article with quotes from the international scout about the C's stashes noted that assists aren't handed out nearly as liberally in Europe as in the U.S.

Don’t let the low assists numbers fool you. In most of Europe, but especially the Adriatic League, if your pass doesn’t directly lead to a shot, you aren’t getting an assist. Meaning, you kick to a shooter and he shoots without a fake or dribble. Or you pass and it’s maybe one dribble, but no move, into a layup.

Look more at his last year in Israel for assist-rate translation. They’re a little closer to the NBA.

https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/3/25/22996189/a-scouts-view-yam-madar-and-juhann-begarin-boston-celtics
 

Cesar Crespo

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The recent Keith Smith article with quotes from the international scout about the C's stashes noted that assists aren't handed out nearly as liberally in Europe as in the U.S.

Don’t let the low assists numbers fool you. In most of Europe, but especially the Adriatic League, if your pass doesn’t directly lead to a shot, you aren’t getting an assist. Meaning, you kick to a shooter and he shoots without a fake or dribble. Or you pass and it’s maybe one dribble, but no move, into a layup.

Look more at his last year in Israel for assist-rate translation. They’re a little closer to the NBA.

https://www.celticsblog.com/2022/3/25/22996189/a-scouts-view-yam-madar-and-juhann-begarin-boston-celtics
The competition in Isreal is awful it's hard to take anything away from it. PP averaged over 5 assists a game in college. I guess we will see if it translates to the NBA game.