Jaylen Brown's 2020-21 Season

bellowthecat

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Brutal. Hell of a season for JB even though he started getting affected by mounting injuries. First time all star and really deserved it. He really came to play at the start of the year even with the short offseason. Hopefully the much needed rest gets him better than ever for next season.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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He was "diagnosed" this weekend, does that mean he could have been playing through it for a while? He's been out for a while, so probably not, but the language is unclear.
 

Jimbodandy

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Hope that he gets everything else worked on while he rehabs from that surgery. Seems like he had a lot of stuff bothering him this year (shoulder, knee).
 

Lazy vs Crazy

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He was "diagnosed" this weekend, does that mean he could have been playing through it for a while? He's been out for a while, so probably not, but the language is unclear.
He clearly hurt his wrist in the Thunder game right near the end. Not sure if it's the same wrist as here, I'd have to go back and check the tape.

Edit: welp, it got posted above so yeah.
 

Cesar Crespo

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The 14th pick in the NBA draft is a fitting end to this season.

We aren't winning wihout JB so now I at least want a chance at a top 4 pick.
 

bigq

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They weren’t winning shit this season anyway. Get better and come back hungry next year.
 

OurF'ingCity

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The only plus side of this is that, even more so than before, I have zero expectations that they do anything in the postseason at all and any run they do go on will be pure gravy.
 

radsoxfan

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Same ligament tear Romeo Langford had surgically repaired. Frustrating for sure, guarantees we will never get a chance to see this team healthy this season. I sense a 7 seed and play-in loss.

2 scapholunate ligament tears needing surgery from the Celtics this year. Let's hope they are getting 2nd opinions and not at the mercy of an overcalling radiologist :)

Degeneration and partial tears of this ligament are pretty common, it can be a tricky diagnosis. I have to assume for them to end his season with immediate surgery it's a no-doubt complete tear and the bones are sliding apart.

A classic first year MSK radiology case. The "Terry Thomas sign" to suggest the diagnosis this on X-Ray.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Thomas_sign
 

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Jed Zeppelin

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Being just not terrible enough to sneak through the play-in and have 0% chance of high pick with 100% chance of getting smoked in rd 1 is just the perfect encapsulation of this season that I’m surprised I ever thought any other result was possible.

The fact that the season ending injuries starting with Hayward have been almost invariably fluky is really driving me nuts. The only one that wasn’t was Kyrie being Kyrie. Three random-ass wrist injuries since November, wtf?

It’s a shame, if their luck was a little worse, i.e. Tatum suffering the Paul Pierce Nebulous Elbow Injury (tm) could have set us up nicely heading into the draft. Oh well. Big minutes for Nesmith.
 
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lexrageorge

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Same ligament tear Romeo Langford had surgically repaired. Frustrating for sure, guarantees we will never get a chance to see this team healthy this season. I sense a 7 seed and play-in loss.

2 scapholunate ligament tears needing surgery from the Celtics this year. Let's hope they are getting 2nd opinions and not at the mercy of an overcalling radiologist :)

Degeneration and partial tears of this ligament are pretty common, it can be a tricky diagnosis. I have to assume for them to end his season with immediate surgery it's a no-doubt complete tear and the bones are sliding apart.

A classic first year MSK radiology case. The "Terry Thomas sign" to suggest the diagnosis this on X-Ray.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Thomas_sign
Never heard of the scapholunate ligament until today. Romeo's took a long time to heal, IIRC. Can we count on Brown to be playing games by December? Or are we looking at early 2022?

Losing the play-in games and getting a lottery ticket would not be the worst outcome from a fan perspective (I'm sure ownership disagrees, which they should). Even the #14 could be a good enough asset to ship out with Marcus Smart to get a better fit for this roster.

The problem is that they need to win only one game against two of Hornets, Wizards, Pacers (outside chance of Bulls) for the opportunity to get broomed in the first round.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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When was the last season the Celtics have avoided a major injury to a key player?
2015-16. Don't forget before Hayward and Irving arrived, IT didn't play the last 3.5 games against CLE in the conference finals.

Maybe the Cs are just getting everything out of their system so that next year they will lead the league in player health.
 

Cellar-Door

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Never heard of the scapholunate ligament until today. Romeo's took a long time to heal, IIRC. Can we count on Brown to be playing games by December? Or are we looking at early 2022?

Losing the play-in games and getting a lottery ticket would not be the worst outcome from a fan perspective (I'm sure ownership disagrees, which they should). Even the #14 could be a good enough asset to ship out with Marcus Smart to get a better fit for this roster.

The problem is that they need to win only one game against two of Hornets, Wizards, Pacers (outside chance of Bulls) for the opportunity to get broomed in the first round.
Romeo took about 5.5 months, within the usual 3-6 month window. Good thing for the chances of Jaylen not missing much or any of next season is that Romeo injured his shooting hand/wrist while Jaylen's is his off hand, so he'll be able to do shooting much earlier
 

radsoxfan

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Never heard of the scapholunate ligament until today. Romeo's took a long time to heal, IIRC. Can we count on Brown to be playing games by December? Or are we looking at early 2022?

Losing the play-in games and getting a lottery ticket would not be the worst outcome from a fan perspective (I'm sure ownership disagrees, which they should). Even the #14 could be a good enough asset to ship out with Marcus Smart to get a better fit for this roster.

The problem is that they need to win only one game against two of Hornets, Wizards, Pacers (outside chance of Bulls) for the opportunity to get broomed in the first round.
Romeo was on the long end of things, I bet JB will likely be good to go next year.

As an unnecessary tangent, one of the first cases I had an MSK radiology fellow was a San Diego Padres minor leaguer who was thought to have a scapholunate ligament tear based on clinical exam and his X-Rays (Terry Thomas sign).

Turns out African Americans have a higher rate of lunotriquetral coalition (the lunate and triquetrum, the bone opposite side from scaphoid). These bones can be fused by a bony or fibrous band, pulling the lunate away from the scaphoid and causing a wide scapohoid-lunate gap, and a "fake out" for a ligament tear.

We did an MRI arthrogram and injected the joint to prove the ligament was intact and thickened even with the big bone gap. Had another similar case later in fellowship, scheduled for scapholunate surgery based on clinical exam and X-Rays,. Got an MRI for confirmation, ended up having a lunotriqutral coalition and scapholunate ligament was intact.

I'm sure the Celtics have great docs and they are not botching this, 99.99% chance this is just very bad luck. But two African Americans needing the same surgery within a year of each other.... hope they aren't getting faked out!!
 

ifmanis5

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Bummed, Jaylen's development was one of the few highlighs this season. Hurts to lose the playoff reps. Hopefully this does oopen the door for more time for Nesmith and not just another excuse to play Grant more.
 

nighthob

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Losing the play-in games and getting a lottery ticket would not be the worst outcome from a fan perspective (I'm sure ownership disagrees, which they should). Even the #14 could be a good enough asset to ship out with Marcus Smart to get a better fit for this roster.
Trading Smart and a lottery pick for a roleplayer, and likely one not as good as Smart, would be the perfect way to ensure that we’re back here next year.
 

lexrageorge

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Trading Smart and a lottery pick for a roleplayer, and likely one not as good as Smart, would be the perfect way to ensure that we’re back here next year.
My assumption is that a trade would be done only if it nets a positive return. Which should not be all that hard in my scenario, as I don’t think Smart is all that good at this point in his career.
 

HomeRunBaker

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My assumption is that a trade would be done only if it nets a positive return. Which should not be all that hard in my scenario, as I don’t think Smart is all that good at this point in his career.
Did you not like Smart in previous years or do you feel something in his game is declining?
 

lexrageorge

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Did you not like Smart in previous years or do you feel something in his game is declining?
I feel it's the latter. He hasn't been great defensively. And I'm not a fan of his 33% three point percentage this season either. I don't think he's a great fit on this roster, and he seems primed for an early decline.
 

bsj

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I feel it's the latter. He hasn't been great defensively. And I'm not a fan of his 33% three point percentage this season either. I don't think he's a great fit on this roster, and he seems primed for an early decline.
I agree. I feel like what the team needs + what he does badly now outweighs what he does well (and this is the first time I have felt that).
 

Smokey Joe

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Romeo was on the long end of things, I bet JB will likely be good to go next year.

As an unnecessary tangent, one of the first cases I had an MSK radiology fellow was a San Diego Padres minor leaguer who was thought to have a scapholunate ligament tear based on clinical exam and his X-Rays (Terry Thomas sign).

Turns out African Americans have a higher rate of lunotriquetral coalition (the lunate and triquetrum, the bone opposite side from scaphoid). These bones can be fused by a bony or fibrous band, pulling the lunate away from the scaphoid and causing a wide scapohoid-lunate gap, and a "fake out" for a ligament tear.

We did an MRI arthrogram and injected the joint to prove the ligament was intact and thickened even with the big bone gap. Had another similar case later in fellowship, scheduled for scapholunate surgery based on clinical exam and X-Rays,. Got an MRI for confirmation, ended up having a lunotriqutral coalition and scapholunate ligament was intact.

I'm sure the Celtics have great docs and they are not botching this, 99.99% chance this is just very bad luck. But two African Americans needing the same surgery within a year of each other.... hope they aren't getting faked out!!
A quick way to check on that is to do both wrists. If you have bilateral Terry Thomas sign, it has to make you think.
 

nighthob

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My assumption is that a trade would be done only if it nets a positive return. Which should not be all that hard in my scenario, as I don’t think Smart is all that good at this point in his career.
There aren’t many superstars getting paid roleplayer money (which is what Marcus makes). Ergo what you’re trading for is another roleplayer. And throwing in a lottery pick to boot for that roleplayer.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I feel it's the latter. He hasn't been great defensively. And I'm not a fan of his 33% three point percentage this season either. I don't think he's a great fit on this roster, and he seems primed for an early decline.
I feel Smart is an emotional player who plays off the crowd which obv hasn’t been there this year or last year in the bubble. I don’t see any physical decline especially in a players age 25 & 26 seasons. Maybe it’s complacency? Maybe he needs a coaching change to kick him back into gear? ;)
 

radsoxfan

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A quick way to check on that is to do both wrists. If you have bilateral Terry Thomas sign, it has to make you think.
Symmetry is definitely our friend, though these coalitions are only bilateral about half the time.

It's mostly a moot point with a well done MRI, I'm sure they aren't going just based on the X-Ray. The only tricky part is that grading these tears is challenging as the ligament is very small. One of the important secondary signs we look for is if the bones are too far apart (i.e. the ligament doesn't look great + bones far apart = high grade to full-thickness tear).

If the bones are naturally far apart because of something congenital and the ligament doesn't look great, you might get tricked into thinking its a higher grade injury than it really is.

Anyway, I want to emphasize it's highly unlikely JB has a coalition and it's even more unlikely the Celtics medical staff is messing up the diagnosis. Just interesting there have been 2 surgical S-L ligament tears on the Celtics this year and sharing my entirely anecdotal experience.
 

Jimbodandy

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Symmetry is definitely our friend, though these coalitions are only bilateral about half the time.

It's mostly a moot point with a well done MRI, I'm sure they aren't going just based on the X-Ray. The only tricky part is that grading these tears is challenging as the ligament is very small. One of the important secondary signs we look for is if the bones are too far apart (i.e. the ligament doesn't look great + bones far apart = high grade to full-thickness tear).

If the bones are naturally far apart because of something congenital and the ligament doesn't look great, you might get tricked into thinking its a higher grade injury than it really is.

Anyway, I want to emphasize it's highly unlikely JB has a coalition and it's even more unlikely the Celtics medical staff is messing up the diagnosis. Just interesting there have been 2 surgical S-L ligament tears on the Celtics this year and sharing my entirely anecdotal experience.
Thanks for this. Fascinating.
 

Imbricus

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So if he's been grabbing at his wrist since April 15, why do we keep running him out there? Sorry, but that just seems to be inviting a worse injury. I know it's the end of the season, and the Celts are trying to win a good playoff spot, but that doesn't sound like good injury management. Maybe we should be resting guys who are (mildly) hurt before they become (badly) hurt?
 

HomeRunBaker

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So if he's been grabbing at his wrist since April 15, why do we keep running him out there? Sorry, but that just seems to be inviting a worse injury. I know it's the end of the season, and the Celts are trying to win a good playoff spot, but that doesn't sound like good injury management. Maybe we should be resting guys who are (mildly) hurt before they become (badly) hurt?
If teams rested every player who is mildly hurt this time of the season we’d have G-League teams out there every night. You can’t rest everyone when you’re competing to win games.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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They were supposedly playing Fournier through his Covid-related recover so that, even if it cost them performance in the regular season, he'd be as sharp and as integrated into the team's schemes as possible by playoff time. Wouldn't that same logic mean that we should have rested Jaylen more, at the expense of regular season performance, so he'd be in better shape for the playoffs?