Jaylen Brown: Will he be enough in Year 8?

wade boggs chicken dinner

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3 TO and 0 assists Dec 1 against Philly and 3 TO and 0 assists Dec 4 against Indy. Were those games before or after he was sprinkled with the magic playmaking dust? Perhaps we can throw out those games from our memory and evaluation ;)

Agree on progress not being linear and if even a portion of this is sustainable rather than inevitable variation, I will be stoked. But people here pretending he's somehow suddenly unlocked some masterful playmaking dimension to his game are likely to be disappointed.

I'm actually more hopeful the 3 pointer comes back closer to his peak. That's something he's shown he can do over the course of 2 seasons.
The IND game was without KP. I can't remember the PHI game.

KP is massively important to JB. The extra space means that he knows where the 2nd defender is coming from (if he comes at all). It also may be that JB can find KP more easily since he's so big (like a QB and a TE).

I personally don't think that JB has had an epiphany but I just think that his new teammates - particularly KP - make the game easier for him. Much like playing with Jokic has made the game super simple gor Aaron Gordon.
 

lovegtm

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I enjoy having the title favorite, personally lol. I’d also say let’s see where the numbers look like by the midseason point and further. I’d expect them to still be really good without Tatum either way, but 5 games ago, the team had a net of +4 with Jaylen on and Tatum off. It’s still early enough that a small stretch of games really affects the overall numbers.

I’m ecstatic that they are playing so well without Tatum, but they’d be second round toast with a Mikal Bridges instead. People definitely too in the moment with Tatum, IMO.
If you read my post as dissing Tatum, you read it wrong.

I too prefer the #1 seed and title favorite.

Was just making a point about Brown/DWhite quality.
 

HomeRunBaker

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We all agree this has been a different Jaylen over the last couple of weeks and throw out different ideas why....with the end result imo all going back to comfort. More comfortable with his role not having to score as much, comfortable on the floor w so many great players, comfortable on the floor w more shooters, and yes I'll say it, comfortable with his contract and the pressures that come with it. (We've seen Pritchard's season trending nearly identical in this area but I digress).

Someone posted upthread about how rating an individual player overall is tricky as roles on team change, etc etc...this cannot be more true. Jaylen on this Celtics team would not resemble the Jaylen if he were on the Pistons yet we are quick to speak of the player as if there are no variables in coming to a conclusion on a rating when what really matters in the present is....his rating on this particular team in his particular role. I've spoke of this many times over the years regarding role players when someone comes here to say so and so is "washed" when he simply does not have a role on that particular new team. I recognize that Jaylen isn't that type of player but this is an example of the situation making the player appear different than he would in another.

Many of the old timers will remember The Dream Team which saw a group of high scorers who had the ability to pass turn into distributors when playing with so many other great players that they respect much moreso than a second unit player on their own team for example (Was Drexler more comfortable passing to Jordan, Barkley and Mullin or to Caldwell Jones or Mark Bryant?). If we think back to the playgrounds and how the primary scorer distributes less when on the floor with inferior players he doesn't respect compared to when he has teammates that he does. This stuff matters. It matters a lot....and to me it seems like Jaylen is now finding that ideal comfort zone w KP, w White, and w Hauser. As radsox warns however, let's see if this is something that sustains or reverts back to prior habits from when the player HAD to score for his teams at both the NBA and collegiate level.
 

RorschachsMask

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If you read my post as dissing Tatum, you read it wrong.

I too prefer the #1 seed and title favorite.

Was just making a point about Brown/DWhite quality.
They are awesome. But I think when you just look at Jaylen on and Tatum off, it’s more than just Jaylen making a playmaking leap. That’s why I look at lineup combos so often.

Jaylen on, White off: -8.4 net, 19th percentile.
Jaylen on, KP off: -0.9, 43rd percentile.
Jaylen on, KP/White off: -9.5, 16th percentile.

White on, Jaylen off: +17.8, 99th percentile
KP on, Jaylen off: -7.0, 23rd percentile.

Jaylen really needs those two, imo. I can’t believe Brad has turned this roster into what it is, it’s amazing that they’ve been so good without Tatum. I just think it’s based on having a great 2-8, more than anything else.

Jaylen and KP having great chemistry is what most pops to me. They are great outlets for each others style. Joe has found the right rotation combinations, which he and the staff deserve a ton of credit for.

Jaylen/KP/White (+20.3 net in 200 possessions without Tatum!)
Tatum/Holiday/Pritchard (+22.2 net in 239 possessions without JB/White/KP)
 
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bigq

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Good back to back posts @lovegtm

Jaylen’s improvement this season is a function of the talent he has around him. When JT is off the floor, Jaylen doesn’t have to pick up the scoring load by himself. He has a highly talented supporting cast that can put the ball in the bucket so facilitating and probing to get the best look for whomever on the floor is open makes sense.

SSS but doubling his assists when JT is off is impressive. JB is a smart guy. The increased assist rate is probably a combination of coaching, game film study, and getting comfortable with his new teammates. I hope it sticks. I wish we had this team in G7 of the ECF last year when JB tried and failed to do it all by himself. I wonder if that is still fresh in his mind.
 
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radsoxfan

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I personally don't think that JB has had an epiphany but I just think that his new teammates - particularly KP - make the game easier for him.
I think this is definitely a reasonable possibility. Being placed in a better basketball milieu tends to bring everyone up a bit. Jrue and KP are certainly higher IQ basketball players than Smart and Rob, and ideally this will rub off on everyone to some degree, including Jaylen. Any incremental improvements in his overall passing and floor game are likely the result of this rather than some sudden personal leap in this area.

As an aside, virtually all good NBA players make good passes from time to time. It's all about the frequency and consistency of these plays (vs turnovers of course) that sets someones skill level.

People pointing out individual drive and dish type plays Jaylen has made recently that he "never would have made before" and shows he's "unlocked something" is little silly. All guys do this sometimes, we can't over rate a few creative plays over a few games and pretend he's had an awakening.
 

NomarsFool

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It seems like JB has had a ~2 passes to KP for a dunk in almost every game. That's a pretty simple explanation for his increase in assists this year. As someone else posted, his dunk % has increased, which is an indicator that he is taking it to the basket more. Maybe there is also something in the stats about his number of drives to the basket.
 

Jimbodandy

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I think this is definitely a reasonable possibility. Being placed in a better basketball milieu tends to bring everyone up a bit. Jrue and KP are certainly higher IQ basketball players than Smart and Rob, and ideally this will rub off on everyone to some degree, including Jaylen. Any incremental improvements in his overall passing and floor game are likely the result of this rather than some sudden personal leap in this area.

As an aside, virtually all good NBA players make good passes from time to time. It's all about the frequency and consistency of these plays (vs turnovers of course) that sets someones skill level.

People pointing out individual drive and dish type plays Jaylen has made recently that he "never would have made before" and shows he's "unlocked something" is little silly. All guys do this sometimes, we can't over rate a few creative plays over a few games and pretend he's had an awakening.
A lot of good posts on this page.

FWIW, I agree with the consensus that the surrounding cast is a huge reason--perhaps most of the reason--that JB has seen this playmaking jump. But I think that there's an awakening of sorts as well. Being surrounded by smarter offensive talent has slowed the game down for him, but it is still encouraging to me that the very fact of the game slowing down a little has made his read and react game work. He clearly wasn't that far away from improved decision-making and is able to tap into it now. We should be glad for that, not dubious.

If he were still bullrushing into double-teams and getting stripped, this place would be apoplectic. He isn't. He's making good reads that are resulting in either open threes or dunks. Seems like good news?
 

pjheff

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We all agree this has been a different Jaylen over the last couple of weeks and throw out different ideas why....with the end result imo all going back to comfort. More comfortable with his role not having to score as much, comfortable on the floor w so many great players, comfortable on the floor w more shooters, and yes I'll say it, comfortable with his contract and the pressures that come with it. (We've seen Pritchard's season trending nearly identical in this area but I digress).
Isn't the old axiom that players enter the NBA focused on establishing their reputation, getting a max contract, and winning rings in that order? Is it any surprise that Jaylen was putting up shots last year to make All-NBA and get supermaxed or that now with his contract settled his game has evolved? Another bit of credit for Brad is that he has assembled a nucleus that has largely been paid and should be entirely focused on winning.
 

chilidawg

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Isn't the old axiom that players enter the NBA focused on establishing their reputation, getting a max contract, and winning rings in that order? Is it any surprise that Jaylen was putting up shots last year to make All-NBA and get supermaxed or that now with his contract settled his game has evolved? Another bit of credit for Brad is that he has assembled a nucleus that has largely been paid and should be entirely focused on winning.
It may be an axiom, but I subscribe to the theory that these guys are all individuals, and their motivations and behaviors are personal and unique.
 

Auger34

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A lot of good posts on this page.

FWIW, I agree with the consensus that the surrounding cast is a huge reason--perhaps most of the reason--that JB has seen this playmaking jump. But I think that there's an awakening of sorts as well. Being surrounded by smarter offensive talent has slowed the game down for him, but it is still encouraging to me that the very fact of the game slowing down a little has made his read and react game work. He clearly wasn't that far away from improved decision-making and is able to tap into it now. We should be glad for that, not dubious.

If he were still bullrushing into double-teams and getting stripped, this place would be apoplectic. He isn't. He's making good reads that are resulting in either open threes or dunks. Seems like good news?
Exactly right.

This is good news. I don’t know how it’s not. Reading some of these posts, it really seems like people just want something to be negative about.

When Tatum made a leap, I was in that thread talking about how it looked like he was making a leap to my eye. The thread was universally positive.

I truly don’t understand why this thread isn’t more like that. What’s the harm in celebrating a great stretch from a player and hoping it portends to the future? Am I missing something about internet cool points where you get a couple extra if you remain skeptical? Maybe even more if every compliment and post is backhanded?

I said this in a message to you and I am not more confident in this than ever.

The national media and national twitter is much harder on Tatum than Brown. I don’t know why that is.

The Boston media, Boston fans, and this board are the complete opposite. The sensitivity regarding anything seen as even remotely a slight towards Tatum is staggering. Meanwhile everything positive about Brown has to be met with a fucking million qualifiers and even more “well let’s wait and see”.

I shouldn’t be surprised but it’s always shitty to read. All I am looking for is a modicum of consistency from people. If you want to criticize people after bad games, be my guest. I do the same. The difference is I don’t criticize one set of players but stick up for others for doing the same shit. It truly drives me mad sometimes.

(And yes Tatum is the best played on the team, bla bla bla. That isn’t what I’m talking about and I think it’s obvious)
 

radsoxfan

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Exactly right.

This is good news. I don’t know how it’s not. Reading some of these posts, it really seems like people just want something to be negative about.

When Tatum made a leap, I was in that thread talking about how it looked like he was making a leap to my eye. The thread was universally positive.

I truly don’t understand why this thread isn’t more like that. What’s the harm in celebrating a great stretch from a player and hoping it portends to the future? Am I missing something about internet cool points where you get a couple extra if you remain skeptical? Maybe even more if every compliment and post is backhanded?
This an internet board, if we all just agreed with everyone it wouldn't be too interesting.

HOPING Brown has unlocked something significant makes some sense to me. Seemed to me people are placing a lot of significance on a few good games and pretty close to banking on it.

Wish I got cool internet points for still being skeptical, but I don't think so.
 

Jimbodandy

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This an internet board, if we all just agreed with everyone it wouldn't be too interesting.

HOPING Brown has unlocked something significant makes some sense to me. Seemed to me people are placing a lot of significance on a few good games and pretty close to banking on it.

Wish I got cool internet points for still being skeptical, but I don't think so.
You've earned your internet points from unofficial, pro-bono knee diagnoses.
 

benhogan

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If he were still bullrushing into double-teams and getting stripped, this place would be apoplectic. He isn't. He's making good reads that are resulting in either open threes or dunks. Seems like good news?
This is 100% true.
There is something about a Jaylen Brown TO that gets everyone worked up (& I'm not immune).

Looking at his hands in disbelief probably triggers us?

Maybe he should start flapping his arms & yelling at the refs. Displacing the blame works for Tatum.
 

chilidawg

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HOPING Brown has unlocked something significant makes some sense to me. Seemed to me people are placing a lot of significance on a few good games and pretty close to banking on it.

Wish I got cool internet points for still being skeptical, but I don't think so.
That seems like healthy skepticism. But it's certainly encouraging that over this recent stretch he's shown he has a playmaking level beyond what he'd shown in the past, far better than just hoping he might.
 

Auger34

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This is 100% true.
There is something about a Jaylen Brown TO that gets everyone worked up (& I'm not immune).

Looking at his hands in disbelief probably triggers us?

Maybe he should start flapping his arms & yelling at the refs. Displacing the blame works for Tatum.
I fully expect a half baked analysis about how Tatum’s flapping his arms and yelling at the refs ACTUALLY help the Celtics.

It’s only stupid Jaylen Browns turnovers that do damage
 

lars10

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I fully expect a half baked analysis about how Tatum’s flapping his arms and yelling at the refs ACTUALLY help the Celtics.

It’s only stupid Jaylen Browns turnovers that do damage
Complaining about Tatum complaining never gets old.. for some.
 

Auger34

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Complaining about Tatum complaining never gets old.. for some.
This is hilarious to me.

I don’t complain about Tatum at all…other than his awful pull up 3’s, which numbers show he is awful at.

You do a great job of proving my other complaints about Tatum…which have nothing to do with him. You are always there to tell me that I somehow hate Tatum or my complaining is somehow out of bounds…..when I literally complain about him like everyone does for everyone other player. I’ll point you to my “the sensitivity about Tatum is absolutely insane around here” post.

Very interesting dynamic.
 

HomeRunBaker

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It may be an axiom, but I subscribe to the theory that these guys are all individuals, and their motivations and behaviors are personal and unique.
I see the axiom as generally correct with few outliers as is the case in most professions. Who enters the professional world in their young 20's not wanting to be individually successful and to make a shit ton of money? They may say they want to win championships but very few enter the league with any understanding of what it takes to win a championship.
 

bgo544

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I'm going to take a slightly different perspective on this good back and forth about whether Brown has "unlocked a new skill level" or whatever.

It doesn't really matter. I am sympathetic to radsoxfan's skepticism that Brown has improved playmaking skill, so let start with the assumption that he hasn't. What has been obvious to me in the last month or so though has been that his APPROACH has changed, and that change in approach leads to better basketball, even with unchanged playmaking skill.
 

lars10

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This is hilarious to me.

I don’t complain about Tatum at all…other than his awful pull up 3’s, which numbers show he is awful at.

You do a great job of proving my other complaints about Tatum…which have nothing to do with him. You are always there to tell me that I somehow hate Tatum or my complaining is somehow out of bounds…..when I literally complain about him like everyone does for everyone other player. I’ll point you to my “the sensitivity about Tatum is absolutely insane around here” post.

Very interesting dynamic.
It’s true I do pick on you a bit..it’s intended as a bit of ribbing.. you seem good natured about it and I always recognize your name.. at this point of the season.. given how well they’re playing I’m not sure why one needs to complain about the team at all.

But I guess that’s what a sports board is about. Hopefully this team wins this year so we can all appreciate how good this young duo has been and that it all lead to something.
 

benhogan

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It’s true I do pick on you a bit..it’s intended as a bit of ribbing.. you seem good natured about it and I always recognize your name.. at this point of the season.. given how well they’re playing I’m not sure why one needs to complain about the team at all.

But I guess that’s what a sports board is about. Hopefully this team wins this year so we can all appreciate how good this young duo has been and that it all lead to something.
+1 to good-natured ribbing

I don't think anyone is complaining, more like observing.

The 21-6 record is excellent, BUT shouldn't we also be aware of the PROCESS at this stage of the season?

@tbb345 makes a good point about Tatum's Pull-Up inefficiency. AND its not just a Tatum "bad approach" thing, the Celtics have increased the % of Pull-Ups they are taking this season relative to Catch & Shoot 3s ( although Tatum gets most of that blame)
 

Auger34

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It’s true I do pick on you a bit..it’s intended as a bit of ribbing.. you seem good natured about it and I always recognize your name.. at this point of the season.. given how well they’re playing I’m not sure why one needs to complain about the team at all.

But I guess that’s what a sports board is about. Hopefully this team wins this year so we can all appreciate how good this young duo has been and that it all lead to something.
Honestly, youre completely correct. This team does look good and there’s barely anything to complain about. Its hypocritical of me to ask for positivity regarding one player and be negative about another
 

RorschachsMask

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I’m enjoying the hell out of the regular season, the team is a legitimate machine, and that’s with Tatum playing more like a top 8-10 guy than a real MVP candidate. That’s something none of us have to have any concern about, which is an incredibly bad sign for other teams.

It’s all about the playoffs for me now though, that’s where I’ll really judge any of the players.
 

lars10

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Honestly, youre completely correct. This team does look good and there’s barely anything to complain about. Its hypocritical of me to ask for positivity regarding one player and be negative about another
I don’t mean to be disrespectful. You probably have some valid points about Tatum.. I only get to see a few games so I’m not as keyed in as you are.

I wonder if Tatum has had a bit more trouble adjusting with KP… I thought before the season that JB would be a huge benefactor because of how much he cuts.

I think the only thing that really derails this team is injuries.. despite his liking to take a lot of shots I do think we have two unselfish major stars.. it’s probably more on the coaches at this point to change the end of game plays.. Joe seems to like Tatum iso’ing.. but maybe that will change as KP and JB prove time and again to be more effective..

Anyway carry on.. let’s go C’s!
 

Auger34

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I don’t mean to be disrespectful. You probably have some valid points about Tatum.. I only get to see a few games so I’m not as keyed in as you are.

I wonder if Tatum has had a bit more trouble adjusting with KP… I thought before the season that JB would be a huge benefactor because of how much he cuts.

I think the only thing that really derails this team is injuries.. despite his liking to take a lot of shots I do think we have two unselfish major stars.. it’s probably more on the coaches at this point to change the end of game plays.. Joe seems to like Tatum iso’ing.. but maybe that will change as KP and JB prove time and again to be more effective..

Anyway carry on.. let’s go C’s!
I was being completely serious, you weren’t disrespectful at all
 

NomarsFool

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One thing that I’m really thankful for is that VERY early in the season, JB wasn’t looking great, and I was concerned the media chorus of “trade overpaid Brown!” would become a narrative of the season. At the moment, that doesn’t seem to be too much of a risk and the team looks awesome. I’m not too concerned about Tatum, like all players not named Derrick White he goes through ups and downs, his ups are just MVP level and his downs are 3rd team All NBA.
 

Deathofthebambino

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That's a mash up of Sylvia Salow, D.R. Silva and other obscure "thinkers" I didn't expect to see this morning.

And no, this wasn't off the top of my head, took about 10 seconds on Google. I despise this kind of thing, but that's just me.

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/880003-i-used-to-be-afraid-of-the-dark-until-i

https://sylviasalow.com/2022/11/23/how-to-make-decisions-higher-self/

https://insighttimer.com/ellymolina/guided-meditations/using-the-power-of-solar-kinetics-to-manifest-anything
 

DavidTai

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Why in God's name is Jaylen Brown cribbing from Kyrie Irving's Pretentious Mishmash Bagel Hole of Profound Empty Calories Sprinkled with Everything and Nothing?
 

benhogan

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Celticsblog article sums up Jaylen's season so far as "Drive! Drivin' like the demons that drives your dream..."

https://www.celticsblog.com/2024/1/8/24029433/boston-celtics-jaylen-brown-sacrifice-refinement-drives-playmaking-poster-dunks-pacers-kings
JB rinses skinny WINGs/Guards when he gets them on his left hip, especially in transition.

He's probably TOP5 on riding off defenders with that move. Top of my head.
1. Bron
2. Giannis
3. Luka
4. Brown
5. Butler
 

Euclis20

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Since the loss to Charlotte (22 games ago), Brown has averaged 25/5/4 and shot .520/.375/.752, with excellent defense:

View: https://twitter.com/ChrisForsberg_/status/1744490357075611776?s=20


It's not a surprise that it took him longer than the others to adjust to the new pieces on offense (we saw him looking less comfortable than anyone else during preseason, and his game has always been more mechanical and slower to develop than others in his class of player), but he's definitely there now. He's probably not as important to the offense as KP and he's not as important to the defense as Holiday, but he's still firmly the 2nd best player on the Celtics.
 

benhogan

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My #1 thing I want to see tonight is Jaylen rinsing Middleton by putting him on his left hip.

Get downhill on the BUCKS awful perimeter defenders, relentlessly attack the lane, and make Brook/Giannis defend the rim will lead to open 3s
 

Deathofthebambino

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Opponents shooting 41% against Jaylen this year, per post game. Leads the NBA for guys who qualify. Doing that while routinely guarding opposing teams best scorers is impressive as hell, and seems to be a quiet push for all defense gaining steam.
 

benhogan

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Watching tonight's game reminds me of why Milwaukee is in trouble. Dallas couldn't stop Boston at the point of attack. Once they were down double digits there was no way to come back. Any time the C's needed a hoop they attacked Luka or Kyrie.

Dame is going to get incessantly hunted in the halfcourt
 

lovegtm

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Opponents shooting 41% against Jaylen this year, per post game. Leads the NBA for guys who qualify. Doing that while routinely guarding opposing teams best scorers is impressive as hell, and seems to be a quiet push for all defense gaining steam.
The defense has leveled up this year, in intensity and focus. He's also
- 8.8 (!) netrtg (122.5 ortg) without Tatum in 453 minutes
- at 3.9/2.6 assist/tov per 36 (Tatum is 4.4/2.5, for comparison)

This isn't a Brown vs Tatum thing: Tatum is having a great year. But JB is leveling up into a primary guy who can make staggered lineups work. (As long as you play him with DWhite. Jaylen is good to great in every other on/off combo except the ones where DWhite is off the floor.)
 

Jimbodandy

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The defense has leveled up this year, in intensity and focus. He's also
- 8.8 (!) netrtg (122.5 ortg) without Tatum in 453 minutes
- at 3.9/2.6 assist/tov per 36 (Tatum is 4.4/2.5, for comparison)

This isn't a Brown vs Tatum thing: Tatum is having a great year. But JB is leveling up into a primary guy who can make staggered lineups work. (As long as you play him with DWhite. Jaylen is good to great in every other on/off combo except the ones where DWhite is off the floor.)
It's a reminder of a couple of things--guys who are committed to improvement can continue to improve past age 25, and only God knows how to regress for teammates accurately. IMO both.

The game has slowed down to more of a read-and-react game for JB, which is an absolute joy to see.