Jason Varitek remains with the organization on a 3-year contract

sodenj5

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If Cora were to leave at some point I would be excited to see Varitek take the helm.
I would guess Varitek is their heir apparent to Cora should either he or ownership decide to move on.
 

NDame616

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AlNipper49

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He hasn't been here much but he was always in Greenville writing down in a notebook while tracking players. It's definitely not an honorary position type thing. The dude is in the trenches.
 

InsideTheParker

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Agreed.

I honestly don’t know much about what he does for the team or what he brings, but he’s the captain yall.
I have always liked Varitek, but I do wonder: if his contributions are so helpful, then why do the Sox seem to make the same mistakes over and over? I am referring to at-bat approaches, base-running, pitch selections, a whole lot of stuff that doesn't seem to change no matter how many notes Varitek takes. I would like to know exactly what he is doing, how it contributes to wins, and whether or not there is some "system" he is trying to implement.
 

Ale Xander

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Baserunning?
Fire Chaim if he is directing Tek to teach baserunning
 
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His role is one of game planning coordination and assistant bench coach. He's been in the bull pen pregame the last couple games I went to doing warm up drills with Vasquez and some pitchers...

Edit: Game planning coordination would equate to a lot of advanced scouting meetings and I would imagine that's a role that would suit him well. Though advance scouting is only as good as the tools you have to execute.
 

chrisfont9

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So people are excited about Varitek, without really knowing what he does or whether he can succeed as a ML manager, but down on Cora because he's only got one championship and an ALCS appearance on his record over four years. And also he didn't coax enough wins this year out of a pitching staff that for a key month consisted of four minor leaguers and Nick Pivetta. Is this where we're at?
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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So people are excited about Varitek, without really knowing what he does or whether he can succeed as a ML manager, but down on Cora because he's only got one championship and an ALCS appearance on his record over four years. And also he didn't coax enough wins this year out of a pitching staff that for a key month consisted of four minor leaguers and Nick Pivetta. Is this where we're at?
I think it's more of the general approach. His strategy seems to be "be aggressive" at the plate... which seems to be prone to all or nothing results with turns into a streaky team that can't get out of a downward spiral. I personally don't think he adjusts well or adapts to the situation. Same with bullpen management. It seems to me that he approaches every game against every opposing team with the same mentality. He's got a theory and he's sticking to it. That can work but, again, I feel it lends itself to huge blowout games and then lots of low scoring games. Spread across a season it looks good but the distribution isn't good.
I also suspect that this approach will be even more prone to extremes with the defensive changes coming up- I think batting just getting on base- slap singles hitters and high OBP guys will become more valuable.
I'm just ready to move on and was after '21 even- as far too many times I felt that the talent on the team was being screwed by Cora's bullpen management
 

moondog80

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So people are excited about Varitek, without really knowing what he does or whether he can succeed as a ML manager, but down on Cora because he's only got one championship and an ALCS appearance on his record over four years. And also he didn't coax enough wins this year out of a pitching staff that for a key month consisted of four minor leaguers and Nick Pivetta. Is this where we're at?
I get very skeptical when a managerial/head coach choice just happens to be a beloved former player. If it's an established guy who has multiple options and you can use the team connection to help lure him home, great. But if no other team would even consider him, that means "beloved former player" is his main qualification. I say this as a Georgetown fan who watched year 5 of the Patrick Ewing era result in an 0-19 Big East record.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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I get very skeptical when a managerial/head coach choice just happens to be a beloved former player. If it's an established guy who has multiple options and you can use the team connection to help lure him home, great. But if no other team would even consider him, that means "beloved former player" is his main qualification. I say this as a Georgetown fan who watched year 5 of the Patrick Ewing era result in an 0-19 Big East record.
I get this.... but Varitek is a little different than say, Manny Ramirez, no?
 

chrisfont9

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I get very skeptical when a managerial/head coach choice just happens to be a beloved former player. If it's an established guy who has multiple options and you can use the team connection to help lure him home, great. But if no other team would even consider him, that means "beloved former player" is his main qualification. I say this as a Georgetown fan who watched year 5 of the Patrick Ewing era result in an 0-19 Big East record.
I can't help but see some parallels to the Nets' situation, where they passed over the less famous guy who'd been grinding out experience in favor of a beloved famous guy. I'm sure the Sox know that the fan response to Varitek would be positive, just like I know that serving my kids donuts and bacon for breakfast will go over well. Also, at the risk of going there, I'm not super up for another white guy manager in a sport that is increasingly Latino, partly because of the historic bias problem but also because the team's future probably rests more with guys like Devers, Bello, Rafaela... isn't Alex Cora -- a World Champion manager, mind you -- a good bet to understand and properly connect with and command the respect of these guys? Even with the non-Latino guys. He seems like he's been broadly supported to this point, which is more than you can say for several of his non-Tito predecessors.
 

chrisfont9

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Cora managed the most successful team in Sox history. Bloom has managed to put together one playoff team. I think 23 is big for both of them.
I don't see their fates as the same. Bloom is implementing a long term plan overhauling the entire organization that isn't likely to bear fruit in 2023 (but 2024 maybe). Cora is judged on whether he managed whatever Bloom gave him well enough to keep the job. Frankly I would be horrified if the team gave either of them a one year ultimatum. GMs don't grow on trees, and Cora can only work with what the GM gives him.
 

Ganthem

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I think it's more of the general approach. His strategy seems to be "be aggressive" at the plate... which seems to be prone to all or nothing results with turns into a streaky team that can't get out of a downward spiral. I personally don't think he adjusts well or adapts to the situation. Same with bullpen management. It seems to me that he approaches every game against every opposing team with the same mentality. He's got a theory and he's sticking to it. That can work but, again, I feel it lends itself to huge blowout games and then lots of low scoring games. Spread across a season it looks good but the distribution isn't good.
I also suspect that this approach will be even more prone to extremes with the defensive changes coming up- I think batting just getting on base- slap singles hitters and high OBP guys will become more valuable.
I'm just ready to move on and was after '21 even- as far too many times I felt that the talent on the team was being screwed by Cora's bullpen management
Couldn't say it better myself .Cora's lack of adaptability is his biggest weakness.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I don't see their fates as the same. Bloom is implementing a long term plan overhauling the entire organization that isn't likely to bear fruit in 2023 (but 2024 maybe). Cora is judged on whether he managed whatever Bloom gave him well enough to keep the job. Frankly I would be horrified if the team gave either of them a one year ultimatum. GMs don't grow on trees, and Cora can only work with what the GM gives him.
One year ultimatums are generally fanciful fabrications of the media and fans, not something competent and patient team owners do. So yeah, you're right, it's unlikely there's a "hot seat" situation for either of them in 2023.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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One year ultimatums are generally fanciful fabrications of the media and fans, not something competent and patient team owners do. So yeah, you're right, it's unlikely there's a "hot seat" situation for either of them in 2023.
You don’t think they exist? Obviously management would never say that or admit to it post facto…. But they’re quite real.
 

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I get very skeptical when a managerial/head coach choice just happens to be a beloved former player. If it's an established guy who has multiple options and you can use the team connection to help lure him home, great. But if no other team would even consider him, that means "beloved former player" is his main qualification. I say this as a Georgetown fan who watched year 5 of the Patrick Ewing era result in an 0-19 Big East record.
Isn’t that sort of what Cora was? He was often rumored to be a managerial candidate but was never offered a job until the Sox did?
 

JOBU

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I’m very torn on this. I would be absolutely pumped to see him at the helm once Cora’s time is over. Yet a part of doesn’t want to see it. Varitek is basically a living legend here in Boston and a poor managerial stint would perhaps tarnish how he’s viewed? Why take this chance and muck it all up?
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Did I say they don't exist? I said competent and patient team owners don't do ultimatums. I find current ownership quite competent and patient.
I guess I disagree. There’s always a point that even the most competent manager will watch how the team performs with some additional eyes and ears over the coach.
I’d honestly be worried if there wasn’t some thinking that at least one of these years could be Cora’s (or anyones) last year if they don’t perform at a certain expected level.
 
Sep 12, 2022
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Bloom might outlast Cora. Jason Varitek might be the new manager in 2024 if Red Sox don't make the playoffs. John Henry and Tom Werner both in their 70s now. I bet they both want one more winner. Remember , average life expectancy for a male is 75. I am sure both will beat that as they super rich. Still when you are in your seventies your goals change.
 
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Manramsclan

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Also, at the risk of going there, I'm not super up for another white guy manager in a sport that is increasingly Latino, partly because of the historic bias problem but also because the team's future probably rests more with guys like Devers, Bello, Rafaela... isn't Alex Cora -- a World Champion manager, mind you -- a good bet to understand and properly connect with and command the respect of these guys? Even with the non-Latino guys. He seems like he's been broadly supported to this point, which is more than you can say for several of his non-Tito predecessors.
I don't think you are far out there with this. Being bilingual in today's game is huge. Also, I loved Tek and thought he deserved the captainship. I do, however, remember some talk about him not being ingratiating to rookies and younger players and even one instance of a player being quoted about an unhappy clubhouse saying something to the effect of "Why don't you ask the captain?" I don't love that for today's modern athlete and with all the pressures that come with today's game.
 

derekson

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I get very skeptical when a managerial/head coach choice just happens to be a beloved former player. If it's an established guy who has multiple options and you can use the team connection to help lure him home, great. But if no other team would even consider him, that means "beloved former player" is his main qualification. I say this as a Georgetown fan who watched year 5 of the Patrick Ewing era result in an 0-19 Big East record.
This also applies to Cora before he was hired, of course. Not to the same degree but he was clearly a protegé of Tito while he was on those teams as a utility player and "learning from him" while he was in the dugout.
 

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Bloom might outlast Cora. Jason Varitek might be the new manager in 2024 if Red Sox don't make the playoffs. John Henry and Tom Werner both in their 70s now. I bet they both want one more winner. Remember , average life expectancy for a male is 75. I am sure both will beat that as they super rich. Still when you are in your seventies your goals change.
I don’t want to sidetrack the thread, but the bolded is not correct.

Henry’s life expectancy needs to reflect his current age, which is 73. His average life expectancy is another 14 years, so I’m not sure that is (or should be) a significant factor in how he runs the Sox.
 

moondog80

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This also applies to Cora before he was hired, of course. Not to the same degree but he was clearly a protegé of Tito while he was on those teams as a utility player and "learning from him" while he was in the dugout.
To say that "beloved former player" applies to Cora to a lesser degree than Varitek is quite the understatement.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I don’t want to sidetrack the thread, but the bolded is not correct.

Henry’s life expectancy needs to reflect his current age, which is 73. His average life expectancy is another 14 years, so I’m not sure that is (or should be) a significant factor in how he runs the Sox.
Agreed. Talk of getting one more championship before the owner dies arguably applies to every owner in team sports regardless of age. The notion of desperation and hence motivation specifically due to age should be reserved for the guys who haven't won one at all. Like the way the Tigers behaved during the last decade or so of Mike Ilitch's life. And frankly, I'd rather not see the Sox go overboard or get impatient chasing one more title for Mr. Henry and/or Mr. Werner if the result after they're gone is what we've seen from the Tigers since 2017 when Mr. Ilitch died (.393 winning percentage).
 

Trlicek's Whip

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I get this.... but Varitek is a little different than say, Manny Ramirez, no?
I didn't think Manny Ramirez was ever interested in managing. But for actual comps Tek as a manager may be closer to Butch Hobson. Or even Ted Williams. Which would be a disaster.

As others have mentioned I would want to know how much Tek has adopted and embraced more recent trends in statistical analysis and player development in the 11 years since he was a player. There's been a generational shift in younger ballplayers, where they are from in the world, and the overall culture around MLB clubhouses and the game since 2011.

If Tek is another beloved local with dirt dog and redass and old school as special skills on his resume like Mike Matheny or Don Mattingly, and is stuck in the past during which he played, it probably won't go well. And that's all I have anecdotally to go on, since I have no idea what his personnel skills are past his playing years, nor have any record of his management experience to draw from.
 

Al Zarilla

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If he did indeed get an offer to manage the Mariners, why wouldn't he take it, get a bunch of experience there over a few years, and somehow weasel out and go back to the Red Sox. I don't know how ethical that is, or if anybody cares about ethical.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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I didn't think Manny Ramirez was ever interested in managing. But for actual comps Tek as a manager may be closer to Butch Hobson. Or even Ted Williams. Which would be a disaster.

As others have mentioned I would want to know how much Tek has adopted and embraced more recent trends in statistical analysis and player development in the 11 years since he was a player. There's been a generational shift in younger ballplayers, where they are from in the world, and the overall culture around MLB clubhouses and the game since 2011.

If Tek is another beloved local with dirt dog and redass and old school as special skills on his resume like Mike Matheny or Don Mattingly, and is stuck in the past during which he played, it probably won't go well. And that's all I have anecdotally to go on, since I have no idea what his personnel skills are past his playing years, nor have any record of his management experience to draw from.
I don’t know if I’m necessarily pro-Varitek… but he was a notorious preparer and had notes on every hitter’s strength and weakness. I assume someone like that would embrace any advantage
 

chrisfont9

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If he did indeed get an offer to manage the Mariners, why wouldn't he take it, get a bunch of experience there over a few years, and somehow weasel out and go back to the Red Sox. I don't know how ethical that is, or if anybody cares about ethical.
With that roster? If he goes to Seattle he may very well never come back. Their window is WIDE open.