Jaden Springer to Celtics for 2nd rounder

oumbi

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 15, 2006
4,248
Springer, Brissett and Walsh full-court pressing might be fun to watch someday.
And don't forget Tillman. Spring seems to be a shorter version of Tillman. I suppose PBS is thinking that given the number of scorers on the Celtics, blending in one non-scorer with great defense is passable.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
31,073
I think those workout habits change pretty drastically depending on how he's appreciated he's feeling. When he wanted to get out of Houston, I think it's pretty undeniable he was very out of shape.

But I have heard the extra time with teammates thing. Zubac said on the Paul George podcast that when Harden first got there he asked Z to stay after practice to fine tune their pick and roll and they practiced it for an hour and a half or so. Z said he thought it would be a one time thing but that they spend that type of time together after every practice
Yeah when he checks out he’s done but when he’s in he’s so connected. He was my target to replace Smart prior to the Jrue trade but knew Philly wouldn’t trade him to us. He’d have been so great w The Jays just as he is with Kawhi and PG in LA.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
18,513
Yeah when he checks out he’s done but when he’s in he’s so connected. He was my target to replace Smart prior to the Jrue trade but knew Philly wouldn’t trade him to us. He’d have been so great w The Jays just as he is with Kawhi and PG in LA.
It's clear that Harden is fine when he has at least 1 or preferably 2 other stars so he can be the #2/#3.

OKC w/ KD and Westbrook? Check.
Houston w/ Westbrook? Partial check, but not a lineup that could succeed in the playoffs.
Nets w/ Kyrie and KD? Check, until Kyrie start doing Kyrie.
Philly w/ Embiid and Maxey? Good, but the ceiling would be limited in that the lineup left nobody who could play credible defense against a playoff Butler or a Brown/Tatum combo.
LAC w/ Kawhi and PG? Check, as long as all 3 stay healthy (I'm not as bearish on that front as others).

Yes, probably would have been great with the Jays, although I personally like KP and Jrue better for defensive reasons.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 26, 2006
14,648
I get that the Sixers fans are hyperventilating for no real reason and Springer isn't some rotation-piece in the making for 2025, but it's still baffling to me the Sixers would trade anything of value to the Celtics, especially a player that has another year on his deal. I get the "clear the books" mentality, but that $4m is going to be the difference between getting and not getting ... whom? Morey's no dummy, so I'm sure there's some plan, and I get that second-round picks have a lot of relatively value nowadays, but this definitely feels like the Sixers punting on the season and, while, sure, Embiid's hurt, if he comes back healthy it's not like they couldn't make a run out of the play-in or something.

This is the type of trade that feels bad for the league.
 

mcpickl

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 23, 2007
4,564
Little surprised they took on a 4mm contract for next season, but defensive guard and defensive big was what I hoped they got at the deadline.

Bring on the playoffs.
I'm surprised by this too.

They must think they can improve his shot. If not, they'll probably be looking to dump him a year from now for tax avoidance.

But they needed a guy like this for this year. Just having an option to go to for a few minutes if Pritchard is getting steamrolled was necessary.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
49,825
Between Springer and Tillman, the C's got a lot more NBA tough. I don't know how many wins that is worth, if any at all, but having two more guys who can apply clamps to opposing problems is huge. It would be nice if either could score but if they had that capability, Brad wouldn't have been able to grab them.
 

DavidTai

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 18, 2003
1,296
Herndon, VA
I'm surprised by this too.

They must think they can improve his shot. If not, they'll probably be looking to dump him a year from now for tax avoidance.

But they needed a guy like this for this year. Just having an option to go to for a few minutes if Pritchard is getting steamrolled was necessary.
If you think FT is an indication of 3 point shooting capability, Springer's shot 80 percent careerwise from the charity stripe. Same for his college career. So there's a chance, perhaps, that they think they can correct it the way they corrected Grant and Derrick's.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
49,825
The two things that I see from his Darko are that Springer's development curve looks promising if only visually (I spared those who don't like the big graph). More importantly his defense is pretty damn sweet. He might be a good stopper in a playoff game. And yeah, there may be Marcus comps.

77851
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,934
Santa Monica
Boston Celtics grade: B

The 21-year-old Springer is an interesting pickup for the Celtics. A defensive dynamo who's averaging 2.4 steals and 1.1 blocks per 36 minutes, Springer didn't provide enough on offense to earn consistent minutes in Philadelphia. Boston is surely hoping Springer can develop as a shooter, having shot 82% at the line this season but just 8-of-37 (22%) on 3s. Because the Celtics dealt Dalano Banton to the Portland Trail Blazers in a separate deal Thursday, they didn't add appreciably to their luxury-tax bill.


Philadelphia 76ers grade: B

The Sixers will have to get something to complete this trade, likely a second-round pick that's protected if it's among the top 55. Although Philadelphia had already gotten under the tax line, moving Springer gives the 76ers more wiggle room to offer a buyout candidate like Philly native Kyle Lowry more than the veteran's minimum using their mid-level exception. Additionally, being free of Springer's $4 million salary for 2024-25 gives the Sixers more potential cap room this summer.
 

RG33

Certain Class of Poster
SoSH Member
Nov 28, 2005
7,321
CA
This is really surprsing to me. Not sure what the 6ers are doing here — but love picking him up for a flyer. If you get 10 min out of him in the postseason to lock down a hot Brunson or Dame or whomever, it was totally worth it. I suppose there is the chance that this allows Morey to pull off some magic this summer and surround Embiid with two superstars and his master plan will be revealed, but this just feels weird.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
49,825
He isn't likely to learn to shoot this season, if ever. However the Cs don't need him for that this year. They have enough top of rotation players to hide him when they need his skills.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
31,680
This is really surprsing to me. Not sure what the 6ers are doing here — but love picking him up for a flyer. If you get 10 min out of him in the postseason to lock down a hot Brunson or Dame or whomever, it was totally worth it. I suppose there is the chance that this allows Morey to pull off some magic this summer and surround Embiid with two superstars and his master plan will be revealed, but this just feels weird.
This article says that 76ers positioned themselves to be players in the buyout market. At $4.9M under the cap, they can sign likely two of anyone on the buyout market, unlike most other contenders who are above the apron and can't sign anyone who previously made over MLE.
 

chilidawg

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 22, 2015
6,398
Cultural hub of the universe
He isn't likely to learn to shoot this season, if ever. However the Cs don't need him for that this year. They have enough top of rotation players to hide him when they need his skills.
He shot well in College, (43.5% from 3 on 2 shots/game) so I think he knows how to shoot. Always been a good free throw shooter as well. Just a matter of getting the opportunities in the big league.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,934
Santa Monica
If you think FT is an indication of 3 point shooting capability, Springer's shot 80 percent careerwise from the charity stripe. Same for his college career. So there's a chance, perhaps, that they think they can correct it the way they corrected Grant and Derrick's.
FTs is a decent rule of thumb, as long as the work is put in

Going from 15' to 22' this summer means FAT STACKS for Jaden.

Even if he does zero the rest of this season (fair expectation) it's a fantastic bet by Brad.
Not only would Boston get JS for $4MM next season but RFA awaits (or a QO), so it's 1.5yrs+ of control for Boston.

Morey has his reasons but surprised he couldn't have just sent Springer to PDX, Charlotte, Detroit, Washington, or some other dumpster fire. Subjecting 76er fans to another Celtic thumping is bad business.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
31,680
Even if he does zero the rest of this season (fair expectation) it's a fantastic bet by Brad.
Not only would Boston get JS for $4MM next season but RFA awaits (or a QO), so it's 1.5yrs+ of control for Boston.
Even if Springer busts out, his contract at $4M is better for moving than Banton's minimum, which will be important next year without the ability to aggregate.
 

mcpickl

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 23, 2007
4,564
He shot well in College, (43.5% from 3 on 2 shots/game) so I think he knows how to shoot. Always been a good free throw shooter as well. Just a matter of getting the opportunities in the big league.
On the other hand, he played a lot of G League minutes the last two seasons and shot 72% from the line and 29% from three.

He’s got a lot of work to do if he’s going to be more than a defensive specialist. It’s a decent gamble for the Celtics, but I definitely get it for Philly. If Springer were a free agent this offseason, he’d surely get less than the 4M Boston now owes him. Opening up that space next summer, and just enough room to grab two buyout guys now, is pretty good business for Philly. Getting a second rounder on top of it is a bonus.
 

PedroKsBambino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2003
32,432
Celtics also may not be opposed to overpaying a bit, as they don't obviously have a $4 mil junk salary next year to trade for rookie-scale guys right? And they will not be able to aggregate.
 

Jed Zeppelin

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2008
52,162
His motions as a ball handler look pretty basic to me. Straight line drives and settles for a lot of floaters and the like for not being able to drive past his man. Spin move looks like the main thing in his bag. Offensively he definitely looks to be a developing player.

All that said I don't really care—if he is a defensive pest that's good enough for me and non-minimum salaries often have a value well beyond the direct on-court contributions. Any growth from the player will be gravy.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
35,511
He shot well in College, (43.5% from 3 on 2 shots/game) so I think he knows how to shoot. Always been a good free throw shooter as well. Just a matter of getting the opportunities in the big league.
46 total attempts from 3 in college

Shot 29% on 150 attempts in the G-league (31% on 220 if you count all the exhibitions)
Shot 24% on 42 attempts in the NBA.

I
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 26, 2006
14,648
Not sure how a third year player who has played less than 500 minutes in his career could have even the slightest impact on the league as a whole.
I just think a league where teams value future cap space over current talent is sub-optimal. Not that this particular trade is damaging. In general, I think the whole buyout/dump part of the trade deadline is a net negative for the league. I like a salary cap, in general, but I don't like structures that incentivize teams putting a worse product on the floor. Obviously, a tough needle to thread.
 

RG33

Certain Class of Poster
SoSH Member
Nov 28, 2005
7,321
CA
This article says that 76ers positioned themselves to be players in the buyout market. At $4.9M under the cap, they can sign likely two of anyone on the buyout market, unlike most other contenders who are above the apron and can't sign anyone who previously made over MLE.
Man, the corpse of Kyle Lowry being the target for moving a young player with at least one elite skill seems very anti-Morey to me. POBOBS should get an extra cookie with his milk tonight before bed!
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
31,073
Man, the corpse of Kyle Lowry being the target for moving a young player with at least one elite skill seems very anti-Morey to me. POBOBS should get an extra cookie with his milk tonight before bed!
Right? This leads to my speculation that there is so much more information that Philly knows about this player. We’ll find out soon enough.
 

PedroKsBambino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2003
32,432
Right? This leads to my speculation that there is so much more information that Philly knows about this player. We’ll find out soon enough.
Maybe? They got a decent second rounder for him and got off $4 mil guaranteed money for next year which they actually likely do care about for summer. They surely could dump him later, but not necessarily for an asset (or without attaching one possibly). So it's not nuts that Daryl just figured it's worthwhile to dump him and get something now and that while he's an ok role player he's very unlikely to matter for either team ultimately. Morey is, as we all know, all about stars and is not the presti/ainge like asset accumulator profile.

And sure- could be that he's a head case, but Celtics had two assistants with philly last year and paid real value for him so that would be a little surprising to me
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
35,511
THey got out of the tax and cleared cap next year, not sure it's more than that. Especially with Embiid out indefinitely I can see why they'd want to dodge the tax.
 

DavidTai

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 18, 2003
1,296
Herndon, VA
And sure- could be that he's a head case, but Celtics had two assistants with philly last year and paid real value for him so that would be a little surprising to me
Yeah, I'd think if Sam Cassell and the other Philadelphia guy thinks he's worth grabbing, and think the main reason he didn't really develop as much as he could have was because of Doc Rivers, then why not?

As to the Sixers, it sounded like the way the cap room would work is that they would renounce Harris and, sign a max, then sign Hield at a smaller extension compared to his cap hold, and have room for a lot more moves after that, before extending Maxey. Though I'm not sure -who- would be worth the max that would sign with Philadelphia.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
31,073
Maybe? They got a decent second rounder for him and got off $4 mil guaranteed money for next year which they actually likely do care about for summer. They surely could dump him later, but not necessarily for an asset (or without attaching one possibly). So it's not nuts that Daryl just figured it's worthwhile to dump him and get something now and that while he's an ok role player he's very unlikely to matter for either team ultimately. Morey is, as we all know, all about stars and is not the presti/ainge like asset accumulator profile.

And sure- could be that he's a head case, but Celtics had two assistants with philly last year and paid real value for him so that would be a little surprising to me
I disagree with the bolded. He’s pretty clueless on the offensive end and unplayable aside from spot minutes. You can’t play 4-on-5 anymore in this league as teams will devise ways to exploit this.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
35,511
I disagree with the bolded. He’s pretty clueless on the offensive end and unplayable aside from spot minutes. You can’t play 4-on-5 anymore in this league as teams will devise ways to exploit this.
In certain situations... sure, on the other hand in the regular season you can play those guys plenty. Mattise Thybulle is a good example.
Teams don't scheme to beat bench players in the regular season.
 

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
22,891
Pittsburgh, PA
Can someone who knows the CBA better tell me: When can the Celtics extend Springer, and for how much / how long?

I ask because I imagine the plan is to put him on the Grant Williams / Sam Hauser plan, chain him to Drew Hanlen for a bit, invest in him, and if it works out they'll want some years at below his now-improved market value before he cashes in, 3-4 years from now.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
13,393
Can someone who knows the CBA better tell me: When can the Celtics extend Springer, and for how much / how long?

I ask because I imagine the plan is to put him on the Grant Williams / Sam Hauser plan, chain him to Drew Hanlen for a bit, invest in him, and if it works out they'll want some years at below his now-improved market value before he cashes in, 3-4 years from now.
They can offer him a rookie extension for up to 5 years this summer, at any dollar amount. Summer 2025 he's an RFA.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
31,073
In certain situations... sure, on the other hand in the regular season you can play those guys plenty. Mattise Thybulle is a good example.
Teams don't scheme to beat bench players in the regular season.
Yeah but no coach of a contender is going to hand minutes to undeserving players ahead of more deserving players. If something clicks and he takes advantage of his brief opportunities than yeah but most likely he’s not going to play very much even in the regular season barring injuries.
 

chilidawg

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 22, 2015
6,398
Cultural hub of the universe
Michael Spooner at Celtics Blog had this to say:

I won’t sit here and pretend I’ve watched every minute of Springer’s career, but I was a fan of him during his draft and have seen him in spurts playing for the Sixers. One thing jumps out: that dude really, really cares about winning. There are a lot of question marks about Springer’s game, but tenacity and effort are not among them. He’s much closer to Aaron Nesmith than he is Romeo Langford when it comes to desire.
I don’t know how this Springer trade will turn out, and honestly it doesn’t matter all that much given how little the Cs gave up, but I know Springer will make the absolute most of it. He’s not the clean offensive fit that Pritchard is, but he’s got a lot more talent and upside than most 4th guards in the league. Brad’s gamble on Springer might not work, but it won’t be for lack of trying.


https://www.celticsblog.com/2024/2/9/24062742/three-leaf-clover-x-jay-vision-tatum-and-a-word-on-xavier-tillman-jaden-springer
 

The Mort Report

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 5, 2007
7,418
Concord
Cool analysis of the Springer pick and his tenure with the organization by Morey here:

View: https://twitter.com/KyleNeubeck/status/1756078094987739141?s=20


Interesting to hear him describe it as a move that's geared toward winning now with Embiid.
The concept makes complete sense, but even if Boston's pick was the only one offered for any bottom roster player, it's crazy to do this deal with probably your biggest rival who is also you're biggest roadblock in the window you are talking about. It's a low chance, but if he turns into a useful bench piece, let alone gets his shot right, it'll look terrible. I also get clearing up cap space, but if I were in his position I'd rather add a 2nd to Springer to send him somewhere else than get a 2nd from the C's.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
35,511
The concept makes complete sense, but even if Boston's pick was the only one offered for any bottom roster player, it's crazy to do this deal with probably your biggest rival who is also you're biggest roadblock in the window you are talking about. It's a low chance, but if he turns into a useful bench piece, let alone gets his shot right, it'll look terrible. I also get clearing up cap space, but if I were in his position I'd rather add a 2nd to Springer to send him somewhere else than get a 2nd from the C's.
YOu can't go into press conference and say:
"yeah we thought he'd develop faster than he has, but we needed to dump him to avoid the tax with the reigning MVP on our team".
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
31,073
YOu can't go into press conference and say:
"yeah we thought he'd develop faster than he has, but we needed to dump him to avoid the tax with the reigning MVP on our team".
While calling the Springer pick “a success” then bragging about how much they got in return.
 

The Mort Report

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 5, 2007
7,418
Concord
YOu can't go into press conference and say:
"yeah we thought he'd develop faster than he has, but we needed to dump him to avoid the tax with the reigning MVP on our team".
Sure, but my point was he should have never put himself into that position to talk about trading him to the Cs. The concept was correct, the execution was poor
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
35,511
Also of note for Morey... Pat Bev called him a liar. Said he went to Morey when Morey said they were looking at trades and asked if he was a player who might get traded and Morey flat out told him no he wasn't getting moved......
Then traded him.
Probably won't matter because money talks, but Morey probably now has the worst rep in the league of GMs. Being a ruthless guy like Ainge is one thing, but at least he was always honest with guys that anybody could go for the right deal.
 

DavidTai

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 18, 2003
1,296
Herndon, VA
Sure, but my point was he should have never put himself into that position to talk about trading him to the Cs. The concept was correct, the execution was poor
The rationale seems particularly weird - if you weren't in a position to develop him, why take him in the first place? Why not trade the pick down to the second round, etc? Or take an older college player.

As is, it feels like what happened with Nesmith - trade away two years of development and let another team finish the development. It's just weirder to trade him directly to the team that's basically ahead of you in the playoffs that -theoretically- should have the same rationale about playing time for raw talents.
 

chilidawg

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 22, 2015
6,398
Cultural hub of the universe
As is, it feels like what happened with Nesmith - trade away two years of development and let another team finish the development. It's just weirder to trade him directly to the team that's basically ahead of you in the playoffs that -theoretically- should have the same rationale about playing time for raw talents.
Theoretically, but Brad seems to think otherwise. Picked Walsh last year, JD 2 years ago, picked up Queta this offseason. Not afraid to try to develop young guys while contending. We'll see if any of them hit.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,934
Santa Monica
Theoretically, but Brad seems to think otherwise. Picked Walsh last year, JD 2 years ago, picked up Queta this offseason. Not afraid to try to develop young guys while contending. We'll see if any of them hit.
Queta(24) & Springer, had 2+ seasons of professional experience before Brad added them. Much higher floors & chance of helping the Celtics now.

That seems different than drafting Walsh/JDD in the 2nd round, a year removed from HS.

The concept makes complete sense, but even if Boston's pick was the only one offered for any bottom roster player, it's crazy to do this deal with probably your biggest rival who is also you're biggest roadblock in the window you are talking about. It's a low chance, but if he turns into a useful bench piece, let alone gets his shot right, it'll look terrible. I also get clearing up cap space, but if I were in his position I'd rather add a 2nd to Springer to send him somewhere else than get a 2nd from the C's.
Morey is out of his freaking gord. They can buy a 2nd and just trade him to PDX for a fake 2nd.

He's playing with absolute fire here, Philly fans will lose their collective minds if Jaden develops