It's Way Too Early to Talk About 2017, But What the Hell...

Papelbon's Poutine

Homeland Security
SoSH Member
Dec 4, 2005
19,615
Portsmouth, NH
Well they both have played 1B. So unless Hanley looks decent at 1B I`d think either would become the 1B before DHing.
Either could easily share the duties with Hanley to keep them both fresh. I'm in the camp that Hanely - provided the pics are legit and he's dropped some bulk - will be perfectly fine at 1B. Many here don't agree with that, so I can see the skepticism, but I'm in the boat that that kind of situation would work quite well. I'm just not sure I want them to spend $35-40M or more on a DH/1B combo.
 

Rasputin

Will outlive SeanBerry
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 4, 2001
29,508
Not here
Either could easily share the duties with Hanley to keep them both fresh. I'm in the camp that Hanely - provided the pics are legit and he's dropped some bulk - will be perfectly fine at 1B. Many here don't agree with that, so I can see the skepticism, but I'm in the boat that that kind of situation would work quite well. I'm just not sure I want them to spend $35-40M or more on a DH/1B combo.
It's just a rumor, one a year ahead of time, and frankly i don't really buy it. The one highly ranked non pitching prospect that is near major league ready happens to play first base, and we've got a much less heralded guy who is just as cost controlled. A lot can happen in a year, but I really don't think another big FA signing makes a ton of sense.
 

Yelling At Clouds

Post-darwinian
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
3,444
It's just a rumor, one a year ahead of time, and frankly i don't really buy it. The one highly ranked non pitching prospect that is near major league ready happens to play first base, and we've got a much less heralded guy who is just as cost controlled. A lot can happen in a year, but I really don't think another big FA signing makes a ton of sense.
On the one hand, I agree - it is very early to be having this discussion, and I'm not certain a splashy free agent is necessary to replace Ortiz's production (his position in the 'field' would seem spoken for). That said, though, I think signing Encarnacion or Bautista would absolutely be consistent with what we've seen from Dombrowski so far. It is early in his tenure, but it seems like - this offseason, at least - he would rather just go out and pay for an elite player even if the cost is high rather than spend less on a lesser or riskier player in the name of maximizing value. Need a starter? Break the bank for one of the best of the last few years. Need a closer? Give up two highly-touted prospects for one of the best of the last few years. I'd even argue that Chris Young is a "better" fourth outfielder than this team needs.

Now, maybe that approach was a response to this year's market and this year's team's needs and isn't really predictive of how he'll work going forward. But as of this moment - and, again, it's a little early to talk about this - I'm not sure he's going to settle for a 2017 lineup without an Ortizian power hitter penciled in. Whether Bautista or Encarnacion is the best choice for such a role is a different discussion, obviously, and one that I'm sure we'll be having all year.
 

simplicio

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 11, 2012
5,298
I'm not sure he's going to settle for a 2017 lineup without an Ortizian power hitter penciled in. Whether Bautista or Encarnacion is the best choice for such a role is a different discussion, obviously, and one that I'm sure we'll be having all year.
Good point on Dombrowski's general MO, but if last year's pre-injury Hanley is real, I don't know how you beat that for pure power hitting. And unless Henry is comfortable joining the Dodgers off the deep end of the spending pool, I have to think we're about to stop pulling from the top ranks of the FA classes and start spending on extending some of these kids instead. 2016 should be about auditioning the Travises for a regular 1b job.
 

Yelling At Clouds

Post-darwinian
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
3,444
Good point on Dombrowski's general MO, but if last year's pre-injury Hanley is real, I don't know how you beat that for pure power hitting. And unless Henry is comfortable joining the Dodgers off the deep end of the spending pool, I have to think we're about to stop pulling from the top ranks of the FA classes and start spending on extending some of these kids instead. 2016 should be about auditioning the Travises for a regular 1b job.
This is why I was saying it's early to have this discussion, as there are a lot of "known unknowns" with this situation. Sure, maybe Hanley's power surge from last April will return and maybe the move to first keeps him mostly healthy. I'll be honest - I have no idea what to expect out of him going forward. The projection systems have him as "basically Mike Napoli," which I'd be okay with. But I don't have a lot of confidence in that outcome.

As to your payroll point, I would agree, but I also would have said the same thing about this current offseason right up until the moment I saw "Red Sox sign David Price" posted on this very board. So, again, I don't know what to expect.
 

IpswichSox

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
2,794
Suburbs of Washington, DC
Bradford has several times in recent weeks been beating the Encarnacion drum. Interestingly, he's also said Bautista would not be a good fit in Boston, saying Bautista is too much like Adrian Gonzalez, i.e., clubhouse lawyer, etc.
 

Sampo Gida

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 7, 2010
5,044
With Ortiz leaving I think I would prefer a LH power bat over Bautista or Encarnacion. Chris Davis comes to mind if his price drops. Hanley at 1B, I just can't see it. its not as easy a position as many think, at least Arod said so when he aborted his attempt to play there . I can see Hanley at 3B but then what to do with Panda?. Maybe they split time at 3B and Hanley can DH some to give Papi a rest?. Its only for a year and then Hanley becomes full time DH in 2017 with Davis at 1B.

I was hoping DD would be able to move one of Panda or Hanley this offseason, but it doesn't look like its happening
 

Rasputin

Will outlive SeanBerry
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 4, 2001
29,508
Not here
On the one hand, I agree - it is very early to be having this discussion, and I'm not certain a splashy free agent is necessary to replace Ortiz's production (his position in the 'field' would seem spoken for). That said, though, I think signing Encarnacion or Bautista would absolutely be consistent with what we've seen from Dombrowski so far. It is early in his tenure, but it seems like - this offseason, at least - he would rather just go out and pay for an elite player even if the cost is high rather than spend less on a lesser or riskier player in the name of maximizing value. Need a starter? Break the bank for one of the best of the last few years. Need a closer? Give up two highly-touted prospects for one of the best of the last few years. I'd even argue that Chris Young is a "better" fourth outfielder than this team needs.

Now, maybe that approach was a response to this year's market and this year's team's needs and isn't really predictive of how he'll work going forward. But as of this moment - and, again, it's a little early to talk about this - I'm not sure he's going to settle for a 2017 lineup without an Ortizian power hitter penciled in. Whether Bautista or Encarnacion is the best choice for such a role is a different discussion, obviously, and one that I'm sure we'll be having all year.
I would argue that this year's acquisitions are a response to this team's needs, two last place finishes, and David Ortiz' last season.

I don't know who the FA pitchers are next off season, but I'd think a pitcher is a more likely target than a hitter.
 

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
55,504
deep inside Guido territory
Anything done the next 2 offseasons has to take into account the FA class after the 2018 season. As of right now, they have $97 million already committed for 2019 but if Price opts out that goes down to $66 million. I'd like them to stay flexible enough so that they have enough in the coffers to go after a hitter like Harper, Donaldson, or Machado or a pitcher such as Matt Harvey or Jose Fernandez if they happen to reach free agency.
 

soxhop411

news aggravator
SoSH Member
Dec 4, 2009
46,536
I would argue that this year's acquisitions are a response to this team's needs, two last place finishes, and David Ortiz' last season.

I don't know who the FA pitchers are next off season, but I'd think a pitcher is a more likely target than a hitter.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/03/2016-17-mlb-free-agents.html

full FA list for next offseason


Brett Anderson (29)
Clay Buchholz (32)
Andrew Cashner (30)
Jhoulys Chacin (29)
Jesse Chavez (33)
Josh Collmenter (31) — $2.25MM mutual option with a $150K buyout
Bartolo Colon (43)
John Danks (32)
Jorge De La Rosa (36)
R.A. Dickey (42)
Scott Feldman (34)
Gio Gonzalez (31) — $12MM club option with a $500K buyout
Jason Hammel (34) — $10MM club option with a $2MM buyout
Jeremy Hellickson (30)
Rich Hill (37)
Derek Holland (30) — $11MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Scott Kazmir (33) — can opt out of remaining two years, $32MM on his contract
Colby Lewis (37)
Kris Medlen (31) — $10MM mutual option with a $1MM buyout
Matt Moore (28) — $7MM club option with a $2.5MM buyout
Charlie Morton (33) — $9.5MM mutual option with a $1MM buyout
Jon Niese (30) — $10MM club option with a $500K buyout
Ivan Nova (30)
Jake Peavy (36)
Yusmeiro Petit (32) — $3MM club option with a $500K buyout (vests with 80 innings pitched)
CC Sabathia (36) — $25MM vesting option with a $5MM buyout
James Shields (35) — Can opt out of remaining two years, $44MM on current contract
Stephen Strasburg (28)
Josh Tomlin (32)
Ryan Vogelsong (39)
Edinson Volquez (33) — $10MM mutual option with a $3MM buyout
Jered Weaver (34)
C.J. Wilson (36)
Travis Wood (30)

[\quote]
 

Yelling At Clouds

Post-darwinian
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
3,444
I would argue that this year's acquisitions are a response to this team's needs, two last place finishes, and David Ortiz' last season.

I don't know who the FA pitchers are next off season, but I'd think a pitcher is a more likely target than a hitter.
Like I said, we only have a few months to go on, so I might be speaking too soon. But at the same time, I don't think Ben Cherington would have made those moves, even after two last-place finishes, even with that pitching staff, and even with Ortiz announcing his retirement. And I think the reasons for that go beyond John Henry loosening the purse strings. EDIT TO CLARIFY: that I don't mean this as a knock against either person, just saying that I think they operate differently.

As to your second point, having looked at the list, I don't see anyone other than maybe Strasburg who is a clear upgrade over the eight starters (Price, Buchholz, Porcello, Rodriguez, Kelly, Owens, Johnson, Elias - did I forget anyone?) they already have under team control (assuming they pick up Clay's option, which isn't indicated on that list for some reason), and even he comes with enough red flags that that might not be the case. Cashner, maybe? I'm not even really saying you're wrong, or that signing one of those two hitters is the way to go, only that I would be surprised if the 2017 lineup is the same as 2016's but with one of the Travises effectively replacing Ortiz.
 
Last edited:

Rasputin

Will outlive SeanBerry
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 4, 2001
29,508
Not here
Like I said, we only have a few months to go on, so I might be speaking too soon. But at the same time, I don't think Ben Cherington would have made those moves, even after two last-place finishes, even with that pitching staff, and even with Ortiz announcing his retirement. And I think the reasons for that go beyond John Henry loosening the purse strings. EDIT TO CLARIFY: that I don't mean this as a knock against either person, just saying that I think they operate differently.

As to your second point, having looked at the list, I don't see anyone other than maybe Strasburg who is a clear upgrade over the eight starters (Price, Buchholz, Porcello, Rodriguez, Kelly, Owens, Johnson, Elias - did I forget anyone?) they already have under team control (assuming they pick up Clay's option, which isn't indicated on that list for some reason), and even he comes with enough red flags that that might not be the case. Cashner, maybe? I'm not even really saying you're wrong, or that signing one of those two hitters is the way to go, only that I would be surprised if the 2017 lineup is the same as 2016's but with one of the Travises effectively replacing Ortiz.
That list of pitchers is less than thrilling. I think I'll revenue that portion of my statement based on additional info.

But the position players seem pretty set to me.

We won't be moving Betts, Bogaerts, or Pedroia. The catcher will likely be Vazquez or Swihart.

That basically means you're looking at a change among Castillo, Bradley, Sandoval, or Ramirez. Anything can happen, but I'd be surprised if it's anything more than Ramirez to first.
 

Mighty Joe Young

The North remembers
SoSH Member
Sep 14, 2002
8,464
Halifax, Nova Scotia , Canada
I didn't know this was a thing. Given that they'll be 34 and 36, respectively, in 2017, my hopes are up that they let someone else take the plunge.
Well .. It's not likely they'll have a choice between the two. Odds are pretty good one gets re-signed .. Bautista is the better player but EE will be easier to sign methinks. I bet they take a run at Bautista .. With EE as the fall back.

As for EE he really is nothing but a DH at this stage .. And that's spot is pretty well filled going forward.
 

grimshaw

Member
SoSH Member
May 16, 2007
4,231
Portland
I have no interest in having Bautista, who seems like a surly asshole from interviews I've seen, on this team.
If Encarnacion reduced his Jeffrey Leonarding around the bases, I'd think about him, but . .meh.
 

inter tatters

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
544
Sheffield, UK
I mentioned this on another thread, but isn't there a far cheaper, in-house, option of moving Hanley to DH, then using the 2 Travis' as a platoon at 1B, with Shaw also spelling Fat Panda at 3B, thereby saving money for bigger needs?

This does, of course, come with the caveat that Sam Travis continues his excellent path through the minors this year...adding a bit more power would be nice too, but we can't have everything.
 
Aug 31, 2006
133
South Acton, Mass.
Letting him DH for 150+ games seems like the best way to get the most out of Hanley Ramirez for the final two years of his contract. I can't see a more logical scenario than letting this season at 1B play out and then shifting Hanley to the DH role full time in 2017. And, frankly, if he performs so well that he has trade value again, then all the more reason I want his power bat at the DH spot. Dude loves to hit and is injury prone. Let him hit and stay off the field for as much of his contract as you can.
 

Rice4HOF

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 21, 2002
1,900
Calgary, Canada
I have no interest in having Bautista, who seems like a surly asshole from interviews I've seen, on this team.
If Encarnacion reduced his Jeffrey Leonarding around the bases, I'd think about him, but . .meh.
Living in Canada and being exposed to post game interviews after every game, I agree it would be hard to cheer for Bautista. I want no part of him. EE I wouldn't mind, but as others have pointed out, not sure we need him.
 

grimshaw

Member
SoSH Member
May 16, 2007
4,231
Portland
Living in Canada and being exposed to post game interviews after every game, I agree it would be hard to cheer for Bautista. I want no part of him. EE I wouldn't mind, but as others have pointed out, not sure we need him.
I mean - he was on the MLB Network with Millar once during Intentional Talk, and the dude didn't even crack a smile, and gave stock answers.
 

Fireball Fred

New Member
Jul 29, 2005
172
NoCa Mass.
Until we see what Hanley, Panda, and Shaw do this year, Travis too, it's hard to think about '17. My guess is Hanley at DH, as ACRS says. The possible acquisitions mentioned in this thread all seem like desperation moves, and we have no idea how desperate the FO will be. I only wish I could believe that DH was going to be the most pressing issue heading into '17.