IT to Denver

wilked

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The worst part...it isn't even really a troll job - that is pretty accurate
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Off to a good start scoring-wise. I know his limitations and he should have kept his mouth shut in Cleveland for a variety of reasons. But man I want this guy to do well and get a decent contract with a team/City that will appreciate what he does.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Seeing IT in a Lakers uniform makes me a little sick to my stomach
See, it was worse for me when he was in Cleveland. The Lakers have been bad for a long time now, and they will be for the rest of this season at least. I am just happy he gets to go play in a place where he won't be blamed if the team doesn't win a championship.
 

Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat

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See, it was worse for me when he was in Cleveland. The Lakers have been bad for a long time now, and they will be for the rest of this season at least. I am just happy he gets to go play in a place where he won't be blamed if the team doesn't win a championship.
I've hated the Lakers for my whole life. After the Yankees, they're about tied with the Canadiens for my next most despised organization in sports. Cleveland is just a short term blip. The Lakers are forever. I hate to see him wearing that uni.
 

sox311

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That's what she said.
I love Isaiah. But, man, it’s sort of eye opening watching him try to be King In The Fourth for a different team and seeing him make the same stupid plays and shots he did for us over the last two years without the attachment to the laundry.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I've hated the Lakers for my whole life. After the Yankees, they're about tied with the Canadiens for my next most despised organization in sports. Cleveland is just a short term blip. The Lakers are forever. I hate to see him wearing that uni.
It won't be long. There is no chance they re-sign him unless they completely strike out after GM James...er, I mean Koby Altman gifted them cap relief this week. Even then, I suspect he will wind up elsewhere for a pillow contract.

If I had to guess, IT7 might be courted by Golden State for a bench role - hell it may happen now if he gets bought out. I don't think he would take just any bench role but if he had the chance to come off for a team like the Warriors - especially if James sticks one more season in Cleveland, I could see it happening.

Otherwise, Thomas is headed elsewhere next year.
 

Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat

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It won't be long. There is no chance they re-sign him unless they completely strike out after GM James...er, I mean Koby Altman gifted them cap relief this week. Even then, I suspect he will wind up elsewhere for a pillow contract.

If I had to guess, IT7 might be courted by Golden State for a bench role - hell it may happen now if he gets bought out. I don't think he would take just any bench role but if he had the chance to come off for a team like the Warriors - especially if James sticks one more season in Cleveland, I could see it happening.

Otherwise, Thomas is headed elsewhere next year.
I think it will be interesting to see whether he takes a bench role with a really good team or a starting role for a really shitty team. He certainly talks about starting a whole lot.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I think it will be interesting to see whether he takes a bench role with a really good team or a starting role for a really shitty team. He certainly talks about starting a whole lot.
To be clear, I think he would go for a starting role on a crappy team but there are a select few situations where he would want to play a role for a contender. Golden State is one and I believe that were Danny to call about a "sixth man" type role, he would consider it though I think that will never happen - Thomas will never play for the Celtics again (and I know folks around here are mostly pretty happy about that).

For all the criticism leveled at him, much of it justified, those willing to put themselves in his shoes might be able to see why the guy seems to think more of himself than others do - its how he got to the NBA and how he's carved out a remarkable career despite his limitations. People like him tend to develop a thick skin and the ability to see themselves differently than others around them. Without that attribute, you have a 5'8" guy who may dominate his rec league games but nothing beyond that because they quit trying a long time ago.
 

moly99

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Almost all of the garbage teams in the NBA also have young point guards they are trying to develop. The Kings have De'Aaron Fox, the Magic have Elfriid Payton, the Hawks have Dennis Schroeder, the Mavs have Dennis Smith Jr, the Nets have De'Angelo Russell, etc. The Suns are the only team that could use him, and he is not on good terms with that franchise.

I am genuinely sad for IT. He is way too overconfident, but that also describes about 90% of pro athletes.
 

Kliq

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Almost all of the garbage teams in the NBA also have young point guards they are trying to develop. The Kings have De'Aaron Fox, the Magic have Elfriid Payton, the Hawks have Dennis Schroeder, the Mavs have Dennis Smith Jr, the Nets have De'Angelo Russell, etc. The Suns are the only team that could use him, and he is not on good terms with that franchise.

I am genuinely sad for IT. He is way too overconfident, but that also describes about 90% of pro athletes.
The Magic traded Payton to Phoenix.
 

SumnerH

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IT all smiles post game and bragging about how he “got his powers back” following a loss to one of the worst teams in basketball.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22397864/isaiah-thomas-strong-showing-los-angeles-lakers-debut-lose-dallas-mavericks
Money quote:
"He brings another dimension to what we have," said head coach Luke Walton, who was annoyed with the team's lack of defense in just the Lakers' fifth defeat in their past 17 games.
 

TiredParent

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IT (0) and Lopez (+7) were the only Lakers without a negative +/-. Not sure IT was entirely to blame for the 130 in this case.
 

Sportsbstn

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slamminsammya

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Jesus, a Celtics board really turned on IT fast. I take no joy in seeing IT struggle. Where is the loyalty? I only want the best for IT. The Lakers, on the other hand, can suck it.
 

Jungleland

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Jesus, a Celtics board really turned on IT fast. I take no joy in seeing IT struggle. Where is the loyalty? I only want the best for IT. The Lakers, on the other hand, can suck it.
Agreed. I'm sure he feels betrayed by DA (and more or less said as much in the Players' Tribune piece), but sending him to play for a real and immediate contender was at least decent consolation for squashing his dreams of being the face of the next Celtics championship team. That made me feel a lot better about the necessary but tough move of jettisoning him - I was really hoping that (and an ECF loss) would be the extent of his professional misfortune.
 

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4-for-4 from downtown sounds to me like getting his powers back.
 

djbayko

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Jesus, a Celtics board really turned on IT fast. I take no joy in seeing IT struggle. Where is the loyalty? I only want the best for IT. The Lakers, on the other hand, can suck it.
I don't know if this was partly directed at me. I definitely want him to succeed as well, especially since I know it most likely won't be with the Lakers long term. I suspect others do as well, despite their ribbing. It's just that it's impossible to to escape his flaws and that quote from Walton was definitely funny.
 

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I saw a house burn down once. It was spectacular and it was amazing watching the local fire department bust their asses to keep it from spreading to the neighbors.

It has never occurred to me in telling the story that some people migh think I was happy the house burned down.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Jesus, a Celtics board really turned on IT fast. I take no joy in seeing IT struggle. Where is the loyalty? I only want the best for IT. The Lakers, on the other hand, can suck it.
I get some Celtics fans enjoying him take lumps. The Brinks Truck comment didn't sit right with some people and he definitely perceives himself to be in a different tier of player than many NBA pundits and fans (for reasons referenced upthread). His attitude of supreme confidence also rubs people the wrong way even despite his clear limitations. Finally, he is a little guy - I suspect some basketball fans simply don't like him because of that.

That said, there are those of us who appreciate what he did while in Boston. He ushered in the team's return to relevance and, often, carried them on his back to do so. He was also a factor in getting Horford and Hayward to join the team. So while some people may choose to overlook those things, there are others who will not.

I hope he finds a team that knows how to maximize his abilities, gets paid well and wins a championship. YMMV.
 

lexrageorge

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+1 to the above. I'm not sure why anyone would wish Thomas ill, unless you really hate seeing little guys score in the NBA.

Chances are, we've seen his best season already, and the season's ahead are likely to be far worse.
 

Reardons Beard

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I'm happy for IT and wish him the best. Hell, we need need that kind of shooting on the second unit but that ship has sailed. I hope he does well and finds his truck. The Lakers can meltdown though, no problem there.
 

Van Everyman

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Can he just get the surgery? Feel like his cooked-ness is probably being emphasized by the fact that he tried to avoid the long layoff.
 

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I’m curious what the more skilled guys think, that watch the games and can a analyze more than I’m capable of, but it feels like above and beyond the injury, he just was in his perfect system in Boston and played a bit above his head. I don’t wish him any harm, sports can be a cruel business, but I do think he went overboard with the comments about getting paid and was far too salty when they traded him. I fully understand that edge is what got him to where he is, but you can’t have it both ways. If you’re down for players getting every penny (which I am) then you have to be down with the fact they are commodities (which I am). He was damaged goods and my team made out. He was here for a couple seasons and we had fun and the guy was a trooper but shut the fuck up about it, you’re not TB and in this franchise you basically meant shit.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I'm happy for IT and wish him the best. Hell, we need need that kind of shooting on the second unit but that ship has sailed. I hope he does well and finds his truck. The Lakers can meltdown though, no problem there.
Aside from no longer being protected by Smart, Bradley, and Horford defensively the REAL problem for Isaiah is that the loss of his first step is magnified by the fact that it was so crucial for him in creating separation for open looks. Right now, he isn't a good shooter at all and his handle has been atrocious.....he can't get his shot off and cannot create any separation off the dribble so get quality looks. Last night was another horrific offensive performance as his teammates are standing around waiting for Isaiah to do Isaiah things......but this current version isn't a player who can consistently create his own shot.

I expected this to occur in a 5'9 guard that relied so heavily on his quickness and explosiveness as he entered his 30's but between the hip and the layoff this timeline has been accelerated. It is painful to watch but this really isn't an NBA player right now as he kills his team on both ends of the floor. Walton will have his hands full on how to handle this situation and I don't envy him over these final 30 or so games.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Which is why I think he should just consider surgery.
I am sure he did consider it but didn't like the small sample of results of those guards who did have it performed and what it did to their NBA future. Jonny Flynn, Gerald Henderson Jr, Martell Webster, Michael Carter-Williams......not exactly an optimistic list of successful recoveries if you are a guard reliant on your physical skills. The only non-big I can recall who has had a successful return from hip surgery is Wilson Chandler. That's 1 in 5 by my count unless I missed someone.
 

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I think it was also timeline. If he was in the first year of a deal, I think he would have probably done it. He wanted to get paid and having hip surgery and being out wasn’t helping him cash in. Rehab and roll the dice.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I think it was also timeline. If he was in the first year of a deal, I think he would have probably done it. He wanted to get paid and having hip surgery and being out wasn’t helping him cash in. Rehab and roll the dice.
My point to the surgery response was that SURGERY was rolling the dice based on recent history of guards and hip surgery.
 

nighthob

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Which is why I think he should just consider surgery.
Reconstructive hip surgery (he said at one point last spring that there’s a bone deformity in his hip which doctors told him would eventually require surgery) comes with a 12-18 month recovery time from what I understand, and having it in the final season of his deal would have meant a possible two year absence from the NBA and a likely end to his career.

When we had the Lil’ Zeke debate last year I mentioned the terrible track record of sub-six footers past the age of 30 (i.e. once their quickness drops off), so his preference for rehab is logical.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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It might look bad from afar, and I don't doubt NBA players talk and are very afraid of an "IT situation".

Having said that, IT's hip is probably close to shot and has been trending that way for quite a while. His labral tear diagnosis was probably the tip of the iceberg, not a major player at this point or last year. He has bad arthritis and there is nothing the medical staff could have done last season to change that (there is a reason no one wants to operate on him at this point). If a surgery was going to be a significant help (aside from a total hip replacement), it was probably needed many years ago before he got to the Celtics.

I 100% agree players need to take their health into their own hands, and should be getting second opinions instead of blindly listening to the team doc. But I wouldn't blame the team docs in the IT case at all unless there is something else that happened that hasn't been publicized.
Radsoxfan, the Port Cellar MD of choice, posted this in the Kyrie thread. Thought it was appropriate to quote it here since IT is going to NYC to get opinions on his hip. https://sports.yahoo.com/isaiah-thomas-leaves-lakers-get-troublesome-hip-re-evaluated-013136122.html

I don't think any of this coming as a surprise to any of us but if there's a good outcome, I'm rooting for it.
 

radsoxfan

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Just heard Windhorst discussing Kyrie and talking about how IT’s missed diagnosis and mismanagement has made everyone in the NBA (and the Celtics players in particular) doubt their own medical staffs.

As I stated, getting a second opinion is often a good idea, medical staffs are not infallible or immune from internal pressures. But at the same time it does sort of feel irresponsible (or at least very irritating) to state those specific opinions as fact. Windhorst has no clue what he is talking about, has no medical knowledge, and is just parroting the opinion of others who also have no idea what they’re talking about.

I’m obviously reading the tea leaves a bit and don’t know for sure exactly what’s going on either. But it’s definitely possible (and honestly probable) for IT to have impingement and fairly advanced arthritis at his age that wasn’t avoidable by any intervention from the Celtics docs. Perhaps he has been feeling some twinges and mild symptoms since his late teens and early 20s and he never got it addressed in time. There may be some temporizing interventions that can be done at this point, but unfortunately all signs point to him never having a normal hip again. Sometimes life just sucks, and it’s not anyone’s fault.

I’d also hesitate trying to read too much into other hip surgeries on other NBA guys, especially in small samples. The type of pathology and the degree of degeneration is so critical to the outcome that just saying this handful of players did well or did poorly after hip surgery is of pretty limited value.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Isn't Windhorst pretty tied into the NBA inner circles? I always felt he had much more insight directly from inside sources than the standard local guys spewing their worthless opinion. Is this considered to not be true?

I understand HIPAA privacy laws and all but the Windhorst piece that I heard last week was directed toward NBA front offices and not necessarily anything to do with Isaiah's medicals.