Is Mac Jones the biggest bust in Patriots history?
- Thread starter Arroyoyo
- Start date
My opinion that Mac Jones is not the biggest bust in Patriots history is valid without suggesting a replacement.
Not that I think Mac is going to turn things around in the same way, but Drew Bledsoe was absolutely atrocious in his third season after leading the Pats to the playoff in year 2. Maybe as bad as Mac has been this year. He then turned it around and led the Patriots to the Super Bowl the next year and was a top 10 QB for the next 3 and a half seasons
Does anyone remember what the discourse was like around Bledsoe for that season? I first started following football in 1996 (when I was 10) so I don't have any insight into what happened to him in 1995 and how he managed to turn things around so quickly. His WR crew was pretty bad in '95 but he did have Curtis Martin and Ben Coates, so it's not like he was completely lacking in supporting offensive talent. The Pats drafted Terry Glenn in 96 and he had a great rookie season (IIRC he set a bunch of records for rookie WRs), but it's not like he was an all-time game changer, and other than that I don't think their offensive personnel changed too much from 95 to 96. (EDIT: Looks like they also added Sean Jefferson in 96, but he wasn't a great player either, just an average #2 guy.)
Does anyone remember what the discourse was like around Bledsoe for that season? I first started following football in 1996 (when I was 10) so I don't have any insight into what happened to him in 1995 and how he managed to turn things around so quickly. His WR crew was pretty bad in '95 but he did have Curtis Martin and Ben Coates, so it's not like he was completely lacking in supporting offensive talent. The Pats drafted Terry Glenn in 96 and he had a great rookie season (IIRC he set a bunch of records for rookie WRs), but it's not like he was an all-time game changer, and other than that I don't think their offensive personnel changed too much from 95 to 96. (EDIT: Looks like they also added Sean Jefferson in 96, but he wasn't a great player either, just an average #2 guy.)
N'Keal Harry is up there, only because that draft was so insanely rich in receiver talent. Even some real late-round guys panned out from that draft. Bill managed to find the one rotten MacIntosh apple in a bushel full of Sekai Ichi's.
He only missed one game and attempted 636 passes while playing with a bad shoulder all season? That's crazy that they didn't sit him down longer, clearly it was hurting his play, and it's not like they were ever in contention that year. There was no upside to playing him and he could have easily aggravated the injury.
They were expected to be in contention for a playoff spot, given their wild card appearance the prior season and the emergence of Curtis "Don't put him in Canton yet" Martin as a true franchise running back. Bledsoe separated his non-throwing shoulder early in the 3rd game of the season. He played through it for most the game, but came out late in the 4th. Zolak started the next game, which followed a bye week, but wasn't particularly effective. The injury was probably a factor early on, but the team had other glaring holes: no real receiver depth after Vincent Brisby, the OL struggled, and the defense was pretty poor.
They were also 5-7 when the calendar changed to December, and 9-7 would have been good enough for a wild card, so they were technically still in contention until the final month.
The following year, they added both Shawn Jefferson and Terry Glenn to the receiving corps to complement All-Pro tight end Ben Coates, and added depth to the OL. And they had some nice organic growth from their younger defensive players such as Ty Law, Willie McGinest, Ted Johnson, and Lawyer Milloy.
It was a massive story and controversy at the time — Parcells put Bledsoe back in the game after it was lost and he was hurt and got roasted for it. Parcells got in a screaming match at his press conference when asked about it. I still remember how hard that 49ers defense — that had won the Super Bowl the year before — was hitting Bledsoe.
I was barely following as a kid, but my brother was incensed. In other news, people who think Belichick is a jerk have often forgotten what Parcells was like as a coach.
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/1995/sep/21/bledsoe-injury-creating-a-stir/
I believe that's when Parcells did his "Players play!" bellowing in the postgame as explanation for Drew staying in the game.
Do you know who the "television reporter" Parcells was yelling at was?
I lived through all this but I have zero recollection. Of course, I don't really remember who they played three weeks ago...
Yes, more of this history please. It’s a wonder that Drew is still upright given some of the punishment he took.
As someone who was a fan of Parcells coming in, I distinctly recall him yelling, baiting, swearing, and generally being obnoxious to reporters multiple times during his press conferences. It's why many of us here laugh at the complaints around Belichick's attitude towards the media and his "dropping the mic, lol". He also responded with a "she ain't here" when someone asked about Terry Glenn's availability due to an injury, after which it became obvious that Parcells' reputation of having a limited shelf life was well deserved.
Ironically, Drew Bledsoe finished his career playing for Parcells in Dallas, with his last career pass attempt targeting Terry Glenn resulting in an interception.
It’s funny, the Boston media loved Parcells, because he was a quote machine and made their jobs easy. BB has basically given them nothing for 23 years.
This is the heart of it. They don’t care if someone is abusive/shitting all over them, as long they are providing content. BB’s tight lipped, at times dismissive approach on the other hand is a crime against humanity to many of them. 100% self serving.
To be fair, BB does make it harder for these guys to do their jobs. They probably don't like that very much.
And while I love BB, let's be honest - you can answer questions with a little more grace and kindness and still not give anything away.
The sign on the locker room:
WHEN YOU LEAVE HERE ...
* Don't believe or fuel the hype
* Manage expectations
* Ignore the noise
* Speak for yourself
BB’s style with the media may be lacking grace but it’s completely designed to uphold and model that for his players. And I think it absolutely contributed to the team’s ability to withstand all the pressure and scandal over the years. Even one of Spygate, Aaron Hernandez, Deflategate would have derailed most teams.
I agree but you can do all that and be a little nicer in your press conferences.
Hypothetical question from a reporter: "Why didn't Jones play on that last drive?"
Standard Bill answer, following a death stare: "We did what's best for the team. We're on to (insert next opponent)."
He could do the same thing by saying something like, "It's a good question and I understand why you're asking it, but I really can't get into that. Just know that as always, we are trying to make decisions that we feel are best for the team taking everything into account." And then move on to the next question.
This is still the same answer, but it's done much more kindly, much less rudely, and acknowledges that the reporter is asking a legit question. It's really not that hard to do, and it doesn't violate any of the principles you listed above. It's still the same non-answer, but done less gruffly, less rudely. Very easy to do, but he just doesn't do it.
Sure but I think that’s in part because once you go down that road you get closer to giving them the answer they want you to give. So keeping it brief and emotionless is the preferable path.
I have long suspected Belichick believes nothing good can come from the media but he knows they have a lot of power. Holley’s book said that Belichick would have an intern print out all the news and talk radio coverage every day and read it while on his treadmill.
Of course this approach is easier when you’re winning. But right now, for instance, you have Ben Volin writing a new column literally everyday about how Belichick is going to be fired for no reason other than the fact that he has no sources inside Gillette and is desperate for a new regime. So I think you can also see why Belichick does it – there’s no benefit to playing nice.
I have long suspected Belichick believes nothing good can come from the media but he knows they have a lot of power. Holley’s book said that Belichick would have an intern print out all the news and talk radio coverage every day and read it while on his treadmill.
Of course this approach is easier when you’re winning. But right now, for instance, you have Ben Volin writing a new column literally everyday about how Belichick is going to be fired for no reason other than the fact that he has no sources inside Gillette and is desperate for a new regime. So I think you can also see why Belichick does it – there’s no benefit to playing nice.
BB acts like a prick a lot. But he won, so a lot of fans got off on it.
It’s really that simple. Brady never said anything interesting either, but he rarely acted like a prick.
Acting like a prick is a choice.
It’s really that simple. Brady never said anything interesting either, but he rarely acted like a prick.
Acting like a prick is a choice.
I don't buy this at all. It's very easy to just be courteous. BB in press conferences is anything but courteous, unless you ask him about a special teams player or Lawrence Taylor.
Of course there's benefit to playing nice. When you're obnoxious (and he is in press conferences, not when he's coaching) it makes people not like you and have it out for you. So a bunch of the negative stuff about him now is due to him mistreating the press all these years and them wanting their pound of BB's flesh.
It's just not hard at all to be courteous. And there's no downside to it.
I don’t fully agree. BB is occasionally rude, but is more often curt and gruff, and sometimes warm and expansive, with the media. No he doesn’t make their jobs easier, but they would never make his job easier, either.
and I know you are captain positives and butterflies, and you got to write closely with a genuinely good and strong individual (Slater), but in my experience people will tear you apart when it suits them, no matter how nice you are, even if you sacrifice for them; people will eventually destroy you if and when they can.
of course he could have been sweeter, and kindlier…but he followed his own models and it’s got him this far. Not too bad for a football coach.
No, I mean, obviously he's been wildly successful so it's worked for him. I just think he could have gone about these press conferences in a little nicer fashion.
Again, though: think of him as a model for the rest of the team. Belichick clearly wanted to create a culture where his players never shared state secrets, or, more importantly, said things that could be used to create controversy. He probably knew that the players, not being professional PR people, would be a little warmer in general to reporters. Which they were. So by not being friendly to reporters, Belichick shows players that reporters are not our friends. So don’t get suckered in to treating them like one.
That’s why I thought the Holley bit was interesting. Belichick actually *studies* what the media is saying about the team – presumably so he can think of ways not to say anything when he’s asked.
"We're on to Cincinnati"
“I would not say I’m Mona Lisa Vito of the football world, as she was in the car-expertise area.”
"I' don't have Snapface"
He remains delusional and thus will never succeed. Just keep the second part to yourself!
View: https://twitter.com/nbcspatriots/status/1744395132718153767?s=46
View: https://twitter.com/nbcspatriots/status/1744395132718153767?s=46
I think Mac Jones is terrible, but I do think he was unlucky in the first part of the season with tipped passes that went for INTs, dropped passes that could have been caught, and the OL being a disaster. Those things are not in his control.
I think that is an uncharitable take on his comments. Which is fine, as I don’t see him back here.
Whoever said Mac has the Grayson Allen personality is spot on. "Some of it is not in my control?" When you've ruined the season with your terrible play, who don't get to add caveats and qualifications.
I’ve long thought folks here are too hard on Mac about his demeanor and comments. The “control” stuff doesn’t bother me.
However, what was pretty passive-aggressive was his bit about how some guys wouldn’t have been coming in early and staying late after they got benched. That was off-putting.
Seems obvious that he’s trying to salvage his reputation for when he’s inevitably cut this off-season. But maybe don’t do that so cravenly when talking to the Boston media.
However, what was pretty passive-aggressive was his bit about how some guys wouldn’t have been coming in early and staying late after they got benched. That was off-putting.
Seems obvious that he’s trying to salvage his reputation for when he’s inevitably cut this off-season. But maybe don’t do that so cravenly when talking to the Boston media.
He did that all season. The whole "obviously just some guys coming in early and staying late hasn't been enough" bit was thrown out multiple times in post game pressers and it was always nothing other than "hey, I'm doing my part, if everyone worked as much as I do we'd be better". Dude's always been a little weasely.
Listening to this QB refer to himself in the third person with a career record of 18-24 and a 46TD/36INT is nauseating. Steal 1,406 bases then come talk to me.
Continuing to “just try and be Mac” and “I got to get back to being Alabama Mac” IS the issue. He can’t solve his NFL problems with his college solutions.
Continuing to “just try and be Mac” and “I got to get back to being Alabama Mac” IS the issue. He can’t solve his NFL problems with his college solutions.
He's immature and doesn't take responsibility. He pretends to - way worse than saying nothing at all.
As I said somewhere else, maybe not the biggest bust, but I don't know how anyone could argue that it's not the most significant by a mile.
Maybe now they become one and the same, I don't know.
And what FL4WLESS said. Eleventy billion times.
Maybe now they become one and the same, I don't know.
And what FL4WLESS said. Eleventy billion times.
I remember on draft night in 2021, once Fields fell off and it was clear we were stuck with Mac, I yelled at the TV and into the universe cursing the decision not to move up and grab Fields and absolutely hating the pick. There's no way things end like this with Fields, regardless if he's an NFL QB or not.
I had no clue it would be the downfall of BB. I've never hated an athlete more.
I had no clue it would be the downfall of BB. I've never hated an athlete more.
I was the opposite. I thought he was a winner, a highly-intelligent kid with a good, team-first attitude. I figured the physical traits wouldn’t matter and he’d win games with his head.
Holy shit was I wrong.
Mac will be lucky if his next team is the Saskatchewan Roughriders. I hear Regina’s beautiful in someone’s mind.
I won't even be able to watch the Flintstones anymore because Fred says "Mac" all the time. Chances I ever eat another Big Mac: Zero point fucking zero.
My grandfather, Mac LeVay, was a paratrooper who fought in the battle of the bulge and the greatest man I've ever known.
A pox on the House of McCorkle, which has stained a great name forever.
Wow, that felt good.