Irrational exuberance: The Neemias Queta thread

slamminsammya

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Kornet has always been a poor rebounder. It's been a very consistent trait every year he's been in the league. His value is being an incredibly efficient scorer and a good partner in P/R. I would argue his defense is passable even though his rebounding is poor (he's also a very good shot-blocker). Also, despite the eye test, (with the exception of last season) he's never been very turnover prone.

Queta seems pretty much the opposite player. He's a low efficiency scorer and a decent rebounder. In other words, I'd take Kornet in almost every situation.
poor rebounder? last year the Celtics had a better rebounding rate with him on the floor versus off. they were one of the best rebounding teams in the league mind you.
 

DavidTai

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poor rebounder? last year the Celtics had a better rebounding rate with him on the floor versus off. they were one of the best rebounding teams in the league mind you.
I'm assuming this is because Kornet is boxing out his man, and someone else is supposed to take the opening to pick up the rebound.
This doesn't really work well when there are -two- guys crashing the boards and the other one isn't boxing out either. Scheme change needed here?
 

slamminsammya

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I'm assuming this is because Kornet is boxing out his man, and someone else is supposed to take the opening to pick up the rebound.
This doesn't really work well when there are -two- guys crashing the boards and the other one isn't boxing out either. Scheme change needed here?
maybe he's just a big seven foot guy who is good at actually grabbing rebounds?

I feel like Kornet is the victim of the highest volume of data starved arguments on this board
 

TripleOT

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Boston has not recently had success with developing a rim running athletic reserve center, with last year’s experiment, Kabengele, not able to be trustworthy enough to play real minutes due to his lack of understanding where he was supposed to be and what he was supposed to do

It’s a low bar, but Queta doesn’t seem to be clueless. I don’t know if there will be minutes for him when KP returns, but I wouldn’t mind seeing KP and AL playing a few minutes less than their 30 and 26 minutes per game if Queta could be effective.
 

benhogan

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I don’t know if there will be minutes for him when KP returns, but I wouldn’t mind seeing KP and AL playing a few minutes less than their 30 and 26 minutes per game if Queta could be effective.
Agreed.

Using a handful of, pre-All-Star game, regular season minutes to find that 3rd Center while keeping KP/Al fresh seems rather obvious.
 

InstaFace

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Scal has been pointing out screen technique lately, and the one thing he's been harping on is getting your body square to the path of the defender. If you hit them with a shoulder, you'll get an offensive foul a lot, but if you're square to them and get them with your chest (or they dodge a bit and hit your shoulder, but they hit the front of it, not the side), then the refs will put up with a little bit of a lean. I guess that's a player-safety thing so you don't get knocked into next week, but since Scal pointed that out, I've realized that's at least a somewhat-consistent line.

Like yeah, they should call the lean / slight shuffle more often, it's a bit unfair to the defense. But when something is called, more often than not it's due to poor technique. So Queta is at least putting out good technique there, except for one on this clip where I think he basically grabs the guy. If they started calling the lean, he and Al (and Bam) would have to adjust, but at least they're following the coaching they're getting, so you have reason to think that they could adjust.
 

bakahump

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Yea wide legs…..but good to see Queta is getting basically the same rule book as Bam.
 

128

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Love how hard the big guy competes, and it's nice to have a player who hoovers up rebounds.
 

TripleOT

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Queta needs to do now is go up stronger when he gets the ball near the rim, and he needs to get more comfortable catching the ball. He has come along rather quickly, feasting with all the open space there is when the bomb squad second unit perimeter players are out there.
 

Ed Hillel

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I think we can delete the word "irrational." He is a very good young player with a ton of upside. He's one of those guys that just stands out on the court because of the energy he brings, even though you can see time is needed to harness it a bit. I mentioned this in the other thread, but he reminds me of the good version of early years Aaron Nesmith in the way he plays, even though obviously they are different positions.
 

InstaFace

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He's not Time Lord, but one way he's like him is that if he's in a crowd contesting for a rebound on straight vertical alone, he seems to come down with it like 80%+ of the time. Something about the timing and the instinct of where to move his hands to corral the ball. Probably helps that he's a straight 7'0 as opposed to TL at 6'10".

His post moves seem like they're there, but he just doesn't have confidence in them yet. Even when he's got the beating of someone and they don't send help, he's still passing out of it a lot.
 

lovegtm

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I'm not ready to crown his ass yet, and certainly not going to compare him to peak TL (who was a DPOY-level gamechanger), but....

...."playable against NBA starters in the right lineups" is a big hurdle to clear, and he's starting to do that.

(I know he's a backup, but against Sac/LAC he played a lot against lineups that had lots of starters from the opponent.)
 

benhogan

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I'm not ready to crown his ass yet, and certainly not going to compare him to peak TL (who was a DPOY-level gamechanger), but....

...."playable against NBA starters in the right lineups" is a big hurdle to clear, and he's starting to do that.

(I know he's a backup, but against Sac/LAC he played a lot against lineups that had lots of starters from the opponent.)
Job Description: set solid screens up top, roll, rebound, be aggressive in the paint on defense

Bonus: he's not bad at FTs, a better perimeter defender than Kornet

SSS Alert (over his last 7 appearances - no cupcakes in there)
He has played double-digit minutes in ALL, averaging 17.5mpg, 6.9pts/7.3rebs, and been + in each game.

Basically, the Celtics are extending leads when he is given minutes as the backup 5

Cheap fungible 5 depth in the NBA is alive and well.
Don't pay up for them or else you end up like the Detroit Pistons o_O
 
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gammoseditor

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He misses a lot of bunnies. He either has no touch or he’s rushing because he’s playing his first NBA minutes and getting used to the speed. Of course he gets the rebound on so many of his misses the lack of touch may not be hurting us anyway.
 

Imbricus

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I've been on board the Queta train for a while. He is BIG, which is nice, and does seem to have good instincts for rebounding. He changes what teams do close to the basket, sort of like Rob did. I'm not sure the "missing bunnies" is a real problem; it was noticeable yesterday, but sometimes even the best players (Tatum) have stretches where they can't make layups and close-in shots. I'd like to see a fuller sample size before ruling on that point.

I had two concerns about him initially: (1) basketball IQ (2) foul propensity. He was out of position a number of times early on, playing D with the Celtics, but he's gotten better, so that may have just been a matter of getting used to the team's sets and defensive rotations. He does still tend to rack up the fouls, but not as quickly as before.

I'm excited that we were able to snatch him up after Sacramento walked away. That was a real Miami Heat-type move by Brad. He's still closer to 24 than 25 (despite kind of having resting Greg Oden face, which makes you think he might be in his mid-30s). If he can stay reasonably healthy, I think we've got a winner here. I'd like to see Brad lock him up for a few years on one of those Hauser-type contracts.

Edit: to add this from Celtics Blog. See #7, which says about Queta, "but he's still a bit raw." I can remember watching this sequence yesterday in real time, Queta vacating his position as the last line of defense to the basket just as Harden was looking to penetrate, and wondering, "What the hell is he doing?" I'm sure when they review film he'll have to watch that a few times.
 
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bigq

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He misses a lot of bunnies. He either has no touch or he’s rushing because he’s playing his first NBA minutes and getting used to the speed. Of course he gets the rebound on so many of his misses the lack of touch may not be hurting us anyway.
I liked this line from Tom Westerholm yesterday on boston.com:
Queta pads his rebounding numbers a bit by grabbing his own misses, but Celtics fans should forgive that as the premium paid for his hustle.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I liked this line from Tom Westerholm yesterday on boston.com:
Queta pads his rebounding numbers a bit by grabbing his own misses, but Celtics fans should forgive that as the premium paid for his hustle.
Two points on that:

1. I'll bet that if all of his own misses were removed from his offensive rebound totals, his rebounding numbers would still be good.
2. It's actually good to rebound your own misses. I would imagine that in overall value metrics, the padding of rebound stats is offset by the missed shots.
 

benhogan

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I'd like to see Brad lock him up for a few years on one of those Hauser-type contracts.
If they stand pat at the trade deadline, I'd guess Boston adds Queta to the 15-man (he's still on a 2-way).

Banton, Stevens, Svi, Brissett, Queta, & even Peterson are all in the running for multi-year cheap gtd NBA contracts depending on performance this season. While heavily criticized by the NBA Media for a lack of depth, Brad has leaned into 24-26 year-old grown players to fill out the deep bench. All are performing defined roles while giving Brad an up-close look to see if they "fit-in" & are worthy of offers.
 

bigq

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If they stand pat at the trade deadline, I'd guess Boston adds Queta to the 15-man (he's still on a 2-way).

Banton, Stevens, Svi, Brissett, Queta, & even Peterson are all in the running for multi-year cheap gtd NBA contracts depending on performance this season. While heavily criticized by the NBA Media for a lack of depth, Brad has leaned into 24-26 year-old grown players to fill out the deep bench. All are performing defined roles while giving Brad an up-close look to see if they "fit-in" & are worthy of offers.
I think I read somewhere recently that Kornet is on a non-guaranteed contract and if he remains on the roster on January 10 the contract becomes guaranteed. Are there any limitations that would prevent the Celtics from adding Queta to the 15 man roster and giving Kornet a guaranteed contract?
 

benhogan

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I think I read somewhere recently that Kornet is on a non-guaranteed contract and if he remains on the roster on January 10 the contract becomes guaranteed. Are there any limitations that would prevent the Celtics from adding Queta to the 15 man roster and giving Kornet a guaranteed contract?
Currently, Kornet is one of the 14 and Brad has an open spot, so Queta could be added post-LK guarantee.

You want a plethora of fungible 5s on the roster. Centers live under the rim, especially in drop coverage, and withstand the rigors of freak athletic WINGs trying to throw down at the rim nightly.
 

lovegtm

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I think I read somewhere recently that Kornet is on a non-guaranteed contract and if he remains on the roster on January 10 the contract becomes guaranteed. Are there any limitations that would prevent the Celtics from adding Queta to the 15 man roster and giving Kornet a guaranteed contract?
Yes, Kornet can be cut by Jan 10th.
 

bigq

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Two points on that:

1. I'll bet that if all of his own misses were removed from his offensive rebound totals, his rebounding numbers would still be good.
2. It's actually good to rebound your own misses. I would imagine that in overall value metrics, the padding of rebound stats is offset by the missed shots.
Agree. I thought it was a funny line. I love his energy and of course he should be trying to grab his misses particularly given that most of his shots are within a few feet of the basket.
Currently, Kornet is one of the 14 and Brad has an open spot, so Queta could be added post-LK guarantee.

You want a plethora of fungible 5s on the roster. Centers live under the rim, especially in drop coverage, and withstand the rigors of freak athletic WINGs trying to throw down at the rim nightly.
Thanks for confirming. I think if I were PBS I would want both Queta and Kornet on the roster as insurance for KP/Al. Big men break down and having multiple capable bodies to plug and play with throughout the season makes sense.
 

benhogan

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Agree. I thought it was a funny line. I love his energy and of course he should be trying to grab his misses particularly given that most of his shots are within a few feet of the basket.

Thanks for confirming. I think if I were PBS I would want both Queta and Kornet on the roster as insurance for KP/Al. Big men break down and having multiple capable bodies to plug and play with throughout the season makes sense.
Yea it would be nice to reward Queta, since he is providing needed depth for Boston.

He has lived as a 2-way player for 3 seasons now, I'm not sure what the 2-way pay is but a gtd NBA contract is HUGE for these guys.

In that vein, a Merry Christmas to all on SoSH.
 

bigq

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Yea it would be nice to reward Queta, since he is providing needed depth for Boston.

He has lived as a 2-way player for 3 seasons now, I'm not sure what the 2-way pay is but a gtd NBA contract is HUGE for these guys.

In that vein, a Merry Christmas to all on SoSH.
I think a 2 way contract for 2023/24 is $560K and the NBA minimum with two years of experience is just over $2M. I don't have a good understanding of when guaranteed vs non-guaranteed are used.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Thanks for confirming. I think if I were PBS I would want both Queta and Kornet on the roster as insurance for KP/Al. Big men break down and having multiple capable bodies to plug and play with throughout the season makes sense.
No doubt they are occupying two roster spots that will be filled by bigs. If Brad doesn't upgrade at the deadline they will both certainly be here for the remainder of the year. If we do use that spot on an Olynyk-type somehow one of them very well may not be here.
 
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InstaFace

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I liked this line from Tom Westerholm yesterday on boston.com:
Queta pads his rebounding numbers a bit by grabbing his own misses, but Celtics fans should forgive that as the premium paid for his hustle.
He also had a putback dunk on someone else's miss yesterday, which is not part of the job description of Horford and seems far rarer for Porzingis than it should be, so it's nice to see it done to the other team rather than against us for a change.
 

Imbricus

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He also had a putback dunk on someone else's miss yesterday, which is not part of the job description of Horford and seems far rarer for Porzingis than it should be, so it's nice to see it done to the other team rather than against us for a change.
Amen. We've been the victim of too many putback dunks this year. Right now, I like Queta over Kornet, but the nice thing is, they bring different things, so I could see either being used as the matchup warrants.
 

sonofgodcf

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I've been on board the Queta train for a while. He is BIG, which is nice, and does seem to have good instincts for rebounding. He changes what teams do close to the basket, sort of like Rob did. I'm not sure the "missing bunnies" is a real problem; it was noticeable yesterday, but sometimes even the best players (Tatum) have stretches where they can't make layups and close-in shots. I'd like to see a fuller sample size before ruling on that point.

I had two concerns about him initially: (1) basketball IQ (2) foul propensity. He was out of position a number of times early on, playing D with the Celtics, but he's gotten better, so that may have just been a matter of getting used to the team's sets and defensive rotations. He does still tend to rack up the fouls, but not as quickly as before.

I'm excited that we were able to snatch him up after Sacramento walked away. That was a real Miami Heat-type move by Brad. He's still closer to 24 than 25 (despite kind of having resting Greg Oden face, which makes you think he might be in his mid-30s). If he can stay reasonably healthy, I think we've got a winner here. I'd like to see Brad lock him up for a few years on one of those Hauser-type contracts.

Edit: to add this from Celtics Blog. See #7, which says about Queta, "but he's still a bit raw." I can remember watching this sequence yesterday in real time, Queta vacating his position as the last line of defense to the basket just as Harden was looking to penetrate, and wondering, "What the hell is he doing?" I'm sure when they review film he'll have to watch that a few times.
I was shocked when I learned he was only 24, and started referring to him as Greg Oden. Glad to see I'm not the only one.
 

TripleOT

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Nice recap of Queta's play vs. the Warriors

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gK1zMVqRr8
Great stuff here. Thanks for posting it. Kornet has been effective as a third center, but he can’t provide the kind of activity that the nimble Queta can. His pick setting has been much better than I expected (probably from PTSD over thinking that Kabengele could have been effective in this roll).

Hopefully Queta can keep this high level of play against the Lakers in that high profile matchup.
 

InstaFace

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I've seen Kornet do some of that, but only recently and only in small bursts, and which caused an outpouring of excitement in the game thread. Queta does that as a default setting.
 

oumbi

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I like Queta as a Celtic and think he extends the bench. But, at least for now, he is a third string center who is still new to the NBA (29 games). That Davis used and abused him is not surprising. I do think that with some more experience he will be better.
 

PedroKsBambino

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AD, when on, is a beast and Queta has nowhere near the skill set to do anything about it.

The Celtics biggest defensive risk though is precisely that—-a top big who they don’t have enough minutes to stop
 

InstaFace

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Queta had a bit of Kendrick Perkins disease tonight: gets the ball under the rim and instead of going straight up with it - as I recall Kornet saying he's been implored to do by coaches - he dribbles as a first instinct, and thereby loses his momentary window of time to get a layup or dunk. Meanwhile, Kornet is in there making immediate decisive movements. Was quite the contrast. Queta still did some useful things but the value-add of Kornet was nicely on display, and couldn't have come at a more opportune time than with our top 2 centers out.
 

lovegtm

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Queta had a bit of Kendrick Perkins disease tonight: gets the ball under the rim and instead of going straight up with it - as I recall Kornet saying he's been implored to do by coaches - he dribbles as a first instinct, and thereby loses his momentary window of time to get a layup or dunk. Meanwhile, Kornet is in there making immediate decisive movements. Was quite the contrast. Queta still did some useful things but the value-add of Kornet was nicely on display, and couldn't have come at a more opportune time than with our top 2 centers out.
Yeah, you can see the ways in which Kornet is (imo) clearly a better NBA center, even if Queta is improving somewhat.
 

joe dokes

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Is that what inspired him to tip the later jump ball directly to himself? Cut out the middleman?
 

RSN Diaspora

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The +/- number is a deeply flawed metric, but Neemias led the team last night with a +15 and it helps explain why it felt like he way outplayed an otherwise unremarkable stat line (4 pts, 1 reb, 1 assist, 2 blocks). Count me in the Quet-anon (or is it al-Queta?) cult.