Ime Udoka suspended for the 22-23 season

AlNipper49

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The Lakers has Kobe on a rape spree and now have a statue of him. ESPN loved the rape so much they somehow still manage to get a Kobe front page headline once a month. Lots and lots of people love rape.
Is Director of Player Development a subordinate to Head Coach? Given that she's the only female staffer it seems likely it was with her and the power dynamic doesn't seem quite as clear in that case
There are a lot of other females that work there.
 

Ale Xander

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So I’m not sure how much of this is out there yet, and I’m working so I wasn’t able to read the last few posts yet.

This is related to a woman that previously worked as Pagliuca’s assistant. She is a very close family friend of his. She was no longer with the team, but working in a contracted capacity doing business analysis. She is married with children and the personal relationship with the owner is a major factor in the response. Ime may be out of here when all is said and done, but he said to brace for a lengthy suspension. All I’ve got right now but it is from somebody directly connected to the team.
A question for the attorneys here:

Does the case of her being a contractor give Ime a stronger case for wrongful termination if they were to fire him?
 
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NDame616

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Is Mazzulla the best hire considering what Ime is getting suspended for?

https://www.timeswv.com/sports/father-says-mazzulla-getting-treatment/article_84aa5402-9510-5fbc-8b5f-e52c80b9be17.html
Mazzulla, from Johnston, R.I., was arrested and charged with domestic battery after an incident at de Lazy Lizard nightclub in Morgantown. Mazzulla allegedly grabbed a woman by the neck at the bar.

The alleged incident occurred on April 18 and the criminal complaint was filed on April 19. Mazzulla was arraigned last Friday and released on a $5,000 personal recognizance bond.

It was the second arrest for Mazzulla within a year. Last summer, while attending a Pittsburgh Pirates game, he and teammate Cam Thoroughman became involved with security personnel. He pleaded guilty to charges of public intoxication and disorderly conduct.
 

jasail

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So I’m not sure how much of this is out there yet, and I’m working so I wasn’t able to read the last few posts yet.

This is related to a woman that previously worked as Pagliuca’s assistant. She is a very close family friend of his. She was no longer with the team, but working in a contracted capacity doing business analysis. She is married with children and the personal relationship with the owner is a major factor in the response. Ime may be out of here when all is said and done, but he said to brace for a lengthy suspension. All I’ve got right now but it is from somebody directly connected to the team.
If true, this is a terrible look for ownership. Given her position, its distance from the HC office, and her relationship to Pags this looks retribution. I think this would sit poorly with the players.
 

Erik Hanson's Hook

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So I’m not sure how much of this is out there yet, and I’m working so I wasn’t able to read the last few posts yet.

This is related to a woman that previously worked as Pagliuca’s assistant. She is a very close family friend of his. She was no longer with the team, but working in a contracted capacity doing business analysis. She is married with children and the personal relationship with the owner is a major factor in the response. Ime may be out of here when all is said and done, but he said to brace for a lengthy suspension. All I’ve got right now but it is from somebody directly connected to the team.
Ahh. Now it's starting to make sense. Hit a little too close to home for Pagliuca, so he brought out the pitchforks.

Just completely bungled, all the way around.
 

Van Everyman

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So I’m not sure how much of this is out there yet, and I’m working so I wasn’t able to read the last few posts yet.

This is related to a woman that previously worked as Pagliuca’s assistant. She is a very close family friend of his. She was no longer with the team, but working in a contracted capacity doing business analysis. She is married with children and the personal relationship with the owner is a major factor in the response. Ime may be out of here when all is said and done, but he said to brace for a lengthy suspension. All I’ve got right now but it is from somebody directly connected to the team.
If this is true, wouldn't Pags have to recuse himself? And if true, what a petty thing to do. It sounds like two adults made a decision and, because Pags is buddies with her hubby, he's out for blood over the cuckolding.

I think I'm beginning to understand why this organization can't get out of its own way.

This is not to excuse what happened, but... when did the Celtics become so dysfunctional in key areas of leadership and accountability?
Agreed, if this is the case, and nothing more, I don't know how you suspend the coach for up to a year for this. I mean, is it even against organizational rules to have a relationship with a contractor? And if so, it doesn't appear to be a serious violation.

That said, I don't know that there's any evidence outside of the potential of this story that the team is "dysfunctional in key areas of leadership and accountability." In what regard?
 

Light-Tower-Power

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So I’m not sure how much of this is out there yet, and I’m working so I wasn’t able to read the last few posts yet.

This is related to a woman that previously worked as Pagliuca’s assistant. She is a very close family friend of his. She was no longer with the team, but working in a contracted capacity doing business analysis. She is married with children and the personal relationship with the owner is a major factor in the response. Ime may be out of here when all is said and done, but he said to brace for a suspension. All I’ve got right now but it is from somebody directly connected to the team.
If true, I’m pretty torn. On one hand Ime is an absolute fucking idiot for getting involved with Pagliuca’s close family friend. On the other hand, if she doesn’t even work for the team, it seems like the suspension would be more because of her relationship with Pagliuca than any kind of power dynamic issue. If true.
 

Ale Xander

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mostman

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And perhaps that explains why he isn’t being terminated. Do NBA coaches have a union representing them?
 

Mugsy's Jock

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AlNipper49

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Agreed, if this is the case, and nothing more, I don't know how you suspend the coach for up to a year for this. I mean, is it even against organizational rules to have a relationship with a contractor? And if so, it doesn't appear to be a serious violation.

That said, I don't know that there's any evidence outside of the potential of this story that the team is "dysfunctional in key areas of leadership and accountability." In what regard?
The response, yet, it's a function of anything. There are a lot of things to consider and it's extremely common practice to suspend an employee while an investigation is ongoing. At some point they may need to be defend the termination and the process in court. If their gut is to fire him they'll need to wait for their legal advisors to be completely 100% on board.
 

NDame616

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Yes the Mazulla stuff happened awhile ago, but we've seen people lose their jobs for stuff they did 15 years ago before.

I'm not saying it can or should impact his employment, but if he is named the coach this will all come up.
 

RG33

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All speculation still, but this does seem like a whole nother can of worms if this woman is a contractor — and the white billionaire owner is suspending the black head coach for 1 year for banging a white married woman whom he is friends with. What a fucking mess if true.
 

NDame616

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To be fair here... the incident in question took place 13 years ago, in 2009. Entirely possible that Mazzulla has gotten his shit together since then.

Important detail the poster neglected to include.
And how many times have you seen careers completely get derailed when details of a past transgression come up?

I wasn't implying it was recent, but the story will get legs if he's named coach. The public doesn't care who the assistants are. The media doesn't. They don't do the leg work on them. However, it's different when he becomes the face of a team
 

E5 Yaz

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So, a close personal friend of Pagliuca, who apparently no longer works for the Celtics, can't enter into a consensual relationship unless he approves?
 

jasail

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And perhaps that explains why he isn’t being terminated. Do NBA coaches have a union representing them?
If the speculation here is true, this ownership group just went nuclear on its own team.

Popular African American coach suspended for homewrecking relationship with owner's friend and team contractor. Rather than fire coach, team places on 1-year suspension to avoid potential wrongful termination suit. Concurrently, they slow leak this to the media tarnishing the coach's reputation without a word from the team, perhaps hoping this and the suspension will force him to resign and absolve them of getting their hands dirty. Meanwhile, the interim coach is likely a guy that strangled a woman in a bar. If I'm JB or JT, I'm asking for a trade out of this circus.

I'm not trying to absolve Ime of his recklessness. Pursuing this relationship and violating the team's code of conduct was not correct and is punishable. The bigger story here, imo, is the extent to which ownership is seemingly mishandling this and the potential for this to blow up in their face.
 

JFK35

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This is a pretty gross post in a lot of respects, but also none of this matters. If the Celtics have a Code of Conduct and if this was a Code of Conduct violation (which reports seem to indicate) then Ime needs to be punished. You can't have a Code of Conduct that says these kinds of relationships are not allowed and then ignore the Code when something like this happens.

And Codes of Conduct exist precisely to avoid the hair splitting you are engaging in in your post over who pursued who. You just can't do it, period.

I run investigations into these kinds of relationships at my company more often than I'd like to. If this happened here, the person in the leadership position would be fired, period. I'm not saying that's the right punishment here, but it isn't out of the realm of possibility either.
I’m not saying it wasn’t a bad decision. It was but you’re making him out to be Harvey Weinstein or Bill Cosby

And to me the degree of the infraction is reduced if she perused him. Although to be honest I don’t think she did anything wrong and while I think what he did was wrong it’s minor in nature.

If she declared the relationship was totally consensual with absolutely no pressure or manipulation (directly, implied or otherwise) then it’s not the earth shattering infraction all the puritans with pitch forks in this thread are making it out to be.
 
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jose melendez

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So I’m not sure how much of this is out there yet, and I’m working so I wasn’t able to read the last few posts yet.

This is related to a woman that previously worked as Pagliuca’s assistant. She is a very close family friend of his. She was no longer with the team, but working in a contracted capacity doing business analysis. She is married with children and the personal relationship with the owner is a major factor in the response. Ime may be out of here when all is said and done, but he said to brace for a lengthy suspension. All I’ve got right now but it is from somebody directly connected to the team.
If that's true, it's insanely stupid and he should be suspended none for it, and should sue the team.

I can't imagine it's that stupid... I hope.
 

Jimbodandy

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Let's wait and see the details, but this friend of Pagliuca story is gross. They'll be hiring Danny back in two years to do another rebuild, if Ime is whacked or long-suspended for something that's not really improper. Don't get me wrong, if he's stepping out it's no good, but the team has no business there. Steve's personal assistant slash part time BA does not have a power imbalance with the head coach.
 

Ale Xander

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All speculation still, but this does seem like a whole nother can of worms if this woman is a contractor — and the white billionaire owner is suspending the black head coach for 1 year for banging a white married woman whom he is friends with. What a fucking mess if true.
This where I am too. Especially given the reputation (perhaps false) of the city and recent LJ comments.

Do we know she is white?
 

jezza1918

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I’m not saying it wasn’t a bad decision. It was.

But to me the degree of the infraction is reduced if she perused him. Although to be honest I don’t think she did anything wrong and while I think what he did was wrong it’s minor in nature.

If she declared the relationship was totally consensual with absolutely no pressure or manipulation (directly, implied or otherwise) then it’s not the earth shattering infraction all the puritans with pitch forks in this thread are making it out to be.
But even if we assume you're bolded is true...one of the main reasons HR would impose a rule along the lines of "no inter office affairs, especially with subordinates" is to specifically avoid the conversation taking place in this thread. NO one knows 100% outside of the two people in the relationship if there was any pressure or manipulation. The rule exists to create a black or white line in the sand to avoid grey areas. As I stated upthread, Ime and the woman in question could end up getting married and it wouldn't alter the fact that he knowingly broke a rule set forth by HR...a rule that most likely is under a headline reading something along lines of "the following list of infractions could be ground for dismissal."

All that said, if the contractor/Pagliuca angle ends up being true, it's going to really come back to haunt the team I think. Pretty terrible look.
 

jasail

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Let's wait and see the details, but this friend of Pagliuca story is gross. They'll be hiring Danny back in two years to do another rebuild, if Ime is whacked or long-suspended for something that's not really improper. Don't get me wrong, if he's stepping out it's no good, but the team has no business there. Steve's personal assistant slash part time BA does not have a power imbalance with the head coach.
It appears there is a power imbalance, just running in the opposite direction than we would assume.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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Agreed, if this is the case, and nothing more, I don't know how you suspend the coach for up to a year for this. I mean, is it even against organizational rules to have a relationship with a contractor? And if so, it doesn't appear to be a serious violation.

That said, I don't know that there's any evidence outside of the potential of this story that the team is "dysfunctional in key areas of leadership and accountability." In what regard?
Maybe that's not the right phrase to use but I can't think of a better way to put it. Letting personal relationships outside of the workplace dictate how you run your workplace does not seem like inspiring leadership or sound strategy. And if Wyc is on board or, worse, washing his hands of it, then it looks like nobody wants to be the guy to tell the billionaire owner to mind his own fucking business, literally. And this was a Brad Stevens hire, and I'm sure he isn't thrilled about who his head coach chose for a post-separation relationship, so I don't see him being okay with this decision either.

I'll also go out on a small limb and say the phone calls are coming from inside the house in terms of the leak. If it's not Pagliuca himself, then it's someone doing it with his blessing. There's no other way it wouldn't have been plugged by now.
 

PedrosRedGlove

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I’m not saying it wasn’t a bad decision. It was but you’re making him out to be Harvey Weinstein or Bill Cosby

And to me the degree of the infraction is reduced if she perused him. Although to be honest I don’t think she did anything wrong and while I think what he did was wrong it’s minor in nature.

If she declared the relationship was totally consensual with absolutely no pressure or manipulation (directly, implied or otherwise) then it’s not the earth shattering infraction all the puritans with pitch forks in this thread are making it out to be.
No one called him a serial rapist. It's honestly strange you can't see the gap between this situation and that level of accusation. Your responses are bordering on bizarre at this point dude.

There's implied pressure by default in the situation, it's not a subjective matter.
 

boca

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If this new speculation is true then this is such a bad look for the Celtics.

This will have massive consequences for the organization.

Everything about it is bad.
 

EvilEmpire

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Why does it matter if it was a contractor working for the team as opposed to permanent staff? Aren't cheerleaders and probably lots of other people associated with the organization considered independent contractors? Wouldn't any organizational guidance on relationships or what could be considered inappropriate behavior include them?
 

E5 Yaz

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Why does it matter if it was a contractor working for the team as opposed to permanent staff?
Okay, I read the first "contractor" post as meaning she worked directly for Pagliuca, not for the team. Not much difference, probably.
 

Caspir

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This where I am too. Especially given the reputation (perhaps false) of the city and recent LJ comments.

Do we know she is white?
She is white, and he brought that up (along with her faith and the number of kids they have) without me asking, which made me think he was regurgitating something he heard first hand. If his story is true, and I have no reason not to believe him, then there are a few undertones to this that make it feel very gross.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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A question for the attorneys here:

Does the case of her being a contractor give Ime a stronger case for wrongful termination if they were to fire him?
Sorry if this has been covered, but most corporations' code of conduct governs contractors as well as employees.

My company has a rule that if a manager is in a relationship with a subordinate, they have to disclose it to HR for reasons covered in this thread. We have had countless training sessions on this. People who don't have that dynamic don't have to disclose any such relationship.

I would imagine this is very common practice.
Not that this matters anymore, but your company's policy is lenient. My company has a ban on relationships between senior/subordinate and any intra-company relationship is supposed to be disclosed.
 

Jimbodandy

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Why does it matter if it was a contractor working for the team as opposed to permanent staff? Aren't cheerleaders and probably lots of other people associated with the organization considered independent contractors? Wouldn't any organizational guidance on relationships or what could be considered inappropriate behavior include them?
If she works directly for Steve, there's no power imbalance with Udoka. Udoka doesn't decide whether she gets promoted and such. So fine, maybe Ime knew the rules and kind of has himself to blame and all that, but the deed itself is not inherently gross. So it looks like the owner is suspending him because he's pissed and is enforcing a silly, arbitrary rule. That's how I see it anyway, and I imagine that the players will too.

edit: caveat of course, "if this is true"
 

EvilEmpire

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Okay, I read the first "contractor" post as meaning she worked directly for Pagliuca, not for the team. Not much difference, probably.
Yeah, it's fuzzy. I read it as she previously worked directly for Pagliuca but now did work for the Celtics as a business analyst contractor.

This is related to a woman that previously worked as Pagliuca’s assistant. She is a very close family friend of his. She was no longer with the team, but working in a contracted capacity doing business analysis.
 

Caspir

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Has anyone seen anything out there w/r/t what @Caspir posted?

(not doubting him, just saying that it's one heck of a scoop on his part)
I'm not even sure it is out there. This guy is very tightly connected to the team, and it would be a major fuck up if he was saying this stuff to people just to talk. We are not besties or anything, we just happen to talk, so if he told me, he is definitely running his mouth to other people. He would be committing career suicide.
 

lexrageorge

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Most companies do extend their workplace harassment policies to contractors as well. It could be a grey area if she was hired by Pagliuca in a non-team context (say to clean his house), but don't really have enough info to make a real judgment. If she was doing business analytics for the team, then the standard workplace policies would apply.

Not a good look, but hardly indicative of dysfunction among the ownership; lots of people reflexively blaming people here without anything to back them up.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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If she works directly for Steve, there's no power imbalance with Udoka. Udoka doesn't decide whether she gets promoted and such. So fine, maybe Ime knew the rules and kind of has himself to blame and all that, but the deed itself is not inherently gross. So it looks like the owner is suspending him because he's pissed and is enforcing a silly, arbitrary rule. That's how I see it anyway, and I imagine that the players will too.
And the fan base. People are going to go apeshit if it turns out that the perfect coach for this team got suspended because Pags is pissed he banged his friend.