Ime Udoka suspended for the 22-23 season

AlNipper49

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The interviewer said that, and Matt Barnes did agree with it, but it's a slightly different nuance than if Matt Barnes had mentioned that.

It's weird, it's hard for me to imagine why it would matter so much who it was, vs. what exactly went down. Or to put it better, who in the organization would be so egregious to get that kind of reaction from Matt Barnes? Owner's wife? Player's wife? Because simply having an affair with a travel secretary doesn't seem like that would get him a year's suspension and unlikely to coach again - unless of course there was other bad stuff around that relationship. It seemed like that was the assumption from last week, but this interview seems to spin things a little differently. Hard to read the tea leaves.
I am around a ton of employee investigations. The simple answer is almost always the answer. The only things that we are fairly certain of is that the investigation started a few weeks before we knew of anything and that it resulted in an almost unprecedented suspension. It’s likely that the husband of his affair partner found out, did the right thing and exposed the affair to his employer (chances are he used some company resources to conduct the affair). Once he did that it put the Celtics in some level of legal concern, at the very least some level of reputation loss. They likely did what they had to - contacted their legal team. That legal team likely suggested a ‘paid’ suspension where Ime was still a 100% employeee but likely had some level of oversight to his performance and definitely his electronic communications. This bought the Celtics and their team to run a ‘full investigation’ - and good on them actually running a full investigation because many, many entities will just do a lip service investigation. They investigated and probably found what was bad enough stuff to indicate that they were just touching the tip of the iceberg, as lame corporate types would say. Without the entire iceberg being seen their legal counsel would have suggested the most serious punishment they would still give the Celts ground to stand on if Ime or the court of public opinion came after them. Some enterprising young person suggested a year ban, everyone on the call agreed and here we are. Wyc and Brad went home and hammered down 5 bourbons knowing they were the ones that would have to deliver this message. They had little time to prepare before the story took on a life of its own, thus Brad with his uncharacteristic candor.
 

AlNipper49

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Also: Barnes is saying he raped someone or was with someone underage. He just can’t say it. That means he’s not 100% sure of his source and he doesn’t want to be lined up for libel.
 

radsoxfan

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Also: Barnes is saying he raped someone or was with someone underage. He just can’t say it. That means he’s not 100% sure of his source and he doesn’t want to be lined up for libel.
I wonder who is feeding Barnes all the info….

Seems clear to me that whatever initiated the legal review was not, in the end, the most egregious year long suspension causing act.

I doubt they knew in July Ime was going to be gone.
 

Riconway3155

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Also: Barnes is saying he raped someone or was with someone underage. He just can’t say it. That means he’s not 100% sure of his source and he doesn’t want to be lined up for libel.
Isn’t that criminal though? I feel like the authorities would be involved and this story would be out already if that was the case. Also the NBA said it was “team related” and if it was THAT bad, wouldn’t they be stepping in?
 

Cesar Crespo

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Also: Barnes is saying he raped someone or was with someone underage. He just can’t say it. That means he’s not 100% sure of his source and he doesn’t want to be lined up for libel.
I don't know. That seems bad enough that they just fire him on the spot because if that gets out, he's toxic. I get the financial concerns but the Patriots did it with Hernandez. You have to. Otherwise the narrative is "they only suspended him a year until the story came out. They were trying to cover it up."

And the story goes from the C's doing the right thing to doing the wrong thing. Raping a minor is not a 1 year suspension. It's prison time.

If that's what he's guilty of, this whole thing is gross. Why protect a pedophile? Or ephebophilia or w/e the term is.
 

EvilEmpire

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Something not illegal that could destroy his ability to coach the team or compromise him coaching another is if Udoka was messing around with a player's wife or girlfriend.

Also the kind of rumor that could be floating around player channels that Barnes would have access to.

I seriously doubt Udoka would be that stupid. But I agree that Barnes' comment about "who" is kind of an odd one.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Something not illegal that could destroy his ability to coach the team or compromise him coaching another is if Udoka was messing around with a player's wife or girlfriend.
That was my original thought but if it was a player, we'd have heard all about it I think. Or a higher up Celtics employee.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I guess the 2nd part of that statement was someone underaged but that doesn't necessarily mean illegal if by underage they just mean 18.
 

AlNipper49

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I don't know. That seems bad enough that they just fire him on the spot because if that gets out, he's toxic. I get the financial concerns but the Patriots did it with Hernandez. You have to. Otherwise the narrative is "they only suspended him a year until the story came out. They were trying to cover it up."

And the story goes from the C's doing the right thing to doing the wrong thing. Raping a minor is not a 1 year suspension. It's prison time.

If that's what he's guilty of, this whole thing is gross. Why protect a pedophile? Or ephebophilia or w/e the term is.
That makes sense.

But if we are operating off of likely scenarios what is it that we don’t know that is more egregious than sleeping with a married women in an auxiliary role on the team. It has to be something that can’t be explained away? I guess I don’t know what it could be if it it’s not one of the really, really bad things.

Who knows, maybe it’s not sexual at all and we’re sniffing for something that isn’t there because we’re following logical assumptions.

If it IS sexual in nature the only thing that I could think of that is That Bad would be one of the player’s wives.
 

radsoxfan

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That makes sense.

But if we are operating off of likely scenarios what is it that we don’t know that is more egregious than sleeping with a married women in an auxiliary role on the team. It has to be something that can’t be explained away? I guess I don’t know what it could be if it it’s not one of the really, really bad things.

Who knows, maybe it’s not sexual at all and we’re sniffing for something that isn’t there because we’re following logical as
If it IS sexual in nature the only thing that I could think of that is That Bad would be one of the player’s wives.
Hired the law firm to CYA for workplace affair in July.

Maybe uncovered multiple workplace affairs? Players wives? Players moms? Harassment? Threats?

Something ugly went down. I know the players all claimed they found out from twitter/don’t know anything. But I doubt it, sounded like the story they all agreed on to end the questions.

How does Matt Barnes get info that Tatum/Brown/Smart et al. don’t get?
 

Spelunker

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That makes sense.

But if we are operating off of likely scenarios what is it that we don’t know that is more egregious than sleeping with a married women in an auxiliary role on the team. It has to be something that can’t be explained away? I guess I don’t know what it could be if it it’s not one of the really, really bad things.

Who knows, maybe it’s not sexual at all and we’re sniffing for something that isn’t there because we’re following logical assumptions.

If it IS sexual in nature the only thing that I could think of that is That Bad would be one of the player’s wives.
Sexual harassment and unwanted attention wouldn't be illegal, but would certainly merit this response.
 

Jakarta

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Assuming the tweet about the husband finding out about this on the ring cam is true, it’s possible the husband said he was going to inform the Celtics about this and Ime threatened (or actually physically confronted/assaulted) the husband or paid hush money, and this is the twist and turn that was uncovered in the investigation.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Hired the law firm to CYA for workplace affair in July.

Maybe uncovered multiple workplace affairs? Players wives? Players moms? Harassment? Threats?

Something ugly went down. I know the players all claimed they found out from twitter/don’t know anything. But I doubt it, sounded like the story they all agreed on to end the questions.

How does Matt Barnes get info that Tatum/Brown/Smart et al. don’t get?
I agree that its very likely the Cs players know the story too - hell, at least part of it is being widely shared in my silly non-sports-related industry and is very close to the account published upthread - but they want to avoid any/all questions for obvious reasons. If Barnes knows, its probably known around the league.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Something not illegal that could destroy his ability to coach the team or compromise him coaching another is if Udoka was messing around with a player's wife or girlfriend.

Also the kind of rumor that could be floating around player channels that Barnes would have access to.

I seriously doubt Udoka would be that stupid. But I agree that Barnes' comment about "who" is kind of an odd one.
The “wife of a VP” rumor was one of the first ones out there a day or two after this story broke then it kinda went away until finding its legs again. This story is nuts.
 

pjheff

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Hired the law firm to CYA for workplace affair in July.

Maybe uncovered multiple workplace affairs? Players wives? Players moms? Harassment? Threats?

Something ugly went down.
Could it be as simple as they found out in July, told him to cut the shit, and he didn’t, leading to a dissolution of trust and unprecedented suspension?
 

Shaky Walton

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Despite the hushed tones "it's much worse and people are gonna be really hurt" messages we heard earlier in the life of this story, things seem to be dying down. All it takes is one big reveal and that will change. And that could happen, undoubtedly. The media will keep sniffing around this for a while.

But from the perspective of someone with very limited interest in what Ime did to whom, and whose focus is almost exclusively on how Ime's departure will affect the Celtics' chances this year and beyond, my view is mostly optimistic.

While I do get the sense that players were annoyed to have learned about the incident along with the general public, the reaction among the players to the Mazzulla hiring seems positive, they seem to have good things to say about him and he seems to have the respect of those who have dealt with him. There's also enough time between now and when the season starts for Brad and the owners to mend fences, to the extent necessary, with the core players. Given what we have seen from Brad and Wyc, whatever needs strengthening seemingly will happen in due course.

It's very had to know whether Udoka's coaching (from and Xs and Os perspective and from a leadership perspective) will be missed and we will probably not have much of an insight into that for a while. I don't at all buy the Gasper/CHB mantra that Brad or a more experienced hand needed to take the reigns, and lean to thinking that a young, energetic, relatable coach is the indeed right choice for this moment.

So...color me cautiously optimistic that ime"s Boner will affect him and his future way more than it impacts the Celtics, and that Williams' absence and the hit to the depth caused by Gallinari's injury will matter more than the change from Udoka to Mazzulla and whatever hangover results from Ime's affair and departure.
 

radsoxfan

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Could it be as simple as they found out in July, told him to cut the shit, and he didn’t, leading to a dissolution of trust and unprecedented suspension?
Maybe? Kind of doubt it but obviously we’re all guessing.

Doesn’t really fit with Barnes’ take at all and would seem like a fairly mild “twist” of the investigation.
 

jose melendez

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I like this sentence

"And, third, and most importantly: Why would you ever want Stephen A. Smith talking about something as important as welfare fraud? He shouldn’t be talking about anything that important!"
 

Mloaf71

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I wonder who is feeding Barnes all the info….

Seems clear to me that whatever initiated the legal review was not, in the end, the most egregious year long suspension causing act.

I doubt they knew in July Ime was going to be gone.
I didn't see the age thing. Is that in the extended clip of the interview or did Barnes post it elsewhere?
 

leetinsley38

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Despite the hushed tones "it's much worse and people are gonna be really hurt" messages we heard earlier in the life of this story, things seem to be dying down. All it takes is one big reveal and that will change. And that could happen, undoubtedly. The media will keep sniffing around this for a while.

But from the perspective of someone with very limited interest in what Ime did to whom, and whose focus is almost exclusively on how Ime's departure will affect the Celtics' chances this year and beyond, my view is mostly optimistic.

While I do get the sense that players were annoyed to have learned about the incident along with the general public, the reaction among the players to the Mazzulla hiring seems positive, they seem to have good things to say about him and he seems to have the respect of those who have dealt with him. There's also enough time between now and when the season starts for Brad and the owners to mend fences, to the extent necessary, with the core players. Given what we have seen from Brad and Wyc, whatever needs strengthening seemingly will happen in due course.

It's very had to know whether Udoka's coaching (from and Xs and Os perspective and from a leadership perspective) will be missed and we will probably not have much of an insight into that for a while. I don't at all buy the Gasper/CHB mantra that Brad or a more experienced hand needed to take the reigns, and lean to thinking that a young, energetic, relatable coach is the indeed right choice for this moment.

So...color me cautiously optimistic that ime"s Boner will affect him and his future way more than it impacts the Celtics, and that Williams' absence and the hit to the depth caused by Gallinari's injury will matter more than the change from Udoka to Mazzulla and whatever hangover results from Ime's affair and departure.
Ime’s Boner.
 

Van Everyman

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I hate the speculation on this but am not immune from being curious as to what exactly happened here. At this point, the only information I'm going to assume is true is what the organization said, what Woj and Shams reported and what Barnes has let on, as that seems to have been somewhat validated.

Given that, I can only conclude that:

1) The person Ime had this relationship with likely had some status within or to the organization (hence Barnes agreeing that the "who is important important than what"). That would mean someone who worked or played for the Celtics or is a family member.

2) Ime conducted himself in a way during the fallout (the supposed "unwanted comments" toward the woman) that while not illegal was cruel or otherwise clearly in conflict with his expected conduct and undermined his ability to lead any part of the organization. This could be anything from messages/comments about the woman herself, to disparaging comments directed to the woman about her husband or family,

Taken together, it doesn't take a lot of of imagination to see how Ime not only sleeping with someone in the FO/organization or their family member but then compounding matters by disparaging said person/member would not only trigger a yearlong indefinite punishment but also cause players and outside observers to begrudgingly accept the severity of the punishment. It would make even more sense if the unwelcome comments were about or directed at someone prominent in the organization (which might also explain the organization’s prioritizing privacy over transparency).

I could be way off base but suspect we will find out sooner rather than later. .
 

Shaky Walton

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Wonder if Anna has learned not to be so reactionary based on this experience. Actually, I seriously doubt that she has.

But one thing I don't wonder: The players now almost certainly get that the Cs had no choice but to suspend (or fire) Udkoka for his Boner.
 

bakahump

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I Have No inside info.
I only ask cause it seems like it could Jigsaw into the info we are hearing.

Someones Daughter? 18-20ish?
Would seem like a shitty move on Imes part. Could explain the anger by senior leadership. Could be in theory the "Much worse".
Also not that they would want to out a person.....but maybe because its who it is (in this theory a Daughter) thats why the team as whole and as individuals has been so tight lipped.

I have not checked.....But does any of the senior leadership have a daughter that might have been involved.
Maybe we shouldnt check...
 

Jimbodandy

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I Have No inside info.
I only ask cause it seems like it could Jigsaw into the info we are hearing.

Someones Daughter? 18-20ish?
Would seem like a shitty move on Imes part. Could explain the anger by senior leadership. Could be in theory the "Much worse".
Also not that they would want to out a person.....but maybe because its who it is (in this theory a Daughter) thats why the team as whole and as individuals has been so tight lipped.

I have not checked.....But does any of the senior leadership have a daughter that might have been involved.
Maybe we shouldnt check...
Having participated in trying to piece together a possible narrative from the first round of leaks, I don't say this from a position of moral superiority or judgment, but...this is a really bad line of speculation IMO. Whatever did or didn't happen, it doesn't feel right to bark up trees like this.
 

bakahump

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Agreed @Jimbodandy ...it is "icky"
This has taken a life of its own. And while I can see the disgust at tracking down Celtics employees and harassing them on social media.(which I specifically said I did not and we should not do) I think there is a difference with that and posting a thought that seems to tick many of the boxes we think we know.

Sosh has always been a place "like our corner bar" where we could share our thoughts and opinions. when we stop doing that then whats the value of this place? Sanatized opinions? If thats truly the thought process then close the thread. I have no issue with that.

I get it its an ugly situation. But I didnt make it. Ime did.
 

AlNipper49

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Yeah, it's kinda fun to try to piece together everything because so little is known, but that doesn't mean sleuthing out what it actually is is worthwhile of anyone's time before getting into the potential secondary damage aspect. It's a dude who coaches a team of dude's playing basketball. Cosmically as fungible as it gets.
 

djbayko

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Also: Barnes is saying he raped someone or was with someone underage. He just can’t say it. That means he’s not 100% sure of his source and he doesn’t want to be lined up for libel.
I haven't listened to a word of Barnes on this subject. Is Barnes really saying this? If so, I think people here might be giving him a little too much credit on having inside knowledge here. There's no fucking way that Ime committed rape or statutory without: (a) this salacious news getting out somehow, (b) law enforcement looking into it, and (c) the team repercussions being much more than a one year suspension. We'd know this shit by now. Frankly, Barnes should be very careful even implying this sort of thing.

One thing I've been holding back on is, I remember Barnes' initial retraction happened immediately following the report which came out that the Celtics investigated and found that while the relationship was initially mutual, there ended up being some non-consensual actions taken by Ime. Is it possible that Barnes is taking the meaning of this non-consensual bit to be more than was actually intended? I took it to mean that Ime couldn't accept that the relationship was over and essentially sexually harassed the woman after the fact - not rape.
 

kenneycb

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If you have inside knowledge report it. The “I know what happened but can’t say” is annoying as hell and quite frankly bullshit from a journalistic integrity perspective. If you aren’t willing to go on record don’t say anything on a matter as sensitive as this. It’s irresponsible and leads to further baseless speculation trying to decode cryptic messages. But hey, new media.
 

MuppetAsteriskTalk

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If you have inside knowledge report it. The “I know what happened but can’t say” is annoying as hell and quite frankly bullshit from a journalistic integrity perspective. If you aren’t willing to go on record don’t say anything on a matter as sensitive as this. It’s irresponsible and leads to further baseless speculation trying to decode cryptic messages. But hey, new media.
100 percent. I tried writing something about it yesterday but all I could come up with was that he was acting like a child running around yelling "I know something you don't know" but you put it a lot better.
 

TripleOT

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Perk also claimed he had inside info, the morning after the story broke. I guess none of the Talking Heads/pundits want to name name, figuring that it would screw up future access to inside information
 

benhogan

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Perk also claimed he had inside info, the morning after the story broke. I guess none of the Talking Heads/pundits want to name name, figuring that it would screw up future access to inside information
You'd need access to that 2-month investigative report to have the full story (from the Celtics' perspective). Brad/Wyc won't leak and they probably aren't releasing that report. I expect a negotiation/severance deal with IME and the suspension is nothing more than a vehicle to buy negotiating time (as in the Sarver case).

The media reports appear to be agency spin (Woj, SAS), head-fake hyperbole (Perk, Barnes), or uninformed opinion (Anna Horford, Twitterverse)
 

Bleedred

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You'd need access to that 2-month investigative report to have the full story (from the Celtics' perspective). Brad/Wyc won't leak and they probably aren't releasing that report. I expect a negotiation/severance deal with IME and the suspension is nothing more than a vehicle to buy negotiating time (as in the Sarver case).

The media reports appear to be agency spin (Woj, SAS), head-fake hyperbole (Perk, Barnes), or uninformed opinion (Anna Horford, Twitterverse)
Do we know which law firm was hired to do the report?
 

Lose Remerswaal

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I do not know the league rules on this, but I am assuming that while he is under contract to the Celtics even if under suspension, no other team can come knocking on his door and trying to hire him. If they fire him, then I think that he can be hired. ( though the league might say something). I wonder if the leakage is an attempt to goad the team into firing him so he can get back into the league faster or collect a settlement from the team to end his contract. It is also a good tactic to get everything out into the open, turn it into a messy “he said, she said” situation and put it into the rearview mirror asap rather then have him twist in the wind for a year.
What firm is representing him? Dewey, Cheatum and Howe?
Do we know which law firm was hired to do the report?
 

Cesar Crespo

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I only ask cause it seems like it could Jigsaw into the info we are hearing.

Someones Daughter? 18-20ish?
Would seem like a shitty move on Imes part. Could explain the anger by senior leadership. Could be in theory the "Much worse".
Also not that they would want to out a person.....but maybe because its who it is (in this theory a Daughter) thats why the team as whole and as individuals has been so tight lipped.

I have not checked.....But does any of the senior leadership have a daughter that might have been involved.
Maybe we shouldnt check...
I was thinking this the other day. AlNipper wrote raped or underaged. A lot of states, 16 is the age of consent. While that would be considered "underaged" there would have been nothing illegal about his actions. I'm not saying that's what happened or anything. In fact I very much doubt it.

In the world of public opinion, you don't suspend someone a year for having sex with 16-17 year old girls. You fire them. Even if it's not "illegal." Who wants to be associated with that?

45 and 17 is grimy even if it may not be illegal. If that's what he did, I think he'd also be fired on the spot. Do you really want it coming out that your head coach is having sex with a Celtics staffers 17 year old daughter? I think I'd might stop watching the Celtics if that's what Ime was guilty of and somehow still had a job with the C's.

May as well have Matt Gaetz coach the team.

To be 100% clear, I don't think it involves anyone underage. If it did, it would have resulted in him being fired, illegal or not.

Then again, Karl Malone is a pedophile. Everyone knows it and no one cares.
 

radsoxfan

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Barnes thinks Ime may never coach again because he made some crude comments… OK Woj. Sure.

Sounds like someone feeding him info… trying to give “something” more than the consensual relation yet not really getting into all the details to me.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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These leaks may or may not change public perception of what transpired but it feels like most people understand that there is a lot more to the story than what Woj is Tweeting. In the end, its hard to see how they matter to anyone who is seeking accurate info on this situation.

The Celtics and presumably Udoka's camp aren't using these snippets to work through their issues. They likely have a different account of what transpired than the Celtics side but its probably not "see Woj's Tweets for what went down".
The league reportedly isn't doing anything here and if they did, you would hope that they aren't using Woj's Twitter as the basis for any action.

In the end, it seems like all these bits of info accomplish is to raise more questions rather than meaningfully moving public opinion. YRMV.
 

BigSoxFan

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These leaks may or may not change public perception of what transpired but it feels like most people understand that there is a lot more to the story than what Woj is Tweeting. In the end, its hard to see how they matter to anyone who is seeking accurate info on this situation.

The Celtics and presumably Udoka's camp aren't using these snippets to work through their issues. They likely have a different account of what transpired than the Celtics side but its probably not "see Woj's Tweets for what went down".
The league reportedly isn't doing anything here and if they did, you would hope that they aren't using Woj's Twitter as the basis for any action.

In the end, it seems like all these bits of info accomplish is to raise more questions rather than meaningfully moving public opinion. YRMV.
I think there is a large population of NBA fans who treat what Woj and Shams write as gospel though. My guess is these leaks are purely a PR play for Ime's "brand" (or whatever is left of it). Clearly, NBA front offices (and this board) will likely be a lot more critical of the information they read from Woj/Shams. But, with respect to framing public opinion, they may be useful for Ime's camp, which is probably why they continue to do it.