He's Gone: Patriots Sans Antonio

j44thor

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Biggest flameout in the Belichick era? Biggest since Haynesworth? Since Lawyer Milloy?
Doug Gabriel in 06? Guy couldn't beat out Reche Cadlwell for playing time...
Traded a 5th for him to OAK, cut him in Dec and he ended up back in OAK.
Of course we fleeced OAK for Moss in 07 so it takes away some of the sting.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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And now, SI goes after the next villain in the matter

Do they know what "keeping him on the roster" means?
 

strek1

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Thank god this asshole is gone.

The Pats also missed an opportunity for a tiny bit of some good PR by not condemning his behavior toward women in their statement.
Well given the owner's recent brush with the law involving interaction with women they probably felt it best to not go there.
 

BaseballJones

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Who cares about the optics. They brought him in. They found out first hand that he's an asshat. They cut him forthwith.

Let the bigmouths write. It's irrelevant.
Exactly. When they signed him people said BB is taking a gamble, but if Brown screws up, BB will just cut him.

Well, Brown screwed up and BB cut him. Just like people said BB would do.

I don’t see the problem.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Sox and Rocks

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I know you’re being sarcastic but it was reported there were numerous offers. I seriously doubt the Pats were only bidder.
I don't doubt other teams were interested. I very much doubt other teams were offering 15 million with 9 million guaranteed and 20 million next year. If so, there will be a robust market again now.

This isn't second guessing. It was noted by numerous people at the time.
 

InstaFace

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Lawyer Milloy? If I didn’t know you I’d ask how long you’ve been a Pats fan.
Was trying to think of players in Belichick's tenure who actually became locker room problems. There aren't many. Milloy loudly forcing his way out of town in 2003 came to mind. Yes he had a much longer and more glorious tenure with the team, but it still ended rather badly.

Thomas probably deserves the nod over Haynesworth on that list, though.
 

PC Drunken Friar

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Was trying to think of players in Belichick's tenure who actually became locker room problems. There aren't many. Milloy loudly forcing his way out of town in 2003 came to mind. Yes he had a much longer and more glorious tenure with the team, but it still ended rather badly.

Thomas probably deserves the nod over Haynesworth on that list, though.
Milloy was a cap casualty. High price and declining production...right?
 

caesarbear

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Can anyone really argue that taking on AB was not foolish? BB deserves a damn good pillorying for it, but the likes of yahoo sports certainly aren't up to the task.
 

lexrageorge

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Was trying to think of players in Belichick's tenure who actually became locker room problems. There aren't many. Milloy loudly forcing his way out of town in 2003 came to mind. Yes he had a much longer and more glorious tenure with the team, but it still ended rather badly.

Thomas probably deserves the nod over Haynesworth on that list, though.
Milloy was a cap casualty. High price and declining production...right?
The Pats asked Milloy to take a salary cut, as Milloy's production had declined in 2002. Milloy refused, and the Pats were not willing to guarantee Milloy's 2003 salary, so they cut him. He was critical of Belichick and the team after he was cut.

For the record, Adalius Thomas was indeed very good in 2007, although there were some questions about him and his contract, as his regular season numbers were down across the board. He redeemed himself during the Super Bowl, and was having a very good season in 2008 until a season ending shoulder injury. He came back in 2009 out of shape and lost a few steps before he was eventually benched and then cut during the offseason. He never even got a training camp invite the following season.
 

bigq

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Can anyone really argue that taking on AB was not foolish? BB deserves a damn good pillorying for it, but the likes of yahoo sports certainly aren't up to the task.
Certainly in retrospect but probably worth a try. Low risk, high reward potential seems smart to me.
 

RedOctober3829

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Was trying to think of players in Belichick's tenure who actually became locker room problems. There aren't many. Milloy loudly forcing his way out of town in 2003 came to mind. Yes he had a much longer and more glorious tenure with the team, but it still ended rather badly.

Thomas probably deserves the nod over Haynesworth on that list, though.
Adalius Thomas and post-07 Randy Moss were pretty bad locker room problems that Bill got rid of.
 

JohnnyTheBone

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Can anyone really argue that taking on AB was not foolish? BB deserves a damn good pillorying for it, but the likes of yahoo sports certainly aren't up to the task.
There's a writer at Yahoo named Scott Pianowski that could give it a wiggle, but the piece posted above was straight trash.
 

lexrageorge

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Can anyone really argue that taking on AB was not foolish? BB deserves a damn good pillorying for it, but the likes of yahoo sports certainly aren't up to the task.
It didn't cost them anything but money, and they may yet recoup some or all of the cap space. He arguably caused them some negative PR, but it will be all but forgotten in a couple of weeks.
 

dcmissle

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Certainly in retrospect but probably worth a try. Low risk, high reward potential seems smart to me.
It was high risk. Anyone who claims to be surprised today is not being honest.

The question is cost, which is measured in lost cap space and is yet to be determined.

The potential payoff — hoping against all odds — was huge.
 

DrewDawg

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I don't doubt other teams were interested. I very much doubt other teams were offering 15 million with 9 million guaranteed and 20 million next year. If so, there will be a robust market again now.

This isn't second guessing. It was noted by numerous people at the time.
That $20 million next year is completely meaningless.

And no there won't be a robust market. Additional things have happened.
 

DrewDawg

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Can anyone really argue that taking on AB was not foolish? BB deserves a damn good pillorying for it, but the likes of yahoo sports certainly aren't up to the task.
Unless you can show it had an negative effect on the team I'm going to say you're being a bit hyperbolic.
 

RedOctober3829

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it's not only that $5.5, it's the 2020 portion of the signing bonus too, even if the 2020 option was declined (as-designed, a la Revis). That's $4.5M I believe. That's a lot of coin, especially to the Patriots who don't get the benefit of high first-rounders.

It was a worthwhile gamble for Belichick even if he loses all but that pro-rated $500k, but I'd feel a lot better about it if we're not out nearly $10M in dead cap.
This is per Miguel. It's basically what I thought.

"If I am correct, the Patriots will receive a $4.75 million credit on their 2020 cap while the 2020 signing bonus proration will be removed from the cap."
 

InstaFace

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Can anyone really argue that taking on AB was not foolish? BB deserves a damn good pillorying for it, but the likes of yahoo sports certainly aren't up to the task.
Uh, yeah, I think plenty of people would be happy to argue that, myself included.

Care to make the case for the pillorying?
 

bigq

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It was high risk. Anyone who claims to be surprised today is not being honest.

The question is cost, which is measured in lost cap space and is yet to be determined.

The potential payoff — hoping against all odds — was huge.
If the cost is not yet determined I guess I don’t understand why it was high risk. The whole thing will be largely forgotten about in a relatively short amount of time. They tried it and it didn’t work and by cutting bait relatively early it would seem the risk was mitigated to a large extent. Particularly with respect to the bonus payout.
 

dcmissle

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Wouldn’t any team signing AB have to consider the possibility of the exempt list?

That wasn’t a factor in the Patriots decision, so the fact that the Pats took a gamble doesn’t mean any other team is looking at the same gamble.
Isn’t it pretty clear the NFL does not want him on the field this year? We’re two weeks into the season and ESPN has featured on its crawl two AB timelines — his timeline with the Raiders, and now his timeline with the Pats. He has dominated the 2019 NFL season.

The Seahawks were interested, now Peter Carroll says they are set at WR.
 

dcmissle

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If the cost is not yet determined I guess I don’t understand why it was high risk. The whole thing will be largely forgotten about in a relatively short amount of time. They tried it and it didn’t work and by cutting bait relatively early it would seem the risk was mitigated to a large extent. Particularly with respect to the bonus payout.
The risk of implosion was fucking enormous from the get go. Extraordinarily likely.

Now they face litigation risk with Brown over the guarantees because he’s likely to sit for the rest of the season.
 

scottyno

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It was high risk. Anyone who claims to be surprised today is not being honest.

The question is cost, which is measured in lost cap space and is yet to be determined.

The potential payoff — hoping against all odds — was huge.
where was the high risk? they have basically the same chance to win the super bowl now that they did 2 weeks ago (assuming cannon and wynn come back healthy)
 

lexrageorge

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The risk of implosion was fucking enormous from the get go. Extraordinarily likely.

Now they face litigation risk with Brown over the guarantees because he’s likely to sit for the rest of the season.
That seems like a minor issue. The Pats win the litigation, which seems more and more likely, they get cap relief. They lose, and they move on. Nothing that would affect their on-field performance. He's off the roster and out of the locker room. Players will move on, as will the team.
 

dcmissle

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where was the high risk? they have basically the same chance to win the super bowl now that they did 2 weeks ago (assuming cannon and wynn come back healthy)
Those are pretty big assumptions.
 

RedOctober3829

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Wouldn’t any team signing AB have to consider the possibility of the exempt list?

That wasn’t a factor in the Patriots decision, so the fact that the Pats took a gamble doesn’t mean any other team is looking at the same gamble.
He can't be put on the exempt list now because he's not on any team. Obviously, if a team does sign him the list is possible. But, the NFL's investigation may drag on for a while. It's crazy: if AB doesn't doesn't send that text or even just not put the woman in the group text he's suiting up on Sunday and the following Sundays.
 

Bergs

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He can't be put on the exempt list now because he's not on any team. Obviously, if a team does sign him the list is possible. But, the NFL's investigation may drag on for a while. It's crazy: if AB doesn't doesn't send that text or even just not put the woman in the group text he's suiting up on Sunday and the following Sundays.
This. 100% this. Can you imagine being as stupid as this fucking guy?
 

Harry Hooper

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but they had nothing to do with brown being on the team, whatever their chances are now are basically the same as if they never signed him
The lost cap space in 2019 may hurt their chances this season. Too soon to really know.
 

dcmissle

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but they had nothing to do with brown being on the team, whatever their chances are now are basically the same as if they never signed him
Then why did you mention these two guys when discussing AB? I was responding to you.

You know there is a relationship. Every dollar ultimately owed to AB counts against the cap. The Pats have to live with that cap.

And you want no part of a world in which the Pats exceed the cap even inadvertently.
 
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I felt sort of mildly uneasy when they signed him. When the stuff about the accused assault came out, I became a little more nauseous. When the stuff about intimidating (or at least embarrassing) the artist and her kids, I was downright ready to puke. When they cut him, it felt like a massive bilious hurl, but which felt much better afterwards.

So, like food poisoning, it tasted good but a little off at first, sucked hard for a bit, now we learn not to eat the clams casino on Tuesday afternoons and move on.
 

bigq

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The risk of implosion was fucking enormous from the get go. Extraordinarily likely.

Now they face litigation risk with Brown over the guarantees because he’s likely to sit for the rest of the season.
I agree that there was risk of implosion however however I think that was a calculated risk that could be mitigated by cutting him. That it happened early in the process speaks to the Patriots’ view that they acknowledged and recognized that outcome as becoming reality and decided to move on.
 

lexrageorge

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Then why did you mention these two guys when discussing AB? I was responding to you.

You know there is a relationship. Every dollar ultimately owed to AB counts against the cap. The Pats have to live with that cap.

And you want no part of a world in which the Pats exceed the cap even inadvertently.
The Pats will not exceed the cap, even inadvertently. They have highly paid people who's job it is to avoid that from happening.

The lost cap space is still a theoretical concern. There's a non-zero chance the lost space will be zero. But the lost cap space is not an unknown; it would have been no different than if AB torn an ACL last weekend.
 

dcmissle

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This. 100% this. Can you imagine being as stupid as this fucking guy?
Here is how bad it is:

ESPN is reporting that yesterday’s social media attack was “pivotal” to today’s parting of the ways. Which makes sense.

AB was probably in the clear for the 2019 season. All he had to do was put the phone aside.

It’s probably is not stupidity. It is probably insanity.