AB Watch II: Quarantonio Brown

RedOctober3829

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Yeah I'm less concerned with whether the Patriots end up having to pay that money to him - Kraft can spare it and it'll be a matter of litigation for a while - than I am about whether we get relief under the salary cap, since that's what Belichick was really risking (well that and the opportunity cost of the time spent dealing with him).

Does anyone who knows more about salary cap relief than Albert Breer have an opinion on this? This isn't something Miguel would normally offer an opinion on, is it?
I believe they will have to carry his $5.5 million cap charge for the year, but may get the money back as a credit on next year's cap.
 

InstaFace

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I believe they will have to carry his $5.5 million cap charge for the year, but may get the money back as a credit on next year's cap.
it's not only that $5.5, it's the 2020 portion of the signing bonus too, even if the 2020 option was declined (as-designed, a la Revis). That's $4.5M I believe. That's a lot of coin, especially to the Patriots who don't get the benefit of high first-rounders.

It was a worthwhile gamble for Belichick even if he loses all but that pro-rated $500k, but I'd feel a lot better about it if we're not out nearly $10M in dead cap.
 

fairlee76

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Hernandez was kind of crazy when he was on the team--putting aside the string of murders, he was apparently a very difficult teammate, he threatened to fuck up wes welker, etc--and they kept him for years and resigned him. Crazy takes you a long way.

Corey Dillon was crazy. Moss was crazy. Will McGinest was actually a little crazy--isn't there a story about him punching out some rookie offensive lineman and the team claimed the guy had a bee stain because his eye was swollen shut?

Messing with crazy is kind of a requirement when you're running an NFL team. In the words of Bill Parcells, football is not a game for the well adjusted.

They took a chance and when it became clear he wasn't going to get his act in line they ditched him. Seems smart to me.
Great post and totally agree. On the Pats pantheon of crazy, based on what I have read, there is Hernandez (who was enabled for years) and everyone else.

This guy being gone makes this team less entertaining to me and that is pretty much the only reason I watch the NFL at this point. So his release opens up time on Sundays, and I guess that is a good thing.
 

pedro1918

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Before the sexual assault suit, I was hesitant but hoping it would work. After the suit, I didn't like to root for the guy but I rooted for my team.

In short, I am glad he's gone. Go Pats.
 

RedOctober3829

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it's not only that $5.5, it's the 2020 portion of the signing bonus too, even if the 2020 option was declined (as-designed, a la Revis). That's $4.5M I believe. That's a lot of coin, especially to the Patriots who don't get the benefit of high first-rounders.

It was a worthwhile gamble for Belichick even if he loses all but that pro-rated $500k, but I'd feel a lot better about it if we're not out nearly $10M in dead cap.
The other $4.5 million of the signing bonus is the whole cap charge for 2020. I wonder if they would get relief if a grievance is filed and ruled upon beforehand.
 

reggiecleveland

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A few reports seem confident the text messages to an accuser violate his contract and the Pats are in the clear.

reported on Friday morning that the there was a Monday deadline for the Patriots to pay Brown the first $5 million of his $9 million signing bonus.
Last week, The MMQB reported that the language in Brown’s contract around his guaranteed money said that if the receiver “takes any action that materially undermines the public’s respect for, or is materially critical of, the Club, the Player’s teammates or the Club’s ownership, coaches, management, operations, or policies” then all guarantees will be null and void.
Reaching out to an accuser to intimidate her likely fell under the umbrella of “materially undermining the public’s respect for” the Patriots.
 

dcmissle

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it's not only that $5.5, it's the 2020 portion of the signing bonus too, even if the 2020 option was declined (as-designed, a la Revis). That's $4.5M I believe. That's a lot of coin, especially to the Patriots who don't get the benefit of high first-rounders.

It was a worthwhile gamble for Belichick even if he loses all but that pro-rated $500k, but I'd feel a lot better about it if we're not out nearly $10M in dead cap.
If AB contests it, yes — they have to reserve for it until a favorable ruling. Teams cannot exceed the cap.

The best thing they can do in these circumstances is persuade him to walk from the money due Monday, with each side taking its hit and closing the books on the whole deal.
 

InstaFace

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Great post and totally agree. On the Pats pantheon of crazy, based on what I have read, there is Hernandez (who was enabled for years) and everyone else.

This guy being gone makes this team less entertaining to me and that is pretty much the only reason I watch the NFL at this point. So his release opens up time on Sundays, and I guess that is a good thing.
Wait so you were going to watch the 2019 Patriots with Antonio Brown on it, but now that AB is gone you're not going to watch the 2019 Patriots? Brady, Belichick and the rest aren't enough to hold your attention, but when Brown was on the roster, that tipped the scales for you?
 

8slim

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Corey Dillon and Randy Moss were not “crazy”. That’s a terrible take. Neither of them deserves to be compared to AB’s Patriots stint at all.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Yeah I'm less concerned with whether the Patriots end up having to pay that money to him - Kraft can spare it and it'll be a matter of litigation for a while - than I am about whether we get relief under the salary cap, since that's what Belichick was really risking (well that and the opportunity cost of the time spent dealing with him).

Does anyone who knows more about salary cap relief than Albert Breer have an opinion on this? This isn't something Miguel would normally offer an opinion on, is it?
I just read the portion of the CBA that applies. It's very difficult to understand. I think the following are the relevant questions and I don't know any of the answers to them, though some have been speculated about in the press.

1. Did the Patriots void the guaranteed money before cutting?

2. If no, can they void it now even after cutting him.

3. Did the Patriots pay the guaranteed money yet? (I think this is very important, see below.)

4. What were the terms of the contract for voiding guarantees?

5. Assuming there was a provision in the contract that permitted voiding the guarantees was it a clause that is permitted by the CBA. (If limited to guaranteed money only, the answer appears to be that the CBA would allow it.)

6. Assuming there was a provision in the contract that permitted voiding the guarantees did AB engage in conduct that violated the contract?

Here's why I think number 3 is important. Once you pay the player a guarantee you can void it but you have to affirmatively seek to recoup it. You cannot get cap relief until you win your recoupment claim. if you have not yet paid the player and you void the contract I believe that you get immediate cap relief and are only hit with the cap charge if the player wins a greivance.

I believe that the club and the play are allowed to negotiate and resolve the claim and if they do the agreed upon amount is the cap charge, but again, there's the tricky question of when cap relief is given.

The first thing we need to know is whether the Patriots are going to void the contract (or whether they already did) and whether and what they have already paid Brown. The less they've paid him of the signing bonus (and I have seen conflicting reports on that issue) the better they are in terms of getting immediate cap relief.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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I bet he’s on Kansas City by Tuesday
If you believe the KC beat writer who said they were out on Ramsey because their locker room is "too good" right now then I'd be surprised. With Hill back eventually, Watkins, Hardman, etc. they really don't need him.

I bet he goes to Seattle because Pete C won't give a shit about his next IG posts and they don't have the greatest WR depth.
 

RedOctober3829

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If you believe the KC beat writer who said they were out on Ramsey because their locker room is "too good" right now then I'd be surprised. With Hill back eventually, Watkins, Hardman, etc. they really don't need him.

I bet he goes to Seattle because Pete C won't give a shit about his next IG posts and they don't have the greatest WR depth.
Schefter was just on WEEI saying he doesn't anticipate anybody else signing Brown this year.
 

dcmissle

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Corey Dillon and Randy Moss were not “crazy”. That’s a terrible take. Neither of them deserves to be compared to AB’s Patriots stint at all.
On its face, it’s a preposterous comp.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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If AB contests it, yes — they have to reserve for it until a favorable ruling. Teams cannot exceed the cap.
Do you have something that says that. I read it a bit differently but I could be wrong. As I understand what I was reading they do not have to reserve it if they voided before paying.
 

Oil Can Dan

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Good for the Patriots organization. Love to see them drawing a line here.

When can we expect the new "woohoo I'm free thank you lord Jesus" video of him running around his back yard from the AB camp?
 

dirtynine

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I held my tongue to accept him on the team, so I'm going to hold it on the way out. I continue to think that this year's Pats don't need him. Sad that his talent is stapled to his personality. On to NYJ.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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The players union will file a grievance on his behalf, right?
We don't even know if there's anything to file a grievance over at this point.

We can imagine that the Patriots voided or will try to void the guaranteed money if MMQB is correct about the contract language. But we have no idea.
 

bigq

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He couldn't stay out of his own way.
Exactly. He continued to dig a deeper hole for himself rather than just focusing on playing the game. I hope he doesn't continue to spiral but I also don't think he has hit bottom. Frankly it has been sad to see even from a distance.
 

BusRaker

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My biggest disappointment is for once the Steelers and Raiders can tell the Pats "We told you so".
 

fairlee76

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Wait so you were going to watch the 2019 Patriots with Antonio Brown on it, but now that AB is gone you're not going to watch the 2019 Patriots? Brady, Belichick and the rest aren't enough to hold your attention, but when Brown was on the roster, that tipped the scales for you?
I'm a weirdo in this regard but, yeah, having AB around and the question of whether he'd keep his sh** together enough to remain on the roster made the 2019 Pats a more compelling watch for me.

Broader context, I'm one of those that is attempting to wean myself off the NFL, and football more generally, mostly due to all the CTE-related stuff. Still watch on occasion but it is no longer the appointment programming it was for me from about 1990 to 2015 or so. And being in Colorado versus Boston makes it a lot harder to justify spending a rare day off indoors when I could be outside.
 

InstaFace

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I just read the portion of the CBA that applies. It's very difficult to understand. I think the following are the relevant questions and I don't know any of the answers to them, though some have been speculated about in the press.

(...)

The first thing we need to know is whether the Patriots are going to void the contract (or whether they already did) and whether and what they have already paid Brown. The less they've paid him of the signing bonus (and I have seen conflicting reports on that issue) the better they are in terms of getting immediate cap relief.
This was a very illuminating post, I feel like I should expect an invoice coming for billable hours.

So, sounds like Monday was their last opportunity to cut bait and maybe get relief for 2019, because they were about to pay the 2019 portion of his guaranteed money, and having not yet done so, they may actually keep that space to work with. Likewise the portion of the money that was going to come off the 2020 cap, since that is unpaid and will remain so. And unless AB wins a grievance, we're in the clear on every penny except for his Dolphins game check.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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Pretty mad we traded DT.
Demaryius Thomas has to be PISSED.

He forsook other possibilities and crushed his rehab for the chance to play with the Patriots. Has a fantastic preseason game and everyone is telling him his spot on the team is assured. Even after he is cut, it's clearly with a wink-wink we'll bring you back after Week 1 for cap reasons, and the Pats sign him up.

Then AB shows up and he goes from Pats heaven to Falk-all. And it turns out the whole AB thing was a mirage anyway.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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My biggest disappointment is for once the Steelers and Raiders can tell the Pats "We told you so".
Do you really care about this? And if you do, the response is the same as it has been going on two decades:

"Scoreboard!"

But seriously, if Stillers and Raiders fans can get to you at this point, I don't know what to say.
 

Reverend

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Good for the Patriots organization. Love to see them drawing a line here.

When can we expect the new "woohoo I'm free thank you lord Jesus" video of him running around his back yard from the AB camp?
He’s currently holding a contest on IG to win his first TD ball with the Pats.
 

Vinho Tinto

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How so? don't you think continually getting away with things makes bad people more apt to keep doing bad things?
Does "continually getting away with things" include immediately being signed by the marquee team after he quit on two teams within 8 months? Or does that fall under something else?
 

InstaFace

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I'm a weirdo in this regard but, yeah, having AB around and the question of whether he'd keep his sh** together enough to remain on the roster made the 2019 Pats a more compelling watch for me.

Broader context, I'm one of those that is attempting to wean myself off the NFL, and football more generally, mostly due to all the CTE-related stuff. Still watch on occasion but it is no longer the appointment programming it was for me from about 1990 to 2015 or so. And being in Colorado versus Boston makes it a lot harder to justify spending a rare day off indoors when I could be outside.
I getcha, thanks for the reply. For me, Belichick and Brady are the only things that make it worth watching for me, nevermind following all the bullshit melodrama of all the league's moronic personalities, brain injuries, moronic management, criminal ownership, and TV enablers who act like these are a higher class of human doing us a favor letting us watch some of their brilliance amid all the commercials we must surely consume. It's a chore.

Some around here mock the attitude of "when B/B are done, so am I", but I also know I'm not alone in that. I won't tell you it's some sort of morally-forward stance, but when it comes down to entertainment, I'd have been done a long time ago if it weren't for the abject brilliance of those two.

Enjoy your rocky mountain high.
 

Gambler7

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Demaryius Thomas has to be PISSED.

He forsook other possibilities and crushed his rehab for the chance to play with the Patriots. Has a fantastic preseason game and everyone is telling him his spot on the team is assured. Even after he is cut, it's clearly with a wink-wink we'll bring you back after Week 1 for cap reasons, and the Pats sign him up.

Then AB shows up and he goes from Pats heaven to Falk-all. And it turns out the whole AB thing was a mirage anyway.
Thomas has said he had no other offers in the off-season.
 

jcd0805

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Does "continually getting away with things" include immediately being signed by the marquee team after he quit on two teams within 8 months? Or does that fall under something else?
Eh they gave him a shot, probably told him he had to behave or he'd be gone. He didn't, and he's gone. He stuck around Pittsburgh for quite awhile and I can't imagine he was a saint that entire time, I just find it weird to commend Tomlin for that.
 

BusRaker

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Do you really care about this? And if you do, the response is the same as it has been going on two decades:

"Scoreboard!"

But seriously, if Stillers and Raiders fans can get to you at this point, I don't know what to say.
Was being moderately sarcastic ... I'd respond to any comments with GIFs of Terry Glenn's 1996 fog catch or Vinateri's 48 yarder out of the snow. Philip Dorsett's recent performance did really make DT and AB far more expendable.
 

McBride11

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By the other threads it seems AB was being a good solider, sans the social media. His first media appearance was BB Talk 101. I am really curious about the behind the scenes story. I mean does Tom usually take 30 min aside with a WR to run routes, talk playbook, etc?
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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This was a very illuminating post, I feel like I should expect an invoice coming for billable hours.

So, sounds like Monday was their last opportunity to cut bait and maybe get relief for 2019, because they were about to pay the 2019 portion of his guaranteed money, and having not yet done so, they may actually keep that space to work with. Likewise the portion of the money that was going to come off the 2020 cap, since that is unpaid and will remain so. And unless AB wins a grievance, we're in the clear on every penny except for his Dolphins game check.
I need to add a very significant caveat.

Understand that "signing bonus" does not appear to be a CBA term. The CBA talks about Salary and Guarantees. With respect to earned Salary the CBA is very clear that no team and player may agree to any contract that voids the earned Salary except in very specific events which do not apply here -- incarceration, retirement, missing practices for hold out.

So, if the $9 million is regarded as earned Salary, I think the Patriots may have a significant problem. Put another way if the contract really makes it earned on signing and it is salary and not a guarantee, and the date of payment is just an accounting thing, then they may have a tough road and the stuff I posted above may not apply in this case.

I tried to give it my best reading. But an agent or player rep may know what these words mean off the bat and I have never seen a player contract.
 

McBride11

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Technically speaking that's true, but the undefeated season has a huge asterisk since it was only 14 games. The winless season will be legit.
I hope we hear of Flores popping champagne 30 years from now when the last winless team gets their first win.