Henry & Bloom booed at Winter Weekend

Archer1979

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This didn't seem worthy of a new thread, but according to this, the Winter Weekend outing at MGM - Springfield yesterday wasn't exactly the meet and greet that the Sox brain trust was expecting.

Article loses points on the headline though... could have somehow worked in Winter Weekend of Our Discontent..,

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/fans-voices-heard-uncomfortable-red-040000526.html

Simply put, the fans are not having this offseason, not one bit. They booed Henry when he walked onto the stage. They booed chief baseball officer Chaim Bloom when he tried to explain how much better off the team is now than three years ago. They booed the response to a question about the cost of attending a game.

They booed and booed and booed to the point that one attendee described it as "uncomfortable."
 

nvalvo

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Meh, feels like an overreaction to a 2019 team that had a championship hangover, a bunch of injuries and underperformed, yet still finished in third place and was 17 games ahead of the Jays and 30 games ahead of the Orioles.

Agree that this is a big year for Bloom; year 4 and that’s how long the last two guys held the job.
Maybe, but they had also had a terrible farm system with no pitching to speak of above A-ball, and had something like 1/3 of their payroll over the next four seasons tied up in three starting pitchers who were some combination of aging, injured, and ineffective.

But this is definitely a huge year for Bloom. Not necessarily in terms of the wins and losses, but if the core (defined for our purposes as guys under team control in 2025: Whitlock, Bello, Casas, Yoshida, Devers, McGuire, Wong, Schreiber, Houck if he isn't traded) thrive, and a few key guys on the farm have good seasons, I think we'll all feel a lot better about the trajectory of the team and Bloom's work in turning it over when we take stock next offseason, even if they've won 85 games and missed the playoffs.

If the team is mediocre because, say, Pivetta, Jansen, Arroyo, Kiké, Duvall and Turner have bad years, that isn't necessarily a disaster. Those guys are the fill-ins, keeping seats warm for Rafaela and Mayer and Bleis and friends.

If those guys have good years, we could see a playoff run. It's no guarantee in a stacked division, but it's a possibility. But we're at a stage here where individual progress of key players is more important than team results: if Yoshida shows he can be a top-of-the-lineup force against MLB pitching and isn't execrable in the outfield; if Whitlock emerges as the groundball-machine innings devouring rotation horse he seems destined to be; if Bello looks good; etc. etc.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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That the team now has some minor league pitching depth doesn’t really have anything to do with the state of the team in 19 vs 22 or the transition of GM’s though, does it? Their relative pitching depth now is primarily a result of development of guys who were here already, advancing through the system. None of the top pitching prospects in the system were acquired by trading players from the 19 team, for example.

Of the Sox top 25 prospects, only one of them (Frank German, #24) is a pitcher acquired since Bloom took over.

(You could argue that the depth is there in part because the team hasn’t traded many pitchers, of course.)
 
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chawson

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But even though some of these guys were acquired by Dombrowski (who reportedly doesn’t give a hoot about mL or intl scouting), a lot of the minor league pitching has stepped forward because of the team’s development program, implemented in part by Bloom, and aided by personnel hired to do so by Bloom.

And then there are guys like Schreiber (and Mills) who appear to fit the model of guys the minor league dev program can reshape.

I definitely don’t think it’s as simple as attributing Bello’s success solely to DD. Hard to know the whole story, but Bello was hardly a top prospect two years ago.
 
Sep 12, 2022
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Do you think John Henry doesn't read, or at least remain aware of, what's being written in his own newspaper? Do you think Cora and Bloom weren't asked about this in press conferences?
I really think it's Mookie. Xander was icing on the cake. I can't stand going to Twitter sometimes as all those fans talk about the Mookie trade. I come to SOSH because a much more logical sense. Twitter emotional about Mookie. Sometimes I wish they never traded Mookie and just let him leave like Xander. Imagine Mookie on the 2021 team?
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I really think it's Mookie. Xander was icing on the cake. I can't stand going to Twitter sometimes as all those fans talk about the Mookie trade. I come to SOSH because a much more logical sense. Twitter emotional about Mookie. Sometimes I wish they never traded Mookie and just let him leave like Xander. Imagine Mookie on the 2021 team?
So did they let him leave or did they extend him? Which hypothetical are we supposed to be imagining?
 
Sep 12, 2022
188
I'm not sure if I'm missing sarcasm, but of course they did. Just like they knew how beloved Pedro was, and Schilling was, and Damon was, and Manny was, etc. They also know that Devers and future stars will eventually be beloved as well.
They never got booed though like they did last night. I get your points about those other players. Mookie and Xander were homegrown and I think that might be the difference than those other great Red Sox players
 
Sep 12, 2022
188
So did they let him leave or did they extend him? Which hypothetical are we supposed to be imagining?
Extend. I think the Sale contract was the albatross. I could see both Devers and Mookie being here without the Sale signing. I still believe in Bloom. He was put in a tough situation
 

geoflin

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Extend. I think the Sale contract was the albatross. I could see both Devers and Mookie being here without the Sale signing. I still believe in Bloom. He was put in a tough situation
Mookie made it very clear he was going to test the free agent waters. He wasn't going to sign an extension. In order to keep him the Red Sox would have had to outbid everyone else.
 
Sep 13, 2006
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...the Winter Weekend outing at MGM - Springfield yesterday wasn't exactly the meet and greet that the Sox brain trust was expecting...
That's an understatement. Here's some video evidence of the reception that Bloom received during his time with the mic:
View: https://twitter.com/Kupsey17/status/1616591200374640640?s=20&t=hWt37fNKSEzsC8_KJl5kpA


For those who don't want to watch the entire clip, following are some excerpts:

Bloom opens with: "Last time I was sitting up here was 3 years ago...there wasn't a whole heck of a lot coming...so, we had 2 choices...we could drive right off that cliff...and we'd end up rebuilding for half a decade. That's not acceptable. That's not acceptable to you guys. That can't happen in Boston..."

At around the 3:00 mark of the video, he states: "We took all the resources and we added Kike Hernandez. We added Hunter Renfroe. We added Adam Ottavino. We added Garret Richards. We built that team the right way."

In the article in Archer's post, Tomase sums it up: "Simply put, the fans are not having this offseason, not one bit. They booed Henry when he walked onto the stage. They booed chief baseball officer Chaim Bloom when he tried to explain how much better off the team is now than three years ago. They booed the response to a question about the cost of attending a game. They booed and booed and booed...

"If the Red Sox didn't realize the world of hurt they were in with their fans before, it's clear now. The people have spoken. You can't subtract superstars and sit out huge chunks of free agency and sign a bunch of veterans to one-year contracts and expect the fans that pay some of the highest ticket prices in all of professional sports to bounce on their haunches awaiting a treat.
You try to sell that flimflam to Red Sox fans, and they'll bare their canines. On Friday night, the growls turned to howls, and the pack was hangry...

"[Bloom's] much-maligned "it will be awesome!" monologue at the Devers signing didn't come off to me as insincere spin -- which is how some heard it -- so much as profound naivete. I believe Bloom believes what he's selling. It's just tough to share his vision...

"Henry looked taken aback when he said, "it's expensive to have baseball players," and fans responded with lusty boos.

"It was the perfect evening for a franchise riven by dysfunction. The Red Sox have spent all winter in a bubble of their own making, insisting that everything is fine. If they expected a friendly audience on Friday, they encountered a revolt."

Sounds like a good time was had by all.:eek:
 

Philip Jeff Frye

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Adding Garret Richards is something Chaim is bragging about? What a great use of resources!

Edit - I'm obviously not a fan of Bloom's, but I'll give him credit for some successful moves, like signing Kike or getting his hands on Whitlock. When he's using Garret Richards as a defense of what he's accomplished, though, he's not doing himself any favors.
 
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Petagine in a Bottle

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Adding Garret Richards is something Chaim is bragging about? What a great use of resources!
Odd to mention four players, three of whom were one and done here. Richards and Ottavino weren’t really great value and I don’t think he should ever mention Renfroe. Should really focus on the guys who are still here and core to the team - Hernandez, Pivetta, Arroyo, Whitlock would have been a better four, and then keep talking about Devers, Casas, and Bello.
 

Minneapolis Millers

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One more point about 2021: there is a difference between contending in a season, and building a contending team. 2021 and 2013 had a decent amount of similarities, and the biggest similarity might be that while both teams contended, neither was built to contend. The 2016-2019 Sox were built to contend. We’ll see about the 2023-2026 Sox. But I think it is indisputable that we are still in a rebuild. It is now year four of said rebuild. No one thinks they are a contender this year. So next year will be year five of the rebuild. Which is a half decade rebuild. Which is what Chaim said they were trying to avoid after 2019. So they failed at that goal in my opinion. And therefore Chaim has failed at his job.

I hope I am wrong and they win 100 games.
I’m something close to 100% sure that Chaim meant a 5 year rebuild where the team finishes last every year and never competes. Whether 2021 counts as building a contending team, that squad sure as hell competed. I‘m old enough to remember cheering for them in mid-October that year.

Let’s pivot a bit. Living here in Twins country, I can tell you that the serious griping displayed in this thread (and, well, almost every other thread) is what other fans dislike about Boston fans. The Twins have made the playoffs 3 of the last 6 years. Pretty good. This includes 2019 when they won 101 games. But they’ve gone 0-6 in those playoff games, continuing an MLB-record 18 consecutive game playoff losing streak. Not so good. And last year‘s squad had the same kind of year as the Sox, finishing with the same record after falling apart in the 2d half, in part due to extensive injuries. Now, they stunningly resigned Correa, and just traded for a solid starting pitcher (albeit giving up fan favorite Arraez to do so), so most fans are in an optimistic mood.

But if anyone has reason to be frustrated, it’s Twins fans. Would those of you complaining about how awful Bloom is and what a crappy lot we Sox fans have right now like to trade places with Twins fans? Give up your World Series championship t-shirts from the past 19 years and erase your memories of happy Sox playoff victories while clinging to your now-ratty 32 year old Twins shirts from ‘91?? I’m doubtful…
 

Minneapolis Millers

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It's what a lot of Boston fans dislike about Boston fans, too.
That’s fair and a good point. Sorry. I’ll accept your friendly amendment and rephrase it as “… (and some Boston fans) dislike about many Boston fans.” Although my friends here say or imply “all” just to irk me!
 

EyeBob

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I don't think Red Sox management knew how beloved both Mookie and Xander were around here.
Of course they do and did. Don’t you think that they have people in place that help leadership understand all aspects of their business? My God! Of course they understood. FDG is a huge, smart business. You and I may mot like how they value their product (players) but they definitely get how “popular” the players are.
 

Cassvt2023

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I’m something close to 100% sure that Chaim meant a 5 year rebuild where the team finishes last every year and never competes. Whether 2021 counts as building a contending team, that squad sure as hell competed. I‘m old enough to remember cheering for them in mid-October that year.

Let’s pivot a bit. Living here in Twins country, I can tell you that the serious griping displayed in this thread (and, well, almost every other thread) is what other fans dislike about Boston fans. The Twins have made the playoffs 3 of the last 6 years. Pretty good. This includes 2019 when they won 101 games. But they’ve gone 0-6 in those playoff games, continuing an MLB-record 18 consecutive game playoff losing streak. Not so good. And last year‘s squad had the same kind of year as the Sox, finishing with the same record after falling apart in the 2d half, in part due to extensive injuries. Now, they stunningly resigned Correa, and just traded for a solid starting pitcher (albeit giving up fan favorite Arraez to do so), so most fans are in an optimistic mood.

But if anyone has reason to be frustrated, it’s Twins fans. Would those of you complaining about how awful Bloom is and what a crappy lot we Sox fans have right now like to trade places with Twins fans? Give up your World Series championship t-shirts from the past 19 years and erase your memories of happy Sox playoff victories while clinging to your now-ratty 32 year old Twins shirts from ‘91?? I’m doubtful…

Good Post. I attribute a lot of this negativity to the Boston media. I'll call it the Tony Mazz/Dan Shaughnessy effect. They reluctantly give credit when things couldn't be better in the Boston sports landscape. If their baseball team doesn't win the WS or football team win the SB, they absolutely pounce. And are sometimes quite vicious when they do so. I've been reading the Globe since i was a freshmen @ Northeastern in 1989. I've seen one or both go after Roger Clemens, Wade Boggs, Bill Parcels, Pedro, Manny, Nomar, Mo Vaughn, the old Sox ownership, the current Sox ownership, Belichick, Brady, the Krafts, KG, Paul Pierce, Tatum, Jaylen Brown... just to name a few. These guys all performed here under immense pressure and the vast majority of them brought championships. When followers of those teams and players see the media laying into them, its like they feel like it is their right to do the same. And I didn't even mention sports talk radio, which is virtually unlistenable. I know and appreciate how good we've had it, and sort of feel bad for the ones who don't and can only complain. Must be a tough way to live your life.
 
Sep 13, 2006
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Living here in Twins country, I can tell you that the serious griping displayed in this thread (and, well, almost every other thread) is what other fans dislike about Boston fans.
I wonder how many Twins fans actually spend their precious time reading threads on SoSH.

Not to defend the alleged "griping," but should we give a damn about what other fan bases think about Red Sox fans? I sure the f*ck don't.
 

snowmanny

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I wonder how many Twins fans actually spend their precious time reading threads on SoSH.

Not to defend the alleged "griping," but should we give a damn about what other fan bases think about Red Sox fans? I sure the f*ck don't.
Agree.

Twins fans dislike Red Sox fans because a lot of Boston fans aren’t satisfied finishing in last place? OK. Noted.
 

Minneapolis Millers

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I wonder how many Twins fans actually spend their precious time reading threads on SoSH.

Not to defend the alleged "griping," but should we give a damn about what other fan bases think about Red Sox fans? I sure the f*ck don't.
Agree.

Twins fans dislike Red Sox fans because a lot of Boston fans aren’t satisfied finishing in last place? OK. Noted.
You guys realize you’re both missing and proving my point, right?
 
Sep 12, 2022
188
Of course they do and did. Don’t you think that they have people in place that help leadership understand all aspects of their business? My God! Of course they understood. FDG is a huge, smart business. You and I may mot like how they value their product (players) but they definitely get how “popular” the players are.
Still can't understand they let a future Hall of Famer go. They screwed up. Mookie Betts is going to Hall of Fame. They should have signed this Generational talent. Dombrowski contract was stupid with Sale. That's what cost them Mookie. I believe in Chaim Bloom. Tigers for years stuck with Miggy contract. Dombrowski has a path .
 

scottyno

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Still can't understand they let a future Hall of Famer go. They screwed up. Mookie Betts is going to Hall of Fame. They should have signed this Generational talent. Dombrowski contract was stupid with Sale. That's what cost them Mookie. I believe in Chaim Bloom. Tigers for years stuck with Miggy contract. Dombrowski has a path .
Mookie turned down an extension that would have likely ended up giving him more real world dollars before the Sale extension. How do you sign a guy who is determined to get to free agency?
 

jbupstate

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I really think it's Mookie. Xander was icing on the cake. I can't stand going to Twitter sometimes as all those fans talk about the Mookie trade. I come to SOSH because a much more logical sense. Twitter emotional about Mookie. Sometimes I wish they never traded Mookie and just let him leave like Xander. Imagine Mookie on the 2021 team?
Have to image that team without Kiké, Renfroe and Schwarber also.
 

scottyno

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Have to image that team without Kiké, Renfroe and Schwarber also.
Also without Mookie since he would have been a free agent after 2020. But they would have had the 73 league average innings David Price pitched for $32m to cancel that out.
 

nvalvo

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I really think it's Mookie. Xander was icing on the cake. I can't stand going to Twitter sometimes as all those fans talk about the Mookie trade. I come to SOSH because a much more logical sense. Twitter emotional about Mookie. Sometimes I wish they never traded Mookie and just let him leave like Xander. Imagine Mookie on the 2021 team?
Huh? We had him through 2020.

edit: or what scottyno said.
 

voidfunkt

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Boston fans are entitled assholes News @ 11. I really really hate the fanbase these days. Jesus fucking Christ, 4 WS and how many playoff attempts in 20 years...?

Also fuck the media for stoking these stupid fires.

Henry's comment is brain dead but I expect nothing less from a technocrat finance guy.
 

BornToRun

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Boston fans are entitled assholes News @ 11. I really really hate the fanbase these days. Jesus fucking Christ, 4 WS and how many playoff attempts in 20 years...?

Also fuck the media for stoking these stupid fires.

Henry's comment is brain dead but I expect nothing less from a technocrat finance guy.
It’s embarrassing to watch and makes us look bad. The impatience and entitlement is too much.
 

YTF

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I really think it's Mookie. Xander was icing on the cake. I can't stand going to Twitter sometimes as all those fans talk about the Mookie trade. I come to SOSH because a much more logical sense. Twitter emotional about Mookie. Sometimes I wish they never traded Mookie and just let him leave like Xander. Imagine Mookie on the 2021 team?
Still can't understand they let a future Hall of Famer go. They screwed up. Mookie Betts is going to Hall of Fame. They should have signed this Generational talent. Dombrowski contract was stupid with Sale. That's what cost them Mookie. I believe in Chaim Bloom. Tigers for years stuck with Miggy contract. Dombrowski has a path .
I just want to make sure. The same guy made both of these posts, yes? Roughly 4 hours apart?
 

Cellar-Door

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Meh, not particularly surprising. The Red Sox were real contenders for a long time, then the new GM comes in, trades one of the most popular homegrown stars of the last 30+ years, lets another walk, and he and the billionaire owner (who spends lots of money on his other teams) are making comments about financial restraint. Not surprising to see an unhappy fanbase. It's a perfect storm of all the things fans of big market teams hate:
1. An appearance of being cheap
2. Losing the best talent for little return, particularly popular guys.
3. Not really contending.

Edit- Sure Dombrowski left a thin farm system and some bad deals.... Henry agreed to those deals, and he has the resources to spend if he chose, he doesn't, which is his perogative, but he shouldn't expect fans to cry for his wallet. As to Bloom... that's life as a GM, nobody cares that the farm system has depth now, they care that the team hasn't really been good at any point in his tenure (and no, a playoff series win from a team that barely snuck into the playoffs one year was not a contender)
 

shepard50

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Booing Bloom whilst he is trying to articulate the thinking behind the moves of the last few years is not a great moment for Boston sports fans in my opinion.

These are facts:
  1. The Red Sox are resetting under the tax threshold this year which will have positive implications for them this time next year and beyond
  2. Next year's FA class has some very attractive players
  3. The team was mediocre last year, but went to the ALCS the year before
  4. The team has won more titles than anyone this century and has done it fairly regularly, like every 3-7 years is pretty ridiculous
  5. The Bogaerts and Betts contracts have the potential to be ugly halfway through and beyond, we avoided that and that is a ten year decision not a 2023 (or 2020) only choice
  6. Bloom has had more hits than misses in short FA contracts
  7. Luck has been especially bad around which players were injured and when...
You are allowed to feel anyway you want to feel as a fan. But let the man speak. What has he done that is so egregiously disrespectful to the fanbase that he should not bellowed to speak without being constantly booed?!

Not a good look at all from where I sit. This ridiculous entitlement and seething, inarticulate expectation is what we use to mock Yankees fans for and now, I think, we are worse (as a collective).

(edited: typos and sense)
 
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MtPleasant Paul

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.. Henry agreed to those deals, and he has the resources to spend if he chose, he doesn't, which is his perogative, but he shouldn't expect fans to cry for his wallet. As to Bloom... that's life as a GM, nobody cares that the farm system has depth now, they care that the team hasn't really been good at any point in his tenure (and no, a playoff series win from a team that barely snuck into the playoffs one year was not a contender
According to Cot's contracts the Red Sox CB tax payroll at year end 2022 was $236,150,000. In the championship year 2018 it was $239,481,000. John's still spending. And what's this about the 2022 playoff run not counting?

John's comment that players cost money is somewhat brain dead. He has made a few verbal stumbles over the years - walking into that talk show, ruminating that maybe he's not cut out to be the owner of an MLB team. He seems socially awkward - sort of how he was portrayed in Moneyball. Yet this possibly socially awkward guy exposed himself to what he could have expected to be an angry fanbase the other night in Springfield. How many other owners would have done this? And while he has been remote the last couple of years, he flew down to the Dominican as part of the negotiating team to resign Devers.

Some more random thoughts: I'm tired of hearing about the "last place Red Sox." It' reeks of entitlement It's also extremely misleading. Last year only eight of the other fourteen American League teams had a better record than the Red Sox. To show how misleading the "last place" rubric is, the wretched 1965 bunch, the worst team of my fan experience at 62-100, were not a last place team.

Finally, Henry's and Bloom's critics don't usually consider the trends pushing toward parity such as the luxury tax and limitations on bonus payments to free agent draftees and international free agents which have made it more difficult for the richer teams to dominate over longer periods, nor do they consider that front office talent may be more equally spread around MLB. I think Henry and Bloom are operating now in a more difficult environment than Henry and Theo were twenty years ago.

If John Henry died tomorrow his obituary would highlight the four flags and the revivification of Fenway Park. The unpleasantness of recent years would merit a footnote.
 

Traut

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FWIW, I was there yesterday and not there on Friday night. There was overwhelming excitement and positivity from fans in attendance. People were excited to see players and optimistic about the season.

At the kids press conference, Chris Sale came off as really engaged and optimistic.

I’m sure after a few beers on a Friday night that some element of the crowd in attendance felt the need to take out their frustrations with life on John Henry.

But that was not the vibe I got from the vast majority in attendance yesterday.
 

Shaky Walton

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I'll wear proudly griping about the decision making of Henry and Bloom over the past several years. Yes, they have hit on certain players and it's not all one way. But comparing the squad that Bloom inherited to the one he has now should make anyone who loves the Sox shake their head. I am not at all optimistic about the 2023 Red Sox and I wish I could be. And I hope that I am wrong and that I have to take it all back.

I would have booed Chaim Bloom loudly had I been in attendance. He deserves it in my opinion. And I certainly wouldn't have given one shit about what fans of other teams might think, or that some Boston fans might disapprove.

That said, I am unable to boo John Herny. Four titles buys him a lot of equity with me, and that I think he has, on an overall basis, presided over a dumpster fire since 2019 doesn't erase my gratitude for all the prior good.
 

joe dokes

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I would have booed Chaim Bloom loudly had I been in attendance. He deserves it in my opinion. And I certainly wouldn't have given one shit about what fans of other teams might think, or that some Boston fans might disapprove.
I'd hate to be the guy who bags your groceries the wrong way.
 

Shaky Walton

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I'd hate to be the guy who bags your groceries the wrong way.
I have no idea why. I am always courteous to service providers.

If you equate Chaim Bloom's repeated bad decision making to a one time, likely very innocent mistake, then your math is way off.
 

Seels

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That's an understatement. Here's some video evidence of the reception that Bloom received during his time with the mic:
View: https://twitter.com/Kupsey17/status/1616591200374640640?s=20&t=hWt37fNKSEzsC8_KJl5kpA


For those who don't want to watch the entire clip, following are some excerpts:

Bloom opens with: "Last time I was sitting up here was 3 years ago...there wasn't a whole heck of a lot coming...so, we had 2 choices...we could drive right off that cliff...and we'd end up rebuilding for half a decade. That's not acceptable. That's not acceptable to you guys. That can't happen in Boston..."

At around the 3:00 mark of the video, he states: "We took all the resources and we added Kike Hernandez. We added Hunter Renfroe. We added Adam Ottavino. We added Garret Richards. We built that team the right way."

In the article in Archer's post, Tomase sums it up: "Simply put, the fans are not having this offseason, not one bit. They booed Henry when he walked onto the stage. They booed chief baseball officer Chaim Bloom when he tried to explain how much better off the team is now than three years ago. They booed the response to a question about the cost of attending a game. They booed and booed and booed...

"If the Red Sox didn't realize the world of hurt they were in with their fans before, it's clear now. The people have spoken. You can't subtract superstars and sit out huge chunks of free agency and sign a bunch of veterans to one-year contracts and expect the fans that pay some of the highest ticket prices in all of professional sports to bounce on their haunches awaiting a treat.
You try to sell that flimflam to Red Sox fans, and they'll bare their canines. On Friday night, the growls turned to howls, and the pack was hangry...

"[Bloom's] much-maligned "it will be awesome!" monologue at the Devers signing didn't come off to me as insincere spin -- which is how some heard it -- so much as profound naivete. I believe Bloom believes what he's selling. It's just tough to share his vision...

"Henry looked taken aback when he said, "it's expensive to have baseball players," and fans responded with lusty boos.

"It was the perfect evening for a franchise riven by dysfunction. The Red Sox have spent all winter in a bubble of their own making, insisting that everything is fine. If they expected a friendly audience on Friday, they encountered a revolt."

Sounds like a good time was had by all.:eek:
He says we can't take half a decade to rebuild -- what exactly does he think is happening right now?

His whole rant is incoherent given subsequent contracts they gave out.
 

tims4wins

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He says we can't take half a decade to rebuild -- what exactly does he think is happening right now?

His whole rant is incoherent given subsequent contracts they gave out.
See my post upthread. We are entering year 4, in which no one expects the Sox to be competitive. So, year 5 will be next year. A half decade.

Yes, they competed in 2021 and were competitive for stretches of 2022. But it's going to be a half decade rebuild either way.
 

snowmanny

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No, I don't think they do.

It's like starting a Yankees Suck chant when playing the Rangers, in Arlington, and down by 4 runs.
I re-read his post. I think he’s saying fans should have been more sour than Twins fans in the 90’s but not now.

But Twins/Sox is a tough comparison on any level if only because of the difference in revenue the fans generate and the difference in level of in-division competition each face.

I wouldn’t boo Henry or Bloom, but I do think the team has done a poor job communicating their strategy. And I think that they look unlikely to compete for the division title this year (although I can squint and see a path). So I get the impatience, although I have some optimism for 2024.

I’m not that worried about historically low-interest fan bases resenting Red Sox fans for having high expectations. I think John Henry has high expectations and probably wouldn’t give a crap if the owner of the Pirates resented him for that.

edit also, people like to complain. Especially about their sports teams. It’s entertaining. Again, not a fan of the booing, but you’re not a horrible person if you complain about your team. You may end up looking stupid but that’s part of the deal.
 

Lose Remerswaal

Experiencing Furry Panic
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
I'll wear proudly griping about the decision making of Henry and Bloom over the past several years. Yes, they have hit on certain players and it's not all one way. But comparing the squad that Bloom inherited to the one he has now should make anyone who loves the Sox shake their head. I am not at all optimistic about the 2023 Red Sox and I wish I could be. And I hope that I am wrong and that I have to take it all back.
do you think the organization is worse off, player wise and prospect wise now than it was when Bloom got here?

or the starting nine?
 

Yaz4Ever

stumps for Trump
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 10, 2004
10,623
MA-CA-RI-AZ-NC
I re-read his post. I think he’s saying fans should have been more sour than Twins fans in the 90’s but not now.

But Twins/Sox is a tough comparison on any level if only because of the difference in revenue the fans generate and the difference in level of in-division competition each face.

I wouldn’t boo Henry or Bloom, but I do think the team has done a poor job communicating their strategy. And I think that they look unlikely to compete for the division title this year (although I can squint and see a path). So I get the impatience, although I have some optimism for 2024.

I’m not that worried about historically low-interest fan bases resenting Red Sox fans for having high expectations. I think John Henry has high expectations and probably wouldn’t give a crap if the owner of the Pirates resented him for that.
fully agree with the bolded