@RyanHannable: Cherington said on @DandCShow Hanley Ramirez avoided a fracture after being hit with line drive last night. Hopeful he's just day-to-day.
Hanley avoids fracture and is day to day
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
- Start date
mfried said:
Oh come on. It was a hit and run. He looked back, but the ball was lined right at him, hard. He was busting his ass down the line (obvious on the replay, but of course that doesn't fit in with the Hanley is Loafing storyline).
It was bad luck, nothing more.
For crissakes not everything needs to become a morality play or a character flaw. Didn't X just line another ball off a runner not too long ago too?
mfried said:
You are wrong. Go watch the replay again.
Your expectations are totally out of whack with reality.
And I was wrong about X hitting another batter not too long ago: it was X HIMSELF who got hit, with a measly ground ball, not a line drive:
Here is the play.
To me it looks like he doesn't pick up the ball in time and it hits him. That's understandable considering Hanley is running, the ball is less than 3 inches in diameter, there are a shit ton of people in the crowd, oh, and it's coming at him really fucking fast.
To me it looks like he doesn't pick up the ball in time and it hits him. That's understandable considering Hanley is running, the ball is less than 3 inches in diameter, there are a shit ton of people in the crowd, oh, and it's coming at him really fucking fast.
rembrat said:
He turns and picks up the ball exactly when he's supposed to on a hit and run...at the crack of the bat. But a hard line drive hit right at you is going to be hard to avoid. Any other runner and the same thing happens. Any other runner, and we're not discussing this so extensively.
Doooweeeey! said:
No double play. Ball is dead after it hits Hanley, and Bogaerts is awarded 1B. Goes in the books as a single.
rembrat said:
Agreed. Just as the ball hits him, it looks like he's starting to straighten up and pull his hands up to avoid it--a couple of milliseconds too late. Hard to see how to prevent that.
Confronted with such SOSH unanimity as well as an ad hominem slur, I will retreat to the statement that X did exactly what a hit-run situation demanded, and I felt frustration that an important opportunity was lost. I also admit that (contrary to many other baserunning situations) Hanley was running hard. Whereas Holt, Pedroia, perhaps Nava, display a baseball alertness that enhances their physical abilities, Hanley relies on slugging, seemingly at the expense of many other facets of his game. Whether a line drive vs. a bad bounce grounder is harder for a baserunner to avoid - I leave to superior baseball wisdom.
You can see the liner starts out up the middle then hooks right at him, just bad luck that it hit him.
His first look back, it probably looked like it would miss him easily, then his next look back, it's suddenly right on him. It's even more fluky that it was at the height of his hand and arrived just as his pumping hand was up at that level.
His first look back, it probably looked like it would miss him easily, then his next look back, it's suddenly right on him. It's even more fluky that it was at the height of his hand and arrived just as his pumping hand was up at that level.
mfried said:
How about Betts? De Aza? Do they display a baseball "alertness" that enhances their physical abilities too?
Well... Holt, Pedroia and Nava have something in common that Ramirez doesn't. Perhaps mfried is suggesting Ramirez lacks the necessities to be an alert baserunner.
Hanley took four full strides while having his head turned in that direction. I have no idea how he didn't react quick enough. He did everything correctly, he must have just not picked up the ball despite looking for the contact.
And maybe I'm missing mfried's sarcasm, but Nava is one of the worst base runners I've ever seen.
Edit - After reading Ripley's post I got it now. Mfried is pointing out SOSH's long history of racism. Thanks.
And maybe I'm missing mfried's sarcasm, but Nava is one of the worst base runners I've ever seen.
Edit - After reading Ripley's post I got it now. Mfried is pointing out SOSH's long history of racism. Thanks.
Gordon Edes @GordonEdes 49s49 seconds ago
Ramirez said urgency to return because Pedroia is out probably on DL
If he returns and plays hurt because Pedroia is out, I will have new respect for Hanley.
Ramirez said urgency to return because Pedroia is out probably on DL
If he returns and plays hurt because Pedroia is out, I will have new respect for Hanley.
RedOctober3829 said:
How far does that respect go when he plays like crap cuz he's hurt and the team suffers further because of it?
Are you calling mfried a racist? That seems like a pretty strong charge to call mfried a racist..
RedOctober3829 said:
Fuck that "respect" noise. Gordon Edes thinks it's relevant that people know whether or how much Gordon Edes "respects" some one? How does Gordo know that Hanley isn't lying....he's not really *that* hurt, but he's saying he is so he can return as the conquering hero. That's certainly something a not-respectable player would do. But then again, after Hanley intentionally ran into the side wall to hurt himself so he could come back "quickly" and garner Gordon Edes's respect, I'm pleased that Gordon Edes is giving Hanley a second chance to earn some more.
I'll give many more shits about Gordon Edes's respect-o-meter when the sun starts revolving around the Earth.
In a season marked by purtrid offense, Hanley, Pedroia and Holt have pretty much been the team's only dependable hitters.
richgedman'sghost said:
Nah, he's not racist, just gritty like Pedroia, Nava, Holt, Trot Nixon, Kevin Millar, Bill Mueller, John Wayne and Jeff Frye.
This, of course, is as opposed to having tools like Mookie Betts, Rusney Castillo, Jackie Bradley Jr., Orlando Cabrera, Darren Lewis, Damon Buford and Dwayne Hosey.
Nomar, of course, was gritty AND had tools.
I could be wrong, but I don't think the respect part was part of Gordon's tweet.joe dokes said:
joe dokes said:
Bogaerts and Betts are also having fine seasons, although it would be nice to see more power from X.
While X and Betts were both cold for a while in late-April/early-Mayish (?), it's not like Hanley, Pedroia and Holt weren't without their cold spells as well.
Joe, the respect comment is mine. I couldn't get the cursor out of the highlighted part of my post that included Edes. I apologize if that confused you.joe dokes said:
Hank Scorpio said:
X's slugging has gone from 356 in April to 396 in May to 446 in June. So he's getting there.
BannedbyNYYFans.com said:
Look at the swing. X puts a late inside-outer on an inside pitch, the direction of contact was pretty darn flukey and/or Jeterian. Plus it had that wicked spin. My own hypothesis is that the moment he realized the ball was coming his way happened about .01 seconds after he decided it wasn't coming oppo and started to turn back.
RedOctober3829 said:
I wonder if we'd be having this sort conversation without the popular narrative on Hanley that followed him here.
Imagine him with no baggage. As an unknown import from Japanese baseball or something. He's sent some mixed signals this year, has made a couple of bone headed plays, and isn't thriving in his completely brand new defensive position. But I don't see anything that warrants a lack of respect for Hanley during his time here. He's like Manny-lite. Not quite as good a bat, not quite as flakey.
Of course we wouldn't be having this conversation. But, Hanley has a history that follows him around for "dogging" it. If he plays through this injury for the good of the team, I see it as a good thing and something that would help to turn the narrative.Rovin Romine said:
JimBoSox9 said:
Good points. And I'm not criticizing Hanley, just saying that with that many strides while looking at the ball, I was a little surprised it hit him. Initially I thought he just wasn't looking back, which you often see when this type of play happens.
richgedman'sghost said:
Is this directed at me? If it is, no, I'm not saying that. Just the opposite. After reading AllenRipley's post, I thought mfried was pointing out that any criticism of Hanley was due to racism on this board in comparison to "Holt, Pedroia, or Nava".
Whatever, I'm sure I missed his point.
I don't know where to find the info, but I'd love to see the stat cast data on that play. Speed off bat, distance between home plate and runner, and how long it took for it to get there.BannedbyNYYFans.com said:
People saying its reasonable to expect him to have gotten out of the way are crazy.
I don't know, the ball was hit reasonably hard by Xander, and hard hit balls don't curve that much between home plate and straightaway second base. Hanley looked, looked, looked at it but reacted late. Remy said there was nothing he could do about it. How about stop for a bit.
http://m.mlb.com/video/v194774983/?game_pk=414727
http://m.mlb.com/video/v194774983/?game_pk=414727
Steve Lyons said Hanley should have avoided it when I watch NESN while eating breakfast. Based on that I'm going with it was unavoidable.
RedOctober3829 said:
You do realize that he spent a significant portion of this season playing through an injury, right?
BannedbyNYYFans.com said:
Yeah, he looks, hears contact, but has no idea where, in the entire spectrum of possible locations, the ball is.
That is right when he turns to find the ball--look where it is. He can only react if, when he turned, he immediately picks that ball up.
But, yeah, maybe they didn't play enough dodge ball in the Dominican Republic.
He looks back for the ball right after his jump, takes four strides (never looking away from the plate)....
and gets hit.
This is right after Xander's contact. You'll see Hanley looking back.
This is when he gets hit.
He never tried to stop, slow down or jump out of the way. For all his defenders, I'm not saying he's lazy, dumb, or careless. I just don't think he picked up the ball because he had time to react.
and gets hit.
This is right after Xander's contact. You'll see Hanley looking back.
This is when he gets hit.
He never tried to stop, slow down or jump out of the way. For all his defenders, I'm not saying he's lazy, dumb, or careless. I just don't think he picked up the ball because he had time to react.
From my simple eye-ball play/pause investigation into the videos, that ball went from bat to hitting him in about a second (sometime within 00:03 to 00:04, at worst it's just under 2 seconds but I cant get any more exact with what I currently have to work with). To expect someone in full sprint to identify the trajectory of a line drive hit directly at their center-mass, and change their stride or whatever in such a manner as to avoid getting hit in that amount of time seems somewhat unrealistic. Most runners get lucky when they jump a ground ball, and they dont have to dramaticaly shift their center of gravity, nor is the ball travelling as fast.
BannedbyNYYFans.com said:
This is right after Xander's contact. You'll see Hanley looking back.
Thanks for circling the hard to pick out baseball
The point isn't that he did or didn't look, it's that it's hard as hell to pick up the ball (while running) that quickly, and a previous poster seemed to intimate it was because Hanley somehow doesn't have the awareness to get out of the way as opposed to well, it just being hard to do.
I figured some video clips might help here. I'm embedding gifs of the videos, so the timing will be very slightly off from "live" but they're good enough for government work. Click the links below to see smoother video versions of each. The first two clips are full speed, live video. The third is slow motion to give a better view of exactly where he got hit.
https://gfycat.com/HandmadeTautHeron
https://gfycat.com/MajesticAcceptableFunnelweaverspider
https://gfycat.com/FickleKeyEider
I don't think it's possible to watch these clips and come to the conclusion that it was a lack of awareness that led to Hanley getting hit. There is simply no way he could have avoided that ball without superhuman reflexes.
https://gfycat.com/HandmadeTautHeron
https://gfycat.com/MajesticAcceptableFunnelweaverspider
https://gfycat.com/FickleKeyEider
I don't think it's possible to watch these clips and come to the conclusion that it was a lack of awareness that led to Hanley getting hit. There is simply no way he could have avoided that ball without superhuman reflexes.
