As Brad has said numerous times: starting is irrelevant, its who plays the most minutes and finishes games that's relevant.Would you rather start Baynes and be underhanded against most teams or start Tatum and have an unguardable starting 5?
Except that the, who starts, debate will be continuous up to the opening day game against the Sixers. Hell, I've already read a half dozen articles on who will go to the bench (Hayward, Tatum or Brown) so that Baynes can start vs Embid in that game.Plus Stevens will match up Baynes against Embid, Drummond, Howard, Valanciunias, Thompson etc when we play beefier Centers.
The who starts debate is a silly, relic from a bygone era.
I agree that it will be interesting to see what Stevens does at the end of games. I wonder if he actively subs Smart and Kyrie at the end of games for precisely the reasons you mention. Kyrie plus Hayward, Horford, Brown and Tatum at the end of games is pretty lethal offensively as referenced above but Kyrie is clearly exploitable on defense.If anything, I'm wondering hard about what the last five minutes of games looks like next year. Smart was usually getting real time there. Soon we may be looking at a lot more offense/defense subs at the end of games or a new "ending" five that's more matchup based.
This team managed to finish with 40 wins and a playoff birth.They might rate out as average NBA players but the average NBA player is Brandon Bass. A team of 5 Brandon Bass's is a bottom 5 team. Like, 4 of those guys could start on any given team and if Rozier, Smart, Morris or Baynes was your 5th best player, you'd be fine. If one of those 4 was your best player, you have some serious problems.
It’s driving me nuts that it’s still more than a week before camp opens. This is summer has seemed endless thanks to our anticipation of this team healthy with Jayson Tatum v2.0 waiting to be unveiled.Can the season start already?
I'd bet Baynes plays pretty much the same role as last year. He starts unless they're playing a small team, like Cleveland if they start Love at the 5.Baynes will start against the occasional behemoth, but the NBA’s been moving away from those guys. Horford is going to be Boston’s primary center.
But lots of teams on the docket also have Gobert, Towns, Howard, Turner, Jordan, Valanciunas, Gortat, Gasol, Capela, Adams, Kanter, Whiteside, Vucevic, Nurkic. Those guys are for sure starters. There's a bunch more likely starters that are natural centers like the Lopez brothers, Ayton, Willie Cauley Stein, Henson...etc.With Hayward’s return Horford will be spending more time at the 5. They just aren’t going to be sitting better players on the bench to find extra time for Baynes. There’s no way around that. Most teams don’t have Drummond, Jokic, or Embiid. But rest assured, Baynes will get his time when those teams are on the docket.
Sure, as long as the 7 are games that help the Kings tank better.I’m more realistic, I think they’re going to go 91-7.
100% agree with this and Jimbodandy above (#155). This is how Stevens will play it.But lots of teams on the docket also have Gobert, Towns, Howard, Turner, Jordan, Valanciunas, Gortat, Gasol, Capela, Adams, Kanter, Whiteside, Vucevic, Nurkic. Those guys are for sure starters. There's a bunch more likely starters that are natural centers like the Lopez brothers, Ayton, Willie Cauley Stein, Henson...etc.
Teams tend to start big and play smaller once they go to their bench. Baynes is going to play. Doesn't make much sense to me to play his minutes against smaller bench players when his low post defensive ability can be used against the mostly bigger, definitely better starters and save Horfords energy in the process. Still don't know why people ignore all reports that Horford doesn't want to play a ton of center. Or do people just think the Celtics don't care about his feelings about it? Doesn't really seem like Stevens style to possibly piss Horford off just so he can lock up a few extra regular season wins.
Don't think it's going to be really difficult for Stevens to work it out. I think he probably sells Hayward on starting the season as the sixth man, Horford goes to the bench early for Hayward then Horford comes back when Baynes goes out. Also helps having four good perimeter shooters on the floor at pretty much all times starting Baynes so he and Smart play less often together. Could also work it that one of Hayward and Kyrie is always on the court if Hayward doesn't start. Their best five will still all get 30 minutes a game, they just don't necessarily all have to play the first few minutes.
Even Cleveland will probably start T.Thompson at the 5. Love will be their primary offensive weapon this season, so they won't want to wear him down at the 5 (like they did to open the regular season last year).I'd bet Baynes plays pretty much the same role as last year. He starts unless they're playing a small team, like Cleveland if they start Love at the 5.
I'd ballpark it as Horford playing 12-15 minutes per game at center and Baynes/Theis/some random Williams minutes taking up the rest.
Horford at the 5 is their best lineup, and will be their closing lineup, but there's no need to push it in the regular season to wear Horford down. Especially since every indication is Horford doesn't want to be a full-time center.
Most of those guys aren’t low post players. What wears down Horford is having to defend the Embiids of the world in the low post. They’re not going to worry about playing him against garbagemen, mid range shooters or stretch 5s (like Turner).But lots of teams on the docket also have Gobert, Towns, Howard, Turner, Jordan, Valanciunas, Gortat, Gasol, Capela, Adams, Kanter, Whiteside, Vucevic, Nurkic. Those guys are for sure starters. There's a bunch more likely starters that are natural centers like the Lopez brothers, Ayton, Willie Cauley Stein, Henson...etc.
Good stuff. At first, I was apprehensive with expectations of a "who starts" debate or, worse, a "how do we find minutes for everyone" debate. But much of that was smartly hand-waved away. I agree that the "who closes" piece is closer to an actual question (and have posted as much), but even that will likely change on a game-by-game basis due to rest days, injuries, and matchup/hot-hand factor. I'm actually really looking forward to some of the offense/defense and "ride the hot hand" stuff that will make Stevens look even more like a savant, while it's really just a fun thing to do in the 82. Why not?I can't tell you how giddy I am for the start of the season. More than any other NBA season in a long, long time.
To whet your appetite, enjoy this article:
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/four-big-celtics-questions-including-tough-decisions-with-embarrassment-of-riches-and-smartest-closing-lineup/
Late in the scrimmage, Irving slid to the left arc and drilled a deep 3-pointer that sent his White team to a 30-29 win over Green. There were some hoots and hollers, and there was a palpable excitement that comes from a beginning like this one.
Hayward said he had no limitations during Tuesday’s practices, and he made it through them without any incidents or even any pain. But there were still reminders that work remains.
There were bright moments, too, like when Hayward jumped with his left leg and threw down a dunk. Hayward pointed out that coach Brad Stevens even said something about it to the team.
“I had actually asked if that was the first one,” Stevens said. “So the little secret though is he’s never done that. He always was a right-footed jumper anyway, so I could probably count on one hand how many times I’ve seen him dunk off the left anyway. But it was obviously a big deal for him.”
Kyrie, talking about Stevens:Like Hayward, Irving was quite glad to be back, too. Players already have been gushing about how dominant he looks, and the first day did nothing to change that.
“But that’s who he is,” Irving said. “He’s a basketball genius for me. When he’s out there teaching us, you just appreciate it.”
What, you mean J.R. Smith's basketball IQ wasn't cutting it for you, Kyrie?“We’re just making up for lost time. He’s so talented, I’m a big fan,” Irving added. “I was watching his highlights yesterday so I can’t wait to see him play. I’m so happy for him. I’ve been waiting to play with a 2-guard like Gordon. He’s even-keeled the whole game. You are able to throw it to him and he’s able to get you a bucket, but he’s smart too.”
I expect a lot of Geno Time this season to provide those development minutes.Good stuff. At first, I was apprehensive with expectations of a "who starts" debate or, worse, a "how do we find minutes for everyone" debate. But much of that was smartly hand-waved away. I agree that the "who closes" piece is closer to an actual question (and have posted as much), but even that will likely change on a game-by-game basis due to rest days, injuries, and matchup/hot-hand factor. I'm actually really looking forward to some of the offense/defense and "ride the hot hand" stuff that will make Stevens look even more like a savant, while it's really just a fun thing to do in the 82. Why not?
IMO, the only minor (repeat: minor) downside to this kind of stupid quality depth is that there is a bit of a lost opportunity for development minutes. I'm not sure how they get 9-15 useful minutes except for rest/injury days. That's like complaining about the coffee after an unusually good dinner though. I guess that we should expect copious rest days. Most night, it won't matter.
Pants are off.
Do it...Still debating bailing from work at lunch and driving down to Chapel Hill.
Tix are about $35, parking $10--3.5 hour drive.
I wonder if Brady shipped it to him deflated. Would be in line with his sense of humor.When Hayward needed breaks, he would take a Patriots practice football -- a gift from Tom Brady -- and heave it all over the Celtics facility, inventing contests with Smeathers: Who could sling the ball between those two lights hanging from the ceiling, and hit a target on the wall? The ball eventually got stuck in a light fixture. Hayward never retrieved it.
Or maybe everThat was a good read. I didn't realize how big of a setback that second surgery was until I read that article. I didn't think we should expect excellence from Hayward right away but now it's clear that he probably won't be all the way "back" until holidays or even the ASB.
This where Brad will earn his money. A lot with have to do with who the other team has out there and how he wants to defend. I would bet he is confident on the ability to score, and will do his best to stop the other team. Hayward, Tatum, Brown? How to structure minutes? Give me that type of problem any time.On the theory that there is only one ball, should the Celtics be looking to stagger their best players as much as they can? I mean, Horford, Hayward, Irving, Tatum should all still start, but should they try to keep 2 of them on the floor at all non-garbage times?
We've been discussing this in another thread over the past week or so (maybe the Hayward one). My thought is that with the majority of our second unit shots coming from Rozier and Morris, two high quality second unit scorers, there isn't a need to purposely add additional offense to that unit which will already be among the most explosive in the league. You'll have staggered units throughout any substitution pattern anyway and one could argue we have too many chiefs and not enough Indians for sure.On the theory that there is only one ball, should the Celtics be looking to stagger their best players as much as they can? I mean, Horford, Hayward, Irving, Tatum should all still start, but should they try to keep 2 of them on the floor at all non-garbage times?
This is a prime opportunity for Smart. I am willing to concede, particularly with this group, his value goes up when his attempts go down. He needs to be willing to shoot late in the clock - but distributing his shot attempts may be a forward indicator for team harmony...You'll have staggered units throughout any substitution pattern anyway and one could argue we have too many chiefs and not enough Indians for sure.
I think the improvement in his play and comfort level was exponential from what we saw out of him during the preseason. He's got a little ways to go, but I have ZERO concerns about him returning to 90% of his former self by the All-Star break.There was some rust obviously, but he got to his spots and when the jumper fell, man it looked easy.