Gordon Hayward 2020: I'm standing here in pieces and you're having delusions of grandeur!

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chilidawg

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I thought in Game 3 that Hayward was very aggressive and much more willing to take a shot or drive to the basket, even to take a foul. He looked a lot more tentative in Game 4, and somewhere in between last night. He may need a little Stuart Smalley motivation up there, because a GH with a killer instinct is an enormous problem for Miami since they're already consumed with not getting shredded by the rest of the Best 5, and they just don't have the bodies to handle Hayward playing with the second unit.
Hard to know how much of this is due to limitations from his ankle injury. My guess watching him is that he's definitely not 100%.
 

dhellers

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I have to wonder if subconsiouly he is kind of afraid to trust his skills and push his physical limits -- lest he pull/break/or otherwise mess up something.

A Ralph Sampson story is germane -- a game at the Garden where for 3 quarters he made McHale look small. And then hit the ground hard, on his back.
Though it was nothing more obviously traumatic than what Smart does twice a game -- he had to be carried off on a stretcher to MGH.
He was walking later that night --- but damn, I learned an answer to the question of "why is Sampson not fully focused."
 

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It's probably a combination of a bunch of factors:

-He's clearly not 100% physically yet, and were this the regular season I imagine he'd be out for at least another week or two.
-He's rusty after not playing for over a month.
-He's aware that the team was playing well without him (2-0 deficit notwithstanding) and doesn't want to mess with team chemistry by being too aggressive.
-He's coming off the bench for the first time all year, which takes time to get used to.
-His son was just born and he hasn't seen the baby or his family since the birth. These guys aren't robots, that shit is rough.

We'll see if he picks up his option or if Boston re-signs him, but if this is his last year here, what a disappointment (with no one at fault). One year entirely lost to injury and a second as a shadow of his former self as he's clearly still recovering. Year 3 was pretty good, he has been an efficient big wing who can do basically everything at a B+ level, and even then he's had multiple major injuries that caused him to miss a month plus multiple times. Here's hoping he has his chance at redemption is still coming up this season.
 

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I think if Heyward's and Tatum's contracts were reversed, everyone would be thrilled with the combined value. But even though Tatum is worth WAAAAAAYYYY more than his salary, Heyward being significantly overpaid for his production feels like it's wasted money.
 

Lazy vs Crazy

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People seem pretty confident he'll opt in, but I imagine it depends on the CBA after the season. Not sure who would pay him big money but he may prefer a 4-80 to the 1-30 he'd have if he stays.
 

Euclis20

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Coming into the bubble I was pretty sure he'd be opting out. He wasn't the high flyer he was in Utah and he probably wasn't quite as good as his final year there, but was definitely as good as he was in the 2-3 years prior to that. He had a couple of fluky injuries, but had a career high in rebounds and FG%, and was above his averages in 3p%, assists and points. It's a pretty weak FA pool IIRC, so we'll see. The silver lining of his ankle injury is that I think it makes him more likely to opt in, but who knows.
 

NomarsFool

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People seem pretty confident he'll opt in, but I imagine it depends on the CBA after the season. Not sure who would pay him big money but he may prefer a 4-80 to the 1-30 he'd have if he stays.
I think he'd really be selling low if he opts out and tries to find a long term deal now. I know he got hurt, but it was a pretty underwhelming playoffs for him. If he plays next year and has a solid year, he'll get one last, big contract. Opting out would be pretty much admitting to himself that he's not really star potential anymore.
 

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"According to an NBA source, Hayward sustained nerve and retinaculum damage in that sprained ankle and he could barely jump. He needed about two-plus more weeks of rehab that the Celtics just didn’t have. So he played on one leg. " - Gary Washburn

Have to give Gordon credit for trying to gut it out and for missing the birth of his son. Things probably would've ended differently if we had a healthy Hayward but unfortunately we've said that a lot over the past few years. It makes sense that he was just standing in the corner most of the time if he was that hurt. At the very least he hit a couple catch and shoot threes which is more than Semi can say. Not sure there were better bench options or combinations than a one-legged Hayward.
 

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Credit to Gordo for toughing it out. Stinks the coaches had to go to him as early as game 3. If they could have eased him in with a series lead his recovery may have gone differently. They really didn't have many options with Romeo shelved and Semi struggling.
 

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Have to give Gordon credit for trying to gut it out and for missing the birth of his son. Things probably would've ended differently if we had a healthy Hayward but unfortunately we've said that a lot over the past few years. It makes sense that he was just standing in the corner most of the time if he was that hurt. At the very least he hit a couple catch and shoot threes which is more than Semi can say. Not sure there were better bench options or combinations than a one-legged Hayward.
Sadly, there weren’t. We were all pining for 70-80% Hayward over Semi. This was the most likely result. Just really hard to play basketball with a bum wheel. Hayward’s injuries have just killed us.
 

NomarsFool

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Maybe it was just poor luck, but I was surprised looking at the box score how few rebounds he had in the last game. Aside from a few garbage time layups when the Heat were giving up on anything that wasn't a 3PA - he had very little impact in game 6.

On the positive side, he should be really, really motivated to come back strong next season. It's his last chance for a major payday.
 

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Maybe it was just poor luck, but I was surprised looking at the box score how few rebounds he had in the last game. Aside from a few garbage time layups when the Heat were giving up on anything that wasn't a 3PA - he had very little impact in game 6.

On the positive side, he should be really, really motivated to come back strong next season. It's his last chance for a major payday.
I'm not surprised because it looked like he had zero bounce last night. He barely even jumped on any of his layup attempts including the one he blew.
 

chilidawg

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I'm not surprised because it looked like he had zero bounce last night. He barely even jumped on any of his layup attempts including the one he blew.
Yeah I thought he looked worse last night than in earlier games. Too bad, he's a great fit on this team. Hoping he opts in and has a healthy year next.

If he does opt out, does that help the cap situation at all?
 

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Yeah I thought he looked worse last night than in earlier games. Too bad, he's a great fit on this team. Hoping he opts in and has a healthy year next.

If he does opt out, does that help the cap situation at all?
Celtics are over the cap. If Hayward opts out, it helps with Wyc’s cash flow and that’s about it. I’d rather he opt in and see if we can deal him for a longer term asset although my guess is he remains with team next year.
 

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Yeah I can't picture Gordon getting a big enough contract with a contender. He'd have to settle for not competing for a title to get full value or, given his recent injuries, over market value. MAYBE some contender could make a buttload of trades and renounce contracts to improve their standing to sign him.

Or, contrary to the public face or just to get away from this rocky chapter in his career, maybe Gordon takes a little less for security to sign with a DIFFERENT contender. Oddly the two best positioned cap teams are the last 2 C's opponents. The Heat have a bunch of sizable cap hits coming off the books (Iguodala, Dragic, Hill, Leonard, Crowder), and the Raptors are taking $90 million off the books just between Gasol, Ibaka, and VanVleet.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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"According to an NBA source, Hayward sustained nerve and retinaculum damage in that sprained ankle and he could barely jump. He needed about two-plus more weeks of rehab that the Celtics just didn’t have. So he played on one leg. " - Gary Washburn

There have been a handful of similar ankle rolls in the bubble- AD and Iguodala come to mind- but Gordon is the only version that resulted in nerve damage that needed six weeks to heal. Poor guy has such rotten luck.
 

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Man, if he doesn't land on that ankle super funny, imagine how different the playoffs are? We probably dispatch Toronto in fewer than 7, get more rest, and have him looking like "January - March Gordon", absolutely terrorizing everyone, instead of this pale shadow. I don't want to say we'd definitively beat Miami, but I'd have loved to see what that might've looked like. I never had this level of confidence or optimism in the Kyrie-led squad, so injury what-ifs never bothered me this much. But this time around, it hurts to know it was right there, but-for a freak occurrence.
 

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Yeah I can't picture Gordon getting a big enough contract with a contender. He'd have to settle for not competing for a title to get full value or, given his recent injuries, over market value. MAYBE some contender could make a buttload of trades and renounce contracts to improve their standing to sign him.

Or, contrary to the public face or just to get away from this rocky chapter in his career, maybe Gordon takes a little less for security to sign with a DIFFERENT contender. Oddly the two best positioned cap teams are the last 2 C's opponents. The Heat have a bunch of sizable cap hits coming off the books (Iguodala, Dragic, Hill, Leonard, Crowder), and the Raptors are taking $90 million off the books just between Gasol, Ibaka, and VanVleet.
So both TOR and MIA are looking at needing to re-sign or lose three of their top 8.
 

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Given the context (coming off injury, shortened offseason, likely to be a lower cap number or at least much lower than if Covid never happened) I just can't see Hayward opting out. Assuming he can stay healthy (potentially big if), his free agent market in 2021-22 is likely to be way more robust. The only reason he'd opt out now, I think, is if his injuries have made him nervous about suffering a career-ender or something close to it and his primary goal is to lock in as many years under contract as possible even if that's for potentially many fewer dollars per year.
 

nighthob

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Or, contrary to the public face or just to get away from this rocky chapter in his career, maybe Gordon takes a little less for security to sign with a DIFFERENT contender. Oddly the two best positioned cap teams are the last 2 C's opponents. The Heat have a bunch of sizable cap hits coming off the books (Iguodala, Dragic, Hill, Leonard, Crowder), and the Raptors are taking $90 million off the books just between Gasol, Ibaka, and VanVleet.
Just a note, the Raptors don't have "$90 million coming off the books" on those three players, that's the grand total of their cap holds. Those three made around $58 million last year. That being said, they're not letting VanVleet go anywhere given Lowry's age. They will also likely try to sign Ibaka to a market rate deal for lack of better options at C. They will be getting rid of Marc Gasol's $26 million, though.

Miami might be a possibility, but I think they're keeping their powder dry for Giannis. Golden State has been looking to deal #2 for someone to help them compete next year, and Minnesota has been looking at options to add an impact vet to KATman and Mr DARcy. I doubt Ainge would exile Hayward to Minnesota, but I suspect that Golden State is a real possibility.
 

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Just a note, the Raptors don't have "$90 million coming off the books" on those three players, that's the grand total of their cap holds. Those three made around $58 million last year. That being said, they're not letting VanVleet go anywhere given Lowry's age. They will also likely try to sign Ibaka to a market rate deal for lack of better options at C. They will be getting rid of Marc Gasol's $26 million, though.

Miami might be a possibility, but I think they're keeping their powder dry for Giannis. Golden State has been looking to deal #2 for someone to help them compete next year, and Minnesota has been looking at options to add an impact vet to KATman and Mr DARcy. I doubt Ainge would exile Hayward to Minnesota, but I suspect that Golden State is a real possibility.
Wouldn’t a trade of GH to GSW require Wiggins heading this way?
 

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I would guess the idea is you trade Wiggins and either this year's pick or the Minny pick for GH?
 

nighthob

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Wouldn’t a trade of GH to GSW require Wiggins heading this way?
The draft happens after free agency this year, the only possible scenario that I could see working is a three way deal where Wiggins is routed to a third team. The Knicks are allegedly desperate to trade into the top three, so a deal where Wiggins and #2 end up in New York, #8, Minnesota’s ‘21 or ‘22 #1 in Boston and Hayward and #14 (Hayward’s ankle injury seems to carry risk, but I’ll let @radsoxfan or @DaveRoberts'Shoes give us that evaluation) to Golden State. That would leave Boston with a large enough TPE to add some roleplayers to their roster.
 

chilidawg

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The draft happens after free agency this year, the only possible scenario that I could see working is a three way deal where Wiggins is routed to a third team. The Knicks are allegedly desperate to trade into the top three, so a deal where Wiggins and #2 end up in New York, #8, Minnesota’s ‘21 or ‘22 #1 in Boston and Hayward and #14 (Hayward’s ankle injury seems to carry risk, but I’ll let @radsoxfan or @DaveRoberts'Shoes give us that evaluation) to Golden State. That would leave Boston with a large enough TPE to add some roleplayers to their roster.
Hayward and 14 for a future pick that might well end up at 14? I've had enough of watching overachievers fuck up our drafts.
 

nighthob

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Hayward and 14 for a future pick that might well end up at 14? I've had enough of watching overachievers fuck up our drafts.
If you’re worrying about the Timberwolves overachieving I can put your mind at ease, the leaders in that clubhouse are two of the biggest underachievers in the NBA. The real point would be to put themselves in a position to pick someone like Devin Vassell (who I think is going to be an elite 3&D guy in the NBA) and create a large TPE so that they can add roleplayers around the J-crew.

Also, I keep saying this, Hayward is gone after next year regardless, Tatum’s going sunshine supernova sealed that. He will be a 30% max guy in FY ‘22. There’s no way that Boston will be able to support two 30% guys, one slightly less than 25% guy, and Gordon Hayward at market rates. So turning him into two lottery picks helps them build around the Jays.

Also, ‘21 and ‘22 are the double drafts (three projected lottery picks reclassified to ‘21), so even a 14th pick would add much more quality than #14 this year where they’re looking at seriously flawed players.
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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Just a note, the Raptors don't have "$90 million coming off the books" on those three players, that's the grand total of their cap holds. Those three made around $58 million last year. That being said, they're not letting VanVleet go anywhere given Lowry's age. They will also likely try to sign Ibaka to a market rate deal for lack of better options at C. They will be getting rid of Marc Gasol's $26 million, though.

Miami might be a possibility, but I think they're keeping their powder dry for Giannis. Golden State has been looking to deal #2 for someone to help them compete next year, and Minnesota has been looking at options to add an impact vet to KATman and Mr DARcy. I doubt Ainge would exile Hayward to Minnesota, but I suspect that Golden State is a real possibility.
For the Raptors, yes I was talking about cap dollars not real dollars. Those holds being so high get them to $7 million under the cap, then renouncing all other holds gets Toronto to $19 million under. Not a huge number but still one of the better situations in the league for 2020-2021. Now that you refresh my memory on Miami, yes they are #1, 2 and 3 on Giannis' likely FA destinations unless the Bucks pull a rabbit out of their hat. He is a match made in heaven for that franchise methinks.

Golden State absolutely needs to move Wiggins to get Gordon, but I'm not sure what draft capital they have to sweeten a deal with a 3rd team. Given Curry's age I'd look into every possibility including Gordon in an attempt to GFIN. Curry probably has at least several elite seasons left before he becomes more of a spot up shooter.

Hayward has to decide if he wants to bet on himself and take the big payday for next season and line up a long-term big deal next offseason; or if he is concerned about his health and long-term viability, take a medium payday over a longer term to take away the risk being a MLE guy going forward if he gets another injury next season.

Finally, another decision he may make is that he wants to end his career with the Celtics and see it through with the rising youngsters, and the C's can allow him to opt out and provide a long-term well below max contract. I think until the C's have Tatum locked up at a new max contract it would be premature to extend Hayward unless it is very team-friendly. We'll at least be able to rule this option out or a possibility within the next several weeks.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Golden State staff and media have been raving about Wiggins all bubble long, to the point where I actually buy that they consider him part of their “core four,” barring something crazy like Giannis coming available.

At this point I kinda doubt they’d flip Wiggins for Hayward straight up with no sweeteners, given the advancing age of the Big 3 and the “best ability is availability” truism.
 

slamminsammya

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Golden State staff and media have been raving about Wiggins all bubble long, to the point where I actually buy that they consider him part of their “core four,” barring something crazy like Giannis coming available.

At this point I kinda doubt they’d flip Wiggins for Hayward straight up with no sweeteners, given the advancing age of the Big 3 and the “best ability is availability” truism.
Yall can keep him.
 

Jimbodandy

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How does SRN not have a "Baghdad Bob" tagline by now?

On the GH front...I get where nighthob is coming from. An extra pick next year or year after and moving up a bit this year would be nice. TPE would also be nice. But if GH is on the way out, I want Turner.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Myers: “We're gonna watch what our core-four guys look like -- and I'm putting Wiggins in there.”

Kerr: “Andrew (Wiggins) is really, really diligent. He’s a worker. He works every single day. He puts his time in and he’s in great shape all the time.”

Some requisite PR in there, obviously, but it’s been well above and beyond the usual platitudes the last few months. A lot of respected Warriors observers and writers who aren’t just 24-7 front office mouthpieces (Kerith Burke, Monte Poole, e.g.) are buying that the Warriors really like him and are committed to keeping him around.

I’m not suggesting he’s flawless or Maple Jordan reborn or anything — just that based on what I’ve read I kinda doubt the Ws would flip him for a 30 y.o. who can’t stay healthy, who is a free agent after next year, and who most people on this site seem pretty eager to move on from.

To the extent that fan chatter matters: I actually see a lot more trade Hayward posts here than I see trade Wiggins posts on Warriors boards.
 

BigSoxFan

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Myers: “We're gonna watch what our core-four guys look like -- and I'm putting Wiggins in there,"

Kerr: “Andrew (Wiggins) is really, really diligent. He’s a worker. He works every single day. He puts his time in and he’s in great shape all the time.”

Some requisite PR in there, obviously, but it’s been well above and beyond the usual platitudes the last few months. A lot of respected Warriors observers and writers who aren’t just 24-7 front offfice mouthpieces (Kerith Burke, Monte Poole, e.g.) are buying that the Warriors really like him and are committed to keeping him around.

I’m not suggesting he’s flawless or Maple Jordan reborn or anything — just that I kinda doubt the Ws would flip him for a 30 y.o. who can’t stay healthy, who is a free agent after next year, and who most people on this site seem pretty eager to move on from.

To the extent that fan chatter matters: I actually see a lot more trade Hayward posts here than I see trade Wiggins posts on Warriors boards.
Andrew Wiggins is a bad basketball player who is set to make $95M over the next 3 years. He is pretty much the epitome of an empty stats guy. I think concerns about Hayward‘s health are certainly valid but he is a much better fit for GS’s roster and would chop off 2 years off a really bad contract. I don’t buy at all that GS would give up #2 as part of a way to ditch Wiggins, mostly because I think they would set their sights higher than Hayward.
 

nighthob

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Myers: “We're gonna watch what our core-four guys look like -- and I'm putting Wiggins in there.”

Kerr: “Andrew (Wiggins) is really, really diligent. He’s a worker. He works every single day. He puts his time in and he’s in great shape all the time.”

Some requisite PR in there, obviously, but it’s been well above and beyond the usual platitudes the last few months. A lot of respected Warriors observers and writers who aren’t just 24-7 front office mouthpieces (Kerith Burke, Monte Poole, e.g.) are buying that the Warriors really like him and are committed to keeping him around.

I’m not suggesting he’s flawless or Maple Jordan reborn or anything — just that based on what I’ve read I kinda doubt the Ws would flip him for a 30 y.o. who can’t stay healthy, who is a free agent after next year, and who most people on this site seem pretty eager to move on from.

To the extent that fan chatter matters: I actually see a lot more trade Hayward posts here than I see trade Wiggins posts on Warriors boards.
I mean he’s a hard worker that six years into his NBA career still can’t play D and still isn’t an efficient shooter or scorer. He’s freakin’ awesome.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Given the context (coming off injury, shortened offseason, likely to be a lower cap number or at least much lower than if Covid never happened) I just can't see Hayward opting out. Assuming he can stay healthy (potentially big if), his free agent market in 2021-22 is likely to be way more robust. The only reason he'd opt out now, I think, is if his injuries have made him nervous about suffering a career-ender or something close to it and his primary goal is to lock in as many years under contract as possible even if that's for potentially many fewer dollars per year.
I was thinking before Covid-19 and his latest injury that Hayward might opt out to sign a longer-term, below max deal with the Celtics. Now, that seems unlikely - unless the leaguewide cap situation is in such dire straits that no one can pay him.

The logical thing for him to do at this point is play out the final year and then see what is out there. As the 4th offensive wheel on the Celtics he's not in the best of all situations for a pre-free agent year to jack up his value, but if he is healthy and can get through a full year teams will be willing to pay for him. The question will be which teams and does he want to take the full amount he can earn or a discount to stay with a contending team.

Edit: If the Celtics had a desperate need to lower their cap number for the coming year, then maybe they would offer Haywars a 5 year deal that brings that cap hit down from its current max? Hard to see Gordon signing anything that was low enough to bring the cap number down in a useful way to the Celtics though.
 

BigSoxFan

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I was thinking before Covid-19 and his latest injury that Hayward might opt out to sign a longer-term, below max deal with the Celtics. Now, that seems unlikely - unless the leaguewide cap situation is in such dire straits that no one can pay him.

The logical thing for him to do at this point is play out the final year and then see what is out there. As the 4th offensive wheel on the Celtics he's not in the best of all situations for a pre-free agent year to jack up his value, but if he is healthy and can get through a full year teams will be willing to pay for him. The question will be which teams and does he want to take the full amount he can earn or a discount to stay with a contending team.

Edit: If the Celtics had a desperate need to lower their cap number for the coming year, then maybe they would offer Haywars a 5 year deal that brings that cap hit down from its current max? Hard to see Gordon signing anything that was low enough to bring the cap number down in a useful way to the Celtics though.
Only potential variable is if he wants to lay down roots in the Boston area for family reasons and settle for lesser contract because of it. Probably not but the guy will have earned about $185M in his career through his age 31 season so who knows.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Only potential variable is if he wants to lay down roots in the Boston area for family reasons and settle for lesser contract because of it. Probably not but the guy will have earned about $185M in his career through his age 31 season so who knows.
If I was Hayward, and I was inclined to put down roots, I would play out the last year of my contract first. :)
 

lexrageorge

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Hayward's situation will take care of itself if he opts in, which I believe is the most likely scenario. I know @nighthob has put out a 3-way trade proposal with GS that could work, but it gives me pause. Hayward when he is healthy is an effective passer that can break the zone defense, is a decent defender, and is a good 3rd option scoring wise. Freaky injuries are not predictive going forward, and he could easily go back to regularly playing 75+ games again. At the same time, the rumors that he may have been playing with nerve damage are worrisome. Given that he stayed in the bubble during the birth of his child, the Celtics will tread cautiously about trading him. While there will not be any big name free agents coming to Boston anytime soon, they still need the ability to attract veteran players.
I don't see how an extension could work this season for the Celtics. It would have to be significantly below market, and I just don't see that happening. While I certainly don't care about Wyc's profit margin, I know that there is a point where he will disagree with me, and he gets the final vote. One benefit is that such a contract would be in that mid-salary region that could make it a tradeable contract after the first year. But Hayward is obviously aware of that, and can more easily pick his own destination next season by waiting a year.

I do think an opt-in is best for all sides, as the cap space is meaningless this season, and so the contract cost is sunk anyway.
 

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A complicating factor which Hayward's agent must be stewing over is without the all-clear for fans happening during the (now) 2021 season, there is a non-zero chance the NBA tries to shorten next season and ask for a haircut from the players (i.e. the MLB playbook). Remember that they got in greater than 75% of the regular season with fans and received the full TV money, so finances were not a big issue for the restart. That may very well change for a season with zero fans. Not likely in my mind, but a possibility especially starting an indoor sport during the winter season.

If that $32 million becomes $20 million prorated somehow, the long-term deal may look a lot more desirable. I don't think the league will really unfold their approach for next season until maybe around the time of the draft, well after Gordon's deadline.
 

NomarsFool

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I think they almost have to look at a shorter season. The season is going to start at least a few months later than usual, and I don't think they want to have the playoffs be going to much deeper into the summer than normal. I don't know the right number, but I'd think somewhere around 60-70 games would be plenty to establish playoff seedings.

This is going off-topic, but it's interesting to me how in the early days of baseball restarting there were a bunch of covid issues, but that seems to have diminished (although honestly I don't pay much attention to baseball at all anymore). The NFL isn't doing a bubble, and they seem to be fine. So, what will be the NBA approach to start the season? I think there will be a significant push not to have it be in a bubble.
 

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Who would people rather have next year, Joe Harris or Hayward? 2 years ago Danny Green, or Gordon Hayward?

I'd rather have Harris, and that's purely a function of the other guys that the Celtics have. Gordon Hayward (when healthy) is a better player, but the Celtics would get so much out of elite shooting than some marginal extra playmaking.

I'm not saying that that guy is available right now, but rather one-dimensional 6-6ish snipers who play passable D go for a LOT less on the open market than even a Hayward reduced contract would be for.

I don't see how you re-sign him without the intention of flipping him, and I certainly don't see how you don't move him if he opts in. Even picking up a TPE would be a small win, given the future salary situation.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Apr 17, 2003
24,355
Who would people rather have next year, Joe Harris or Hayward? 2 years ago Danny Green, or Gordon Hayward?

I'd rather have Harris, and that's purely a function of the other guys that the Celtics have. Gordon Hayward (when healthy) is a better player, but the Celtics would get so much out of elite shooting than some marginal extra playmaking.

I'm not saying that that guy is available right now, but rather one-dimensional 6-6ish snipers who play passable D go for a LOT less on the open market than even a Hayward reduced contract would be for.

I don't see how you re-sign him without the intention of flipping him, and I certainly don't see how you don't move him if he opts in. Even picking up a TPE would be a small win, given the future salary situation.
I agree those guys are nice fits, but they are not (even on this roster) as impactful as Hayward. I think people are underestimating how good a player he is. Salary-wise I think we simply don't know how concerned about the luxury tax they are---from a salary slot perspective Hayward's is more valuable IF the team is willing to pay enough tax.
 

tbb345

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Apr 23, 2010
1,073
Who would people rather have next year, Joe Harris or Hayward? 2 years ago Danny Green, or Gordon Hayward?

I'd rather have Harris, and that's purely a function of the other guys that the Celtics have. Gordon Hayward (when healthy) is a better player, but the Celtics would get so much out of elite shooting than some marginal extra playmaking.

I'm not saying that that guy is available right now, but rather one-dimensional 6-6ish snipers who play passable D go for a LOT less on the open market than even a Hayward reduced contract would be for.

I don't see how you re-sign him without the intention of flipping him, and I certainly don't see how you don't move him if he opts in. Even picking up a TPE would be a small win, given the future salary situation.
Theres no doubt the Celtics need more shooting....but after watching the Celtics get eaten alive by a zone defense before Hayward came back, I think that marginal extra playmaking is pretty damn important
 

OurF'ingCity

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Apr 22, 2016
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New York City
You also don't necessarily need to re-sign/extend him at a lower number with the "intention" of flipping him to still have the flexibility of flipping him whenever that seems prudent.

I suspect the Celtics won't do that, however, as I bet that Ainge and his team have one eye on the potentially historically great 2021 free agent class and would prefer to have maximum flexibility to open cap space in the (admittedly very unlikely) event that they think they have a shot at signing someone like AD, Kawhi, Giannis, etc. - which obviously would require a lot more machinations than just letting Hayward go but is at least enough of a possibility that having Hayward's contract come off the books after next year (assuming he opts in) could be valuable to them.
 

nighthob

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Jul 15, 2005
9,306
Any scenario where Hayward goes out with only draft picks returning is a good one for Boston. In that sense the pandemic has benefitted them to the extent that finally putting the draft after free agency allows them the opportunity to create an approximately $34.2 million TPE in a Hayward deal.
 
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