General Offseason Thread.

[Euclis20]

I like that a second challenge is awarded if the first is successful, but I'm extremely skeptical of in game penalties for flopping. We want to make referee's jobs harder now? I really don't see that working like we'd hope. Assess technical fouls after the game, which result in [small] fines and obviously doesn't change the game in which it happens, but when a player has 16 technical fouls, that's an automatic one game suspension. Once a guy starts picking up multiple flopping techs, they'll be a lot more careful.

They 100% better make the flop calls subject to the coaches challenges.

 

[Light-Tower-Power]

I like that a second challenge is awarded if the first is successful, but I'm extremely skeptical of in game penalties for flopping. We want to make referee's jobs harder now? I really don't see that working like we'd hope. Assess technical fouls after the game, which result in [small] fines and obviously doesn't change the game in which it happens, but when a player has 16 technical fouls, that's an automatic one game suspension. Once a guy starts picking up multiple flopping techs, they'll be a lot more careful.

They 100% better make the flop calls subject to the coaches challenges.

I agree that post-game assessment of technical fouls for egregious flops is a much better solution. The last thing NBA officials need is the power to hand out more technicals on the fly. Or will it be subject to even more replay reviews? Might as well check for a flopping act while you check on that hostile act.

I despise the coach's challenge but I suppose it makes sense for a team to retain their challenge on a win if the system must remain in place.

 

[djbayko]

What's going to be tricky is how many players feel that refs miss the call if they don't embellish a little on actual fouls. Approaching that line without going over is going to become an art form.

 

[Bertha]

I would love to see this flopping call used for the increasingly popular “snapping your head back like you were shot” while driving to the basket or on mild contact coming around a sceeen. Trae young is one of many who does this far too often.

 

[seltix]

I like that a second challenge is awarded if the first is successful, but I'm extremely skeptical of in game penalties for flopping. We want to make referee's jobs harder now? I really don't see that working like we'd hope. Assess technical fouls after the game, which result in [small] fines and obviously doesn't change the game in which it happens, but when a player has 16 technical fouls, that's an automatic one game suspension. Once a guy starts picking up multiple flopping techs, they'll be a lot more careful.

They 100% better make the flop calls subject to the coaches challenges.

my understanding is that the new in-game flop tech is more like a 'defensive 3 seconds' tech - the other team gets a free throw and the ball, but it's not assessed as an individual foul. at least not yet.

 

[benhogan]

The Pistons aren't attracting high end FAs or top 3 picks now, so I like getting the middle class of your team shored up in hopes of attracting #1/#2 options later. At the very least if he improves significantly and the team is still wallowing, you trade the player for a bunch of assets.

They have consistently been in the TOP3 hunt for 4 straight seasons now (20 wins during COVID year)
2020-21: 20 wins (2nd worst team in the NBA)
2021-22: 22 wins (2nd worst team in the NBA)
2022-23: 17 wins (worst team in the NBA by a healthy margin)

I expect they'll continue to be in the hunt with the way they are operating.
Overpaying for back-up Centers isn't great way to build for the future.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

my understanding is that the new in-game flop tech is more like a 'defensive 3 seconds' tech - the other team gets a free throw and the ball, but it's not assessed as an individual foul. at least not yet.

Your understanding appears to be correct.

Specifically, when a game official calls a flop, defined by the NBA as "a physical act that reasonably appears to be intended to cause the officials to call a foul on another player," the offending player will be charged with a non-unsportsmanlike technical foul and give the other team one free throw attempt.

Because of the nature of the technical foul, a player will not be ejected from a game due to flopping violations. Refs will also not have to interrupt play to call a flop, as they can wait until the next stoppage to hit a player with the penalty.

 

[Pablo's TB Lover]

They have consistently been in the TOP3 hunt for 4 straight seasons now (20 wins during COVID year)
2020-21: 20 wins (2nd worst team in the NBA)
2021-22: 22 wins (2nd worst team in the NBA)
2022-23: 17 wins (worst team in the NBA by a healthy margin)

I expect they'll continue to be in the hunt with the way they are operating.
Overpaying for back-up Centers isn't great way to build for the future.

Yeah I think that's a bit of hyperbole: the Pistons definitely haven't been playing Stewart like a back-up center, going from 21 mpg rookie season to 28 mpg this year along with the aforementioned 3-point attempts more suited to a defensive wing.

Maybe it won't result in significantly more wins, but a frontcourt of Wiseman at C a year removed from injury and Stewart at PF with his newfound shooting, Monte Morris at PG, Jaden Ivey at SG and Cade Cunningham playing point forward seems like a very respectable squad. And Monty Williams on his 2nd coaching job, which should help with the improvement of the "utes".

To this end, Detroit is doing the extension with the intent of locking Stewart in before "the leap(TM)" with the team around him improving. Sure it could be a gamble, but the team is not against the salary cap and in essence decided on him as the safest bet to extend now if they wish to stagger rookie extensions. When looking at bottom-line advanced stats (they aren't the same style of player) Stewart's output now is that he's essentially Grant Williams who got a 4-yr/$53 FA contract. I'd argue Grant has been handed a silver spoon thus far in his career with exceptional players at the top of the roster and he's much closer to his ceiling than Stewart. Still an overpay for a non-FA, but you get my drift...

 

[Pablo's TB Lover]

The new flopping penalty is a start, but one free throw in a regular season game even if a fine is assessed are slaps on the wrist. There needs to be a humiliation component as well. I want to see an NHL Department of Player Safety style video prepared for every flop that gets assessed, with a full 2-minute serious narration of why it is a flop: "Kyle Lowry was assessed a flopping violation and fined $20,000. (*Smash cut intimidating outro*)"

 

[shoosh77]

I would love to see this flopping call used for the increasingly popular “snapping your head back like you were shot” while driving to the basket or on mild contact coming around a sceeen. Trae young is one of many who does this far too often.

It’s already been named “the Lowry”.

 

[CoffeeNerdness]

Brad ahead of the curve. Tough break, Memphis.

 

[radsoxfan]

NBA refs are so bad and the NBA is so hard to officiate, I’m not really in favor of giving them any more power or responsibility than is absolutely needed.

There will be a ton of uncalled flops and then some that actually are fouls that get a T for flopping.

Less ref judgement, not more. Fine the crap out of these guys after the game (even suspend players after a certain #) but don’t make the refs deal with the flopping real time. They will 100% blow it.

 

[TrapperAB]

I just feel bad for all of the snipers in the rafters who have been shooting Trae Young game after game, drive after drive. Will nobody think of the snipers?

 

[Jakarta]

Looking forward to having 1 ref call a foul, another come running over to call a flop, and chaos ensuing 5 times a game while they sort out wht really happened. Should do wonders for the flow of the game.

This should absolutely be done after the game by the league office with technicals assessed and accruing towards the 16 allowed before a suspension.

 

[benhogan]

Yeah I think that's a bit of hyperbole: the Pistons definitely haven't been playing Stewart like a back-up center, going from 21 mpg rookie season to 28 mpg this year along with the aforementioned 3-point attempts more suited to a defensive wing.

Maybe it won't result in significantly more wins, but a frontcourt of Wiseman at C a year removed from injury and Stewart at PF with his newfound shooting, Monte Morris at PG, Jaden Ivey at SG and Cade Cunningham playing point forward seems like a very respectable squad. And Monty Williams on his 2nd coaching job, which should help with the improvement of the "utes".

To this end, Detroit is doing the extension with the intent of locking Stewart in before "the leap(TM)" with the team around him improving. Sure it could be a gamble, but the team is not against the salary cap and in essence decided on him as the safest bet to extend now if they wish to stagger rookie extensions. When looking at bottom-line advanced stats (they aren't the same style of player) Stewart's output now is that he's essentially Grant Williams who got a 4-yr/$53 FA contract. I'd argue Grant has been handed a silver spoon thus far in his career with exceptional players at the top of the roster and he's much closer to his ceiling than Stewart. Still an overpay for a non-FA, but you get my drift...

I get Stewart is a "starter" on the Pistons, but he wouldn't start for the 29 other teams in the NBA. He's a "beef" Center & not even the best one on the worst team in the NBA. Jalen Duren is better now & holds more promise. Wiseman owns a higher ceiling. Is he better than Bagley & Livers at the 4? BUT if you believe Beef Stew is going to turn into "Al Horford" (suggested somewhere above) then it's a great signing. BUT I don't see it.

"Style of play" is critically important when assembling a team. The Grant comp is odd, GW can guard the perimeter while Stewart can't & nail a Corner3 at a high rate which makes him a nice complementary role player for Dallas. Stewart has flat-lined since his rookie year. He'd probably slot in as the 3rd string Center on the Mavs today.

League-wide, the back-up Center role is the one place where you can find value in the NBA. I'm really against paying 3-4yr money for them especially since the new CBA makes the "its just the owner's money" argument now foolish. Detroit should be using its CAP space to add bad contracts & First round picks, especially 3 months before the start of the NBA season where more trades could occur (& they could play 3rd wheel). OR next Summer when many teams will be up against the 2nd apron.

Detroit is a "Respectable Squad", what does that even mean? If you believe that, then Isaiah Stewart optimism makes some sense. Las Vegas has it right, Detroit & the Wizards have the lowest over/under win totals in the NBA at 25.5. They are firmly in rebuild mode but their GM & owner are in denial. Obviously, $45MM/3yrs gtd isn't crippling to any NBA team, but this contract & its timing is just one more small head-scratcher from Troy Weaver.

 

[BigMike]

Brad ahead of the curve. Tough break, Memphis.

That was my reaction, wtf is Smart going to do. Is a flop where you over embellish legitimate contact. Marcus seemed the kind of getting some contact, but then exploding from the contact as if he got hid by a car going 60 mph

 

[the moops]

NBA refs are so bad and the NBA is so hard to officiate,

NBA refs are the best in the business. If they are bad, it is because of how hard the game is to officiate

 

[Jimbodandy]

That was my reaction, wtf is Smart going to do. Is a flop where you over embellish legitimate contact. Marcus seemed the kind of getting some contact, but then exploding from the contact as if he got hid by a car going 60 mph

What'll be interesting is whether the refs choose to emphasize the offensive player flops (e.g., Trae), the defensive player flops (e.g., Marcus), both equally, or neither. My guess is that this thing will be called less often than the take foul unfortunately.

 

[CoffeeNerdness]

Where do the opportunities to call flops actually exist? This rule had to have been created with the idea that flops exist but there wasn't a tool the refs had to punish the act so you have to presume that all flops have gone uncalled because there wasn't anything to call. The flops that fool the refs will still exist, so those won't be called flops.

What I landed on as actions that will be called are only things that refs previously ignored because the player's action didn't have the rule to enforce it e.g. the times that a player like Marcus hits the floor and the refs let play carry on. IIRC, there was a play like that against Miami where Bam bumped into Marcus who hit the floor, both players reacted as if there was a foul committed, but the refs let the play carry on. There was enough action there to make some sort of call, and letting the play carry on didn't feel right. In real time, the refs must have determined that it wasn't a defensive foul on Marcus and that Marcus embellished the contact that resulted in him landing on the floor. At the end of the day, this just won't be called much and will likely be like seasonal rules emphasis in other sports where the refs propensity to call the infraction wanes as the season progresses.

I agree that enforcement should occur after the game. Right now, I figure that the spirit of the rule may actually be subverted in the post-game when the refs rescind a flop called against Lebron (bonus points for bringing up their sleep cycle).

 

[OurF'ingCity]

Where do the opportunities to call flops actually exist? This rule had to have been created with the idea that flops exist but there wasn't a tool the refs had to punish the act so you have to presume that all flops have gone uncalled because there wasn't anything to call. The flops that fool the refs will still exist, so those won't be called flops.

What I landed on as actions that will be called are only things that refs previously ignored because the player's action didn't have the rule to enforce it e.g. the times that a player like Marcus hits the floor and the refs let play carry on. IIRC, there was a play like that against Miami where Bam bumped into Marcus who hit the floor, both players reacted as if there was a foul committed, but the refs let the play carry on. There was enough action there to make some sort of call, and letting the play carry on didn't feel right. In real time, the refs must have determined that it wasn't a defensive foul on Marcus and that Marcus embellished the contact that resulted in him landing on the floor. At the end of the day, this just won't be called much and will likely be like seasonal rules emphasis in other sports where the refs propensity to call the infraction wanes as the season progresses.

I agree that enforcement should occur after the game. Right now, I figure that the spirit of the rule may actually be subverted in the post-game when the refs rescind a flop called against Lebron (bonus points for bringing up their sleep cycle).

Exactly. This is only going to change the occasional non-call into an extra free throw. It’s going to do nothing about the numerous “fouls” that guys like Young, Butler, etc. draw because by definition if a ref thinks those are actual fouls (which they must, otherwise they wouldn’t call it), it’s not a flop.

 

[lovegtm]

NBA refs are the best in the business. If they are bad, it is because of how hard the game is to officiate

This is always apparent whenever you see refs from other levels have to fill in, or when you see how good someone who people complain about is (like Foster).

I'm extremely confident that most (all?) members of this board would do a laughably bad job if they had to ref an NBA game. Like "Jordan dunking on midgets" bad.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

NBA refs are the best in the business. If they are bad, it is because of how hard the game is to officiate

I can only imagine how bad replacement refs would be in the NBA.

 

[luckiestman]

Catching in game flops is tough. I suggested post game video review but I’ll take what I can get. Need to end flop culture.

 

[lars10]

NBA refs are the best in the business. If they are bad, it is because of how hard the game is to officiate

There is absolutely no way to show this is true is there? And Marc Davis.

 

[bosockboy]

There is absolutely no way to show this is true is there? And Marc Davis.

We found Jake O’Donnell’s account on SOSH.

 

[Pablo's TB Lover]

I get Stewart is a "starter" on the Pistons, but he wouldn't start for the 29 other teams in the NBA. He's a "beef" Center & not even the best one on the worst team in the NBA. Jalen Duren is better now & holds more promise. Wiseman owns a higher ceiling. Is he better than Bagley & Livers at the 4? BUT if you believe Beef Stew is going to turn into "Al Horford" (suggested somewhere above) then it's a great signing. BUT I don't see it.

"Style of play" is critically important when assembling a team. The Grant comp is odd, GW can guard the perimeter while Stewart can't & nail a Corner3 at a high rate which makes him a nice complementary role player for Dallas. Stewart has flat-lined since his rookie year. He'd probably slot in as the 3rd string Center on the Mavs today.

League-wide, the back-up Center role is the one place where you can find value in the NBA. I'm really against paying 3-4yr money for them especially since the new CBA makes the "its just the owner's money" argument now foolish. Detroit should be using its CAP space to add bad contracts & First round picks, especially 3 months before the start of the NBA season where more trades could occur (& they could play 3rd wheel). OR next Summer when many teams will be up against the 2nd apron.

Detroit is a "Respectable Squad", what does that even mean? If you believe that, then Isaiah Stewart optimism makes some sense. Las Vegas has it right, Detroit & the Wizards have the lowest over/under win totals in the NBA at 25.5. They are firmly in rebuild mode but their GM & owner are in denial. Obviously, $45MM/3yrs gtd isn't crippling to any NBA team, but this contract & its timing is just one more small head-scratcher from Troy Weaver.

We'll agree to disagree, I think I have spent too much time thinking about Stewart already lol. If I remember I'll come back to this to either accept defeat or take a victory lap on the Pistons after this season. Getting just into the 20s for wins won't make a major dent, but if they approach 30 that is certainly trending well.

 

[Euclis20]

Catching in game flops is tough. I suggested post game video review but I’ll take what I can get. Need to end flop culture.

I think this will go on for one season, there will be a huge outcry from players and teams when the refs get it wrong multiple times (either missing obvious ones or calling flops when upon review there is clear contact), and it gets scrapped entirely 12 months from now. That would be a major step back for anyone who doesn't like flopping.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

This is always apparent whenever you see refs from other levels have to fill in, or when you see how good someone who people complain about is (like Foster).

I'm extremely confident that most (all?) members of this board would do a laughably bad job if they had to ref an NBA game. Like "Jordan dunking on midgets" bad.

100% right here. It is the toughest league in the world to officiate with an enormous gap to second. I'm sure there are some in lesser leagues, G-League and overseas, or college who could become competent at the NBA level over time or maybe already surpass those at the bottom of the NBA officials current food chain like any other job. For the most part you likely have THE 20 best NBA officials in the world right here officiating NBA games imo.

 

[Jed Zeppelin]

The biggest flops in the current game are probably the ones least likely to be called under this rule. When the league says flop what they are really thinking about is actually a guy taking some contact to the chest and flying backwards more than is necessary. That is already odd to police as a flop because it is often a defender's only defense against an offensive player bashing shoulder first into them with impunity. A true flop of this style, i.e. very minimal contact, actually doesn't happen that often. Guys in the NBA are strong as an ox, who is anyone to say that taking a shoulder to the chest wouldn't cause another player to fall down?

The actual flops that should be vigorously called are the Harden/Butler style of falling after every single jump shot despite no contact in an attempt to draw a 3pt foul. I would be shocked if even a single of those were called this year but are imo far more egregious than the typical Smart-style flop which usually does involve taking genuine contact, but exaggerating it. As with replay, this is going to be stupid and counterproductive.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

There is absolutely no way to show this is true is there?

If there were any kind of stakes to these summer league games, people would be screaming about the refereeing.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

I can only imagine how bad replacement refs would be in the NBA.

We don't have to imagine. I was too young to notice the strike of 1977 when replacements officiated the end of the regular season and start of playoffs before an apparent revolt due to poor officiating forced the leagues hand to get the striking refs what they want and back on the court. Now try and imagine that today with all the intricacies of the NBA compared to other leagues that didn't exist 45 years ago?

Lets see how the 4 new officials this upcoming season grade out. Cheryl Flores, Robery Hussey, Matt Kallio and Dannica Mosher have been promoted from the G-League and WNBA. They obv graded out as the best of their respective leagues so this will be interesting to follow.

 

[The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa]

The new flopping penalty is a start, but one free throw in a regular season game even if a fine is assessed are slaps on the wrist. There needs to be a humiliation component as well. I want to see an NHL Department of Player Safety style video prepared for every flop that gets assessed, with a full 2-minute serious narration of why it is a flop: "Kyle Lowry was assessed a flopping violation and fined $20,000. (*Smash cut intimidating outro*)"

Furthering the NHL model, how about a 1 minute stint in a penalty box, giving the opposing team a power play. I'm not serious, because the refs would mess it up horribly, but it would be fun.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Furthering the NHL model, how about a 1 minute stint in a penalty box, giving the opposing team a power play.

Do we go to replay on every call? This would be a terrible implementation for game flow. If the officials made the call they obv don't feel it is a flop or that is what they would have called. Any penalties need to occur post-game in the form of fines/penalties imo. We've seen the NCAA attempt this and from what i saw it is pretty much a disaster. First of all you have way too many collegiate teams to have a roster full of capable collegiate officials who are trying to make bang-bang calls AND then trying to determine whether the player flopped. I lol'd on multiple occasions even with the limited amount of college BB i watched last season. Some were embarassingly bad.

 

[Pablo's TB Lover]

Catching in game flops is tough. I suggested post game video review but I’ll take what I can get. Need to end flop culture.

I think the best way to end flop culture is to scale back the calling of offensive fouls in general. For as long as I've watched college basketball their soft offensive foul calls always drove me nuts. The NBA had done it right until a turning point maybe 10-15 years ago, when the borderline calls where feet are sliding as the ballhandler jumps and the "statue" gets a tiny brush-by and falls over started up in earnest. This benefit of the doubt to the defense is odd when contrasted with how strict the league is against defenders over minor hand checks.

It seems like the offensive foul overcorrection occurred as a trade-back to the defense following the tightening of hand-check enforcement.

 

[luckiestman]

I think the best way to end flop culture is to scale back the calling of offensive fouls in general. For as long as I've watched college basketball their soft offensive foul calls always drove me nuts. The NBA had done it right until a turning point maybe 10-15 years ago, when the borderline calls where feet are sliding as the ballhandler jumps and the "statue" gets a tiny brush-by and falls over started up in earnest. This benefit of the doubt to the defense is odd when contrasted with how strict the league is against defenders over minor hand checks.

It seems like the offensive foul overcorrection occurred as a trade-back to the defense following the tightening of hand-check enforcement.

That could be something too. For me the embellishment drives me nuts.There is straight flopping but I also would try to stop embellishment. That’s a gray area because they are often letter of the law fouls but embellishment needs to stop.

 

[BigMike]

The biggest flops in the current game are probably the ones least likely to be called under this rule. When the league says flop what they are really thinking about is actually a guy taking some contact to the chest and flying backwards more than is necessary. That is already odd to police as a flop because it is often a defender's only defense against an offensive player bashing shoulder first into them with impunity. A true flop of this style, i.e. very minimal contact, actually doesn't happen that often. Guys in the NBA are strong as an ox, who is anyone to say that taking a shoulder to the chest wouldn't cause another player to fall down?

The actual flops that should be vigorously called are the Harden/Butler style of falling after every single jump shot despite no contact in an attempt to draw a 3pt foul. I would be shocked if even a single of those were called this year but are imo far more egregious than the typical Smart-style flop which usually does involve taking genuine contact, but exaggerating it. As with replay, this is going to be stupid and counterproductive.

And i think the Smart flop they were sort of already ignoring by basically not calling them . Lord knows Smart had a ton of these uncalled in the last playoff. And it is pretty easy for a ref to basically say I don't believe you and not make the call.

 

[Justthetippett]

If they are going to penalize embellishments they'll also have to start calling offensive fouls where the offensive player initiates the contact illegally. Falling down by the defensive player also has a safety element to it. It's good they are trying to fix this, but it's probably going to a trial and error process.

 

[Cellar-Door]

you guys are putting way too much thought into this. It's going to be the same as every point of emphasis from the last 10 years (including the fines for flops intitiative), they'll make some high profile calls the first 2 months then the refs will stop calling the point of emphasis by the All-Star break and that will be that.

 

[JakeRae]

If they are going to penalize embellishments they'll also have to start calling offensive fouls where the offensive player initiates the contact illegally. Falling down by the defensive player also has a safety element to it. It's good they are trying to fix this, but it's probably going to a trial and error process.

I’ve always been convinced that a significant part of defensive “flopping” is actually anticipating contact and moving away from it to minimize the violence of collisions. Players do that not just for safety but to get calls, but the safety piece is really important and is a strong reason not to discourage this. It’s also something that regularly gets ignored.

Occasionally, defensive players get it wrong and move too early. That’s a flop because if there is no actual contact, they are just propelling themselves to the ground. But the other “embellishment” I strongly disagree with the majority view that reducing it is good for the game. I don’t want to see NBA defenders have to actually plant when Giannis barrels into them a couple dozen times a game. That is just going to lead to a mountain of injuries, including to the games star players. No one wants that.

 

[Jimbodandy]

This is always apparent whenever you see refs from other levels have to fill in, or when you see how good someone who people complain about is (like Foster).

I'm extremely confident that most (all?) members of this board would do a laughably bad job if they had to ref an NBA game. Like "Jordan dunking on midgets" bad.

This is undoubtedly true. I reffed scrimmages for the eighth grade team a couple of times, and basically everyone on the team was yelling at me by the end of the night, even though I was one of the guys who would be running them suicides in the next practice. That's eighth grade. Takes years and years of experience to be qualified to ref a decent high school league.

 

[benhogan]

We'll agree to disagree, I think I have spent too much time thinking about Stewart already lol. If I remember I'll come back to this to either accept defeat or take a victory lap on the Pistons after this season. Getting just into the 20s for wins won't make a major dent, but if they approach 30 that is certainly trending well.

Ha. Pistons fever comes to the Cellar!

Feel free to dunk on me when they are parading down Main Street Detroit after winning the Mid-season Classic

 

[benhogan]

Do we go to replay on every call? This would be a terrible implementation for game flow. If the officials made the call they obv don't feel it is a flop or that is what they would have called. Any penalties need to occur post-game in the form of fines/penalties imo. We've seen the NCAA attempt this and from what i saw it is pretty much a disaster. First of all you have way too many collegiate teams to have a roster full of capable collegiate officials who are trying to make bang-bang calls AND then trying to determine whether the player flopped. I lol'd on multiple occasions even with the limited amount of college BB i watched last season. Some were embarassingly bad.

The NBA needs to get their replay officiating in order. Having a ref look at a monitor at the half-court in stadium lighting is asinine

 

[lovegtm]

This is undoubtedly true. I reffed scrimmages for the eighth grade team a couple of times, and basically everyone on the team was yelling at me by the end of the night, even though I was one of the guys who would be running them suicides in the next practice. That's eighth grade. Takes years and years of experience to be qualified to ref a decent high school league.

I blame Naismith for making a sport that is just too damn hard to ref, as much as I love it.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

I blame Naismith for making a sport that is just too damn hard to ref, as much as I love it.

It was pretty easy to ref back then and even into the 70's/80's when ANY contact constitutes a foul. Now that only occurs when LeBron, Butler. Harden or Reaves penetrates.

 

[Montana Fan]

It was pretty easy to ref back then and even into the 70's/80's when ANY contact constitutes a foul. Now that only occurs when LeBron, Butler. Harden or Reaves penetrates.

 

[seltix]

you guys are putting way too much thought into this. It's going to be the same as every point of emphasis from the last 10 years (including the fines for flops intitiative), they'll make some high profile calls the first 2 months then the refs will stop calling the point of emphasis by the All-Star break and that will be that.

ugh. you remember those first two months a couple years ago? back when guys like harden and trae weren't getting those asinine calls when they dove and dropped every trip up the floor? it was almost as if we were watching basketball again instead of soccer.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

ugh. you remember those first two months a couple years ago? back when guys like harden and trae weren't getting those asinine calls when they dove and dropped every trip up the floor? it was almost as if we were watching basketball again instead of soccer.

The problem was that many of those calls were fouls by the letter of the law. You are never going to fix officiating when everything is so subjective and you have elite players who understand how to manipulate the rules.

 

[seltix]

The problem was that many of those calls were fouls by the letter of the law. You are never going to fix officiating when everything is so subjective and you have elite players who understand how to manipulate the rules.

and that's why, instead of trying to fix the officiating, the nba braintrust is going to try to fix the players by letting the refs tell them they're bad at acting.

maybe they'll decide that every 3 flop techs will equal a real tech, postgame, and an extra $10,000 fine. and instead of L2M, they'll produce a "worst flops of the game" video. shaqtin' should get on that.

 

[lars10]

We found Jake O’Donnell’s account on SOSH.

No you're right.. basketball is too fast to ref and can only be done by the most absolutely elite officials ever... that's why Joey Crawford ref'd until he was 65... Dick Bavetta retired at 75. Because we know that these guys were the best refs available at the time and even though basketball is really fast there were none better. Honestly shocked Foster is only 56.

I do think that the NBA deserves some credit for getting rid of the old guard.

 

[lars10]

This is always apparent whenever you see refs from other levels have to fill in, or when you see how good someone who people complain about is (like Foster).

I'm extremely confident that most (all?) members of this board would do a laughably bad job if they had to ref an NBA game. Like "Jordan dunking on midgets" bad.

No shit. You're saying that people that have never ref'd a basketball game would be bad at reffing the highest end games of the sport?

Edit: I don't personally know the job history of any of the refs in the NBA.. or those that would be in line to replace them.. Foster is actually one of the better refs in the league fairly obviously.. personally I'd prefer to not know any of their names.. because usually the only reason we know their names is because of their performance good or bad...but usually bad.