General Offseason Thread.

128

Member
SoSH Member
May 4, 2019
10,316
Oubre is a good signing. He has flaws, but he can get buckets
He can score, but how content is he going to be in what presumably will be a minor role, barring injuries to Philly's frontline wings? I have no doubt the C's also thought about signing him and opted not to, for whatever reason.
 
Last edited:

PedroKsBambino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2003
32,433
The big thing he gets them is more ability to withstand dealing Harden, or having him quasi-sit out (I know he can't afford to actually sit out, but lollygagging and having a "sore hamstring" is definitely in play for him). Oubre can score, and while it's a downgrade for sure he's a piece.

Suppose Darryl is considering dealing Harden at least partially for down-the-road assets? Seems hard to believe, but maybe this opens up that possiblity a bit for them.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
49,838
Oubre is a good signing. He has flaws, but he can get buckets
Hard disagree on your first sentence. The second one is true but as you well know, defense and team play is impactful as well. Oubre appears to consider defending and playing within a system as optional at best.

That said maybe Nurse succeeds where someone like Kerr failed before them.
 

DavidTai

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 18, 2003
1,302
Herndon, VA
One of the underrated aspect of the Sixers approach to team building is how often they’ve reached for the talented underachievers over the years. I’m shocked that they never rostered Christian Wood or Boogie Cousins to be honest.
They had Christian Wood as an undrafted free agent in 2015, his first year.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,945
Santa Monica
Oubre is 27 averages over 20ppg and gets the minimum. All the guy needs to do is give effort on D & pass the ball.
He's a consistent negative +/-, On-Off player, so I get the non-interest league-wide.

There is no downside for Philly at that price. Maybe this is the cold water in the face that he needed?
 

PedroKsBambino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2003
32,433
Oubre is 27 averages over 20ppg and gets the minimum. All the guy needs to do is give effort on D & pass the ball.
He's a consistent negative +/-, On-Off player, so I get the non-interest league-wide.

There is no downside for Philly at that price. Maybe this is the cold water in the face that he needed?
I'm unfortunately going to guess that there is never going to be an 'ah ha' moment for him - he (like Christian Wood) is just going to be one of those talented, flawed guys who never really figures out how to change and be all that different. There's a place for guys like that even on a good team, but you need to have few of them and be careful about the gaps...
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
31,713
The big thing he gets them is more ability to withstand dealing Harden, or having him quasi-sit out (I know he can't afford to actually sit out, but lollygagging and having a "sore hamstring" is definitely in play for him). Oubre can score, and while it's a downgrade for sure he's a piece.

Suppose Darryl is considering dealing Harden at least partially for down-the-road assets? Seems hard to believe, but maybe this opens up that possiblity a bit for them.
I dunno. Harden runs PHI's offense. If Harden isn't playing, Oubre isn't going to be running anything, unless the offense consists of "Get Kelly Oubre a shot."

Yes Oubre averaged over 20 ppg last year but he had a career high USG rating (26.5) and he also shot 31.9% from 3P on over 7 attempts per game. I'm pretty sure Kelly isn't getting 17 shots per game with PHI like he did last year.
 

PedroKsBambino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2003
32,433
I dunno. Harden runs PHI's offense. If Harden isn't playing, Oubre isn't going to be running anything, unless the offense consists of "Get Kelly Oubre a shot."

Yes Oubre averaged over 20 ppg last year but he had a career high USG rating (26.5) and he also shot 31.9% from 3P on over 7 attempts per game. I'm pretty sure Kelly isn't getting 17 shots per game with PHI like he did last year.
I'm not a big Oubre fan, but the comparison is Oubre vs Philly's alternative - roughly Korkmaz or Danuel House. So he's a useful addition relative to those guys getting material non-Harden minutes but sure---he is still available for a minimum for a reason
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
31,713
I'm not a big Oubre fan, but the comparison is Oubre vs Philly's alternative - roughly Korkmaz or Danuel House. So he's a useful addition relative to those guys getting material non-Harden minutes but sure---he is still available for a minimum for a reason
In terms of non-material Harden minutes for guys that are wings who are coming off the bench, PHI currently has Green (granted he's on a non-guaranteed deal), House, Tucker, Korkmaz, Jaden Springer, and Melton. Korkmaz wasn't playing at the end of last year and asked for a trade (but he didn't get one either!).

I guess PHI will use training camp to see who is going to be the most useful guy in that role but it seems to me (but what do I know!) that having someone who can play defense would be a better fit than someone who is looking to shoot all of the time.
 

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
8,688
Imaginationland
If you want an inefficient chucker who can score 20 ppg on a terrible team, Oubre is your guy. His net on/off numbers have been abysmal almost his entire career, and they crater when he plays in games that count (he was -12.1 per 100 on a decent Warriors team in 2021 that would win the title the following year, and in 18 career playoff games, he's -17.7 per 100). It seems almost impossible to be that bad when you start 50 games alongside Steph Curry.

I don't see any reason to think he's a better bench option on a playoff team than the guys mentioned above, but at a minimum deal it's a perfectly reasonable signing. Maybe a minimum deal in the middle of his prime (after making $54.6M over the last 4 years) will wake him up because he's definitely got some talent, but 8 seasons in, it's yet to translate into anything positive for his team.
 

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
8,688
Imaginationland
If Brogdon is truly pissy, send him to the Clips, Hield to Celtics, and pieces to Indy.

Brogdon is better defensively than Hield, but not by much. Hield isn’t going to over dribble, and a truly elite movement shooter would add another element to the offense.

View: https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1704620839814013140

View: https://twitter.com/AlexGoldenNBA/status/1704622146138337426
Unless the relationship is absolutely beyond repair, the Celtics can't afford to send Brogdon away without getting back a playoff rotation point guard. With Smart and Brogdon gone, our primary ball-handlers will be White (point guard skills but has primarily played off guard so far in his career), Pritchard (a shooting guard in the body of a small point guard, and unclear if he can play real minutes in the playoffs) and Tatum. I'd be ok with sacrificing a bit of quality for reliability in a Brogdon swap, but it has to be with a guy that can initiate the offense in a playoff game, otherwise it's not worth it.
 

PedroKsBambino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2003
32,433
In terms of non-material Harden minutes for guys that are wings who are coming off the bench, PHI currently has Green (granted he's on a non-guaranteed deal), House, Tucker, Korkmaz, Jaden Springer, and Melton. Korkmaz wasn't playing at the end of last year and asked for a trade (but he didn't get one either!).

I guess PHI will use training camp to see who is going to be the most useful guy in that role but it seems to me (but what do I know!) that having someone who can play defense would be a better fit than someone who is looking to shoot all of the time.
Yeah, but remember the scenario I raised was a non-Harden world....so Korkmaz would likely play. And he's a lot worse than Oubre. I am not a big Oubre fan, but the list of guys above should suggest that they have a fairly big need for talent shouldn't it? Green hasn't been a credible player in a couple years; Tucker is not a wing; Melton is really a guard. In a non-Harden world I cannot imagine they don't have minutes for Oubre---and pretty clearly they can't either, right? They must have suggested a role to get him to sign there.

As for Hield, I don't think he's as good a scorer as Brogdon (he's a lot less efficient) and he's not in the same stratosphere as a passer. I wouldn't do that straight-up.
 

the moops

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 19, 2016
5,005
Saint Paul, MN
Unless the relationship is absolutely beyond repair, the Celtics can't afford to send Brogdon away without getting back a playoff rotation point guard. With Smart and Brogdon gone, our primary ball-handlers will be White (point guard skills but has primarily played off guard so far in his career), Pritchard (a shooting guard in the body of a small point guard, and unclear if he can play real minutes in the playoffs) and Tatum. I'd be ok with sacrificing a bit of quality for reliability in a Brogdon swap, but it has to be with a guy that can initiate the offense in a playoff game, otherwise it's not worth it.
They would have the entire first half of the year to figure that out. Or hell go and sign Neto or Ish or Dragic
 

PedroKsBambino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2003
32,433
They would have the entire first half of the year to figure that out. Or hell go and sign Neto or Ish or Dragic
Neto destroyed his patellar tendon this summer, so he's off the list...I agree with Euclis, the combination of ballhandling and size is something we can't lose.
 

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
8,688
Imaginationland
They would have the entire first half of the year to figure that out. Or hell go and sign Neto or Ish or Dragic
Neto is out per PKB, and Dragic hasn't been worth playoff minutes since leaving Miami (he had his moments with Brooklyn against Boston in 2022 but he was less than a speed bump on defense, and he played all of 7 playoff minutes with the Bucks this past Spring). Ish Smith? He's got the ring so good for him, but he's another very old point guard that barely played in the most recent playoffs (12 total minutes with Denver). Neither of these guys will be of any use to Boston (or anyone) in the playoffs this coming year.

We've still got some assets that we could use before the trade deadline, but it'd be malpractice to enter the season as a title contender without a single experienced, useful point guard on the roster.
 

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
8,688
Imaginationland
White played as much PG as either Brogdon or Smart last year in the playoffs
I'm pretty bullish on White as point guard, but Smart played point whenever he was in. I don't remember the same for Brogdon, but it seems noteworthy that White was 6th on the team in assists during the playoffs. Either way my issue isn't with handing the starting point guard job to White, it's not having a backup that we know can see playoff minutes. The fact that White is relatively unproven in his new role just exacerbates the problem.
 

nattysez

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 30, 2010
8,746
Hmm... I wonder if this means the NBA thinks teams are sniffing around Primo. Or maybe they just wanted to get this finalized before camps start and it would be a distraction.

Former San Antonio Spurs guard Josh Primo is being suspended four games by the NBA for "conduct detrimental" after he allegedly exposed himself to women, according to ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,945
Santa Monica
Apparently, what Poole said prior to Draymond punching him was:

You're an expensive backpack for 30.

Pretty nice line; we should start using it. "Hey WBCD - you're just an expensive backpack for @benhogan".


https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/heres-what-jordan-poole-reportedly-said-to-draymond-green-that-got-him-punched-in-the-face/
I'm just looking forward to the start of pre-season, so a reporter can ask both Dray and Poole which one it is

"Triple Single" or "Expensive backpack for 30"???

Even the pillow fights around here can't touch the pettiness of NBA drama queens ;)
 
Last edited:

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
31,713
I'm just looking forward to the start of pre-season, so a reporter can ask both Dray and Poole which one it is

"Triple Single" or "Expensive backpack for 30"???

Even the pillow fights around here can't touch the pettiness of NBA drama queens ;)
The reporter that asked Dray that will probably get punched in the face. :cool:
 

greek_gawd_of_walks

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 14, 2009
9,216
Wiscansin, by way of Attleboro
Interesting 3&D option has just become available in Reggie Bullock. Just waived by the Spurs. Even if the Celts really wanted him, are there any implications from him being involved in the Grant Williams S&T precluding them from pursuing him? He still seems to grade out well as a tough wing defender and capable 3-PT shooter. You can never have enough defensive-minded shooters imo.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/273114/Spurs-Reggie-Bullock-Agree-To-Buyout
 

Reverend

for king and country
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2007
65,713
Yeah, this is disappointing.
I dunno; I gotta think it was the “expensive”’ part more than the “backpack” part. I hate this kind of stuff, but saying someone’s overpaid in front of all your co-workers is about as close as you can come to asking for it that doesn’t involve familial relations.
 

mcpickl

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 23, 2007
4,564
Interesting 3&D option has just become available in Reggie Bullock. Just waived by the Spurs. Even if the Celts really wanted him, are there any implications from him being involved in the Grant Williams S&T precluding them from pursuing him? He still seems to grade out well as a tough wing defender and capable 3-PT shooter. You can never have enough defensive-minded shooters imo.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/273114/Spurs-Reggie-Bullock-Agree-To-Buyout
No. He just can't re-sign with Dallas.

I'd imagine he'll find a team that can offer him a bigger role than Boston can.
 

Tony C

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Apr 13, 2000
13,774
It seems weird to me that the Spurs are just giving away assets. Payne and Bullock are obviously no great shakes, but they are rotation players. Seems to me with such a young team there's something to be said to have some vets in the locker room/on the floor. I guess they have a big roster, but even if you want to dump them, given the rush by other teams to sign them I have to think they'd each be at least have been worth a 2nd rounder in a trade or something.
 

the moops

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 19, 2016
5,005
Saint Paul, MN
Who has the best starting 5 in the NBA right now? I still think it is DEN, but BOS and a couple others are pretty sick

Murray, Caldwell-Pope, Porter Jr., Gordon, Jokic

Holiday, White, Brown, Tatum, Porzingis

Dame, Connaughton, Middleton, Giannis, Lopez

Steph, Klay, Wiggins, Draymond, Looney

Conley, Ant, McDaniels, Anthony-Towns, Gobert

Gordon, Booker, Beal, Durant, Nurkic
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
47,738
Who has the best starting 5 in the NBA right now? I still think it is DEN, but BOS and a couple others are pretty sick

Murray, Caldwell-Pope, Porter Jr., Gordon, Jokic

Holiday, White, Brown, Tatum, Porzingis

Dame, Connaughton, Middleton, Giannis, Lopez

Steph, Klay, Wiggins, Draymond, Looney

Conley, Ant, McDaniels, Anthony-Towns, Gobert

Gordon, Booker, Beal, Durant, Nurkic
I’m surely biased but I wouldn’t trade the Celtics’ starting 5 for anyone of those.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
35,518
It seems weird to me that the Spurs are just giving away assets. Payne and Bullock are obviously no great shakes, but they are rotation players. Seems to me with such a young team there's something to be said to have some vets in the locker room/on the floor. I guess they have a big roster, but even if you want to dump them, given the rush by other teams to sign them I have to think they'd each be at least have been worth a 2nd rounder in a trade or something.
I'm sure they kicked the tires, but the likely holdup is $. Lots of teams want them at the minimum, but those teams couldn't find a way to trade for them at $6M and 10.5M. Have to salary match, and SAS can't take on a 2-1 of minimum guys (who they would then cut) because of the full roster. So... yeah if MIL had a TPE maybe they trade a 2nd (maybe not) but otherwise tough fit. I do wonder if the timing is because SAS thought BOS might take Cam Payne into the Williams TPE, then they traded for a PG, removing one of the last teams who might throw them a 2nd.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,945
Santa Monica
If PDX shrink-wraps TimeLord until the trade deadline, they could get some assets from a contender that loses one of their BIGs during the season. His contract will make him easily matchable

PDX/Cronin deserve the credit they are getting from the Dame situation. It's nice to see a small market team stand up to Miami, even if the price for Jrue was steep for Boston.

On another note, All-NBA players who are signed long-term on MAX deals still have a ton of value...which plays well for Jaylen Brown's trade value over the next few summers.
 

The Social Chair

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 17, 2010
6,293
It's amazing because the networks use the media from this week for visuals for the rest of the year. Dreads Jimmy was all over the playoffs.
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
11,186
I'd take Denver, because Jokic is the best player in the world right now (with a gap to #2, which is insane), and Murray's shit really, really works in the playoffs.
Have to agree with this.

Jokic makes Denver #1 but the Celtics are a very, very close #2.

In order:
Denver
Boston
PHX
MIL
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
12,092
around the way
I'd take Denver, because Jokic is the best player in the world right now (with a gap to #2, which is insane), and Murray's shit really, really works in the playoffs.
If your argument is that having Jokic basically makes it the best starting five, also Murray is a playoff god, then that's kinda hard to argue with.

But guys like Gordon and KCP are basically riding Jokic's coattails and are meh players anywhere else. Probably can say the same about MPJ too. I'd say that Denver is the most top-heavy org since Lebron's Cavs teams, maybe even have to go back further.