Not only that, but we've seen Bill's in-game decisions and game plans have a direct impact on wins, both during and after the Brady era. Neither achieves the same level of success without the other.Can we please dispense with this? Half the years or more the Pats won with Brady the defense was the better unit. It was a group effort, please let’s not be ridiculous and denigrate Bill’s role in the incredible run we all experienced. Saying someone new should be brought in at this point is one thing, but let’s not go here.
I also believe with a top 8-12 QB, this team would have started 3-0. The roster outside the QB position is not that bad tbh. It’s in the averageish range and they are playing the toughest schedule in the league.
You are right, denigrating his contributions to successes past is ridiculous.Can we please dispense with this? Half the years or more the Pats won with Brady the defense was the better unit. It was a group effort, please let’s not be ridiculous and denigrate Bill’s role in the incredible run we all experienced. Saying someone new should be brought in at this point is one thing, but let’s not go here.
I also believe with a top 8-12 QB, this team would have started 3-0. The roster outside the QB position is not that bad tbh. It’s in the averageish range and they are playing the toughest schedule in the league.
1989-1992 aka the car wreck daysMac Jones.
It begins and ends with him.
He doesn't have plus size, speed or arm strength, you need at least one of those to be an effective NFL QB.
I was in his camp and felt he got a raw deal last year; this year, a new OC and I thought he'd up his game.
He's not upping anything, he's going in the wrong direction.
If he's the answer, I don't want to know the question.
This organization is in deep shit; for all the fans out there who started following the team in 2001, this is what they used to look like from 1968 through1975 and 1989 through 1992.
Not good.
This. That was an absolutely ballless decision. Terrible job by Bill.Mac is the obvious one but the coaching is right up there. When the game was 3-0 and they had 3rd and 1 from inside the DAL 10 and opted to pass then kick the chickenshit FG the game was basically lost. They had 2 chances to get 1yd and would have had a decent chance at actually taking a lead and maybe just maybe the game doesn't get completely away from them.
Yeah I think so. I have a really bad case of it, I wanted him before draft and was psyched when we got him. It's getting harder and harder to pull the wool over my own eyes.Today was certainly a crushing blow for those of us who held out hope for Mac. He seemed destined the be an average starting QB. Not after today.
Yeah I think 99% of us are now ready for the Mac era to end, but does today move the needle on BB for anyone? Probably worthy of its own thread.I can't find the thread (Has BB lost his fastball ring a bell?) but I believe it's time to move on not only from Mac but BB as well. Too many poor drafts and FA signings to address clear offensive short comings. Mac has a plethora of issues and I'm not sure they're fixable.
Agree that there's no reason to somehow subtract from Bill's past successes with the team as both coach and GM, for which there is truly no peer in the NFL. People saying he was never that great at either obviously do not know WTF they are talking about (or are just venting, which is OK).
As for Bill the GM in this day and age, there is a lot to question the results of his attempting to rebuild the offense post-Brady. The results matter at the end of the day. As for Bill the coach, I personally believe he is doing the best with what Bill the GM gave him, but that's obviously up for debate.
I’m not seeing how we beat Las Vegas (Josh, Jacobi and Garoppalo are going to be motivated) or NO (Olave is gonna get 200yd receiving on this injured set of corners) or Wash (looked decent today).I was optimistic heading into this year, but with Judon and Gonzo potentially out for extended periods of time, the talent on that side of the ball took a monster hit today. Like, there’s a conceivable case where they only win 3-4 games now. But then I see names like Washington and Denver and NYJ and NO and LV on the schedule and there’s still a path to 7-9 wins, even though I don’t know what that gets you. I’m not really rooting for them to totally suck, but there’s a chance this could go downhill fast because their top defensive playmaker may be done and their CB1-4 are now out.
Belichick will be 72 next year. Time to transition to a new way of doing things with a younger guy running the operation.Yeah I think 99% of us are now ready for the Mac era to end, but does today move the needle on BB for anyone? Probably worthy of its own thread.
Open the checkbook for Ben Johnson, let him pick his QB, and give it a whirl. Can't be worse than what we're seeing now.Belichick will be 72 next year. Time to transition to a new way of doing things with a younger guy running the operation.
I think about it like this, best case scenario given the current roster construction, is probably 2025. Belichick will be 73 years old then.
They are going to need a new coach/Director of Football Operations soon anyway, might as well identify who they want and bring him in this off-season.
Why is "destined to be an average starting QB" the dream you had that was dashed in the first place?Today was certainly a crushing blow for those of us who held out hope for Mac. He seemed destined the be an average starting QB. Not after today.
I think the hope many of us have for Mac is that he ends up somewhere in the top 10-15 QBs, which is broadly average - maybe that's what Koufax was referring to.Why is "destined to be an average starting QB" the dream you had that was dashed in the first place?
I had this discussion about Barmore with a friend of mine today. Seems really disappointing.I think the hope many of us have for Mac is that he ends up somewhere in the top 10-15 QBs, which is broadly average - maybe that's what Koufax was referring to.
Just to change pace since today's blowout is reason to bitch about whatever, didn't we think that Christian Barmore was going to be much for af an impact player than he seems to be so far this year? And while we were pretty much in agreement that this year's draft was good, only Gonzalez has stood out so far. Douglas and the punter look like decent picks I guess but even heralded Keion White's numbers are underwhelming
Ouch
Just curious. What is the typical weekly range and what is league average?Mac was under pressure 50% of the time. Folks that is smash the red panic button bad. He was seeing ghosts because he was rattled. Hard to get into a rhythm was you are under fire 50% of your snaps.
If there was one play not to try to copy around the league it was the Hurts rugby rush, people seem to forget Hurts can squat 600lbs and is built like a tank in the lower body. I've seen countless teams try it and fail with their 6'4 220 lb lanky QBs this season. If your QB can't push himself this is a recipe for disaster. Much better chance doing it the Brady way and catching the DL off-guard to some extent vs. declaring for all the world this is a QB sneak.Ouch
1) They manufactured it for some perceived advantage
2) Yes
3) Hurry Up puts refs on heels too
4) Could be-if you legitimately saw something
Also remember Mac basically stuffed this into the ground and was still talking about needing to get lower in the post game.
His last tush push went high and he got the epic face wash followed by a body slam(deserved) which is apparently still in his head.
It is a tough question because it depends on multiple factors. On average it is about 30-33% but that doesn't adjust for teams that try and scheme better around it. Like a Bruce Arians team might have a 33-35% pass pressure rate but a quicker-game team like the Patriots should be in the 20-25% rate. A lot of QBs are responsible for their own pressures too and Mac is one of the best at not doing that. So Justin Fields might have a 40% rate when it should be 35% or something.Just curious. What is the typical weekly range and what is league average?
This is beyond awful, christ almighty.Here is the offensive line performance:
View attachment 71934
In true pass sets they allowed pressure on basically 2/3rds of the snaps. Overall in 34 total pass block snaps Mac had 18 pressures. The interior guys sucked and RT sucked.
Oh and both Andrews and Mafi had penalties on these snaps. Mac was responsible for 2 hurries as well.
Mac was under pressure 50% of the time. Folks that is smash the red panic button bad. He was seeing ghosts because he was rattled. Hard to get into a rhythm was you are under fire 50% of your snaps.
There is so much animosity for Mac today and I get it. He was the first goat of the game I listed playing stupid ass Josh Allen hero ball in his body. But the OL situation is completely rotten. Andrews is declining, Onwenu had a bad day, and Mafi sucks right now just like most of us who watched him thought he would this year especially in pass pro.
This is the worst or 2nd worst pass pro line in all of the NFL right now. We have a pocket passer. Defenses are taking away quick hits, and are keyed to play at shallow depth and smash underneath routes. They are giving you 1:1s outside. And we have 1 dude who is average to honestly slightly below average at winning them, Parker.
Well one positive... Trent Brown has been good this year and was pretty good yesterday despite everything collasping around himHere is the offensive line performance:
View attachment 71934
In true pass sets they allowed pressure on basically 2/3rds of the snaps. Overall in 34 total pass block snaps Mac had 18 pressures. The interior guys sucked and RT sucked.
Oh and both Andrews and Mafi had penalties on these snaps. Mac was responsible for 2 hurries as well.
Mac was under pressure 50% of the time. Folks that is smash the red panic button bad. He was seeing ghosts because he was rattled. Hard to get into a rhythm was you are under fire 50% of your snaps.
There is so much animosity for Mac today and I get it. He was the first goat of the game I listed playing stupid ass Josh Allen hero ball in his body. But the OL situation is completely rotten. Andrews is declining, Onwenu had a bad day, and Mafi sucks right now just like most of us who watched him thought he would this year especially in pass pro.
This is the worst or 2nd worst pass pro line in all of the NFL right now. We have a pocket passer. Defenses are taking away quick hits, and are keyed to play at shallow depth and smash underneath routes. They are giving you 1:1s outside. And we have 1 dude who is average to honestly slightly below average at winning them, Parker.
More likely explanation is that Onwenu is injured and probably past his prime; Andrews is old; Lowe was never good, but was a scrap heap pickup so not expected to be; and the rookie Mafi is at best a developmental prospect. And Trent Brown is no longer the Trent Brown of 2018.So Adrian Klemm?
Onwenu is 25 and in his fourth season. He’s seven months older than Cole Strange.More likely explanation is that Onwenu is injured and probably past his prime; Andrews is old; Lowe was never good, but was a scrap heap pickup so not expected to be; and the rookie Mafi is at best a developmental prospect. And Trent Brown is no longer the Trent Brown of 2018.
I've seen tackles have a couple of decent years and then fade. And the injury is something that happened last season; red flag if it's still affecting him, which appears to be the case.Onwenu is 25 and in his fourth season. He’s seven months older than Cole Strange.
Probably not. Nobody has been healthy enough to even practice, they're just throwing out different combos every week since camp opened.So Adrian Klemm?
Yeah, seems like OLmen in particular just wear down over the course of a season. And that’s when they start the season healthy.Why should we expect them to be even vaguely healthy by week 9-10, though? Do players typically get healthier as the season goes on?
Reiff is back soon, it wasn't "they'll be healthy week 9-10" but rather everyone but Strange (maybe) should be back next week, and hopefully they get a bit of stability as the season moves on. In recent years our lines have generally gotten better as the year goes on, last year and the year before. Lines with a lot of turnover or injury just need reps together at some point to have a chance.Why should we expect them to be even vaguely healthy by week 9-10, though? Do players typically get healthier as the season goes on?
Reiff was kicked inside to guard due to bad performance in camp and preseason. He was playing deep into preseason games and could’ve been a cut candidate if he didn’t get injured.Reiff is back soon, it wasn't "they'll be healthy week 9-10" but rather everyone but Strange (maybe) should be back next week, and hopefully they get a bit of stability as the season moves on. In recent years our lines have generally gotten better as the year goes on, last year and the year before. Lines with a lot of turnover or injury just need reps together at some point to have a chance.
The book on stopping New England's offense for four-plus years has been the same regardless of the quarterback or coordinator. This season, Jones has faced the fifth-highest rate of single-high safety shells and cover-one man coverage schemes. Defenses are putting seven-plus defenders in the box to stop the run, muddying the middle of the field, and forcing Jones and his wide receivers to beat them. Without any real outside threats, Jones ranks 30th out of 31 qualified quarterbacks in total expected points added against man coverage (-21.8), with a 46.5 percent completion rate when defenses play man-to-man (27th out of 31). Plus, over the last two games, Jones has seen the two highest pressure rate of his career with the Cowboys (50%) and Jets (41.4%) constantly putting the QB under duress.
Regardless of who's under center and calling plays, the issues for the offense won't go away until the talent level increases for the entire unit. If the offense continues down this same path, there's a chance they'll have a different quarterback next season. But whether it's this guy or the next guy, most quarterbacks are a product of their environment, and even the GOATs struggle relative to expectations when things around them go haywire (see: Brady, 2019).
If the Patriots don't address the root cause of their issues on offense, the fear is that they'll be spinning the tires for years until they put better talent around whoever is at quarterback.
You don't think they're a bottom five unit right now?The line is a Trent Brown injury away from being a bottom five unit.