Felger and Mazz - Creating False Naratives one day at a time

southshoresoxfan · Mar 7, 2015

Im with the majority here. Pats are down the bottom in spending because they kill it at the draft and w UDFAs. The bad teams are the ones who have to go out and overpay for FAs and try to build their teams that way.

4 sbs in 15 years, man i hope Kraft is lining his pockets.

MuppetAsteriskTalk · Mar 7, 2015

PC Drunken Friar said:
There was a report out recently and the Patriots were something like 7th from the bottom in actual cash spending the last ten years or something.

Are you sure you're not getting confused with the report that they are 5th from the bottom in cash spending last year? (Edit: It's actually 5th from the bottom in the period of 2013 to 2016. A period we are only halfway through. Obviously the huge cash spending in 2012 plus the Hernandez situation has caused cash spending to be lower than normal the last 2 years for cap reasons, but in the long run they are spending to the cap.)

I can't find any report that says they are near the bottom over the last 10 years, but I would like to see it if you can find it.

Over a short period, it's easy to be low in cash spending and yet still be at the cap. Other years, you can be way over the cap in cash spending yet still at the cap. See the article linked below. In 2012 the cap was 121 million and their cash spending was 168 million. Right around that time, Felger & Mazz were also calling them cheap.

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4760977/patriots-rank-low-in-cash-spending

Erik Hanson's Hook · Mar 7, 2015

Corsi said:
They were mocking Vince for taking the high road and writing the letter the way he did.

Did not know this, and it pisses me off more than it should.

Guy plays his ass off for 11 years, wins two titles, comes back from a major injury, is an OG both on the field and in the locker room, tries to be classy on his way out, and still gets mocked by the top-rated show in town.

'Course, maybe it's partly our fault. The one thing we can control in that previous sentence is "top rated".

j-man · Mar 7, 2015

if i was a c's fan i would really have a beef with these guys making fun of my team and how i do things if i ran 98.5 i would sell feeler contact to milw and fire Mazz and bring in Jessica moran and pair her with Keefe form 2 to 6

Quiddity · Mar 8, 2015

HomeBrew1901 said:
The "Cap is crap" is largely true, is there a cap jail, eventually yes. Can every team sign ever player to high contracts, no. But the cap is easily manipulated so that if a team really really really wants a player they can make it work in the short term. Dokes hit it on the head above with the credit card analogy.

Felger's "cap is crap" argument has devolved over the years, along with the quality of the show. His point used to be that teams could push off money to later years in backloaded contracts, and with the cap going up by a fair portion every year, that lessened the impact. Which was correct until 2009/2010 or so when the cap stopped going up every year. Incidentally around the same time as that he dumbed down the argument quite a bit, which he's gone off the rails with for years at this point. The Pats can sign any player they want for any amount of money. If they don't, it is because Robert Kraft is cheap (although he will buffer it by saying "I'm not saying that Kraft is cheap, but...". Also, "no team has ever gone into cap jail", even though every year at this time we see numerous cuts of decent players, all for cap reasons. If he went back to how he used to do it and actually explain how the cap going up every year (which has started again) and backloaded contracts reduced its significant, I would buy it. But he abandoned doing it that way a long time ago.

Let us also not forget how blatantly he and Mazz leave out cap-related key points to fit their arguments (although with Mazz it may just be pure ignorance rather than trolling). Like all the talk of how Brady won't play for such a low salary in 2015, while ignoring all of the signing bonus money, and the fact that his salary for 2014 is actually lower than the 2015 salary that Mazz claims he won't play for.

dcmissle · Mar 9, 2015

F: "So if McCourtey doesn't call 'em, they lose him. It's gonna bite 'em, Tony. It's gonna bite 'em ... They are playing with fire ..."

M: "Yep. Could bite 'em with Revis. He doesn't call back. He takes the money and runs ..."

They will, of course, be miffed that McCourtey called back.

steveluck7 · Mar 9, 2015

"McCourty played this pefectly, Mike. Make them pay every last dime. I have no idea why every player doesn't do this instead of taking whatever crap offer the team puts in front of them."

"Now they're paying $9 million for a saftey, Tony... they won't want to pay Revis what he deserves. It's the actual cash outlay that they're concerned with and they just used a chunk of it on a guy they could have replaced at a lower number."

jsinger121 · Mar 9, 2015

Mazz: The Patriots cracked Mike in signing Devin McCourty

jsinger121 · Mar 9, 2015

Felger: McCourty is bad value.

Corsi · Mar 9, 2015

Felger: "Any 4-year-old can figure out the cap."

jimbobim · Mar 9, 2015

These guys have literally spewed nonsense saying "they overpaid to keep him not that player" . Someone needs to tell them hey guys he left money on the table so yes he was valued around this price. Cognitive dissonance at it's finest...

SidelineCameras · Mar 9, 2015

steveluck7 said:
"McCourty played this pefectly, Mike. Make them pay every last dime. I have no idea why every player doesn't do this instead of taking whatever crap offer the team puts in front of them."

"Now they're paying $9 million for a saftey, Tony... they won't want to pay Revis what he deserves. It's the actual cash outlay that they're concerned with and they just used a chunk of it on a guy they could have replaced at a lower number."

If the bolded is true, they're violating their own "commandment" about not bashing a team for something that hasn't happened yet.

NDame616 · Mar 9, 2015

SidelineCameras said:
If the bolded is true, they're violating their own "commandment" about not bashing a team for something that hasn't happened yet.

You do realize half the time the convo is "well we are going to break a commandment of the show...."

MillarTime · Mar 9, 2015

I have no idea why anyone would listen to them. Very little difference between them and Greg Doyel at this point.

Quiddity · Mar 9, 2015

All the time they spend bashing the Pats for being cheap, and now when they sign McCourty, they complain about it being too much. Granted, anyone who listens to this show would know that Mazz underrates McCourty quite a bit.

Felger: "They can make his cap number anything they want!".

In Felger's fantasy land where the cap doesn't mean anything? I suppose so. Not in this one. Yeah, they could pay him $45 million and make the cap hit $1 million per year. But to do so they'd have to add an absurd amount of years of the deal at the end at low salaries, which McCourty would never sign. Funny, he always forgets that part.

axx · Mar 10, 2015

F&M should be good tomorrow.

jsinger121 · Mar 10, 2015

"The Pats cheapened out Mike and lost him to one of their biggest rivals."

Smiling Joe Hesketh · Mar 10, 2015

Do yourselves a favor and skip the show tomorrow. We already know how their act will go regarding Revis.

shawnrbu · Mar 10, 2015

jsinger121 said:
"The Pats cheapened out Mike and lost him to one of their biggest rivals."

"Look, when you have a difference maker like Revis, you find a way to get a deal done, ok!
"The smartest guy in the room should be able to make the cap work with Revis. You had your chance last year to sign Revis long term when his value was lower, but you chose to make it a 1 year deal with an out."
"They BLEW IT, Mike!"

patinorange · Mar 10, 2015

Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
Do yourselves a favor and skip the show tomorrow. We already know how their act will go regarding Revis.

Skip it? It's going to be awesome.

southshoresoxfan · Mar 10, 2015

Must listen radio. The trolling and callers will be comedy gold.

NDame616 · Mar 10, 2015

They already covered themselves all week

"whatever the Patriots do we will hear 'OMG IN BILL WE TRUST HE'S THE SMARTEST MAN IN THE ROOM!"

So, no matter what happened, they were covered against people saying the Pats did the right move

soxhop411 · Mar 10, 2015

Sometimes I feel lucky the radio guys in LA are not this bad. Well unless it involves the lakers.

NortheasternPJ · Mar 11, 2015

They had a horse Mike! A legit horse!

There aren't that many horses! I hate ponies!!! A five year old could figure out the cap!!

rodderick · Mar 11, 2015

Felger and Mazz can be assholes about the pettiest of things, but feeling very strongly that the Pats screwed up in not giving Revis that deal isn't absurd in the least to me. If a week ago I told this board Revis could be had for that kind of money, how many posters here would have said "nah, I'll pass"?

Marbleheader · Mar 11, 2015

I love how Felger for years has beat the drum that the NFL is all about the QB, yet he was saying aside from their pesky QB issue, the Jets could very well be better than the Patriots over the course of Revis' contract.

PeaceSignMoose · Mar 11, 2015

Marbleheader said:
I love how Felger for years has beat the drum that the NFL is all about the QB, yet he was saying aside from their pesky QB issue, the Jets could very well be better than the Patriots over the course of Revis' contract.

I love how Felger prefaced saying that by saying the Jets have not passed the patriots, but then spent the next hour talking about how the Jets are passing the Patriots.

Darnell's Son · Mar 11, 2015

PeaceSignMoose said:
I love how Felger prefaced saying that by saying the Jets have not passed the patriots, but then spent the next hour talking about how the Jets are passing the Patriots.

I remember hearing that a few years ago.

MuppetAsteriskTalk · Mar 11, 2015

rodderick said:
Felger and Mazz can be assholes about the pettiest of things, but feeling very strongly that the Pats screwed up in not giving Revis that deal isn't absurd in the least to me. If a week ago I told this board Revis could be had for that kind of money, how many posters here would have said "nah, I'll pass"?

No way the Pats should have matched that contract -- so at least 1.

MuppetAsteriskTalk · Mar 11, 2015

NortheasternPJ said:
They had a horse Mike! A legit horse!

There aren't that many horses! I hate ponies!!! A five year old could figure out the cap!!

Mike, they would rather have 5 nickels than a quarter!

joe dokes · Mar 11, 2015

rodderick said:
Felger and Mazz can be assholes about the pettiest of things, but feeling very strongly that the Pats screwed up in not giving Revis that deal isn't absurd in the least to me. If a week ago I told this board Revis could be had for that kind of money, how many posters here would have said "nah, I'll pass"?

I would have said, "The Patriots have had some pretty good success in team-building over the last 15 seasons and if they thought that 40M would hamper their team-building, I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt. Their decisions on letting guys go usually work out OK in the end."

I know I'm pissing up a rope, but I think the radio would be just as enjoyable if, instead of starting from the twin positions of 1)"They don't know what they are doing" and 2) I, a radio talk show host, am better at NFL GMing then they are"; they started from the position of "These guys have a pretty good track record, let's try to figure out at they're up to." You could have just as much ratings manna screaming and dick-swinging, but it would be a fucktillion times less stupid. You'd still have a fair share of "what they're doing is ruining MY life" and "what they're doing is lining their pockets with MY money," but the second approach would also invite some sane conversation.

Phenom · Mar 11, 2015

joe dokes said:
I would have said, "The Patriots have had some pretty good success in team-building over the last 15 seasons and if they thought that 40M would hamper their team-building, I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt. Their decisions on letting guys go usually work out OK in the end."

I know I'm pissing up a rope, but I think the radio would be just as enjoyable if, instead of starting from the twin positions of 1)"They don't know what they are doing" and 2) I, a radio talk show host, am better at NFL GMing then they are"; they started from the position of "These guys have a pretty good track record, let's try to figure out at they're up to." You could have just as much ratings manna screaming and dick-swinging, but it would be a fucktillion times less stupid. You'd still have a fair share of "what they're doing is ruining MY life" and "what they're doing is lining their pockets with MY money," but the second approach would also invite some sane conversation.

That's exactly what Ordway has been doing this morning on D&C. He says the Patriots screwed up with Revis, but also says they would've struggled to find the extra $4 million in guaranteed money they needed to re-sign him. He keeps challenging Callahan & Minihane to come up with ways that the Patriots would be able to clear their cap to pay Revis $33 million in the first two years of the deal.

You don't miss what you have until it's gone?

Hendu for Kutch · Mar 11, 2015

joe dokes said:
I know I'm pissing up a rope, but I think the radio would be just as enjoyable if, instead of starting from the twin positions of 1)"They don't know what they are doing" and 2) I, a radio talk show host, am better at NFL GMing then they are"; they started from the position of "These guys have a pretty good track record, let's try to figure out at they're up to." You could have just as much ratings manna screaming and dick-swinging, but it would be a fucktillion times less stupid. You'd still have a fair share of "what they're doing is ruining MY life" and "what they're doing is lining their pockets with MY money," but the second approach would also invite some sane conversation.

That's it exactly. I haven't listened to this show in a long time for this exact reason. When your question is "What character flaw led them to do this?" vs. "What was the logic behind this decision and what factors played into it?", the conversation is going to suck and you're not going to learn a damn thing.

NortheasternPJ · Mar 11, 2015

MIKE, THEY GAVE $4.5 MILLION DOLLARS GUARANTEED FOR A KICKER! YOU LOST REVIS BY $4.5 MILLION!

TONY,WHO WOULD YOU RATHER HAVE? A KICKER OR THE BEST DEFENSIVE PLAYER IN THE GAME?

southshoresoxfan · Mar 11, 2015

Youre absolutely right PJ

Granite Sox · Mar 11, 2015

They were mostly fine yesterday. They set things up by saying they'd like him to return to the Pats, but they could understand him selecting the Jets because he could be The Man if they ever won, a status he would never achieve with the Patriots (I agree). There was some apparent interest from other teams... Both agreed if he went anywhere besides the Jets or Pats that he'd be a sellout.

Felger also equivocated by saying he doesn't recall ever calling the Patriots/Kraft cheap... it's just that he feels they don't go the extra mile to spend to the top of their operational means. Whatever.

They may piss and moan about the negligible difference in guaranteed money, but I think their "issue" will be more the fact that there is no apparent contingency plan for the secondary, and it will suck again moving forward without Revis and (likely) Browner. No pass rush, Collins taxed chasing after TEs with Browner gone, and a soft zone secondary with an overpaid safety no longer playing to his strengths will be the dominant theme, IMO. They'll also take (deserved) shots at Boyer and his South Dakota School of Mining credentials.

They also said that they were going to be critical, because if they weren't, then there were be no radio show to speak of. So, as mentioned above, we've been warned...

shawnrbu · Mar 11, 2015

"Anyone who gives you the cap as a reason this didn't get done is either a bobo or dumb. It's about the real money. It always has been."

bankshot1 · Mar 11, 2015

I'm a masochist. I had to listen to these clowns rant today.

jsinger121 · Mar 11, 2015

The cap is crap

PeaceSignMoose · Mar 11, 2015

Be forewarned: Kraft is cheap talk on F&M right now.

H78 · Mar 11, 2015

I think Felger's take is fair. He's been consistent about the reluctance of the team wanting to pay guaranteed money up front. And you know Felger still has connections with the team, so I don't doubt his argument.

Harry Hooper · Mar 11, 2015

Does anyone have handy a list of the NFL's top ten or 12 biggest guaranteed contracts that have gone to non-QBs? Narrowed down to players over age 25 or 26 would be even better.

H78 · Mar 11, 2015

Yeah, Mazz is really just riding Felger's coattail today.

bankshot1 · Mar 11, 2015

What the real cost of escrowing $40MM-$35MM=$5MM?

For a multi-billion co. the cost is immaterial.

I don't buy it.

NortheasternPJ · Mar 11, 2015

Why'd they give Brady more money and a higher cap number then?

Does anyone think they really want to be able to cut him?

Felger and Mazz - Creating False Naratives one day at a time

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