Felger and Mazz - Creating False Naratives one day at a time

AimingForYoko

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I'm a casual basketball fan at best, but I'm curious as to why the Celtics and their fans need to be tweaked or mocked at all, considering what's the team's done so far this year and since the Big 3 were put together. It's totally admirable to me what they've done. Why does Felger see the need to piss all over them and mock them and their fans at all?

If he's merely playing the heel at least he should have the common decency to put on a fur hat and shout "AMERIKA! HOOK-THOOEY!" while waving the Russian flag.
It's fun? Also, I go back to him being a bitter Bucks fan. That said, he really does genuinely despise the NBA and I can absolutely see his point there. Refereeing has made this sport unbearable at times, even for die-hards.

I just don't know how some homer comments by team broadcasters equal a "green team". Jack Edwards is one the biggest homers ever and I love him for it. That doesn't mean that the "Black & Golder's" have an agenda or even exist.
 

HomeBrew1901

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I just don't know how some homer comments by team broadcasters equal a "green team". Jack Edwards is one the biggest homers ever and I love him for it. That doesn't mean that the "Black & Golder's" have an agenda or even exist.
I think he genuinely enjoys tweaking Tanguay and Dickerson and making them squirm.

Edit: For a guy that hates the NBA at least he can speak somewhat intelligently about the sport and what he doesn't like about it. Counter that to Mazz that supposedly love baseball, is supposed to be the baseball expert, and can't talk about the sport and admits to not watching the games.
 

AimingForYoko

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I think he genuinely enjoys tweaking Tanguay and Dickerson and making them squirm.
Which is one of the reasons I seriously enjoy Cedric and Felger. Cedric refuses to let him have the last word and enjoys tweaking him right back. And this comes from a Bruins fan.

On that note, I think that Felger and his green team bullshit would not bother me nearly as much if he didn't mention it constantly and if Mazz was allowed to disagree with him from time to time.
 

steveluck7

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I think he genuinely enjoys tweaking Tanguay and Dickerson and making them squirm.

Edit: For a guy that hates the NBA at least he can speak somewhat intelligently about the sport and what he doesn't like about it. Counter that to Mazz that supposedly love baseball, is supposed to be the baseball expert, and can't talk about the sport and admits to not watching the games.
That's exactly how I feel. I really think he enjoys busting Greg and Gary's balls. He'll even take on Cedric Maxwell when they appear together on TV.
 

steveluck7

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On that note, I think that Felger and his green team bullshit would not bother me nearly as much if he didn't mention it constantly and if Mazz was allowed to disagree with him from time to time.
Well, unfortunately for us all, the Celtics are really the only game in town right now so he won't let it go since the only other thing they could talk about would be a mediocre baseball team whose season is less than 1/2 finished.
 

Jackson

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Asshole Ordway actually made me laugh out loud the other day when in a thinly-velied way he referred to Asshole Felger as "Lord Stanley."
 

riboflav

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I don't really listen to him but know of his comments through this board and BSMW. One consistent criticism I've read is that Felger is the real fake tough guy as he has had several opportunities to call out and challenge Celtics players, ownership, and Rivers when he's had them on the air but has not done it. So, whether it's contrived, real, or whatever the reason behind his vitriol why not confront those he slams? I've also read that he thinks Rondo is way overrated by Boston fans.
 

Rocco Graziosa

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Russo, at least, was a genuine fan of the Mets.

I get the sense that Felger is attacking the Celtics and their fans simply to incite them. It's a tried and true radio tactic, but honestly it's also completely transparent and douchey. Again, he should just get on with going full Iron Shiek at this point.

Even a casual follower of the team would have to be impressed at their accomplishments given their age and the injuries this year. To incite their fans over it is the height of douchebaggery, IMO.
Actually Russo is a fan of the Giants. He just happened to despise the Yanquies. Felger is doing to the Celtic fan base exactly what Russo did. Unfortunately there is no Francessa (a die hard Yanqui fan) to balance him out. Mazz just yeses him to death, which sucks.

As a die hard NBA fan when he starts his NBA rants I usually just change the channel. (but I never for one second don't think its genuine.......he's gone to great length to explain where he is coming from as a Buck fan in the 80's) But when he's lambasting that Celtic suckup Gary Tantuay I stick around. Thats good radio IMO.


Good for you - we're all very proud of ya.

Snark aside, you're congealing years worth of Felger/Celtics opinion into that paragraph and it's not entirely accurate. Recently, the "traumatized Bucks fan" lament comes up at the end of a long, sustained discussion of how well the Celtics are playing. Felger hates the Celtics as a fan, and maybe Celtics fans have a gripe there, but Felger has not been "hating on" the Celtics; he's been complimentary, giving credit where it is due and praising their cohesiveness as a team. So if you are only hearing the end of those discussions and adding them to the long history of "bashing", well, you're hearing what you want to hear.

Felger finds the NBA as difficult to discuss as the WWE; in his opinion, the games are fixed. And he has a legitimate point. He also whines way too much about working "in the belly of the beast" and takes great joy in tweaking the "Green Teamers" - something C's fans are taking personally instead of hearing it as the natural frustration of anyone forced to listen to the ball-washing of Dickerson & Tanguay on a regular basis. Hey - if you like Greg & Gary, I imagine that listening to Felger must be torture. For those of us who find Dickerson & Tanguay to be ass licking toadies enjoy the rants about the delusions of the "Green Team".

In conclusion, the Celtics do "play up" injuries, KG's act is kinda silly and the Green Team, collectively, has very thin skin and can be tweaked very easily. And it makes good radio. If you want a host who praises the Celtics for their toughness, thinks KG is inspirational and the Green Team is a bunch of honest truth-tellers, 93.7FM should come in really well on your radio.
Awesome post. Agree 100%
 

redsoxedmunds24

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Did anyone see the miami heat plays they flashed on the screen today? Half caught it where they flashed 2 plays they got in email where they got one guy dribble dribble shoot while guys spread out and then they flashed a similar play where 4 guys gather off to the side in a prayer circle.. I'm hoping to find a screen shot of those plays, had no luck searching the internet for them as of yet
 

Spaulding Smails

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Did anyone see the miami heat plays they flashed on the screen today? Half caught it where they flashed 2 plays they got in email where they got one guy dribble dribble shoot while guys spread out and then they flashed a similar play where 4 guys gather off to the side in a prayer circle.. I'm hoping to find a screen shot of those plays, had no luck searching the internet for them as of yet
Here you go.
 

HomeBrew1901

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Wyc with another great interview last night. Like T&R, Felger and Mazz can have great interviews with the right guests. For the most part T&R need guys that can joke around with them and know how to handle their humor. They made a star out of one of the most irrationally hated guys on the Celtics in Scalabrine and their interviews with Gronk are hit or miss (but that is all on Gronk).

On the other side F&M do a great job with guests like Cam Neely and Wyc Grousbeck who don't mind being asked the tough questions and have no problem not answering the question outright or giving it back and challenging Felger. It's also what made the John Henry interuption so awkward, Henry would get pissy and would try to give it back to F&M but just sounded like he was deflecting the questions as opposed to challenging F&M.

I'm curious as to what EEI thinks of Rivers and Wyc going on F&M though. EEI is the Celtics Flagship and gloss over everything about the Celtics, especially Ordway, so they must be pissed that Wyc went on the show twice.
 

Phenom

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Felger and Mazz will either deliver great shows over these next couple of weeks, or they will be unbearable.

Actually, sometimes I enjoy Felger more when there isn't necessarily a lot to talk about (think back to his great rant about the crazy Jetblue pilot a couple of years ago). I like it when the show goes off the rails from time-to-time.

HOWEVER, there is also the chance that the rest of June and July will be solely dedicated to Beckett trashing. Felger is running the same narrative on this team from last September, and is ignoring things such as the offense's sudden lack of production, and other stories of that ilk. If every show from here until August features 1-2 hours of "Texas tough guy" mocking, then music it is.

We'll see which direction these two go in...
 

Byrdbrain

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They will be unlistenable, I tried today but only made it a few minutes. Tony actually was being reasonable about Beckett but Felger would have none of it.
I'll try again once football gets going but until then I'll only check in occasionally.

Unfortunately I can't listen to "The Big Show" either so its music or news for me.
 

HomeBrew1901

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My commute sucks balls now that I have to drive from Burlington Ma to Salem, NH every day during rush hour so the show has become more background noise than anything. When I do bother to listen I agree it has been the same stale shit day after day after day.

I was sick of this Red Sox team before the season even started so I don't care to listen to endless hours of Beckett Texas Tough Guy or whatever else they decide to harp on so chances are I won't be listening to much sports talk becaue I can't take EEI either.

No surprise that F&M dropped in the rating though. With the Bruins out of the playoffs and their utter disdain for the Celtics and their fans I would have tuned into EEI too if I were a Celtics fan.

I really need to take the time to figure out how to get podcasts on my Ipod and find some decent ones to download.
 

erfus

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No surprise that F&M dropped in the rating though. With the Bruins out of the playoffs and their utter disdain for the Celtics and their fans I would have tuned into EEI too if I were a Celtics fan.
This ratings dip for the Sports Hub is probably a good thing in the long run if it forces them to think about changing up the glaring atrocities on their airwaves (Mazz). Felger needs someone more knowledgeable/interested than Mazz to avoid pointless rhetoric being repeated endlessly. The other shows were down as well and could use improvements here or there to some degree (Wallach on T&R, Gresh, maybe a co-host for DA, etc.). We saw what complacency did to EEI and while they're ratings success is probably more a function of the Celtics and people tiring a bit of the Sports Hub acts, there have been some positive changes over there (commercial breaks shortened, D&C not being allowed to talk as much about politics, and, uh, that's all I can think of since I don't really listen to them anymore).

I wonder how the Baseball Show ratings are these days. I can't imagine anyone enjoying having Mazz shouting at them for an hour about how much stuff sucks.
 

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I wonder how the Baseball Show ratings are these days. I can't imagine anyone enjoying having Mazz shouting at them for an hour about how much stuff sucks.
The Baseball Show is actually pretty good. Mazz doesn't shout at anyone and he's miles better than he is with Felger. I listen to it more than EEI's pregame, Mike Adams suck-athon.
 

AimingForYoko

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This ratings dip for the Sports Hub is probably a good thing in the long run if it forces them to think about changing up the glaring atrocities on their airwaves (Mazz). Felger needs someone more knowledgeable/interested than Mazz to avoid pointless rhetoric being repeated endlessly. The other shows were down as well and could use improvements here or there to some degree (Wallach on T&R, Gresh, maybe a co-host for DA, etc.). We saw what complacency did to EEI and while they're ratings success is probably more a function of the Celtics and people tiring a bit of the Sports Hub acts, there have been some positive changes over there (commercial breaks shortened, D&C not being allowed to talk as much about politics, and, uh, that's all I can think of since I don't really listen to them anymore).

I wonder how the Baseball Show ratings are these days. I can't imagine anyone enjoying having Mazz shouting at them for an hour about how much stuff sucks.
On that note, I know that we bitch about Mazz constantly, but I think that in this situation he comes off as kind of a battered spouse sometimes. Whenever he tries to disagree with a point, Felger just argues him down, mocks him and completely ignores what he's saying, so then Mazz stops disagreeing. And I know people talk about replacing Mazz, but I think that after a while the same thing would just happen to the replacement. If you've ever watched SportsTonight, Felger does the same thing to Tanguay to an extent.

I enjoy Felger's hockey talk but working with the guy day after day must get exhausting as hell.


eta: I actually enjoy the Baseball reporters and wish Mazz would go back on the Baseball Show (he's certainly miles better than Holley)
 

HomeBrew1901

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Funny, I was thinking along those same lines last night Yoko. Mazz really showed what he brings to the table by getting Doc and Wyc on the show and like JMOH said, Mazz is pretty good when he is hosting the baseball show on his own. So it has probably gotten to the point where Mazz is like Fuck it, it's easier to coast and let Felger do all the heavy lifting than to argue with him and I'll do my thing during my show.

I know a lot of folks, myself included, would like to see Bertrand step up full time but really, how often does he stand up to Felger? 10% of the time, maybe 15, more often than not he agreeing with Felger's take and backing him up. Now that is still 10 to 15% more often than Meter stands up to Callahan, but sometimes we talk around here like Beetle is challenging Felger more than he actually does.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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So it has probably gotten to the point where Mazz is like Fuck it, it's easier to coast and let Felger do all the heavy lifting than to argue with him and I'll do my thing during my show.
That's it. Like other sports mavens Felger is a guy who has a very strong opinion. Unlike other people, nine out of ten times, Felger sticks to it. However, he's not completely inflexible and a few times he will change his tune (remember when he wanted to trade the B's number two pick a few years ago for Kovlachuk?) but you really, really have to work hard to do that. What's Mazz' motivation for changing Felger's mind?

No matter what he tells him about Beckett or Garnett or Randy Moss, Felger isn't going to change his tune. And to be truthful, Mazz' job isn't to be any of these guys' cheer leader. To put myself in Mazz' shoes, I don't like Josh Beckett and I wouldn't waste hours of my life trying to change my co-worker's mind on something that I didn't fully believe in. I guess that you can term that as boring radio, but it's better than fake radio. That's the worst. Just two guys fighting about shit that each one doesn't really believe in? No thanks.

Not everyone is Mike and the Mad Dog, that's what made them so great. And what ultimately broke them up.
 

PedroSpecialK

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End of it killed me.

Felger: "Who do you want for Garza?"

Theo: "Felger and a Massarotti to be named later."

Felger: "We'll give you Lackey and Crawford."
 

Castor Troy

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I thought it was a good interview. They asked a few tough questions on the Lackey and Crawford signings. I got a good laugh when Felger ended the interview by offering Theo Lackey and Crawford for Garza.
 

gammoseditor

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On that note, I know that we bitch about Mazz constantly, but I think that in this situation he comes off as kind of a battered spouse sometimes. Whenever he tries to disagree with a point, Felger just argues him down, mocks him and completely ignores what he's saying, so then Mazz stops disagreeing. And I know people talk about replacing Mazz, but I think that after a while the same thing would just happen to the replacement. If you've ever watched SportsTonight, Felger does the same thing to Tanguay to an extent.

I enjoy Felger's hockey talk but working with the guy day after day must get exhausting as hell.


eta: I actually enjoy the Baseball reporters and wish Mazz would go back on the Baseball Show (he's certainly miles better than Holley)
The bolded is why I've never liked Felger. He's a condescending asshole and he's not smart enough to pull it off. You don't have to be brilliant to be a condescending asshole, but you have to be right most of the time. Felger just isn't.
 

SidelineCameras

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The bolded is why I've never liked Felger. He's a condescending asshole and he's not smart enough to pull it off. You don't have to be brilliant to be a condescending asshole, but you have to be right most of the time. Felger just isn't.
It's been said on this board a zillion times, but this is what I respect most about Felger - when he's wrong, he admits it. He was wrong about Marchand and he was wrong about Gronk, they all tease him for it, and he takes his medicine. Other hosts in this town, both on the Hub and at 'EEI, wouldn't welcome the criticism and aren't self-reflective enough to take the ribbing. Instead they would equivocate and come up with some crap and try to walk back their original stances.

I will agree that I've heard the words "Texas Tough Guy" enough times to last a lifetime.
 

ForKeeps

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Theo basically admitted that they signed Lackey because they had to do something big after letting Bay walk (which they felt was the right decision).
 

TheRealness

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I just listened to it online.

I loved that interview. The way Theo gave them the answer on the conflicts (baseball v. business), the push back on leaving them high and dry, how his philosophy still hasn't changed (heavy emphasis on draft and development), and they got him to even show some life in some of his responses.

That interview is one of the reasons will never go back to WEEI. They would have spent ten minutes on the Cubs, and then tossed him softballs and jokes for the last ten. F&M really push questions. When Theo answered the first time on some of the free agent stuff, it was a pretty vanilla reply. But they pushed a little more, and next thing you know he's giving a real intellectual and thoughtful response on the conflicts between baseball ops and business. Great job by them all around.
 

PC Drunken Friar

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It's been said on this board a zillion times, but this is what I respect most about Felger - when he's wrong, he admits it. He was wrong about Marchand and he was wrong about Gronk, they all tease him for it, and he takes his medicine. Other hosts in this town, both on the Hub and at 'EEI, wouldn't welcome the criticism and aren't self-reflective enough to take the ribbing. Instead they would equivocate and come up with some crap and try to walk back their original stances.

I will agree that I've heard the words "Texas Tough Guy" enough times to last a lifetime.
This is used to defend MF a lot, but it is BS...How can he NOT be called out for what he said about Marshmont and Gronk? Why won't he call out Mazz for being wrong about wanting to re-sign Bay?
 

NortheasternPJ

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Theo basically admitted that they signed Lackey because they had to do something big after letting Bay walk (which they felt was the right decision).
I was watching on Comcast for this question. I was 100% sure that Mazz was going to ask about Teixeira instead of Lackey. I was shocked when he didn't.
 

Haunted

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This is used to defend MF a lot, but it is BS...How can he NOT be called out for what he said about Marshmont and Gronk? Why won't he call out Mazz for being wrong about wanting to re-sign Bay?
Well, he could go all Borges and cling to his <incorrect> opinion.
 

SidelineCameras

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Exactly, Ordway is the best comparison here, and not just because he's on the same time slot. Ordway would come up with some exhausting BS about how he was talking about the tight end position and Daniel Graham couldn't catch and not Gronk specifically or whatever. These are obvious examples - so why would no one on EEI ever cop to them in the same situation?
 

Dalton Jones

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I guess that to succeed in radio you just have to be an opinionated asshole like Felger or be original like..... um..... well, some of the bits on T&R. Which are funny. Otherwise, Felger's formula has worked well. Be an opinionated asshole and half the time you'll be right and all the time you'll draw an audience. He was right on Brady over Bledsoe. He was right on..... I'm honestly trying to remember..... Moss, up to a point .... Patriots' drafting philosophy, up to a point..... And he was wrong on the Bruins, wrong on the Celtics, insufferably asinine about Becket even if he is right that Becket's a jerk and who knows if he's right, because I wouldn't jettison Becket for nothing in return, which seems to be Felger's solution to the lack of a winning culture in the Sox clubhouse, as if he'd know a damn thing about what goes on inside there.

And will people please stop blaming Mazz for Felger being a douche. Yes, Tony is obnoxious as hell on F&M and refreshingly different on the 6 to 7 baseball show. I don't like listening to him with Felger, either. But he's not responsible for Felger being the way he is. Felger is responsible for being the way he is. He wants to be that way. He does it deliberately. It's part of his business plan. Be a douche, get people to talk about you.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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I guess that to succeed in radio you just have to be an opinionated asshole like Felger or be original like..... um..... well, some of the bits on T&R. Which are funny. Otherwise, Felger's formula has worked well. Be an opinionated asshole and half the time you'll be right and all the time you'll draw an audience. He was right on Brady over Bledsoe. He was right on..... I'm honestly trying to remember..... Moss, up to a point .... Patriots' drafting philosophy, up to a point..... And he was wrong on the Bruins, wrong on the Celtics, insufferably asinine about Becket even if he is right that Becket's a jerk and who knows if he's right, because I wouldn't jettison Becket for nothing in return, which seems to be Felger's solution to the lack of a winning culture in the Sox clubhouse, as if he'd know a damn thing about what goes on inside there.

And will people please stop blaming Mazz for Felger being a douche. Yes, Tony is obnoxious as hell on F&M and refreshingly different on the 6 to 7 baseball show. I don't like listening to him with Felger, either. But he's not responsible for Felger being the way he is. Felger is responsible for being the way he is. He wants to be that way. He does it deliberately. It's part of his business plan. Be a douche, get people to talk about you.
I want to bronze this post and hang it over the fireplace. Well said.
 

HomeBrew1901

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And will people please stop blaming Mazz for Felger being a douche. Yes, Tony is obnoxious as hell on F&M and refreshingly different on the 6 to 7 baseball show. I don't like listening to him with Felger, either. But he's not responsible for Felger being the way he is. Felger is responsible for being the way he is. He wants to be that way. He does it deliberately. It's part of his business plan. Be a douche, get people to talk about you.
Huh? Felger's been a douche forever and even admits it himself, whoever blamed Mazz for that? Please find me one post in this entire thread that even hints that Mazz is to blame for turning Felger into a douche.

Edit: Sometimes I think you just make shit up because you don't like Felger. There are a bunch of reasons to dislike Felger both personally and about his show, no need to make stuff up.

Edit 2: SJH you live up in Portland do you listen to the show online because I didn't think you could get The Sports Hub that far up north.
 

erfus

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Huh? Felger's been a douche forever and even admits it himself, whoever blamed Mazz for that? Please find me one post in this entire thread that even hints that Mazz is to blame for turning Felger into a douche.
Even if Felger has a strong and polarizing personality, that doesn't mean that his co-host should be an annoying know-nothing with opinions and thoughts shallower than the puddles in the parking lot. The content of the show is so superficial for the Sox and Celtics in comparison to their discussions on hockey and football that it's much less interesting. I think that translates into the recent ratings difficulty. It so happens that Mazz is supposed to be the baseball and basketball guy. We know why that should be the case given his long history of covering the Sox and his ability to get Doc and Wyc onto the show, but Mazz seems happy just riding Felger's wave of rhetoric and not really digging deep into any issue beyond the surface.
 
Even if Felger has a strong and polarizing personality, that doesn't mean that his co-host should be an annoying know-nothing with opinions and thoughts shallower than the puddles in the parking lot. The content of the show is so superficial for the Sox and Celtics in comparison to their discussions on hockey and football that it's much less interesting. I think that translates into the recent ratings difficulty. It so happens that Mazz is supposed to be the baseball and basketball guy. We know why that should be the case given his long history of covering the Sox and his ability to get Doc and Wyc onto the show, but Mazz seems happy just riding Felger's wave of rhetoric and not really digging deep into any issue beyond the surface.
I want to bronze this post and hang it over the fireplace. Well said.
 

Dalton Jones

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Huh? Felger's been a douche forever and even admits it himself, whoever blamed Mazz for that? Please find me one post in this entire thread that even hints that Mazz is to blame for turning Felger into a douche.

Edit: Sometimes I think you just make shit up because you don't like Felger. There are a bunch of reasons to dislike Felger both personally and about his show, no need to make stuff up.

Forgive me but I don't want to expend the energy to go back and find evidence for what you're challenging. I need to re-arrange my sock draw, among other things which take precedence over winning an internet argument. But I have this sense that over the last year or so I've come across several posts where people claim the show would be much better if they got rid of Mazz and replaced him with a co-host who would "challenge" Felger. Beetle (sp?) seems to be the candidate most often mentioned. As if, and perhaps you and I agree here, Felger will be less annoying if Mazz is removed. I don't think so.
 

Darnell's Son

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Forgive me but I don't want to expend the energy to go back and find evidence for what you're challenging. I need to re-arrange my sock draw, among other things which take precedence over winning an internet argument. But I have this sense that over the last year or so I've come across several posts where people claim the show would be much better if they got rid of Mazz and replaced him with a co-host who would "challenge" Felger. Beetle (sp?) seems to be the candidate most often mentioned. As if, and perhaps you and I agree here, Felger will be less annoying if Mazz is removed. I don't think so.
I think that you are misrepresenting what people say about Mazz. I don't think that anyone here thinks that replacing Mazz will change Felger substantially, if at all, but someone with a backbone or a real opinion would create an interesting conversation. The fact that Mazz can be so much more reasonable on the Baseball Reporters, three minutes after Felger and Mazz, speaks volumes. He doesn't have the intestinal fortitude to challenge Felger on his points so he just yeses him to death when Felger is making one of his points again.

If I was program director of 98.5 for a day I would:

Jettison Gresh
Move Zo' in with Felger(Felger needs an athlete to call him out when he calls athletes wusses)
Keep Beatle where he is, because he would become a good moderator for those two
Move Mazz to the midshow and pair him with Gasper
Create a rotation of columnists/beat writers for the Baseball Reporters with DA as the host, which would give it a reason to have that name and get varying opinions on the Red Sox.

Edit: English
 

SidelineCameras

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But then we wouldn't hear Gresh say, "We played football" anymore.

Seriously though, I love all of your ideas. Zolak specifically is much better than I thought he would be, and I think he and Felger would be provide a nice balance for each other. Zolak's enthusiasm would balance Felger's douche/sour puss act, and Felger could help temper some of Zolak's screaming. I don't hate Mazz but I generally agree with people here that he doesn't add much to the afternoon such as things are.
 

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12,955
Boston, MA
It really is remarkable. I was listening on my ride home last night and he had Eckersley call in and the interview was grade-A stuff. Mazz led into the interview with his typical negativity, and even Eck himself admitted to being a pretty negative guy overall and revealed that he finds this current Red Sox iteration completely unlikable, but that if you take a step back and look at the pieces, the team isn't doing that poorly (starting pitching can go up against anyone in the East, Bobby has done a great job with the pen, the offense has been solid considering the injuries, etc) and Mazz challenged Eck on some of the points, but ultimately agreed that things aren't as bad as many are making them out to be. He never would have said something like that with Felger sitting next to him.