Feats of Mookie - 2024 Angst & Awe

zenax

zenax

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Philip Jeff Frye said:
I thought the whole premise was that he moved the best player in baseball history in order to finance No No Nanette.
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Frazee did not sell the Red Sox until August 1, 1923, and he made further trades with the Yankees after selling Ruth.
No, No, Nanette didn't make Broadway until 1925 but was one of the most successful shows of the era.

An article people really should read, which discusses the poor relationship between Frazee and league president, Ban Johnson, WW 1, the collapse of the Red Sox in 1919 (of which Ruth had a part) was published by SABR on Frazee
 
Tokyo Sox

Tokyo Sox

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zenax said:
Frazee did not sell the Red Sox until August 1, 1923, and he made further trades with the Yankees after selling Ruth.
No, No, Nanette didn't make Broadway until 1925 but was one of the most successful shows of the era.

An article people really should read, which discusses the poor relationship between Frazee and league president, Ban Johnson, WW 1, the collapse of the Red Sox in 1919 (of which Ruth had a part) was published by SABR on Frazee
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Thanks, this was an interesting and informative read.
 
Dr Strangeglove

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zenax said:
Frazee did not sell the Red Sox until August 1, 1923, and he made further trades with the Yankees after selling Ruth.
No, No, Nanette didn't make Broadway until 1925 but was one of the most successful shows of the era.

An article people really should read, which discusses the poor relationship between Frazee and league president, Ban Johnson, WW 1, the collapse of the Red Sox in 1919 (of which Ruth had a part) was published by SABR on Frazee
Click to expand...
zenax said:
An article people really should read, which discusses the poor relationship between Frazee and league president, Ban Johnson, WW 1, the collapse of the Red Sox in 1919 (of which Ruth had a part) was published by SABR on Frazee
Click to expand...
This was a fascinating, informative article. Historical context is always important. The Sox were cursed, but it was actually the Curse of Tom Yawkey. Thank you for posting the link.
 
LogansDad

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zenax said:
Frazee did not sell the Red Sox until August 1, 1923, and he made further trades with the Yankees after selling Ruth.
No, No, Nanette didn't make Broadway until 1925 but was one of the most successful shows of the era.

An article people really should read, which discusses the poor relationship between Frazee and league president, Ban Johnson, WW 1, the collapse of the Red Sox in 1919 (of which Ruth had a part) was published by SABR on Frazee
Click to expand...
Thanks for posting this. What a great read.
 
SirPsychoSquints

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Smiling Joe Hesketh

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SirPsychoSquints

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CarolinaBeerGuy said:
I wonder if the Dodgers will consider moving Mookie back to right field. He's grading out as the worst shortstop in the majors right now in Outs Above Average.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/outs_above_average?type=Fielder&startYear=2024&endYear=2024&split=yes&team=&range=year&min=q&pos=6&roles=&viz=hide
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DRS has him at 1 run above average. I know OAA is considered far superior to DRS in assessing outfielders, but I think DRS still is considered as good or better for infielders?
 
Max Power

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Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
As long as he OPS+ 159 like he's doing now, and as long as they're winning, I doubt they'll move him anywhere.
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Unless the extra wear and tear from playing the infield starts suppressing the batting value. He started out off the charts great, but then went into a month and a half long slump. He's been better in the last week. He can probably finish off the year out there, but it would be in everyone's best interest to get him back in the outfield next season.
 
CarolinaBeerGuy

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SirPsychoSquints

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CarolinaBeerGuy said:
Thank you both for that. I'm not sure if DRS is better than OAA for shortstops, but that's a HUGE difference. I haven't watched enough Dodgers games to know what the eye test says.
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https://stathead.com/tiny/djoFX

This is where I was looking. It includes the full season fielding runs number for anyone who has any games at SS. So it's pretty misleading for IKF and Ketel Marte, so you should just use the list @simplicio posted.

OAA broadly agrees on the three DRS leaders, Arcia, Tovar, & Henderson, but puts Witt as the leader with +10 runs, where DRS only has him at +2. Adames is +8 for OAA, -1 for DRS. EDLC is +8 for OAA, -2 for DRS. Lindor is +8 for OAA, -2 for DRS. Winn is -4 for OAA, +6 for DRS. Neto is -5 for OAA, +5 for DRS.

So there's a lot of places these two measures disagree by as much or more than the 8 runs for Mookie.
 
jon abbey

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simplicio said:
Anyone actually watching Mookie regularly? What does the eye test say?
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If I had to guess how good he was defensively at SS based on the Yankee series last weekend, I'd say a bit below average. He made most of the plays but if he played SS for my team, I'd be nervous every time the ball went in his direction.
 
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GrandSlamPozo

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SirPsychoSquints said:
DRS has him at 1 run above average. I know OAA is considered far superior to DRS in assessing outfielders, but I think DRS still is considered as good or better for infielders?
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Is it? There's a reddit thread from last July with some damning examples of OAA completely flubbing plays made/not made by outfielders. As an example, it considers this play to be the most difficult catch of Mookie's career, with an out probability of 5%. Some of the issues raised are that it doesn't take the wall into consideration when determining catch probability, and it always assigns the responsibility of each play to a single fielder, even if that fielder was called off by somebody else.
 
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CarolinaBeerGuy

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GrandSlamPozo said:
Is it? There's a reddit thread from last July with some damning examples of OAA completely flubbing plays made/not made by outfielders. As an example, it considers this play to be the most difficult catch of Mookie's career, with an out probability of 5%. Some of the issues raised are that it doesn't take the wall into consideration when determining catch probability, and it always assigns the responsibility of each play to a single fielder, even if that fielder was called off by somebody else.
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If that’s the most difficult catch of his career, this system is incredibly flawed. I wonder how that even happened and why they didn’t bother correcting the probability?
 
SirPsychoSquints

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For anyone looking for anything to criticize, I ran this statcast seach and found the following bunch of plays where another SS might have done something better.

Ezequiel Tovar singles on a ground ball to center fielder Andy Pages. Charlie Blackmon to 2nd.

Kevin Newman reaches on a throwing error by shortstop Mookie Betts.

Elly De La Cruz singles on a ground ball to shortstop Mookie Betts. Santiago Espinal scores. Stuart Fairchild to 3rd. Will Benson to 2nd.

Vidal Bruján singles on a sharp ground ball to shortstop Mookie Betts.

Orlando Arcia singles on a ground ball to left fielder Chris Taylor.

Orlando Arcia singles on a ground ball to center fielder James Outman. Michael Harris II to 2nd.

Francisco Lindor singles on a sharp ground ball to left fielder Teoscar Hernández.

Francisco Lindor singles on a ground ball to left fielder Teoscar Hernández. Starling Marte scores.

Ha-Seong Kim grounds into a force out, second baseman Gavin Lux to shortstop Mookie Betts. Manny Machado to 3rd. Jurickson Profar out at 2nd. Ha-Seong Kim to 1st.

Dansby Swanson singles on a ground ball to shortstop Mookie Betts.
 
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