Farrell hints at potential roster shake up
- Thread starter soxhop411
- Start date
Please be true. I cannot handle watching another Allen Craig at-bat.soxhop411 said:
Nap will turn it around. I'd pay just to watch JBJ play defense. Nava is at least a player with some track record with the Sox.
Craig is just infuriating to watch play.
Buzzkill Pauley said:
He couldn't possibly have a bunch of injuries and decide it's time to say "Fuck it?" He can't hit is 30 and hang 'em up?
The guy is almost 40. We can't approach any season with the assumption that he'll be there for it.
grimshaw said:
It's asking an awful lot to ask Hanley to switch from the OF to 1B without even a spring training to get used to it.
And there's no way in hell you use your best fielder in left.
I understand your point, but you're not addressing my point, that right now, with the season in danger of tanking, next year is not as important. The Sox can't afford another 5th place finish and have to try and stabilize the situation. Overall it's a swap of JBJ for Jimenez. They can revisit the issue of JBJ's 2016 role in six weeks or so.Rasputin said:
If Bradley is really being promoted, the most likely case is a platoon with Victorino. I could certainly see swapping Sandoval to 1B and Ramirez (or Holt) to 3B.
mauidano said:
Holt will be back in Toronto for tomorrow's game. He wasn't even placed on the bereavement list. JBJ's callup had everything to do with Craig, and nothing to do with Holt. And if they just want JBJ until Victorino gets back, they would have waited on Craig's demotion for just a couple of days. it sounds to me as if Nava is gone when Vic comes back.
Reaching any conclusions right now makes no sense. Before they eat a bunch of money, it would be wise to let him get consistent at bats for a couple of months in AAA and determine then if he is done or not.Rudy Pemberton said:
As bad a Napoli's hitting has been--and it's been really bad--I have a hard time seeing him get benched or moved. They still have a staff of mostly ground ball pitchers, and their best infield defense, by far, is with him at first.
I agree that it's difficult to see him being benched, but if you're not scoring any runs you won't win any games, no matter how good your pitching and defense are.
WenZink said:
When the current season is in danger of tanking, next year becomes more important, not less.
The goal is to win the world series as many times as possible before you die. It's not to win any given season. In any given moment you have to balance the next/current season against those that come after. If you're losing enough that the current season is approaching tankage, you have, by definition, a lower chance of doing awesome things than before the season started. That means that future seasons are slightly more important than they were before.
The difference between Jackie Bradley as 4th outfielder and whoever would be there in his place is going to be pretty small. The difference between going into the off season confident that Bradley can be a 2016 starter and going into the off season without that confidence is pretty large.
I certainly wouldn't put JBJ in left, but with both him and Shane up, he'll (Shane) probably get the veteran treatment until they put him out of his misery. If they are going to flat out suck, pitching wise, run prevention is the next best thing.Rasputin said:
It's pretty amazing that, given the early struggles, 95% of the suggestions here are for positional changes.
Moving Hanley to first? Sandoval to first? What? Why? The positional issues are in right field and catcher. The other positions have players that should improve and do well. You get rid of Craig and call up JBJ. When Victorino is ready you DFA Nava and platoon JBJ/Vic in right field. Holt, Rusney, and Brentz give plenty of depth. I'm not worried about getting rid of both Nava and Craig.
Catcher is what it is. You're pretty much dependent on a young talent.
Now let's get to the real issue. Pitching... some potential moves
Send down Layne | Move Masterson to the pen | Call up Rodriguez
DFA Ross | Move Miley to the pen | Call up Johnson
Send down Joe Kelly | Call up Johnson/Rodriguez/Wright
Send down Barnes | Send Kelly to the Pen | Call up Johnson
Re hauling the pitching staff to get the most out of what they have in the majors and AAA should be the priority.
Moving Hanley to first? Sandoval to first? What? Why? The positional issues are in right field and catcher. The other positions have players that should improve and do well. You get rid of Craig and call up JBJ. When Victorino is ready you DFA Nava and platoon JBJ/Vic in right field. Holt, Rusney, and Brentz give plenty of depth. I'm not worried about getting rid of both Nava and Craig.
Catcher is what it is. You're pretty much dependent on a young talent.
Now let's get to the real issue. Pitching... some potential moves
Send down Layne | Move Masterson to the pen | Call up Rodriguez
DFA Ross | Move Miley to the pen | Call up Johnson
Send down Joe Kelly | Call up Johnson/Rodriguez/Wright
Send down Barnes | Send Kelly to the Pen | Call up Johnson
Re hauling the pitching staff to get the most out of what they have in the majors and AAA should be the priority.
And then Within a month they'll admit the obvious, that Victorino is as cooked as Craig (if he even makes it a month without breaking down yet again).WenZink said:
This team is very poorly managed right now. They're making decisions based on prayers instead of on evidence. Craig should not have gotten a single at bat against a righty over Nava or Holt, Mujica and Breslow shoulld not have kept Barnes And Wright in the minors, etc.
This so f'ing sucks again. Ridiculously frustrating.
SouthernBoSox said:
I'm not sure many are in a position to evaluate Rodriguez or Johnson in terms of how close they are to being significant upgrades to the rotation. I have to leave it up to Ben/Farrell and the new guy, Willis. We have more familiarity with Wright, but projecting the success of a AAA knuckleball pitcher is not something I'd bet on.
Rodriguez gave up 5 runs in 5 innings in his last start. He's extremely unlikely to be an upgrade. He'd just be a shiny new object.Rasputin said:
Agreed. Additionally, I'll be surprised if there's a big shakeup in the pitching before Willis has been on board for a couple weeks.
Bradley is pulled out of the lineup and everyone thinks its a call-up, but when I hear a guy is being pulled I think trade - even if its Pawtucket. What could Bradley fetch? He's certainly blocked. Package Bradley and Craig and eat a lot of the contract and do you get anything? Just spitballin.
circus catch said:
We think call up because there's every indication that Craig is going down, and that leaves the team down an outfielder until Vic comes back Monday. JBJ is precisely the guy they would bring up for a day.
The Red Sox should strive to improve their defense, which, in turn, would improve their pitching staff. Calling up Bradley and playing him fullt-time in CF makes perfect sense. Move Mookie Betts to RF and send down Craig.
I've thought about the idea of moving Hanley to 1B to improve the OF defense even more, but then we rob Peter to pay Paul--the Red Sox infield defense would suffer. Napoli is a better defensive 1b than the inexperienced Hanley.
I've thought about the idea of moving Hanley to 1B to improve the OF defense even more, but then we rob Peter to pay Paul--the Red Sox infield defense would suffer. Napoli is a better defensive 1b than the inexperienced Hanley.
I want to leave the starters in Pawtucket as long as possible. Bringing them up has been detrimental to the careers and trade values of these 'assets' under this regime.
You're assuming that: 1) Keeping JBJ at AAA means he'll develop into a full time outfielder and 2) He won't get sufficient playing time over the next 6-8 weeks.E5 Yaz said:
Those two facts may or may not be true. What I do know is that JBJ definitely will add value as a late inning defensive replacement for Ramirez. I also know that as one of 5 OF on the roster, where 3 of them (Hanley/Castillo/Victorino) have had problems staying on the field, that JBJ should have the opportunity for playing time. I also know that the addition of JBJ is an upgrad over having Luis Jimenez on the roster.
So it's 3 sure things vs two ifs. And you always have the option of switching back if Craig finds his stroke over the next few weeks and JBJ reverts back to his bad habits of 2014.
snowmanny said:
Because the 2015 season is somehow more important than the 2016 season now?
Plympton91 said:
Was that today? Because if not, it ballooned his ERA all the way up to 2.73. The guy has been brilliant since coming over. If they're going to make moves with the pitching staff, he's the obvious guy to call up.
I don't know what to do. Most of the roster well below career norms and it would be extremely unlikely for this to continue.
Masterson and Kelly worry me the most. Kelly was looked at as bullpen guy most of his career due to a lack of a serviceable 3rd pitch and his command issues. Masterson doesn't have the velocity anymore to fool the lineup more than a couple times, max, and has the same aforementioned control problems that stem from his side-armed delivery. If he can't regain his velocity in the BP, he's truly a ROOGY at best.
Porcello will be fine, I think Miley will settle down as well.
Peripherally Buchholz is an enigma, he's like an injury prone version Javier Vazquez, who managed to consistently under-perform due to his mental fragility. He might rebound, might suck.
They could call up somebody, but there's likely going to be growing pains that are most likely to produce the same lackluster results we're seeing right now.
What to do about the offense? Wait and see, besides getting rid of the trash. (Craig, Victorino, Nava?) Castillo should provide a boost when he's going at full speed, and Swihart is likely to make an adjustment going forward.
Expectations have to be realistic. On paper, most saw this team as having a mediocre rotation and a good offense; maybe a shot of 90+ wins if everything banked right. Obviously this isn't the case and It's really not worth tampering with the development of minor leaguers in order to try to patch together a sinking ship. You can hope that things settle down and they play .500+ ball from here on out, but the talent level just doesn't look good enough to compete with the rest of the division & AL.
Masterson and Kelly worry me the most. Kelly was looked at as bullpen guy most of his career due to a lack of a serviceable 3rd pitch and his command issues. Masterson doesn't have the velocity anymore to fool the lineup more than a couple times, max, and has the same aforementioned control problems that stem from his side-armed delivery. If he can't regain his velocity in the BP, he's truly a ROOGY at best.
Porcello will be fine, I think Miley will settle down as well.
Peripherally Buchholz is an enigma, he's like an injury prone version Javier Vazquez, who managed to consistently under-perform due to his mental fragility. He might rebound, might suck.
They could call up somebody, but there's likely going to be growing pains that are most likely to produce the same lackluster results we're seeing right now.
What to do about the offense? Wait and see, besides getting rid of the trash. (Craig, Victorino, Nava?) Castillo should provide a boost when he's going at full speed, and Swihart is likely to make an adjustment going forward.
Expectations have to be realistic. On paper, most saw this team as having a mediocre rotation and a good offense; maybe a shot of 90+ wins if everything banked right. Obviously this isn't the case and It's really not worth tampering with the development of minor leaguers in order to try to patch together a sinking ship. You can hope that things settle down and they play .500+ ball from here on out, but the talent level just doesn't look good enough to compete with the rest of the division & AL.
I would hold off on jettisoning pitchers until Willis has had time to at least try to get them turned around. It's not apparent that there's any suitable replacement for any of these guys.
I get it that Bradley is the obvious replacement for Craig, but do you have to pull him from the lineup to do that? Maybe to catch a flight I guess.
topps148 said:
You owe it to everyone to let Wills look at what he's got to work with, at least a turn or two through the rotation. He mentioned that he'll try and go through the numbers and converse with Farrell on the plane ride to Oakland. But the proverbial short leash is being waved in the air.Marbleheader said:
WenZink said:
No, he's assuming that it's much more likely that JBJ will develop into a full time outfielder at AAA. And if he's the 4th outfielder, he is, by definition, not getting sufficient playing time.
WenZink said:
Do you really think there's a chance that Farrell will use an outfield rotation? And if he did, wouldn't it be Hanley/Betts/Castillo/Victorino once Castillo is ready and until Vic is declared dead?
I guess I'm unclear as to who would be taking playing time away from JBJ at this moment. Vic? Nava? Holt? Craig? Looks to me like Bradley is the starting RF until further notice.
Vic hasn't done anything in well over a calendar year to justify this, and there's no real reason to keep hoping that 2013 Shane will return since he's gone after the season anyway. If JBJ plays well, I think the team will find ABs for him.MakMan44 said:
Danny_Darwin said:
I'm guessing that when Victorino comes back, they keep JBJ and move Nava. So for, at least the road trip, you go with a platoon of JBJ/Victorino, with JBJ getting the bulk of the starts vs RHP, and Victorino being treated as a RH hitter, regardless of his status as a Switch Hitting is now. I also assume that Castillo will be called up by the end of the month,and that is when the Sox have to consider keeping JBJ as 4th OF or sending him back to AAA. A lot will depend upon his hitting in the next 10-20 games, as well as the durability of Hanley/Castillo/Victorino.
They are 26th so far in ballpark adjusted defensive efficiency http://www.baseballprospectus.com/sortable/index.php?cid=1821981
They were 24th last year too. If the defense isn't top notch with all these supposed ground ball guys, it's just going to be ugly.
They are also quite a ways higher in k rate than was projected, so if/when that stabilizes, the defense is going to be relied on even more. Getting the job done in the field needs to be fixed asap. I hope that's part of the plan when it comes to a roster shake up.
They were 24th last year too. If the defense isn't top notch with all these supposed ground ball guys, it's just going to be ugly.
They are also quite a ways higher in k rate than was projected, so if/when that stabilizes, the defense is going to be relied on even more. Getting the job done in the field needs to be fixed asap. I hope that's part of the plan when it comes to a roster shake up.
Hasn't Shane been a complete black hole at the plate (even at AA)? I'd much rather have JBJ in RF right now than him. As for finding playing time for Holt, I'm at a loss unless we use him as "super utility give somebody a rest guy" which could be the case. Everyone, even Pedey, gets a day off every week or so and Holt fills in. He NEEDS regular ABs. That leaves Nava on the bench as the 4th OF if Holt is filling in in the IF. But if Nava is that guy, what happens with Vic? Ugh. Ideally, we'd move forward with Hanley, Betts, and JBJ until Rusney is absolutely forcing the issue. Craig and Victorino shouldn't be causing a roster crunch right now. If you trade Nava (likely worth more than Vic or Craig right now, but not by much), then you keep one of those two on the bench.
Yes, I'm assuming Nap will bounce back and we're not moving Hanley to 1B or Panda to 1B/Hanley to 3B.
Those advocating for getting rid of Ross and Breslow...I'm in complete agreement with you.
Yes, I'm assuming Nap will bounce back and we're not moving Hanley to 1B or Panda to 1B/Hanley to 3B.
Those advocating for getting rid of Ross and Breslow...I'm in complete agreement with you.
I know Tito had the reputation for playing vets over kids, but that wasn't really justified (except in the case of playing Mueller over Youkilis in 05). Do we have a good sense of what Farrell is actually going to do beyond some boilerplate quotes in ST?
I was not a fan of the Lackey deal last season. One of my best friends is a Cards fan and he thought Craig was done, and the way he described his emotions watching Kelly pitch was way too reminiscent of what I used to go through whenever Dice-K took the mound.
We should call Kelly "2004" and Craig "2013" because they’re the Cards' revenge for the past two pastings they took from the Sox in the World Series.
Hopefully Willis can salvage Kelly, but I think only Jesus could save Craig at this point.
We should call Kelly "2004" and Craig "2013" because they’re the Cards' revenge for the past two pastings they took from the Sox in the World Series.
Hopefully Willis can salvage Kelly, but I think only Jesus could save Craig at this point.