Eduardo Rodriguez called up

[Rovin Romine]

Paxton Crawford aka the next Greg Maddux gets zero love?

Eduardo looked really good and hit his spots. Slider looked hittible at times but overall an excellent performance. Question is who goes when Masterson is back? Masterson Wright or Kelly? Pick one and let one go to the pen and one go to AAA. My guess is Masterson gets his spot back, Wright goes to the pen and Kelly works out some issues in AAA.

 
Nice call with Paxton.  
 
More seriously.  We are going to have to juggle a lot of unknowns.  In terms of effectiveness, Masterson's the wild card.  Rotation or Bullpen?  The path isn't clear.  Either way, Kelly has more upside than Masterson, and we control him longer.  So Kelly should have preference in terms of a long-term plan.  (Just so long as we don't discourage future FAs by how we handle Masterson.)  
 
My guess would be that Kelley stays for 2-3 more starts, then is bullpenned to low leverage spots.  Masterson goes back to the rotation, since he could be a passible starter and is not an obvious bullpen upgrade.  Eduardo sticks around as insurance.  Wright gets demoted, then called up as needed.  Or Eduardo/Wright are flipped in that role.  I'd guess it would depend on each one's makeup - would one be particularly damaged by bobbling up and down, or is one especially suited to it?
 
I'd be hesitant to cut Masterson or send Kelly to AAA as Eduardo may not be up for a full season of work anyway.  If Wright were rubber armed, I'd keep him as starter-implosion insurance.  
 
It may be that the long man in the pen ought to be one of our "legitimate" starters who would be ready to cover for the more problematic starters and perhaps take a turn to extend the rotation. 

 

[jasail]

Why option Kelly to Paw Sox?  Use him in long relief, as he was sometimes used in St. Louis.  Option one of the multitude of clowns already in the Sox bull pen to Rhode Island.

 
I think the point has been made ad nauseum in this thread and in the Joe Kelly thread. The purpose of optioning him to AAA is two-fold. 1) It provides Kelly with the best opportunity to improve, as he can be given reliable innings to work on command and control and how to pitch, which are things that may improve by throwing more consistent innings. 2) It does not hurt the 2015 25-man roster because the Sox already have two good long relief options in Barnes and Wright and considering Kelly's lack of command and control, he may not be a guy that is a good bullpen fit. 
 
So it may be in both the best short-term and long-term interest of the club to option Kelly to AAA to spend the remainder of the season (at least until 9/1 or injury demands) working on developing consistency in a low-pressure environment. If he succeeds, the Sox have a guy with huge potential in their rotation in 2016 and are no worse for the wear this year. If he fails, then they can consider moving him to the bullpen (or moving him in general) in 2016. This seems to provide the greatest benefit to both the player and the club, whereas I'm not sure moving him to the bullpen provides much benefit to either. 
 
So to move the conversation forward, it may be worthwhile to debate the legitimacy of these points and their counterpoints instead of just reiterating a question that's been answered either directly or indirectly in multiple posts across multiple threads.

 

[mt8thsw9th]

 
He's no Juan Pena.

 
Or Paun Jena.

 

[joe dokes]

 
 
I see your Robinson Checo and raise you the first two starts of Vaughn Eshelman: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?id=eshelva01&t=p&year=1995

 
Before there was Vaughn Eshelman, there was Billy Rohr.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/rohrbi01.shtml
 
and his debut:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/NYA/NYA196704140.shtml

 

[timlinin8th]

Paxton Crawford aka the next Greg Maddux gets zero love?

Eduardo looked really good and hit his spots. Slider looked hittible at times but overall an excellent performance. Question is who goes when Masterson is back? Masterson Wright or Kelly? Pick one and let one go to the pen and one go to AAA. My guess is Masterson gets his spot back, Wright goes to the pen and Kelly works out some issues in AAA.

To get this thread back on EdRod and off Joe Kelly, my only concern with last night was how heavily Rodriguez relied on the fastball... towards the end of his outing NESN flashed a graphic that 80+% of his pitches were the fastball. I would think that any decisions that would be made regarding him staying for good or how the rest of the staff slots in should be contingent on a second start at least - if a team is expecting him and is able to prep, how will that translate when they can sit fastball all night long?

Hopefully he (or whoever is calling pitches) can adjust accordingly.

 

[SouthernBoSox]

To get this thread back on EdRod and off Joe Kelly, my only concern with last night was how heavily Rodriguez relied on the fastball... towards the end of his outing NESN flashed a graphic that 80+% of his pitches were the fastball. I would think that any decisions that would be made regarding him staying for good or how the rest of the staff slots in should be contingent on a second start at least - if a team is expecting him and is able to prep, how will that translate when they can sit fastball all night long?

Hopefully he (or whoever is calling pitches) can adjust accordingly.

I'm sure there is some truth to this.  But man is it refreshing to see a kid who can command a fastball and makes hitters hit it before getting too cute.

 

[Al Zarilla]

When are our clowns powers that be making a decision on where Eduardo is pitching his next game? We've got a nice bright spot in a to-date lackluster season, so don't let it go dim on us.

 

[grimshaw]

To get this thread back on EdRod and off Joe Kelly, my only concern with last night was how heavily Rodriguez relied on the fastball... towards the end of his outing NESN flashed a graphic that 80+% of his pitches were the fastball. I would think that any decisions that would be made regarding him staying for good or how the rest of the staff slots in should be contingent on a second start at least - if a team is expecting him and is able to prep, how will that translate when they can sit fastball all night long?

Hopefully he (or whoever is calling pitches) can adjust accordingly.

This may be more a product of Willis' approach of going with what is working, rather than concentrating so much on trying to execute "the book" for each batter.  There wasn't a ton of prep time available.

 

[Detts]

To get this thread back on EdRod and off Joe Kelly, my only concern with last night was how heavily Rodriguez relied on the fastball... towards the end of his outing NESN flashed a graphic that 80+% of his pitches were the fastball. I would think that any decisions that would be made regarding him staying for good or how the rest of the staff slots in should be contingent on a second start at least - if a team is expecting him and is able to prep, how will that translate when they can sit fastball all night long?

Hopefully he (or whoever is calling pitches) can adjust accordingly.

 
When you have a plus fastball that you can spot, you throw a plus fastball.

 

[timlinin8th]

I'm sure there is some truth to this.  But man is it refreshing to see a kid who can command a fastball and makes hitters hit it before getting too cute.

Absolutely, and dont get me wrong, his start had me smiling wide. Joe Kelly would kill to be locating the fastball like Rodriguez last night. I guess I'm just cautioning that making the decision to pencil Rodriguez in the rotation for the rest of the season might be a little premature.

I'm a buzzkill.

 

[Sprowl]

To get this thread back on EdRod and off Joe Kelly, my only concern with last night was how heavily Rodriguez relied on the fastball... towards the end of his outing NESN flashed a graphic that 80+% of his pitches were the fastball. I would think that any decisions that would be made regarding him staying for good or how the rest of the staff slots in should be contingent on a second start at least - if a team is expecting him and is able to prep, how will that translate when they can sit fastball all night long?

Hopefully he (or whoever is calling pitches) can adjust accordingly.

 
NESN jumped the gun in terms of pitch identification, and misclassified some of Rodriguez' changeups as fastballs. Of 105 pitches, only 72 were fastballs:
 

 
To be sure, 72 out of 105 suggests a fastball-dominant pitcher, but when he can consistently throw 95 mph fastballs at the knees, well, he should.

 

[DJnVa]

When are our clowns powers that be making a decision on where Eduardo is pitching his next game? We've got a nice bright spot in a to-date lackluster season, so don't let it go dim on us.

 
Because they probably didn't quite expect it to go that well, I'm sure there are some internal discussions happening. The game ended around 12 hours ago, it's not like this has been dragging on.
 

 

[FanSinceBoggs]

I would use a 6-man rotation for now, with the hope that the extra day of rest will get our 80-million dollar ace back on track. 
 
Wright gives the Red Sox a lot of flexibility.  In actuality, I would use a 5 and 1/2-man rotation.  I would use Wright for long relief if needed and then count his long relief appearance as a start.  If he isn't needed for long relief, I would use Wright as a starter.  Overall, the rotation would alternate between a 5-man and 6-man.
 
I would go back to a 5-man rotation if I decide to demote Kelly in a week or two.  As far as Masterson goes, I don't think he is in the picture anymore.  He will have to make it as a RP; I wouldn't be surprised to see him deactivated at some point. 
 
It must suck to be an Orioles fan watching Rodriquez, who has top-of-the rotation potential, pitch for the Red Sox and then seeing A.Miller dominate for the Yankees.  Now I know why the Orioles haven't won a World Series since Cal Ripken's sophomore year.

 

[nighthob]

NESN jumped the gun in terms of pitch identification, and misclassified some of Rodriguez' changeups as fastballs. Of 105 pitches, only 72 were fastballs

Well, you can see why where his changeup travels the same speed as Brian Johnson's fastball.
 

To be sure, 72 out of 105 suggests a fastball-dominant pitcher, but when he can consistently throw 95 mph fastballs at the knees, well, he should.

I might be hesitant to buy heavy on his post 30 years given the spread between the fastball and changeup, but as long as he can pound the bottom of the strikezone with that fastball he's going to be effective.

 

[Harry Hooper]

Toss fellow Sox southpaw Kevin Morton's fine debut (vs. the Tigers I believe) onto the buzzkill pile.
 
Still, very nice work last night by ER, and I am certainly looking forward to seeing more from him.

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

 
Because they probably didn't quite expect it to go that well, I'm sure there are some internal discussions happening. The game ended around 12 hours ago, it's not like this has been dragging on.
 

They also might want to wait and see how Wright does tonight.

 

[nighthob]

Toss fellow Sox southpaw Kevin Morton's fine debut (vs. the Tigers I believe) onto the buzzkill pile.

The bigger buzzkill is that they didn't trade him for Larry Anderson.

 

[nvalvo]

I might be hesitant to buy heavy on his post 30 years given the spread between the fastball and changeup, but as long as he can pound the bottom of the strikezone with that fastball he's going to be effective.

 
That lack of spread is reportedly why the Orioles gave up on him. 

 

[Captaincoop]

Toss fellow Sox southpaw Kevin Morton's fine debut (vs. the Tigers I believe) onto the buzzkill pile.
 
Still, very nice work last night by ER, and I am certainly looking forward to seeing more from him.

 
Morton was the one that jumped to mind for me last night.  Hopefully this one develops differently.
 
Morton, IIRC, relied heavily on a huge curveball, and didn't have the velo or the diverse arsenal of pitches that Rodriguez appears to have.

 

[Merkle's Boner]

 
Morton was the one that jumped to mind for me last night.  Hopefully this one develops differently.
 
Morton, IIRC, relied heavily on a huge curveball, and didn't have the velo or the diverse arsenal of pitches that Rodriguez appears to have.

Morton, one of two of Norwalk CT's finest to make their debut with the Sox in the 90s. The other one had a slightly better career.

 

[nighthob]

That lack of spread is reportedly why the Orioles gave up on him.

Yeah, pitchers can clearly be effective so long as there's some difference and the changeup moves well enough (e.g. Josh Beckett). But once they lose the fastball the bottom drops out quickly (e.g. Josh Beckett). So Boston's getting the bargain here since they can probably hold on to him for the entirety of the effective years.

 

[Buster Olney the Lonely]

Morton, one of two of Norwalk CT's finest to make their debut with the Sox in the 90s. The other one had a slightly better career.

 
And both played at Seton Hall. 
Morton's debut was pretty great. Nine innings pitched, nine strikeouts, one walk. 
I am sort of surprised that he only pitched one season (1991) in the majors. He wasn't great but his ERA+ was 94. Never even got the chance to really pitch out of the bullpen though he had the reverse platoon thing going (.838 OPS against lefties, .800 against righties). 

 

[StuckOnYouk]

As Merloni mentioned this AM how great would it have been to see Andrew Miller come out of the pen last night instead of Tommy Layne to finish out Rodriguez's start. THAT would have made O's fans get even more nuts. 
 
I was hoping all offseason we would overpay for Miller, but whatever. 4/40 looks like a much better overpay than Panda's deal.

 

[joyofsox]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7ZwNTbIqCk

 

[TheoShmeo]

As Merloni mentioned this AM how great would it have been to see Andrew Miller come out of the pen last night instead of Tommy Layne to finish out Rodriguez's start. THAT would have made O's fans get even more nuts. 
 
I was hoping all offseason we would overpay for Miller, but whatever. 4/40 looks like a much better overpay than Panda's deal.

Or, at this point, Hanley's, Porcello's or Castillo's.

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

Or, at this point, Hanley's, Porcello's or Castillo's.

Evaluating long term deals after two months is always an intelligent analysis.

 

[JimD]

 
Morton was the one that jumped to mind for me last night.  Hopefully this one develops differently.
 
Morton, IIRC, relied heavily on a huge curveball, and didn't have the velo or the diverse arsenal of pitches that Rodriguez appears to have.

 
When I think of Morton, I think of the way he was endlessly hyped in the Sunday Globe baseball notes column for about a year prior to his ML debut.  Was that Cafardo? 

 

[Captaincoop]

 
When I think of Morton, I think of the way he was endlessly hyped in the Sunday Globe baseball notes column for about a year prior to his ML debut.  Was that Cafardo? 

I think it was Gammons.

 

[Detts]

I think it was Gammons.

 
I call BS.  Gammons NEVER over-hyped rookies.

 

[TheoShmeo]

Evaluating long term deals after two months is always an intelligent analysis.

Of course.  I tried to signal that I understood that with the qualifier "at this point." 

 

[joe dokes]

 
I call BS.  Gammons NEVER over-hyped rookies.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

In regards to Rodriguez's debut last night.

There has been a ton of chatter in the last couple of years about the gulf between AAA and the Majors being the cause of rookie struggles.

The two main causes - so the theory goes - are an expanded major league strikezone and better shifting. If these are, indeed the main culprits wouldn't it make pitchers transition to the majors easier? Should this be causing a complete rethink of MLEs?

 

[mt8thsw9th]

Or, at this point, Hanley's, Porcello's or Castillo's.

 
Talk about scope creep...

 

[Sprowl]

Yeah, pitchers can clearly be effective so long as there's some difference and the changeup moves well enough (e.g. Josh Beckett). But once they lose the fastball the bottom drops out quickly (e.g. Josh Beckett). So Boston's getting the bargain here since they can probably hold on to him for the entirety of the effective years.

 
Rodriguez' changeup behaves quite differently from his fastball, with lots of horizontal movement, so much that it could be lumped  in the sinker category.

 

[nighthob]

Rodriguez' changeup behaves quite differently from his fastball, with lots of horizontal movement, so much that it could be lumped  in the sinker category.

Yeah, I like his change. The Orioles were clearly too invested in the notion that the change needs a 12-15 mph spread to be effective. So I'm happy that Boston has him for the 10-12 years at the start of his career.

 

[Sampo Gida]

That was an impressive start.  95 mph fastball, good command and good secondary pitches against a hotTexas team thats handled LHP'ers pretty well.   Ace like stuff there.  Its only 1 start of course and pitchers have an advantage facing teams for a first time, but damn, how did the Orioles let this guy go for a rental?   Might be Bens biggest heist if he can keep that up .

 

[chrisfont9]

 
It must suck to be an Orioles fan watching Rodriquez, who has top-of-the rotation potential, pitch for the Red Sox and then seeing A.Miller dominate for the Yankees.  Now I know why the Orioles haven't won a World Series since Cal Ripken's sophomore year.

Yeah, over on Sons of Lenn Sakata they're chanting "small sample size! small sample size!" to make themselves feel better.

 

[Jnai]

 
Rodriguez' changeup behaves quite differently from his fastball, with lots of horizontal movement, so much that it could be lumped  in the sinker category.

 
Pitch movement / velocity kind of reminds me of a lefty Ramon Ramirez. Good fastball, power change, effective but cement mixer type slider. Throws harder, and lefty, makes for good things.
 
 
 
Here's Ramon in 2009:

 
 

 

[gammoseditor]

https://twitter.com/peteabe/status/604405973445304320

https://twitter.com/peteabe/status/604405973445304320

link to tweet

Pete Abraham on Twitter says one more turn for the six man rotation.

 

[Sprowl]

Pitch movement / velocity kind of reminds me of a lefty Ramon Ramirez. Good fastball, power change, effective but cement mixer type slider. Throws harder, and lefty, makes for good things.

 
Ramon Ramirez probably ended up as the textbook case of "not enough velocity separation" from the fastball when his fastball velocity deteriorated. By the end of his time in Boston, Ramirez was throwing a 92 fastball and an 88 splitter, and fooling no one. Edro throws an 88 changeup with stronger running action, which is still 7 mph from a 95 fastball. He also seemed adept at keeping the changeup out of the strike zone:
 

 

https://twitter.com/peteabe/status/604405973445304320
link to tweet

Pete Abraham on Twitter says one more turn for the six man rotation.

Binky Stays!! :wub:

It gives the starters a little extra motivation to keep their place. Let's see how they function under a little extra pressure.

 

[Toe Nash]

I would use a 6-man rotation for now, with the hope that the extra day of rest will get our 80-million dollar ace back on track. 
 
Wright gives the Red Sox a lot of flexibility.  In actuality, I would use a 5 and 1/2-man rotation.  I would use Wright for long relief if needed and then count his long relief appearance as a start.  If he isn't needed for long relief, I would use Wright as a starter.  Overall, the rotation would alternate between a 5-man and 6-man.
 
I would go back to a 5-man rotation if I decide to demote Kelly in a week or two.  As far as Masterson goes, I don't think he is in the picture anymore.  He will have to make it as a RP; I wouldn't be surprised to see him deactivated at some point. 
 

Pretty sure switching throwing days on the fly wouldn't go over too well with the other starters. If you needed Wright in long relief, Wright himself might be OK with it but everyone else would have to move up a day. You pretty much have to tell the guys at least 3-4 days out when they're going to pitch unless it's an emergency or the playoffs or something.

 

[Kilgore A. Trout]

 
Ramon Ramirez probably ended up as the textbook case of "not enough velocity separation" from the fastball when his fastball velocity deteriorated. By the end of his time in Boston, Ramirez was throwing a 92 fastball and an 88 splitter, and fooling no one. Edro throws an 88 changeup with stronger running action, which is still 7 mph from a 95 fastball. He also seemed adept at keeping the changeup out of the strike zone: 

Perhaps this is a stupid question, but why doesn't the velocity on the off speed pitches go down when the arm loses strength with age at something at least comparative to the fastball?

 

[Rough Carrigan]

To get this thread back on EdRod and off Joe Kelly, my only concern with last night was how heavily Rodriguez relied on the fastball... towards the end of his outing NESN flashed a graphic that 80+% of his pitches were the fastball. I would think that any decisions that would be made regarding him staying for good or how the rest of the staff slots in should be contingent on a second start at least - if a team is expecting him and is able to prep, how will that translate when they can sit fastball all night long?

Hopefully he (or whoever is calling pitches) can adjust accordingly.

At MLB network, right after the game, they had a graphic that showed that in his first time through the Rangers' order Rodriguez threw something like 27 fastballs out of 30 pitches and that in his second time through the order it was a nearly even fastball/non-fastball split, something like 40 pitches made up of 20 fastballs, 10 sliders and 10 changes.
 
He had a very good fastball and the Rangers had never seen him so Swihart rode that the first time through the order.  It made sense.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

 
Ramon Ramirez probably ended up as the textbook case of "not enough velocity separation" from the fastball when his fastball velocity deteriorated. By the end of his time in Boston, Ramirez was throwing a 92 fastball and an 88 splitter, and fooling no one. Edro throws an 88 changeup with stronger running action, which is still 7 mph from a 95 fastball. He also seemed adept at keeping the changeup out of the strike zone:
 

 

Binky Stays!! :wub:

It gives the starters a little extra motivation to keep their place. Let's see how they function under a little extra pressure.

This is my preference. Eddie-Rod, Kelly, and Wright all know they have another start (possibly two in the case of Kelly and Wright) to win two of the three available spots in the rotation.

With the built-in days off throughout the season these other guys are accustomed to pitching on Day 6 much of the time anyway.

 

[Devizier]

Paxton Crawford aka the next Greg Maddux gets zero love?

 
'Paxton,  your freaking needles are all over the floor!"

 

[dcmissle]

He is a potential difference maker in a division that defines mediocrity -- or worse -- and that has our last place team only 3 games out. I think you ride this horse as long and as far as he'll take you, with Innings being the only constraint. Yes, the division sucks. No, through 2 full months the RS show no signs of capturing it.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

The best part of Ed Rod's debut for me was seeing the bad, awkward swings he got - especially from lefthanded hitters.  

 

[Scott Cooper]

Hope he's just basking in the glow of a very difficult thing well done.  Where it will lead, who knows?  But for now, what do you suppose he's thinking?

 
His contract!  $$$

 

[The Tax Man]

 
I call BS.  Gammons NEVER over-hyped rookies.

 
The Great Swihartening of a prospect, if you will.
 
http://sonsofsamhorn.com/baseball/teams/al-east/boston-red-sox/the-great-swihartening-peter-gammons-to-tweet-the-future/

 

[Cuzittt]

Eduardo Rodriguez pitches again this afternoon. Ian York takes a look at what he did well in his debut.