Edelman: Canton or Cannot and What of PEDs?

Devizier

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Mankins maybe? Only one AP All-Pro but two Sporting News All-Pros, seven Pro Bowl appearances, part of four 500-point teams, Belichick called him the best guard he ever coached, etc.
Mankins and Gronkowski is probably it. Moss if you want to credit him to the Patriots. Welker has an extremely outside chance.

Even on the defensive side, there won't be a ton of represented Patriots. Wilfork and Seymour are the only currently un-inducted guys that have a chance in my opinion.
 

BusRaker

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Yeah, but how many from the Steelers run from 2005-2010 on offense are getting in?

... So is Polamalu, despite my conviction that he's terribly overrated and owes a large part of his fame to his hair.
Even on the defensive side, there won't be a ton of represented Patriots. Wilfork and Seymour are the only currently un-inducted guys that have a chance in my opinion.
If Polamalu gets in for his hair, then Wilfork should surely get in for his belly.
 

bakahump

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All of this is a bit unfair. "Hes not a HOFer. Look at his numbers compared to Ward/Holt/WRX"

All true. But we are assuming or at least comparing a players who has more time left to play to guys who are retired. Are we really surprised the counting stats dont match up?

Now Edelman might need a herculean effort to reach Ward or Holt career numbers. But he might only need 3/4s of those considering his Playoff heroics. "The Catch", the MVP and the "Throw" all have cache.

So I guess I reserve judgement to see how long he cant take the punishment and see where he is in 3 or 4 more seasons.
 

BaseballJones

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And that's fine. The story of the dynasty is Tom and Bill.
I think this is it. They've had tons of outstanding players, but just not many HOF-caliber players. That's ok, and it really exemplifies exactly how they've built this team. GOAT head coach. GOAT quarterback. And spend money not on HOF-level talents but on a roster full of really good and solid players. It's a huge reason why they've been able to sustain it, even when they've suffered huge numbers of injuries.
 

drleather2001

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All of this is a bit unfair. "Hes not a HOFer. Look at his numbers compared to Ward/Holt/WRX"

All true. But we are assuming or at least comparing a players who has more time left to play to guys who are retired. Are we really surprised the counting stats dont match up?

Now Edelman might need a herculean effort to reach Ward or Holt career numbers. But he might only need 3/4s of those considering his Playoff heroics. "The Catch", the MVP and the "Throw" all have cache.

So I guess I reserve judgement to see how long he cant take the punishment and see where he is in 3 or 4 more seasons.
Isn't the best comp to Edelman Dwight Clark? And, with all due respect to Edelman's post-season individual highlights, there's nothing that will ever overtake The Catch as the archetypal postseason [offensive] highlight.

But sure, he could have three seasons here on out with 1,000+ yards receiving and a couple of more solid postseason runs, and it's a genuine discussion. But it's not there yet. His induction would the first of its kind.
 

Kliq

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I think over time, maybe 30 years from now, the Patriots dynasty will be in an even greater perspective, and I think more people will have a chance to get in. There are 12 Lombardi-era Packers in the Hall of Fame and not all of them were locks to go in right after they retired. It took a while for guys like Henry Jordan and Dave Robinson to get elected; because people were able to look back and really appreciate how dominant those Green Bay teams were. I think that opens the door for guys like Wilfork, Seymour, Mankins, Light, Edelman, etc.
 

Old Fart Tree

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He doesn’t belong in the hall of fame. Maybe the Patriots hall. And his PED use has nothing to do with that, he just doesn’t have the numbers.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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I think this is it. They've had tons of outstanding players, but just not many HOF-caliber players. That's ok, and it really exemplifies exactly how they've built this team. GOAT head coach. GOAT quarterback. And spend money not on HOF-level talents but on a roster full of really good and solid players. It's a huge reason why they've been able to sustain it, even when they've suffered huge numbers of injuries.
I think using the 1970s Steelers as a comparison - which I've seen a lot - is also kind of deceptive, as that team just had an unusual amount of very high end talent.

The 49ers run of consistent success lasted from 1981 to 1998 and the only players in the Hall who made it primarily based on their contributions for the 49ers during that time span are Joe Montana, Steve Young, Ronnie Lott, Jerry Rice, and Charles Haley (Fred Dean is arguable, as he did win two rings with them and had one very dominant year, but most of his best work was done beforehand). They had a ton of very good players who made a few Pro Bowls and were dominant at their peaks who aren't sniffing the Hall. Randy Cross, Eric Wright, John Taylor, Roger Craig, etc.

The Patriots really aren't that different. They are going to be in the same ballpark in terms of non-QB players if they end up with Law, Gronk, plus a couple from the Seymour, Edelman, Vinatieri, Welker group eventually. Of course, one can say the Patriots were the better dynasty (I'm certainly not arguing against that) but the 49ers were dominant for a long time and didn't have that many Hall of Famers. Its hard to make the Hall of Fame!
 
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Dec 6, 2017
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I don't believe Edelman should be in the hall. I'd put his career along the line with Eli. A mid tier player at their peak who played well in a couple superbowl runs. Why Eli gets any hall consideration doesn't make sense to me. Both had great careers, neither deserves to be in.
 

Al Zarilla

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FWIW and it’s just one guy, but Nate Burleson on NFLN this morning guaranteed Jules in Canton 5 years after he retires. He didn’t even have a caveat of his needing x more receiving yards or y more tds or z more Super Bowls. Nate didn’t address Jules’ lack of pro bowls or light receiving stats, but, go Nate!
 

Super Nomario

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FWIW and it’s just one guy, but Nate Burleson on NFLN this morning guaranteed Jules in Canton 5 years after he retires. He didn’t even have a caveat of his needing x more receiving yards or y more tds or z more Super Bowls. Nate didn’t address Jules’ lack of pro bowls or light receiving stats, but, go Nate!
Why does Burleson have any credibility on this subject? He doesn't vote for the HOF, does he study HOF voting or something?
 

Dernells Casket n Flagon

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I don't believe Edelman should be in the hall. I'd put his career along the line with Eli. A mid tier player at their peak who played well in a couple superbowl runs. Why Eli gets any hall consideration doesn't make sense to me. Both had great careers, neither deserves to be in.
I don't think Eli is really a hall of famer, and I think his case is miles better than Edelman.

4 time pro bowler to 0.
2 time Super Bowl Champion as a QB, which does make a difference.
Top 10 all time in Completions, Yards, TDs at Quarterback.
 

Al Zarilla

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Why does Burleson have any credibility on this subject? He doesn't vote for the HOF, does he study HOF voting or something?
Who knows, maybe it’s because they have a 4-5 hour program and have to find things to talk about. That’s why I said FWIW and it’s just one guy.

BTW, Swann made the HOF before teammate John Stallworth (by one year) even though Stallworth was all over Swann as far as the numbers go except touchdowns (63-51, Stallworth). I don’t think you can deny that flashiness and postseason count for a lot.
 

Super Nomario

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Who knows, maybe it’s because they have a 4-5 hour program and have to find things to talk about. That’s why I said FWIW and it’s just one guy.
I'm saying IW zero.

BTW, Swann made the HOF before teammate John Stallworth (by one year) even though Stallworth was all over Swann as far as the numbers go except touchdowns (63-51, Stallworth). I don’t think you can deny that flashiness and postseason count for a lot.
One thing that stands out is that Swann had a little better production before 1980 and thus got the nod for the All-70's team, and just about everyone from that team made the Hall of Fame. That was not really a strong decade for WRs and Swann's case was not super-strong anyway, but I imagine that factored in. I don't think Edelman has much chance of making the 2010s all-decade team.
 

Super Nomario

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Would he have more or less than anyone posting here?

FWIW, Rice thinks so too.
Jerry Rice guaranteed Edelman will be elected?

I mean, if Burleson thinks Edelman is HOF-caliber, he's entitled to his opinion, and it has some merit as a former NFL WR. But guaranteeing he makes it? That's just nonsense.

(BTW, Edelman used to date Jerry Rice's daughter, so they go way back)
 

Marciano490

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Jerry Rice guaranteed Edelman will be elected?

I mean, if Burleson thinks Edelman is HOF-caliber, he's entitled to his opinion, and it has some merit as a former NFL WR. But guaranteeing he makes it? That's just nonsense.

(BTW, Edelman used to date Jerry Rice's daughter, so they go way back)
I hear she’s quite the catch!

Thank you, thank you.
 

CaptainLaddie

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Wait, WHAT? Edelman dated Jerry Rice's daughter?!

Anyway, I actually think people are underrating Eli Manning, Edelman, Welker, and frankly, Hightower's chances. Eli's won two QBs and has counting stats. Welker's stats aren't amazing, but he basically revolutionized the slot WR spot and he's the GOAT there. Compared to Randy Moss, of course he's not worth it. But in modern NFL terms, he's the best slot guy ever, and that means something.

As for Edelman -- clearly his counting stats don't add up but his postseason numbers are eyepopping and he had an iconic catch and has SB MVP... which leads me to Hightower. I think he's had some seriously iconic and huge plays in SB49 (Lynch tackle), 51 (Ryan sack to knock out of FG range), and 53 (and his total dominance across the board https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/2/6/18211917/donta-hightower-2019-super-bowl-mvp-hero-patriots-sack-jared-goff ), he's the defensive leader of all of those teams in a dynasty (and he missed SB52 where his team allowed 41 points), and he's a Captain. I think being THE GUY for 3 SB defenses gets you a long way.
 

rodderick

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Wait, WHAT? Edelman dated Jerry Rice's daughter?!

Anyway, I actually think people are underrating Eli Manning, Edelman, Welker, and frankly, Hightower's chances. Eli's won two QBs and has counting stats. Welker's stats aren't amazing, but he basically revolutionized the slot WR spot and he's the GOAT there. Compared to Randy Moss, of course he's not worth it. But in modern NFL terms, he's the best slot guy ever, and that means something.

As for Edelman -- clearly his counting stats don't add up but his postseason numbers are eyepopping and he had an iconic catch and has SB MVP... which leads me to Hightower. I think he's had some seriously iconic and huge plays in SB49 (Lynch tackle), 51 (Ryan sack to knock out of FG range), and 53 (and his total dominance across the board https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/2/6/18211917/donta-hightower-2019-super-bowl-mvp-hero-patriots-sack-jared-goff ), he's the defensive leader of all of those teams in a dynasty (and he missed SB52 where his team allowed 41 points), and he's a Captain. I think being THE GUY for 3 SB defenses gets you a long way.
Teddy Bruschi, Troy Brown and Willie McGinest all fit your criteria and they won't ever get into the hall. Rodney Harrison has a much stronger case than guys like Edelman and Hightower, was also incredibly clutch in the playoffs and he won't get in either.
 

TheoShmeo

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Wait, WHAT? Edelman dated Jerry Rice's daughter?!

Anyway, I actually think people are underrating Eli Manning, Edelman, Welker, and frankly, Hightower's chances. Eli's won two QBs and has counting stats. Welker's stats aren't amazing, but he basically revolutionized the slot WR spot and he's the GOAT there. Compared to Randy Moss, of course he's not worth it. But in modern NFL terms, he's the best slot guy ever, and that means something.

As for Edelman -- clearly his counting stats don't add up but his postseason numbers are eyepopping and he had an iconic catch and has SB MVP... which leads me to Hightower. I think he's had some seriously iconic and huge plays in SB49 (Lynch tackle), 51 (Ryan sack to knock out of FG range), and 53 (and his total dominance across the board https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/2/6/18211917/donta-hightower-2019-super-bowl-mvp-hero-patriots-sack-jared-goff ), he's the defensive leader of all of those teams in a dynasty (and he missed SB52 where his team allowed 41 points), and he's a Captain. I think being THE GUY for 3 SB defenses gets you a long way.
Eli might get in. Probably will. NY market. Two SB wins as a serious underdog. Two iconic (yet disgusting) throws on winning drives. Piling up some numbers.

But sorry, I think it's a joke if he makes it. When has he ever been among the top 5 QBs in a season? Never. He's always been in the next level down. He has also been positively mediocre for the last 3-4 years, not a small sample.

This wont be as bad as a Harold Baines situation but getting in off two SB runs and longevity makes no sense to me.
 

tims4wins

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There have been 99 instances of a QB having a single season passer rating over 100. Eli has precisely ZERO of those seasons. His best passer rating ties for 223rd on the all time list. It is a fucking joke that he will make it in this era. Baker Mayfield put up a better passer rating in his rookie year than Eli's all time best season. 2004 Marc Bulger put up a better passer rating than Eli's all time best season. 37 year old Jeff Garcia in Tampa put up a better passer rating than Eli's all time best season. 34 year old Trent Green. Chris Chandler in 1997. I mean seriously check out this list

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_single_season.htm

He is tied for 22nd among active QBs in passer rating. He is tied with Flacco at 42nd all time (behind Case Keenum and Sam Bradford, among others).

Edit: I would legitimately pay $1,000 or more to be able to be in the HoF voting room to make arguments against Eli. I'd probably pay $5K. It would be a dream come true.
 

BigSoxFan

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If we’re talking about Eli Smith instead of Eli Manning, does he get in? I’m fully convinced Eli gets in but I think it’d be laughable. He’s only won a playoff game in 2 of his 14 seasons as a full-time starter. Career rating of 84 in a passing era. The playoffs runs can’t be discounted but they shouldn’t be overweighted either. Likewise for the counting stats which are the result of good health.
 

tims4wins

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If we’re talking about Eli Smith instead of Eli Manning, does he get in? I’m fully convinced Eli gets in but I think it’d be laughable. He’s only won a playoff game in 2 of his 14 seasons as a full-time starter. Career rating of 84 in a passing era. The playoffs runs can’t be discounted but they shouldn’t be overweighted either. Likewise for the counting stats which are the result of good health.
Tom "game manager / system QB" Brady had a better passer rating in 2001 than Eli's career rating
 

Ed Hillel

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I think he should be in, but with the caveat I think slot receivers should be on a different scale from outside receivers. The game has evolved, especially the last 10-15 years, and I think individuals who can consistently beat coverage in the middle of the field, take constant abuse, move, and keep on ticking should get more credit than they do moving forward. His production for his position is off the charts.

Another thing I haven’t seen mentioned here is that Edelman is one of the best punt returners ever, full stop. He’s not as good as Hester (who also returned kickoffs), and Tyreek Hill is giving him a run for his money, but as it stands now Edelman is probably the second best punt returner since 2000. If you’ve got a borderline candidate, I think that should put him over the hump.

The main problem he’s facing is the 5-person limit, though. Unless that’s changed, he probably won’t get in. Hopefully the NFL does, and let’s people in who deserve it. The WR backlog right now is ridiculous.
 

Dernells Casket n Flagon

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Wait, WHAT? Edelman dated Jerry Rice's daughter?!

Anyway, I actually think people are underrating Eli Manning, Edelman, Welker, and frankly, Hightower's chances. Eli's won two QBs and has counting stats. Welker's stats aren't amazing, but he basically revolutionized the slot WR spot and he's the GOAT there. Compared to Randy Moss, of course he's not worth it. But in modern NFL terms, he's the best slot guy ever, and that means something.

As for Edelman -- clearly his counting stats don't add up but his postseason numbers are eyepopping and he had an iconic catch and has SB MVP... which leads me to Hightower. I think he's had some seriously iconic and huge plays in SB49 (Lynch tackle), 51 (Ryan sack to knock out of FG range), and 53 (and his total dominance across the board https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/2/6/18211917/donta-hightower-2019-super-bowl-mvp-hero-patriots-sack-jared-goff ), he's the defensive leader of all of those teams in a dynasty (and he missed SB52 where his team allowed 41 points), and he's a Captain. I think being THE GUY for 3 SB defenses gets you a long way.
I am pretty confident that Eli will get in. I just don't think he should. I think Philip Rivers is a much better QB and he's going to have a much harder time getting in than Eli.
 

Super Nomario

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Wait, WHAT? Edelman dated Jerry Rice's daughter?!
I only found it out a couple months ago myself; I can't believe a bigger deal hasn't been made of it.

Anyway, I actually think people are underrating Eli Manning, Edelman, Welker, and frankly, Hightower's chances. Eli's won two QBs and has counting stats. Welker's stats aren't amazing, but he basically revolutionized the slot WR spot and he's the GOAT there. Compared to Randy Moss, of course he's not worth it. But in modern NFL terms, he's the best slot guy ever, and that means something.

As for Edelman -- clearly his counting stats don't add up but his postseason numbers are eyepopping and he had an iconic catch and has SB MVP... which leads me to Hightower. I think he's had some seriously iconic and huge plays in SB49 (Lynch tackle), 51 (Ryan sack to knock out of FG range), and 53 (and his total dominance across the board https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/2/6/18211917/donta-hightower-2019-super-bowl-mvp-hero-patriots-sack-jared-goff ), he's the defensive leader of all of those teams in a dynasty (and he missed SB52 where his team allowed 41 points), and he's a Captain. I think being THE GUY for 3 SB defenses gets you a long way.
(even better: High had the key strip sack in 51; Flowers had the sack you describe. not quite as good: not a captain this season, has been in the past)

I think you (and several people in this thread) are selling short just how hard it is to make the HOF. Only five players make it each year. It's the best of the best. It's hard to have perspective on the current guys while they're playing (especially days after a Super Bowl), but look at the key figures from the early part of the dynasty:
Ty Law: 2x All-Pro, 5x Pro Bowl, 3x champ, second-team All-decade, signature Super Bowl pick-six, changed rules for him, just enshrined (on his fifth try)
Richard Seymour: 3x All-Pro, 7x Pro Bowl, 3x champ, first-team All-decade, the best defensive player Belichick has had in NE, not in yet on two tries
Rodney Harrison: 2x All-Pro, (weirdly only) 1x Pro Bowl, 2x champ, signature playoff moments all over the place (7 playoff INTs in 9 games in NE), 30 career sacks and INTs - not even a semi-finalist this year (top 25)

Hightower and Edelman are really more in the group with guys like Bruschi, McGinest, and Vrabel - key players who made huge contributions, had big playoff moments, were terrific players who got one or two Pro Bowl nods, and not remotely likely to make the Hall of Fame under the current rules / standards. I don't disagree with anything you wrote about Hightower, but what about that description doesn't apply to Bruschi, who has not come close?

Welker is more interesting because of his six-year run of statistical dominance, but his overall numbers don't compete with guys like Isaac Bruce (who has yet to make it). I don't know what to think of Eli; I assume he'll be pretty divisive and it will take him a while, if he does end up making it.
 
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BaseballJones

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What's interesting to me about the HOF conversation is this. We poo-pooh the pro bowl and say it's a flawed process and really, nobody cares about it. And yet, when we're talking about a player's HOF candidacy, pro bowls are ALWAYS brought up to help (or hurt) that player's case. So yeah, Brady doesn't care about Pro Bowls - he'd rather win Super Bowls. But for other guys, Pro Bowls are a pretty big deal, especially for those players who hope to have a case for the HOF. This stuff actually matters. Whether it should or not is utterly immaterial. We would do well to remember that the next time we shrug off the value of being named to the Pro Bowl.

And Eli is the most fascinating case of all. He'll get in, even though at no point in his career was he ever anything other than (1) healthy - which is really important, and (2) somewhat better than average. At his BEST. The ultimate compiler with two MASSIVE aces in the hole in their 2007 and 2011 title runs. Make no mistake...him beating Brady in those games will matter to voters.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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If you want to put in an undeserving Giant for leading them to two SB wins, give it to Justin Tuck.
 

drbretto

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Well, I've read all of the arguments and the rational pick definitely seems like it's landed on not-quite-HoFer, but I just still can't accept it. My gut still tells me this man is a Hall of Famer. I don't think it can be properly evaluated until his career is over. He's not done yet. But, man, I see that dude, I think there's a Hall of Famer. I try to be rational most of the time, but I just can't here.

The narrative, the rings, the SB MVP, the attitude and let's not underestimate the handsomeness. Not that he had gone unnoticed before, but this year I think he really came out as a superstar and I think enough people will carry that narrative that he will have every advantage going into the voting, including support for re-evaluating how people think about slot receivers as mentioned in this thread. I think, it's a lot like Big Papi. 4 years before Papi retired, I don't think there was much of a HoF case, but I believe the narrative caused people to re-evaluate the DH and he'll end up getting in, too. I think the same thing will happen here, in fact, I think Edelman helps boost Welker's credibility in the end, even though Welker came first.

People vote with their hearts. All he needs is to have a moderately justifiable stat sheet in the end. I think he gets there.
 

Average Reds

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Eli might get in. Probably will. NY market. Two SB wins as a serious underdog. Two iconic (yet disgusting) throws on winning drives. Piling up some numbers.

But sorry, I think it's a joke if he makes it. When has he ever been among the top 5 QBs in a season? Never. He's always been in the next level down. He has also been positively mediocre for the last 3-4 years, not a small sample.

This wont be as bad as a Harold Baines situation but getting in off two SB runs and longevity makes no sense to me.
I agree with everything you said here, but there is no doubt in my mind that he (Eli) gets in.

Feels like Edelman has quite a bit more in the tank and if he has another two or three solid seasons, this won't be a real debate.
 

Super Nomario

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What's interesting to me about the HOF conversation is this. We poo-pooh the pro bowl and say it's a flawed process and really, nobody cares about it. And yet, when we're talking about a player's HOF candidacy, pro bowls are ALWAYS brought up to help (or hurt) that player's case. So yeah, Brady doesn't care about Pro Bowls - he'd rather win Super Bowls. But for other guys, Pro Bowls are a pretty big deal, especially for those players who hope to have a case for the HOF. This stuff actually matters. Whether it should or not is utterly immaterial. We would do well to remember that the next time we shrug off the value of being named to the Pro Bowl.
That's fair. Obviously for about half the positions on the field, we either don't have statistics or don't have meaningful statistics. So we start with All Pro, but that's such a high standard, and then it gets hard. Second-team All-Pro is almost totally meaningless (you might literally only have one vote). So where do you go, for say, an OL? Games started?

It'll be interesting to see if stuff like NFL Network Top 100 or even PFF grades start weighing in. Edelman's best showing is #71 in the 2017 top-100, which ranks 13th among WR (and behind slot guys Jarvis Landry, Larry Fitzgerald, and T.Y. Hilton). Hightower has only cracked the top 100 once, and barely (#94). I'd expect both to have their best showing in the next one.
 

The Needler

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That's fair. Obviously for about half the positions on the field, we either don't have statistics or don't have meaningful statistics. So we start with All Pro, but that's such a high standard, and then it gets hard. Second-team All-Pro is almost totally meaningless (you might literally only have one vote). So where do you go, for say, an OL? Games started?

It'll be interesting to see if stuff like NFL Network Top 100 or even PFF grades start weighing in. Edelman's best showing is #71 in the 2017 top-100, which ranks 13th among WR (and behind slot guys Jarvis Landry, Larry Fitzgerald, and T.Y. Hilton). Hightower has only cracked the top 100 once, and barely (#94). I'd expect both to have their best showing in the next one.
PFF Top100 is already out. Edelman and Hightower did not make the list. (Brady #7, Gilmore #9.)

Edelman’s 79.7 was his second-lowest of his last five seasons played (2014, 78.0). I think people have been forgetting his relatively high number of drops this season.
 

NortheasternPJ

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PFF Top100 is already out. Edelman and Hightower did not make the list. (Brady #7, Gilmore #9.)

Edelman’s 79.7 was his second-lowest of his last five seasons played (2014, 78.0). I think people have been forgetting his relatively high number of drops this season.
Why can't we get guys like the #11 ranked Akiem Hicks?
 

StupendousMan

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Edelman shaved his beard.

He's in now IMO
As reported in the Boston Globe

https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2019/02/08/julian-edelman-ellen-beard

when Edelman appeared on Ellen Degeneres' talk show, she asked him if he'd allow her to shave his beard in exchange for a $10,000 donation to the Boys and Girls Club of Boston. He not only agreed, but volunteered to donate an additional $10,000 of his own.

I know that many athletes perform countless good works for charities of all sorts, most of whom never publicize their actions. I applaud them all. This is just one case that I happened to hear, and I applaud it, too. Thanks, Jules!

I think his case for the Hall of Fame is weak, but I'm really happy to root for him each week.
 

drleather2001

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Well, I've read all of the arguments and the rational pick definitely seems like it's landed on not-quite-HoFer, but I just still can't accept it. My gut still tells me this man is a Hall of Famer. I don't think it can be properly evaluated until his career is over. He's not done yet. But, man, I see that dude, I think there's a Hall of Famer. I try to be rational most of the time, but I just can't here.

The narrative, the rings, the SB MVP, the attitude and let's not underestimate the handsomeness. Not that he had gone unnoticed before, but this year I think he really came out as a superstar and I think enough people will carry that narrative that he will have every advantage going into the voting, including support for re-evaluating how people think about slot receivers as mentioned in this thread. I think, it's a lot like Big Papi. 4 years before Papi retired, I don't think there was much of a HoF case, but I believe the narrative caused people to re-evaluate the DH and he'll end up getting in, too. I think the same thing will happen here, in fact, I think Edelman helps boost Welker's credibility in the end, even though Welker came first.

People vote with their hearts. All he needs is to have a moderately justifiable stat sheet in the end. I think he gets there.
You’re biased. That’s ok; you’re a fan, it’s supposed to be fun. But when “narrative” and “handsomeness” are two key planks in your argument, maybe realize that anybody who’s not a big Patriots fan is going to find your opinion a little less than credible. When the HOF starts letting in guys for being cool dudes, let me know. You need numbers.

And David Ortiz was one of the best hitters in baseball for about a decade when it was 3 years before he retired, with 9 all star nods and 5 top-5 MVP finishes. Narrative my ass; David Ortiz was a terror at the plate. Edelman a wonderful player, but he is no David Ortiz. He’s closer to Jack Morris.
 

Ale Xander

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Oct 31, 2013
21,881
When I saw this thread bumped, I thought it was about his performance on the Grammys. (with DMC, not the Run kind).
 

RoDaddy

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When I saw this thread bumped, I thought it was about his performance on the Grammys. (with DMC, not the Run kind).
HaHa, good job by DMC calling out the boos in the crowd. Really, anti-Patriots crap now extends to the Grammies?! Anyhow, so cool to see the Pats presenting there
 
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