Dope Divisional NFL Game Thread

Seels

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hard to say a loss is totally on him when he gives his team the lead twice with under 2 minutes left
what game are you referring to? Both the Rams and Vikings games he was completely unable to have sustained drives, left his defense on the field way too long, and turned the ball over inside the last 5 minutes.

Brees makes goofy ass decisions that don't go punished playing in the regular season and get put under a microscope in the post season. Hell in the Rams game he should have been picked another 2-3 times, but all anyone remembers is the non call. He has 13 interceptions in his last 10 playoff games.
 

Seels

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Brees did not lose any of those two games.

If the ref calls a PI that everyone on this planet knew was PI the game is over. If Diggs gets tackled like he should have, the Saints win and Brees may not have played lights out MVP but he did not lose those games.
If Diggs gets tackled he's still at the 33 or so, plenty of room to hit a field goal.
Brees threw an interception right at the start of over time, and had 2-3 other ducks that would be picked most of the time leading up to the non call.

Brees does not take care of the ball and does not take care of the clock. Certainly not to the degree that you would think someone with his reputation should. Mistakes are made, for sure, but he makes more that are late and close than similar players.
 

scottyno

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what game are you referring to? Both the Rams and Vikings games he was completely unable to have sustained drives, left his defense on the field way too long, and turned the ball over inside the last 5 minutes.

Brees makes goofy ass decisions that don't go punished playing in the regular season and get put under a microscope in the post season. Hell in the Rams game he should have been picked another 2-3 times, but all anyone remembers is the non call. He has 13 interceptions in his last 10 playoff games.
The rams game he gave his team the lead with 1:41 left, and the game would have been over if they called the obvious PI. The 2018 vikings game he gave his team the lead with 25 seconds left.
 

Hendu for Kutch

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That’s what I thought. Still finding new things to achieve after 20+ years.
Incredibly, he hadn't ever even opened on the road before. Shoot, he only ever had 4 playoff seasons where it would have even been possible since they got the bye (and automatic home game in Div round) the other 13 seasons.
 

brandonchristensen

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That is a great video.

It's incredible how many people love Brady. He's earned their respect certainly, but people genuinely love him from all teams and situations.
 

CantKeepmedown

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All the hoopla with this matchup and all this lack of passing

Rodgers, Allen, Mahomes, Mayfield can all do this in a single half
None of those 4 really lit it up this weekend either. Nobody went over 300 yards. Brady is more than capable of hanging in there with them. But your overall point is correct. He'll have to be much better next weekend.
 

trekfan55

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Sure, it's nice to have Mahomes. They're also 24-1 in their last 25 games that they've tried to win. That's kinda good, no?
I think it's more than just Mahomes. They plugged in Henne and he was more than serviceable. Not taking any credit away from Mahomes but is he the same QB on the Bears (go back in time, the Bears take Mahomes, the Chiefs Trubisky)?

Disclaimer, not calling Mahomes a "system QB" or anything of the like. Just saying that Henne came in and they kept going. Mahomes is a great QB but the staff around him him is also amazing.
 

johnmd20

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I think it's more than just Mahomes. They plugged in Henne and he was more than serviceable. Not taking any credit away from Mahomes but is he the same QB on the Bears (go back in time, the Bears take Mahomes, the Chiefs Trubisky)?

Disclaimer, not calling Mahomes a "system QB" or anything of the like. Just saying that Henne came in and they kept going. Mahomes is a great QB but the staff around him him is also amazing.
How did they keep going? Henne had a horrendous INT and needed a miracle 3rd and 14 run for 13.5 yards to get the game clinching first down.

They didn't keep going with Henne. They survived, barely, because of a broken scramble and an incredible 4th and 1 play call that any QB in the league would have completed with ease.
 

trekfan55

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How did they keep going? Henne had a horrendous INT and needed a miracle 3rd and 14 run for 13.5 yards to get the game clinching first down.

They didn't keep going with Henne. They survived, barely, because of a broken scramble and an incredible 4th and 1 play call that any QB in the league would have completed with ease.
There were a bunch of completed passes. Kelce got in for a TD. Hardman ran like a gazelle in another play, and he manged to do the 13 yard run.

I'll grant you the INT, Mahomes does not make that mistake.
 

johnmd20

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There were a bunch of completed passes. Kelce got in for a TD. Hardman ran like a gazelle in another play, and he manged to do the 13 yard run.

I'll grant you the INT, Mahomes does not make that mistake.
Kelce got in for a TD on a pass throw by. . . .Patrick Mahomes.
 

Mystic Merlin

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Henne didn’t throw the TD pass to Kelce; Mahomes did.

Henne played on three drives. First, he took over for Mahomes and KC got 25-30 yards and made a FG. Then he had the atrocious INT and, finally, the clock killing drive.

He did enough to protect the lead he inherited, so KC has to be pleased, but in the event KC needs him to play this upcoming week they are totally fucked.
 

johnmd20

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Today: Patrick Mahomes, are we sure he's good?

For some reason this website has a really tough time talking about superstar QBs like Aaron Rodgers or Patrick Mahomes. It is ok to call someone great.
 

trekfan55

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Today: Patrick Mahomes, are we sure he's good?

For some reason this website has a really tough time talking about superstar QBs like Aaron Rodgers or Patrick Mahomes. It is ok to call someone great.
FTR I think Mahomes is great. Best QB in the league for sure.

My point is great QBs need a good supporting cast and Mahomes has that. If Mahomes lands in Chicago instead of Trubisky he's still great. But things do look different.

Apologies about the Kelce TD. I was in and out of a meeting so I missed that.
 

johnmd20

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FTR I think Mahomes is great. Best QB in the league for sure.

My point is great QBs need a good supporting cast and Mahomes has that. If Mahomes lands in Chicago instead of Trubisky he's still great. But things do look different.

Apologies about the Kelce TD. I was in and out of a meeting so I missed that.
Well, this is absurd and you should be questioned for this take. It isn't based on reasoning or actual results.

From 1993 to 2017, the Chiefs won a total of 1 playoff game. One single playoff win in well over 20 years. Now in less than 3 years, they have 5 playoff wins, a super bowl victory, and three consecutive trips to the Championship game.

What changed in 2018?

So, no, if Mahomes was on the Bears, it wouldn't look different. The Bears would be awesome. Allen Robinson would have 150 catches a year and Cole Kemet would be considered the next great tight end. Mahomes is a generational talent on a rookie deal. That is an epic advantage for the team who has him, just like it was an epic advantage for Seattle when Russ was on his rookie deal.
 

trekfan55

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Well, this is absurd and you should be questioned for this take. It isn't based on reasoning or actual results.

From 1993 to 2017, the Chiefs won a total of 1 playoff game. One single playoff win in well over 20 years. Now in less than 3 years, they have 5 playoff wins, a super bowl victory, and three consecutive trips to the Championship game.

What changed in 2018?

So, no, if Mahomes was on the Bears, it wouldn't look different. The Bears would be awesome. Allen Robinson would have 150 catches a year and Cole Kemet would be considered the next great tight end. Mahomes is a generational talent on a rookie deal. That is an epic advantage for the team who has him, just like it was an epic advantage for Seattle when Russ was on his rookie deal.
I'll grant you most of this. We may disagree slightly, but since we all agree that Mahomes is a generational QB...

But didn´t he sign a gynormous deal already? (ie, not on a rookie contract)
 

rodderick

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Well, this is absurd and you should be questioned for this take. It isn't based on reasoning or actual results.

From 1993 to 2017, the Chiefs won a total of 1 playoff game. One single playoff win in well over 20 years. Now in less than 3 years, they have 5 playoff wins, a super bowl victory, and three consecutive trips to the Championship game.

What changed in 2018?

So, no, if Mahomes was on the Bears, it wouldn't look different. The Bears would be awesome. Allen Robinson would have 150 catches a year and Cole Kemet would be considered the next great tight end. Mahomes is a generational talent on a rookie deal. That is an epic advantage for the team who has him, just like it was an epic advantage for Seattle when Russ was on his rookie deal.
Sure, but in 2017 Alex Smith led the league in passer rating and AY/A with the same offense Mahomes inherited. I never understood why physically talented QBs get exempt from being pestered with the "system" talk. I'm obviously not saying Mahomes is a "system QB", of course he is great and would likely be great everywhere he went, but I absolutely question if he would be what he is today playing for a team without Andy Reid and those weapons. Maybe he goes to Houston and is exactly in the same spot Deshaun Watson currently is: great young QB who no one in their right mind is putting among the all time greats yet.
 

BaseballJones

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I'll grant you most of this. We may disagree slightly, but since we all agree that Mahomes is a generational QB...

But didn´t he sign a gynormous deal already? (ie, not on a rookie contract)
Yes but it doesn't kick in until next year.

His cap hit for 2020 was just $5.3 million. From there it looks like this:

2021: $24.8 m
2022: $31.4 m
2023: $42.5 m
2024: $39.9 m
2025: $41.9 m
2026: $41.9 m
2027: $59.9 m
2028: $44.4 m
2029: $44.9 m
2030: $50.5 m
2031: $52.5 m

So he's on his rookie deal in 2020, and he's got a below-market salary for 2021...and maybe even 2022 depending on how things shake out. But then he starts to get really expensive. REALLY expensive.

It's one thing to have your stud QB take up $5.3 million of your cap. It's another thing entirely for him to be taking $42.5 million (8x his 2020 cap hit) of the cap. That's $37.2 million that they can't allocate to other positions. Now Mahomes is still probably worth it because he's so good. But it makes roster-building a lot harder.

And I've always said that it's one thing to have your QB salary go up as he grows into superstardom. The increased salary is commensurate with increased production. But it's really almost impossible for Mahomes to be better than he has been. His numbers are already breath-taking. How much better can he actually get?

Tom Brady went from his 2001 numbers to his 2007 numbers:

2001: 63.9%, 2,843 yds, 6.9 y/a, 18 td, 12 int, 86.5 rating
2007: 68.9%, 4,806 yds, 8.3 y/a, 50 td, 8 int, 117.2 rating

Patrick Mahomes' best season was his second year (his first full year), in 2018. Compare that to this year:

2018: 66.0%, 5,097 yds, 8.8 y/a, 50 td, 12 int, 113.8 rating
2020: 66.3%, 4,740 yds, 8.1 y/a, 38 td, 6 int, 108.2 rating

I mean, his 2020 was still awesome, but it's certainly not better than his 2018. He's already probably played his best football, or at least it's hard to see how he will improve much, if any, on the best football he's already played.

Brady's salary in 2007 should have been a LOT bigger than it was in 2001, and he would have deserved it, given that his production would have increased TREMENDOUSLY. He got a lot better - in part because his offensive weapons were much improved. But Mahomes? He already has elite weapons everywhere, and he's already played insanely great football. It's just not likely at all that he will improve very much, if at all, from his early years. And so a salary that's EIGHT times what he's getting paid now, for no increase in production...is going to be a challenge for KC in the years to come.
 

Euclis20

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Well, this is absurd and you should be questioned for this take. It isn't based on reasoning or actual results.

From 1993 to 2017, the Chiefs won a total of 1 playoff game. One single playoff win in well over 20 years. Now in less than 3 years, they have 5 playoff wins, a super bowl victory, and three consecutive trips to the Championship game.

What changed in 2018?

So, no, if Mahomes was on the Bears, it wouldn't look different. The Bears would be awesome. Allen Robinson would have 150 catches a year and Cole Kemet would be considered the next great tight end. Mahomes is a generational talent on a rookie deal. That is an epic advantage for the team who has him, just like it was an epic advantage for Seattle when Russ was on his rookie deal.
Mahomes can be both the best QB in the league and aided by arguably the best supporting cast. Maybe all of those Bears would be excellent, but it's not like guys like Hill and Kelce are great because of Mahomes. Both were all pros (not pro bowlers, all pros) before Mahomes was even drafted. Ditto Andy Reid. He doesn't have his ring without Mahomes, but before the latter came along I'd argue that Reid was far and away the second best HC in the league over the last 20 years.
 

johnmd20

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Mahomes can be both the best QB in the league and aided by arguably the best supporting cast. Maybe all of those Bears would be excellent, but it's not like guys like Hill and Kelce are great because of Mahomes. Both were all pros (not pro bowlers, all pros) before Mahomes was even drafted. Ditto Andy Reid. He doesn't have his ring without Mahomes, but before the latter came along I'd argue that Reid was far and away the second best HC in the league over the last 20 years.
His supporting cast is excellent. No doubt.

And with that cast, Mahomes has lost one game in like two years. And, frankly, if Dee Ford doesn't line up offside in 2018, we're talking about a threepeat for the Chiefs here. The Chiefs aren't just good, they basically don't lose! Alex Smith was fine in KC. But he did not come close to having any playoff success. He won a total of one playoff game with the same cast that Mahomes doesn't lose any games with.

And you're right about Reid. But I am certain that until he started coaching Mahomes, he didn't win a super bowl. Yeah, he came close a few times. But he could never get over the hump. That's not just a random conincidence.

Yes, Mahomes is in a good situation. He's got great pieces and a great coach. And with that, he doesn't lose. This is a Patriots level winning consistency. They are dominating the NFL right now and it seems like people are having trouble seeing it. And it is because of Mahomes.

edit - Mahomes is like Brady. They are the only two players who have played this game in the past 20 years where they were never out of a game. The playoffs last year, they were down 24 against Houston, in what was a comedic 1st quarter. Almost every QB in the league can't do anything with that, it's just a loss.(e.g Pittsburgh against Cleveland last week, it was just too much) The Chiefs ended up winning by 20 points, which is insane. Obviously the comebacks didn't end, as the Chiefs overcame double digit deficits in the next two playoff games. That is some epic stuff you don't often see in the NFL. It is Tom Brady stuff. Greatest of all time kind of stuff.
 

rodderick

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His supporting cast is excellent. No doubt.

And with that cast, Mahomes has lost one game in like two years. And, frankly, if Dee Ford doesn't line up offside in 2018, we're talking about a threepeat for the Chiefs here. The Chiefs aren't just good, they basically don't lose! Alex Smith was fine in KC. But he did not come close to having any playoff success. He won a total of one playoff game with the same cast that Mahomes doesn't lose any games with.

And you're right about Reid. But I am certain that until he started coaching Mahomes, he didn't win a super bowl. Yeah, he came close a few times. But he could never get over the hump. That's not just a random conincidence.

Yes, Mahomes is in a good situation. He's got great pieces and a great coach. And with that, he doesn't lose. This is a Patriots level winning consistency. They are dominating the NFL right now and it seems like people are having trouble seeing it. And it is because of Mahomes.
Yes, when you put a fantastic roster with great coaching around a top QB, they barely lose. We saw this with Brady twice (3 titles in 4 years, then 3 in 5). No one is saying it's a coincidence with Mahomes, but he's in a dream situation and he won't have that his whole career. You shouldn't expect that kind of winning to last a lot longer for him because history tells us it never does, even if he continues playing at this level. Russell Wilson had the highest winning percentage ever and went 6-2 in the playoffs with two Super Bowl appearances in his first three seasons and never got back there again.
 

johnmd20

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And just to be clear, I absolutely hate the Chiefs, I despise Kelce irrationally, (you should hear me when he makes a catch, it's a lot of anger) Tyreke Hill is a piece of garbage child arm breaker, and the tomahawk chop is a relic of genocide. The Chiefs suck. Their fans suck, their message board absolutely fucking sucks. Missouri sucks. Josh Hawley is a Nazi. It's a legion of suck. I do not root for the Chiefs. My wife is from Cleveland, yesterday was a true kick in the ding ding.

But Mahomes does not suck. He seems like a solid dude who also happens to be one of the best QBs of all time.
 

johnmd20

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Yes, when you put a fantastic roster with great coaching around a top QB, they barely lose. We saw this with Brady twice (3 titles in 4 years, then 3 in 5). No one is saying it's a coincidence with Mahomes, but he's in a dream situation and he won't have that his whole career. You shouldn't expect that kind of winning to last a lot longer for him because history tells us it never does, even if he continues playing at this level. Russell Wilson had the highest winning percentage ever and went 6-2 in the playoffs with two Super Bowl appearances in his first three seasons and never got back there again.
Agreed. I've been saying that the entire time. Put a QB like Mahomes on a rookie deal before his monster contract goes online and it's the ultimate benefit for a team. But there have been hundreds of QBs on rookie deals. Only a handful dominate the way the Chiefs are dominating. Seattle is a good comp and the Chiefs have already done more than Seattle did and they have this year and next year to do more.

The Chiefs are playing their 3rd straight home game in the championship round. That has never happened in the history of the NFL. Even the Patriots didn't accomplish that.
 

Euclis20

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His supporting cast is excellent. No doubt.

And with that cast, Mahomes has lost one game in like two years. And, frankly, if Dee Ford doesn't line up offside in 2018, we're talking about a threepeat for the Chiefs here. The Chiefs aren't just good, they basically don't lose! Alex Smith was fine in KC. But he did not come close to having any playoff success. He won a total of one playoff game with the same cast that Mahomes doesn't lose any games with.

And you're right about Reid. But I am certain that until he started coaching Mahomes, he didn't win a super bowl. Yeah, he came close a few times. But he could never get over the hump. That's not just a random conincidence.

Yes, Mahomes is in a good situation. He's got great pieces and a great coach. And with that, he doesn't lose. This is a Patriots level winning consistency. They are dominating the NFL right now and it seems like people are having trouble seeing it. And it is because of Mahomes.

edit - Mahomes is like Brady. They are the only two players who have played this game in the past 20 years where they were never out of a game. The playoffs last year, they were down 24 against Houston, in what was a comedic 1st quarter. Almost every QB in the league can't do anything with that, it's just a loss.(e.g Pittsburgh against Cleveland last week, it was just too much) The Chiefs ended up winning by 20 points, which is insane. Obviously the comebacks didn't end, as the Chiefs overcame double digit deficits in the next two playoff games. That is some epic stuff you don't often see in the NFL. It is Tom Brady stuff. Greatest of all time kind of stuff.
It is some Pats 03/04 level shit for sure (of course they need to finish it off to earn that crown). Mahomes is both excellent and not solely responsible for this ridiculous stretch. Saying his coach and supporting staff are a big reason behind this run isn't a knock on Mahomes, any more than it's a knock on Brady to say that Belichick is the best coach of all time (or vice versa).
 

trekfan55

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Agreed. I've been saying that the entire time. Put a QB like Mahomes on a rookie deal before his monster contract goes online and it's the ultimate benefit for a team. But there have been hundreds of QBs on rookie deals. Only a handful dominate the way the Chiefs are dominating. Seattle is a good comp and the Chiefs have already done more than Seattle did and they have this year and next year to do more.

The Chiefs are playing their 3rd straight home game in the championship round. That has never happened in the history of the NFL. Even the Patriots didn't accomplish that.
According to NFLN the Eagles under Andy Reid did. That's.... interesting.
 

johnmd20

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According to NFLN the Eagles under Andy Reid did. That's.... interesting.
I looked it up. They did in the early 2000s. They lost the first two at home and then won the third, before losing to the Pats in the Super Bowl because McNabb couldn't hold his juice.

Maybe KC is the first AFC to do it?
 

Hendu for Kutch

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It's a bit of a fluky thing though. If Baltimore wins its game last year, KC goes there for the championship game. Unless you're the #1 seed every year, there's an element of luck completely out of your control.

They were also in the very unique position of having a very good team already (11, 12, and 10 wins the previous 3 seasons) that were able to acquire an outstanding dirt cheap QB, which also happened to be a position of great need for them at the time. You won't often see the stars align like that, but when they do...

Either way, I disagree that they've accomplished more than Seattle did. Seattle won a championship and played in another Super Bowl. KC hasn't done that, at least not yet. They need a win this week and maybe even in the SB to make that claim. Don't forget that this is actually Mahomes' 4th season too. He just didn't play his first season. Though that actually kinda evens out because Wilson didn't have a 5th year on his deal since he wasn't a first rounder.
 

trekfan55

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Mahomes can be both the best QB in the league and aided by arguably the best supporting cast. Maybe all of those Bears would be excellent, but it's not like guys like Hill and Kelce are great because of Mahomes. Both were all pros (not pro bowlers, all pros) before Mahomes was even drafted. Ditto Andy Reid. He doesn't have his ring without Mahomes, but before the latter came along I'd argue that Reid was far and away the second best HC in the league over the last 20 years.
His supporting cast is excellent. No doubt.

And with that cast, Mahomes has lost one game in like two years. And, frankly, if Dee Ford doesn't line up offside in 2018, we're talking about a threepeat for the Chiefs here. The Chiefs aren't just good, they basically don't lose! Alex Smith was fine in KC. But he did not come close to having any playoff success. He won a total of one playoff game with the same cast that Mahomes doesn't lose any games with.

And you're right about Reid. But I am certain that until he started coaching Mahomes, he didn't win a super bowl. Yeah, he came close a few times. But he could never get over the hump. That's not just a random conincidence.

Yes, Mahomes is in a good situation. He's got great pieces and a great coach. And with that, he doesn't lose. This is a Patriots level winning consistency. They are dominating the NFL right now and it seems like people are having trouble seeing it. And it is because of Mahomes.

edit - Mahomes is like Brady. They are the only two players who have played this game in the past 20 years where they were never out of a game. The playoffs last year, they were down 24 against Houston, in what was a comedic 1st quarter. Almost every QB in the league can't do anything with that, it's just a loss.(e.g Pittsburgh against Cleveland last week, it was just too much) The Chiefs ended up winning by 20 points, which is insane. Obviously the comebacks didn't end, as the Chiefs overcame double digit deficits in the next two playoff games. That is some epic stuff you don't often see in the NFL. It is Tom Brady stuff. Greatest of all time kind of stuff.
Yeah the bolded part was insane last year's playoffs. I had an appointment that made me miss the 1st quarter of the KC HOU game, tuned in at 24-0 and biy what a show.

I also witnessed them coming back against the Niners in the Super Bowl, making the key plays they needed both on offense and defense (Jimmy G overthrowing a wide open Sanders helped too, and no I'm not bitter).

Yes, when you put a fantastic roster with great coaching around a top QB, they barely lose. We saw this with Brady twice (3 titles in 4 years, then 3 in 5). No one is saying it's a coincidence with Mahomes, but he's in a dream situation and he won't have that his whole career. You shouldn't expect that kind of winning to last a lot longer for him because history tells us it never does, even if he continues playing at this level. Russell Wilson had the highest winning percentage ever and went 6-2 in the playoffs with two Super Bowl appearances in his first three seasons and never got back there again.
With this I apologize if my comments at some point sounded like Mahomes is not the best QB in the league.

These 3 posts explain everything much better than I tried to, and that is that Mahomes is the best QB today by far, yet he is also surrounded by an amazing team and coaching staff. We make fun of Andy Reid's clock management but he is a great coach, one of the best, and he has an amazing coaching staff around him. His defense comes up big when they need to. So in this case it is Mahomes coming into the best possible situation. Call it the perfect storm. And BTW my comments regarding Henne were also misconstrued but it was my fault. Henne might be able to finish a game with this team, but no way they win if Henne is the starting QB on Game 1 of the season or he has to play an extended stretch.
 

BigSoxFan

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It's a bit of a fluky thing though. If Baltimore wins its game last year, KC goes there for the championship game. Unless you're the #1 seed every year, there's an element of luck completely out of your control.

They were also in the very unique position of having a very good team already (11, 12, and 10 wins the previous 3 seasons) that were able to acquire an outstanding dirt cheap QB, which also happened to be a position of great need for them at the time. You won't often see the stars align like that, but when they do...

Either way, I disagree that they've accomplished more than Seattle did. Seattle won a championship and played in another Super Bowl. KC hasn't done that, at least not yet. They need a win this week and maybe even in the SB to make that claim. Don't forget that this is actually Mahomes' 4th season too. He just didn't play his first season. Though that actually kinda evens out because Wilson didn't have a 5th year on his deal since he wasn't a first rounder.
KC also got incredibly favorable calls against the Pats in the regular season game, which had a real impact on the playoff seedings. If that Harry play is correctly called a TD, maybe Pats win and then I believe they would have hosted KC in Foxboro in the Divisional Round. KC would have been a slight favorite but we did match up better against them than most.