Dolphins Tampering thread, loss of 2 picks and Ross suspended

Harry Hooper

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I think those scenarios are two different things. It's one thing for a player to state they'd like to play for another team, it's another thing to be engaged in active, continuing conversation with another team while under contract.
Yes, and brazenly meeting with the Dolphins braintrust and not using intermediaries is another level of involvement. At the fullest extreme, there are potential "integrity of the game" issues here, as in Brady throwing a game against a 3rd team that was vying with the Dolphins in total losses for a higher draft slot.
 

Harry Hooper

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If we agree that the player isn't culpable, I don't see how the agent (who's just an extension of the player), would be. I think that the blame should lie entirely with the organization in tampering situations (unless it's true that the player's activity is somehow affecting his performance under his current contract).
Apparently the NFLPA has an official code of behavior for agents to remain in good standing.
 

BigSoxFan

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Stephen Ross is a damn idiot. How could he not know that meeting with Brady while he was under contract with NE was tampering? Was he really that arrogant?
I’ve been on a couple calls with him. He is exactly as advertised. Just a miserable dude all around.
 

Ferm Sheller

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Apparently the NFLPA has an official code of behavior for agents to remain in good standing.
I don't doubt that, and maybe Yee got his hand slapped behind the scenes. I just think the league's probably, and should be, much more concerned about tampering by organizations.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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If we agree that the player isn't culpable, I don't see how the agent (who's just an extension of the player), would be. I think that the blame should lie entirely with the organization in tampering situations (unless it's true that the player's activity is somehow affecting his performance under his current contract).
I mostly agree but this is still bumming me out. If he was an active participant and egging them on in a year when they beat us in the last game of the season to take away the bye . . . .

What can I say? I'm pissed about it. Having trouble rational-thinking my way out of being pissed at Brady. If Schefter is right that it went on for a long time that's a two way street in which Brady is a really willing participant when he should be focused on winning a championship.
 

Ralphwiggum

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I love Tom Brady and 6 Lombardis buys you a lot of leeway in my book, but man I’ll never understand how he could have possibly been that bitter and disillusioned during his last season in New England. And the fucking Dolphins of all teams. Fuck. Short of him pulling some Deshaun Watson stuff this is about as close as I can get at being angry at him. I am fully supportive of his decision to leave the Pats and sign wherever the fuck he wanted, he earned that right. But talking to a hated divisional rival while still under contract with the Pats is . . . I don’t know, it kind of sucks.
 

cornwalls@6

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I mostly agree but this is still bumming me out. If he was an active participant and egging them on in a year when they beat us in the last game of the season to take away the bye . . . .

What can I say? I'm pissed about it. Having trouble rational-thinking my way out of being pissed at Brady. If Schefter is right that it went on for a long time that's a two way street in which Brady is a really willing participant when he should be focused on winning a championship.
This is where I am as well. It seems doubtful Brady will be facing any league discipline for his role in this. But if the reporting is to be believed, he(and his agent counts as him) was having ongoing discussions about going to another team, a divisional rival, while under contract, and playing in season, for the Patriots. I think that’s a pretty shitty thing for him to have been involved in, and he deserves the criticism he is/will be receiving for it.
 

Van Everyman

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Florio thinks the punishment on the tampering stuff may have been harsher because the league didn’t want to open the gambling hornets nest:

It’s sort of amazing that the league didn’t find Ross guilty of attempted tanking, or something along those lines. That’s clearly what he was doing. And by resisting the desires of the oligarch who owns the team, Flores saved the ass of his boss while also signing his own eventual termination slip.

But the NFL couldn’t afford to punish Ross for tanking, because the NFL is still defending the wrongful discharge claim brought by Flores against the Dolphins, along with other claims against the Dolphins and other teams. (Also, in an age of legalized wagering, any suggestion of an effort to not win games would trigger legislative, administrative, and/or judicial scrutiny.) So the league, while acknowledging that Ross engaged in behavior that should have resulted in punishment, simply decided not to punish him, at least not for tanking.

It’s fair to wonder whether he was punished for tampering simply because the league felt compelled to punish him for something.
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/08/02/stephen-ross-issues-curious-flawed-statement-regarding-tuesdays-findings/
 

Bleedred

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I love Tom Brady and 6 Lombardis buys you a lot of leeway in my book, but man I’ll never understand how he could have possibly been that bitter and disillusioned during his last season in New England. And the fucking Dolphins of all teams. Fuck. Short of him pulling some Deshaun Watson stuff this is about as close as I can get at being angry at him. I am fully supportive of his decision to leave the Pats and sign wherever the fuck he wanted, he earned that right. But talking to a hated divisional rival while still under contract with the Pats is . . . I don’t know, it kind of sucks.
I don't give a fuck. Tom Brady is a weird dude, but so are the 1/1000 of 1% of professional athletes that operate at his level (Brady, Jordan, Alex Honnold, etc.). I'm sorry if he felt disrespected or whatever has led him to tweak the Patriots multiple times since his departure. But he provided 20 years of excellence at the helm of the Patriots, 20 years which brought me immense pleasure and joy as a fan all during a time when my two boys were growing up (now 20 and 23). I don't get hurt about guys seeking better business deals, departures for personality reasons or whatever. If Brady did something wrong here, then he'll pay for it (or not). I'm just thrilled to have been a Patriots fan during his reign.
 

Euclis20

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I really don't think that businesses can punish employees under contract from discussing/exploring post-contract options -- which is what we have here. The notion of Brady sharing culpability should die.
Indeed. Unless Brady's performance in 2019 was effected by this, I can't find anything to blame him for.
 

FL4WL3SS

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So while Brady was the most miserable 8-0 QB in the league he's texting the whole time with the Dolphins? Brady can go fuck off at this point. I went to probably 100 games while he was QB and loved him. The constant media blitz going on, the nonsense around retiring and now this BS, I'd be happy to never hear from him again

1000% loved him, he's the GOAT and nothing against him as a player but the last 4-5 years, including his last couple in New England, is off-putting. I'd welcome him back to Foxboro anytime, but I've had enough of him at this point.
I broke up with him as soon as he left. It smelled like raw sewage from the beginning. I'm not at all surprised by this.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Florio thinks the punishment on the tampering stuff may have been harsher because the league didn’t want to open the gambling hornets nest:


https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/08/02/stephen-ross-issues-curious-flawed-statement-regarding-tuesdays-findings/
Yeah, the league was never going to find tanking. Never. They are pretty teflon but it is an existential issue for them and they also are a defendant in a lawsuit.

In fact, only the NFL could get away with making findings by doing their own investigation into an allegation of fact that plays heavily in a lawsuit in which they are a defendant.
 

mr_smith02

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I don't doubt that, and maybe Yee got his hand slapped behind the scenes. I just think the league's probably, and should be, much more concerned about tampering by organizations.
Yes, the NFL should absolutely be more concerned about tampering by organizations but that does not mean the optics of players (ie. Brady in this case) and agents actively engaging in communications while under contract does the league and its "integrity" (laughable notion after the Watson case) a disservice at best. There's ample off-season time for any necessary communication doing it during a season, while under contract, just opens the league, teams, and players to the scrutiny we are seeing here in this thread. Maybe some tweaking of the policy should be in the offing.

IMHO, the NFL has consistently shown its bar for integrity is very low if not nonexistent.
 

joe dokes

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I really don't think that businesses can punish employees under contract from discussing/exploring post-contract options -- which is what we have here. The notion of Brady sharing culpability should die.
Under other circumstances, those who "just ask questions" might ask whether the employee disclosed -- intentionally or otherwise -- any of the inner workings of his current employer along the way. That can be problematic if the post-contract employer is a competitor. Not suggesting in any way that's what happened here. Only that, "employee x talking to a competitor about future employment with employer #2 while still under contract with employer #1" is not without potential legal peril for both the employee and employer #2.
 

tims4wins

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I believe it's literally the rule cause of how Belichick gamed the system after the Pat forfeited one of their 1st rounders. So the NFL changed it so it will always be your highest pick in a round no matter how you got the pick (your own or a trade).
It was 2008. The Pats had a top 10 pick that they had traded for and used on Mayo. They surrendered the 31st pick.
 

Ferm Sheller

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Under other circumstances, those who "just ask questions" might ask whether the employee disclosed -- intentionally or otherwise -- any of the inner workings of his current employer along the way. That can be problematic if the post-contract employer is a competitor. Not suggesting in any way that's what happened here. Only that, "employee x talking to a competitor about future employment with employer #2 while still under contract with employer #1" is not without potential legal peril for both the employee and employer #2.
Sure, if Brady had for example divulged info that's confidential to the Pats or had skipped a Pats practice to talk to the Phins, that would be wrong. And I agree that tampering discussions open the player at issue to investigations of wrongdoing, no doubt.
 

Cousin Walter

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The Pats didn't "game the system" in this case. They made a draft-day trade with the 49ers for a 2008 pick that ended up being in the top 10. Five months later they had a pick taken for Spygate and the NFL didn't like the optics of the Pats still having a top 10 pick.
 

Harry Hooper

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Indeed. Unless Brady's performance in 2019 was effected by this, I can't find anything to blame him for.
His reduced {viewed from the outside via reports and some of his comments then} level of investment in bringing the young guys on offense along in 2019 could be viewed as an aspect of his performance that season.
 

Zososoxfan

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I don't give a fuck. Tom Brady is a weird dude, but so are the 1/1000 of 1% of professional athletes that operate at his level (Brady, Jordan, Alex Honnold, etc.). I'm sorry if he felt disrespected or whatever has led him to tweak the Patriots multiple times since his departure. But he provided 20 years of excellence at the helm of the Patriots, 20 years which brought me immense pleasure and joy as a fan all during a time when my two boys were growing up (now 20 and 23). I don't get hurt about guys seeking better business deals, departures for personality reasons or whatever. If Brady did something wrong here, then he'll pay for it (or not). I'm just thrilled to have been a Patriots fan during his reign.
+1. This doesn't diminish what he did for the Pats one bit for me.

Still not as bad as Parcells doing this during Super Bowl week.
So brutal. Stuff like that has happened with NCAA coaches a bunch too IIRC. Coaches taking another NCAA job or NFL gig interview before a playoff game.
 

Euclis20

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His reduced {viewed from the outside via reports and some of his comments then} level of investment in bringing the young guys on offense along in 2019 could be viewed as an aspect of his performance that season.
Even if that's the case, it doesn't mean that it's a direct result of talking to the Dolphins, especially considering he didn't end up even going to Miami. It's with good reason that workers aren't penalized in this situation.
 

rodderick

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His reduced {viewed from the outside via reports and some of his comments then} level of investment in bringing the young guys on offense along in 2019 could be viewed as an aspect of his performance that season.
Yeah, all that great young talent they had that I'm certain inevitably flourished elsewhere.

What I'm getting from this is Tom rejected the Dolphins twice and cost them draft picks in the process. True Patriot.
 

54thMA

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I’ve been on a couple calls with him. He is exactly as advertised. Just a miserable dude all around.
You'd be miserable too if you owned the Dolphins.

None of this makes any sense to me; if Brady was in talks with Miami about going there in 2020 and signed a two year extension with an out clause for the second year in 2019 to grease the skids, then why didn't he go to Miami?
 

NortheasternPJ

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I broke up with him as soon as he left. It smelled like raw sewage from the beginning. I'm not at all surprised by this.
I know in these parts it's a hot take, but I was as well. I was frankly done with him that last season, same as Gronk. I was glad to see Gronk retire, had enough of him and Brady got close to there when he left. Everything since he left only made me feel justified.
 

sodenj5

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You'd be miserable too if you owned the Dolphins.

None of this makes any sense to me; if Brady was in talks with Miami about going there in 2020 and signed a two year extension with an out clause for the second year in 2019 to grease the skids, then why didn't he go to Miami?
Pretty sure it’s because Flores wasn’t down with it. They had arranged a meeting with Ross and Brady and Flores on Ross’s yacht. Flores showed up, realized what was happening, and peaced out because he didn’t want to be a part of tampering with Brady.
 

djbayko

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I believe it's literally the rule cause of how Belichick gamed the system after the Pat forfeited one of their 1st rounders. So the NFL changed it so it will always be your highest pick in a round no matter how you got the pick (your own or a trade).
Which makes absolutely no sense and was just a petty move by the NFL. If you trade for another pick, that's a completely different asset, which you gave up other non-1st round draft pick assets for.
 

54thMA

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Pretty sure it’s because Flores wasn’t down with it. They had arranged a meeting with Ross and Brady and Flores on Ross’s yacht. Flores showed up, realized what was happening, and peaced out because he didn’t want to be a part of tampering with Brady.
He might not have been ok with the tampering, but he was a free agent after the 2019 season, so what would be the problem?
 

sodenj5

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He might not have been ok with the tampering, but he was a free agent after the 2019 season, so what would be the problem?
I mean, if you believe the other reports, Flores wanted Watson.
 

MillarTime

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So while Brady was the most miserable 8-0 QB in the league he's texting the whole time with the Dolphins? Brady can go fuck off at this point. I went to probably 100 games while he was QB and loved him. The constant media blitz going on, the nonsense around retiring and now this BS, I'd be happy to never hear from him again

1000% loved him, he's the GOAT and nothing against him as a player but the last 4-5 years, including his last couple in New England, is off-putting. I'd welcome him back to Foxboro anytime, but I've had enough of him at this point.
Very surprised to say I feel 100% the same.
 

Pesky Pole

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So now the NFL employed reporters (RapSheet) are going after the Dolphins hard. This all seems a little too perfect as a distraction from whatever suspension happened yesterday.
 

Shaky Walton

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I love Tom Brady and 6 Lombardis buys you a lot of leeway in my book, but man I’ll never understand how he could have possibly been that bitter and disillusioned during his last season in New England. And the fucking Dolphins of all teams. Fuck. Short of him pulling some Deshaun Watson stuff this is about as close as I can get at being angry at him. I am fully supportive of his decision to leave the Pats and sign wherever the fuck he wanted, he earned that right. But talking to a hated divisional rival while still under contract with the Pats is . . . I don’t know, it kind of sucks.
This well captures my views. And that Tom said he was "miserable" when he was 8-0 and then was not particularly himself down the stretch, including pick-6s at the end of his last two games, one of them to the fucking Dolphins, is not a great look. Tom has virtually endless equity with me but this is the Eddie Haskell part of Brady in my book.
 

NortheasternPJ

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So Don Yee is also Peyton's agent? Between this whole shitshow and then the whole Jimmy G/Brady stuff where he represented both, how does Yee skate in this? Did Miami tamper with both Brady and Peyton and their agent didn't know anything about it?

People want to shit on the Patriots constantly, and they deserve some of it, but you have a divisional rival tampering with the GOAT QB in the last year of his contract, meanwhile tampering with one of the top 3-5 coaches in the league while under contract, meanwhile "joking about tanking" with your existing head coach, who you then fire, who was also an assistant coach you just hired from the team you are tampering with?

In terms of on the field issues, I can't think of a bigger scandal. Obviously the domestic abuse issues, Watson and others the NFL has massively fucked up with but this is Parcells going to the Jets x1000.
 
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Mystic Merlin

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So Don Yee is also Peyton's agent? Between this whole shitshow and then the whole Jimmy G/Brady stuff where he represented both, how does Yee skate in this? Did Miami tamper with both Brady and Peyton and their agent didn't know anything about it?
The report says Yee was involved in communications by/between Dolphins reps and Brady and Payton, respectively.
 

NortheasternPJ

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The report says Yee was involved in communications by/between Dolphins reps and Brady and Payton, respectively.
Thanks, I haven't had time to read the full report, but sounds like Don Yee needs to be put on the sidelines for awhile. I wonder how much damage he did in the Brady / Jimmy G saga, which was always speculated but now is in question.
 

bougrj1

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This well captures my views. And that Tom said he was "miserable" when he was 8-0 and then was not particularly himself down the stretch, including pick-6s at the end of his last two games, one of them to the fucking Dolphins, is not a great look. Tom has virtually endless equity with me but this is the Eddie Haskell part of Brady in my book.
I do feel like we're getting a bit hyperbolic here. The final pick six was when they needed to force something with seconds left to go in the final game. In the Dolphins game, he drove them to the leading score before the defense shat the bed. Should Tom have been flirting with the Dolphins? Probably not. Should the Patriots have given him a better contract in retrospect and not the year to year incentive laden stuff he ended up getting? Probably. In 20 years, relationships have ebbs and flows. I'll enjoy the Super Bowl wins and highlights and enjoy the fact that a division rival lost a first round pick for once and not us.
 

rodderick

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This well captures my views. And that Tom said he was "miserable" when he was 8-0 and then was not particularly himself down the stretch, including pick-6s at the end of his last two games, one of them to the fucking Dolphins, is not a great look. Tom has virtually endless equity with me but this is the Eddie Haskell part of Brady in my book.
Man, do we really need conspiracies about the "miserable" comment? The team was 8-0 but had faced no good teams and the offense stunk because it had no weapons around Brady aside from a banged up Edelman. It was clear even at 8-0 that it wasn't a championship winning team. Couple that with the fact that both Tom and the Patriots knew it was his last year there and it's easy to see why he was frustrated. It's not like they were rolling at the time of his comment.

Not to mention what he said was "I'm the most miserable 8-0 quarterback", not just that he was miserable. And yeah, when the team is winning but you feel like your side of the ball isn't contributing (and doesn't have the talent to do much more) it's a perfectly understandable sentiment.
 

NortheasternPJ

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Man, do we really need conspiracies about the "miserable" comment? The team was 8-0 but had faced no good teams and the offense stunk because it had no weapons around Brady aside from a banged up Edelman. It was clear even at 8-0 that it wasn't a championship winning team. Couple that with the fact that both Tom and the Patriots knew it was his last year there and it's easy to see why he was frustrated. It's not like they were rolling at the time of his comment.

Not to mention what he said was "I'm the most miserable 8-0 quarterback", not just that he was miserable. And yeah, when the team is winning but you feel like your side of the ball isn't contributing (and doesn't have the talent to do much more) it's a perfectly understandable sentiment.
Like when they drafted Harry in the 1st round (which you can say was a bad pick (it was) but the first time in a long time they drafted a WR in the first round, even if he was a terrible pick), Brought in Josh Gordon, Antonio Brown, then halfway through the season traded for Sanu, which reports are is the guy Brady was pushing for. It's not like they weren't trying or telling Brady to go do it himself. They made some bad personnel decisions, but they were trying. Brady loved AB enough to move him into his house in Tampa and put up that BS.

It's clear that by 2018, the end of the BB and Brady era was done. There's blame on both sides, but this report makes Brady look even worse. People still can't stand Parcells around here 25+ years ago about the Jets stuff, but the Brady story is close to the same thing.

Brady's just a different guy now. I loved him as a Patriots for 95% of it, but he's got other priorities. It's ok to get a divorce and not support what the other person does. It doesn't take away from the good times, but I'm done with Brady post 2018. Good riddance.
 

bougrj1

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It's clear that by 2018, the end of the BB and Brady era was done. There's blame on both sides, but this report makes Brady look even worse. People still can't stand Parcells around here 25+ years ago about the Jets stuff, but the Brady story is close to the same thing.
Point me to the story about Brady orchestrating his way out of town on the eve of a Super Bowl. These are just not even remotely the same thing.
 

rodderick

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Like when they drafted Harry in the 1st round (which you can say was a bad pick (it was) but the first time in a long time they drafted a WR in the first round, even if he was a terrible pick), Brought in Josh Gordon, Antonio Brown, then halfway through the season traded for Sanu, which reports are is the guy Brady was pushing for. It's not like they weren't trying or telling Brady to go do it himself. They made some bad personnel decisions, but they were trying. Brady loved AB enough to move him into his house in Tampa and put up that BS.

It's clear that by 2018, the end of the BB and Brady era was done. There's blame on both sides, but this report makes Brady look even worse. People still can't stand Parcells around here 25+ years ago about the Jets stuff, but the Brady story is close to the same thing.

Brady's just a different guy now. I loved him as a Patriots for 95% of it, but he's got other priorities. It's ok to get a divorce and not support what the other person does. It doesn't take away from the good times, but I'm done with Brady post 2018. Good riddance.
I really don't see how this has any relation to what I posted.
 

slamminsammya

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Thanks, I haven't had time to read the full report, but sounds like Don Yee needs to be put on the sidelines for awhile. I wonder how much damage he did in the Brady / Jimmy G saga, which was always speculated but now is in question.
Wasn't Yee also the one who advised Brady to destroy his phone?
 

NortheasternPJ

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I really don't see how this has any relation to what I posted.
It has everything to do with what you posted. Brady going to the national media bitching about how he’s miserable when they’re 8-0 after the team made a bunch of moves, including AB, to try to keep it going is what I didn’t like about Brady at the end. He has every right to be frustrated but he’s smart enough to know that him saying that is going to not reflect on himself but his team.

They had a ton of problems but they won by the following before losing that game: 30, 43, 16, 6, 26, 21, 33, 14. Being 8-0 and winning by double digits is rolling. Your QB coming out after that and basically stating he had no confidence isn’t great combined with him texting and planning to go divisional rival at the same time.

I know 90% of the people here will defend him to death
And he can do no wrong and that’s fine. I’m just not in that camp.

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