Dolphins Tampering thread, loss of 2 picks and Ross suspended

JM3

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It's also a good thing he specified "winning" season so no one could accuse him of tanking in the year that they no longer have their own 1st round pick.
 

Ferm Sheller

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It's also a good thing he specified "winning" season so no one could accuse him of tanking in the year that they no longer have their own 1st round pick.

I think he added that because he saw the 60-yard dime Tua dropped into Tyreek's mitts.
 

Ralphwiggum

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As noted upthread I’m somewhere in the middle on this. I’ve been a Brady fanboy for my entire adult life and I had no issues with him leaving but this story is hitting me in a place I didn’t know existed for Brady. It wasn’t like they sucked in 2019. They were defending SB champs and started out 8-0. I can buy that the working relationship had become toxic and that happens, and it is fine and nobody’s fault. But the one thing I’ve always believed about Brady is the single mindedness about winning and this seems to undercut that. I’m not 12 and Tom Brady owes me nothing. But the fact that he couldn’t or wouldn’t instruct his representatives to put the conversations off until the season was over kind of matters to me. Am I ripping the Tom Brady posters off my wall? Of course not. Does it make me re-think the way I think about my favorite athlete ever? A little bit if I am being honest.

I’m also high and drunk so YMMV but man I hate this story.
 

AlNipper49

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The simple answer is that Brady probably entertained folks asking him for meetings, they blew smoke up his ass and he got caught up in it. Under what scenario would he actually seek out the Dolphins of all people.

It doesn’t reflect positively on him but I’m guessing it wasn’t him scheming or throwing things to the ground. He was probably just unhappy where he was and considering all of his options. Probably more dumb or short-sighted than scheming.
 

InstaFace

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Tom Brady isn't coming back, but the banners he won fly forever, so here's how I'm choosing to view this event:

What I'm getting from this is Tom rejected the Dolphins twice and cost them draft picks in the process. True Patriot.
Imagine losing a 1st round pick and a 3rd round pick to not get Tom Brady.
LFG. This is entertainment, guys. Allow yourselves to be entertained. Dunk on Stephen Ross, who is a shithead even by the elite standards of NFL owners. Make one of those Chris Berman domino memes where it starts with Bill Belichick "accidentally" texting the wrong Brian, and ends with his division rival losing a first round pick to the Goodell Punishment Vortex. Post the BB Orange Juice JPG while noting that Florida's state crop is extra tangy this year.

This is as victimless a crime as any NFL brouhaha since Randy Moss mock-mooned a full stadium. Choose happiness.
 

j-man

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@j-man always has excellent conspiracy theories, I am really hoping you have a take on this!
i heard this in jan 2022 i think it did happen but when they fired flores and he did that lawsuit miami hands was tied overall as i think brady and Payton was a package deal which is funny to me because brady always wanted to be in sf which in my opinton he shouild be mad at bill walsh not anyone else but back to 2022 even if he went to miami their off wouild had been worse because they added a lot on off that with brady they wouild not been able to add most noteaby Armsteam edmodms williams t hill
 

Marciano490

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Imagine losing a 1st round pick and a 3rd round pick to not get Tom Brady.
Terrible value when you consider he only cost a 6th in the first place.

That’s a nice encapsulation of the Patriots vs Dolphins - we used a 6th rounder and got to play Brady for nearly 20 years. The Dolphins used a 1st and a 3rd on him and didn’t even get a snap.
 

jacklamabe65

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I love Tom Brady and 6 Lombardis buys you a lot of leeway in my book, but man I’ll never understand how he could have possibly been that bitter and disillusioned during his last season in New England. And the fucking Dolphins of all teams. Fuck. Short of him pulling some Deshaun Watson stuff this is about as close as I can get at being angry at him. I am fully supportive of his decision to leave the Pats and sign wherever the fuck he wanted, he earned that right. But talking to a hated divisional rival while still under contract with the Pats is . . . I don’t know, it kind of sucks.
Tom and Bill Parcells have more in common than I thought.
 

Harry Hooper

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So...the NFL is going to just watch Brady sign on with Miami at the end of this season, or will the Commish send (or already has sent) a private communication to Ross to not go there?

{Assuming Ross would dump his new head coach at Brady's request, of course.}
 
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Shaky Walton

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As noted upthread I’m somewhere in the middle on this. I’ve been a Brady fanboy for my entire adult life and I had no issues with him leaving but this story is hitting me in a place I didn’t know existed for Brady. It wasn’t like they sucked in 2019. They were defending SB champs and started out 8-0. I can buy that the working relationship had become toxic and that happens, and it is fine and nobody’s fault. But the one thing I’ve always believed about Brady is the single mindedness about winning and this seems to undercut that. I’m not 12 and Tom Brady owes me nothing. But the fact that he couldn’t or wouldn’t instruct his representatives to put the conversations off until the season was over kind of matters to me. Am I ripping the Tom Brady posters off my wall? Of course not. Does it make me re-think the way I think about my favorite athlete ever? A little bit if I am being honest.

I’m also high and drunk so YMMV but man I hate this story.
Again, this where I am. (Though I am sober now.)

Talking about your next gig before and during the season just shouldn't be done. Is it why they were not good in the second half and got waxed in the playoffs? I don't know. I do believe that, like when Parcells focused on the Jets before the Super Bowl, it could not have helped with the task at hand and possibly contributed to the results in some way.

Brady stopped being my absolute favorite when he went to the Bucs. With Orr, Bird and Ortiz to fight with, that's not hard to do. But he'll be way up on my list forever. Still, a little bit of the shine has faded for me. Emphasis on LITTLE. But it's not quite the same as it was.
 

ShaneTrot

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I am 56, so I know enough not to have heroes. All people, no matter how great they seem, have warts and are not perfect. What I think is interesting here, is that the NFL has evidence of Ross' tampering. I am guessing they got it from either Brady himself or more likely, his agent, Don Yee.

The league clearly does not want evidence of Ross paying Flores to tank. So, I am guessing because it's a he said/she said situation, they decided to tell Ross to knock it off, shut up, take this punishment, and move on. But because these rich assholes think the rules don't apply to them, he put out that statement.
 

Harry Hooper

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I am 56, so I know enough not to have heroes. All people, no matter how great they seem, have warts and are not perfect. What I think is interesting here, is that the NFL has evidence of Ross' tampering. I am guessing they got it from either Brady himself or more likely, his agent, Don Yee.

The league clearly does not want evidence of Ross paying Flores to tank. So, I am guessing because it's a he said/she said situation, they decided to tell Ross to knock it off, shut up, take this punishment, and move on. But because these rich assholes think the rules don't apply to them, he put out that statement.
There were reports that the Commish was very peeved by BB's statement released after Spygate 1, which motivated subsequent NFL discipline vs. the Pats.

Ross, of course, is an owner, so the Commish may tread more lightly from here on this one.
 
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SoxinSeattle

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Terrible value when you consider he only cost a 6th in the first place.

That’s a nice encapsulation of the Patriots vs Dolphins - we used a 6th rounder and got to play Brady for nearly 20 years. The Dolphins used a 1st and a 3rd on him and didn’t even get a snap.
This is outstanding. Well done sir.
 

rodderick

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I think the struggle I have with this whole Brady thing is how it has made it even clearer that once upon a time, Tom Brady was part of the story of this franchise and now it feels like the Pats were part of his story.

It's silly, but it does kinda hurt because he's not "our guy" anymore, he looms larger than that and he knows it too. I think this sort of tampering happens with every pending free agent every year, so I'm not gonna clutch my pearls over that, and it's absolutely not the same as Parcells talking shop with his next employer during Super Bowl prep week, but it's yet another reminder of the fact that he's become such a big figure in the sport that he felt it was okay to discuss terms with other teams in both his last season here and his second season in Tampa. There's no sense of allegiance at this point because his legacy has become its own entity, untied to any franchise, and his pursuits now are of the individual accomplishment variety. I get it, he's in a stratosphere by himself, competing only with himself so it's natural to a degree, but at the same time it sucks. I'm willing to bet I won't feel like this in 10 years, though.
 
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Mystic Merlin

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I think the struggle I have with this whole Brady thing is how it has made it even clearer that once upon a time, Tom Brady was part of the story of this franchise and now it feels like the Pats were part of his story.

It's silly, but it does kinda hurt because he's not "our guy" anymore, he looms larger than that and he knows it too. I think this sort of tampering happens with every pending free agent every year, so I'm not gonna clutch my pearls over that, and it's absolutely not the same as Parcells talking shop with his next employer during Super Bowl prep week, but it's yet another reminder of the fact that he's become such a big figure in the sport that he felt it was okay to discuss terms with other teams in both his last season here and his second season in Tampa. There's no sense of allegiance at this point because his legacy has become it's own entity, untied to any franchise, and his pursuits now are of the individual accomplishment variety. I get it, he's in a stratosphere by himself, competing only with himself so it's natural to a degree, but at the same time it sucks. I'm willing to bet I won't feel like this in 10 years, though.
Your last sentence is bingo.

With Tampa I get strong vibes that he’s in the midst of an affair in its honeymoon phase, where the team had crystallized a strong core of talent - after Licht muddled along for years - that he walked into and a self-declared short window that informed their personnel and cap management. He gets and does everything he wants - power to him, and Tampa is a nice place to live that doesn’t put him in the pressure cooker like Boston did. Something I haven’t seen discussed very much, if at all, is how favorable the Tampa media coverage is to him/the team. The Tampa ESPN and Athletic coverage, for example, is night and day from what you see in the Boston media market, which seems to be a function of the reporters and fans being grateful to go from a team of little to no consequence to one of the best in the NFL and not hiring a notable cohort of miserable bastards to cover the team. There is no Shaughnessy, Felger, Volin, Tomase, etc. It seems to be a better, healthier sports life for all involved, to be honest, and I couldn’t blame him if he’s not looking to jump back into a city like Boston, NY, etc.

Ultimately, though, he isn’t a Buc. Hell, he was entertaining the next thing during only his second season with the team.
 

rodderick

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Your last sentence is bingo.

With Tampa I get strong vibes that he’s in the midst of an affair in its honeymoon phase, where the team had crystallized a strong core of talent - after Licht muddled along for years - that he walked into and a self-declared short window that informed their personnel and cap management. He gets and does everything he wants - power to him, and Tampa is a nice place to live that doesn’t put him in the pressure cooker like Boston did. Something I haven’t seen discussed very much, if at all, is how favorable the Tampa media coverage is to him/the team. The Tampa ESPN and Athletic coverage, for example, is night and day from what you see in the Boston media market, which seems to be a function of the reporters and fans being grateful to go from a team of little to no consequence to one of the best in the NFL and not hiring a notable cohort of miserable bastards to cover the team. There is no Shaughnessy, Felger, Volin, Tomase, etc. It seems to be a better, healthier sports life for all involved, to be honest, and I couldn’t blame him if he’s not looking to jump back into a city like Boston, NY, etc.

Ultimately, though, he isn’t a Buc. Hell, he was entertaining the next thing during only his second season with the team.
This is the key, I think. Tom operates now under the premise that he's the show and wherever he goes, guys will follow and the team will have success as long as there's a good enough base to work with. When you have that mindset, it's impossible to be tied down, you'll always be looking at other opportunities and places that could potentially lead to more wins. He doesn't fear failure at all, it's all about degrees of accomplishment and padding his legacy.
 

BigSoxFan

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Your last sentence is bingo.

With Tampa I get strong vibes that he’s in the midst of an affair in its honeymoon phase, where the team had crystallized a strong core of talent - after Licht muddled along for years - that he walked into and a self-declared short window that informed their personnel and cap management. He gets and does everything he wants - power to him, and Tampa is a nice place to live that doesn’t put him in the pressure cooker like Boston did. Something I haven’t seen discussed very much, if at all, is how favorable the Tampa media coverage is to him/the team. The Tampa ESPN and Athletic coverage, for example, is night and day from what you see in the Boston media market, which seems to be a function of the reporters and fans being grateful to go from a team of little to no consequence to one of the best in the NFL and not hiring a notable cohort of miserable bastards to cover the team. There is no Shaughnessy, Felger, Volin, Tomase, etc. It seems to be a better, healthier sports life for all involved, to be honest, and I couldn’t blame him if he’s not looking to jump back into a city like Boston, NY, etc.

Ultimately, though, he isn’t a Buc. Hell, he was entertaining the next thing during only his second season with the team.
Yup. End of the day, Brady was 43 years-old making these decisions. He did everything he needed to do in NE (and more) so I really don't care how he decides to finish his career now that he's moved on. He's definitely gone Hollywood and is clearly focused on his brand but he's earned that right.

It's also absolutely hilarious that his Dolphins flirtation is helping us beyond his playing days here. I can't even get mad at him for that. Stripping the Dolphins of their 2023 first round pick is a huge deal for a team that looks to be getting close to being a real problem in the division.
 

tims4wins

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This is the key, I think. Tom operates now under the premise that he's the show and wherever he goes, guys will follow and the team will have success as long as there's a good enough base to work with. When you have that mindset, it's impossible to be tied down, you'll always be looking at other opportunities and places that could potentially lead to more wins. He doesn't fear failure at all, it's all about degrees of accomplishment and padding his legacy.
What is interesting though is that when he chose the Bucs, he didn't simply pick the place where he thought he had the best chance to win. Maybe 3 years later he is at that point, but that wasn't a huge criteria in 2019.
 

rodderick

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What is interesting though is that when he chose the Bucs, he didn't simply pick the place where he thought he had the best chance to win. Maybe 3 years later he is at that point, but that wasn't a huge criteria in 2019.
I think it was. The defense came on really strong in the second half of 2019 and the Evans/Godwin duo is tough to beat. I think he easily could have looked at that team and thought he could put them over the top, even though there were better options to win immediately like the 9ers (who reportedly didn't want him). If the main teams interested at the time were the Bucs, the Chargers, the Bears and the Dolphins, as I believe they were by what we've read/heard about that process, I'd argue he picked the right spot.
 

tims4wins

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I think it was. The defense came on really strong in the second half of 2019 and the Evans/Godwin duo is tough to beat. I think he easily could have looked at that team and thought he could put them over the top, even though there were better options to win immediately like the 9ers (who reportedly didn't want him). If the main teams interested at the time were the Bucs, the Chargers, the Bears and the Dolphins, as I believe they were by what we've read/heard about that process, I'd argue he picked the right spot.
Right clearly the Bucs were the best spot of those options (another team that seems like they didn't really want him was the Titans). Pretty sure he said on the docuseries that winning wasn't a huge priority, but he may have been blowing smoke.
 

johnmd20

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Right clearly the Bucs were the best spot of those options (another team that seems like they didn't really want him was the Titans). Pretty sure he said on the docuseries that winning wasn't a huge priority, but he may have been blowing smoke.
Everything we know about Tom Brady is that he wants to win. To pretend that winning wasn't his focus seems absurd. That has to be smoke.

He was looking at SF, too, I believe. Both SF and TB had strong defenses and solid talent across the board, with good coaches too. Tom wasn't going to the Jags.
 

Van Everyman

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I’ve held off commenting on some of these posts because I’m still kind of reconciling them with the resistance on this forum to entertain the reporting of Florio and the Sun Sentinel guy which explained in great detail how Brady was attempting to force his way to playing/ownership in Miami with Payton by retiring. This wasn’t just smoke. It was flames.

I get that we all love/loved Brady but it’s long been clear that (not very far) underneath his aw shucks demeanor is a guy who can be petty, vindictive and entitled (just watch that last episode of Man in the Arena where he cries about his dad's love for the 4,000th time -- I couldn't get through it).

But a lot of posters seemed to justify turning a blind eye by pointing to how few NFL reporters were covering the story—overlooking what a bunch of shameless access merchants they’ve become—and how logistically complicated it would be for Brady to become an owner while still playing (as if that would prevent him from trying).

At any rate, if we didn’t know it before, Brady is human, no matter how superhuman his feats on the field have seemed. It’s probably healthier for all of us to realize that now.
 

BigSoxFan

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I’ve held off commenting on some of these posts because I’m still kind of reconciling them with the resistance on this forum to entertain the reporting of Florio and the Sun Sentinel guy which explained in great detail how Brady was attempting to force his way to playing/ownership in Miami with Payton by retiring. This wasn’t just smoke. It was flames.

I get that we all love/loved Brady but it’s long been clear that (not very far) underneath his aw shucks demeanor is a guy who can be petty, vindictive and entitled (just watch that last episode of Man in the Arena where he cries about his dad's love for the 4,000th time -- I couldn't get through it).

But a lot of posters seemed to justify turning a blind eye by pointing to how few NFL reporters were covering the story—overlooking what a bunch of shameless access merchants they’ve become—and how logistically complicated it would be for Brady to become an owner while still playing (as if that would prevent him from trying).

At any rate, if we didn’t know it before, Brady is human, no matter how superhuman his feats on the field have seemed. It’s probably healthier for all of us to realize that now.
I think we've all known that Brady is a complicated dude for a while now. His Trump support, Guerrero, concussion water, willingness to overlook Antonio Brown's obviously character flaws to chase another ring, and now this tampering stuff, etc. Like any human, he has his flaws but he obviously was very successful on the field and he represented the Patriots well off of the field and did a good job of giving back to the community. So, he fulfilled any obligations we could possibly have of him (and quite more, obviously).

I personally find his new persona and social media presence to be kind of dorky and self-serving but, whatever, he can do what he wants. Not everyone can be a natural like Big Papi. Brady is clearly closer to the MJ/Tiger Woods closed-off superstar. But his time in Tampa has demonstrated that he does have a more fun loving persona that his competitive drive and media apprehension doesn't often let out.
 

Marciano490

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I’ve held off commenting on some of these posts because I’m still kind of reconciling them with the resistance on this forum to entertain the reporting of Florio and the Sun Sentinel guy which explained in great detail how Brady was attempting to force his way to playing/ownership in Miami with Payton by retiring. This wasn’t just smoke. It was flames.

I get that we all love/loved Brady but it’s long been clear that (not very far) underneath his aw shucks demeanor is a guy who can be petty, vindictive and entitled (just watch that last episode of Man in the Arena where he cries about his dad's love for the 4,000th time -- I couldn't get through it).

But a lot of posters seemed to justify turning a blind eye by pointing to how few NFL reporters were covering the story—overlooking what a bunch of shameless access merchants they’ve become—and how logistically complicated it would be for Brady to become an owner while still playing (as if that would prevent him from trying).

At any rate, if we didn’t know it before, Brady is human, no matter how superhuman his feats on the field have seemed. It’s probably healthier for all of us to realize that now.
Honestly, who would do different in his situation. He’s the greatest of all time. He’s given the Patriots everything - including a decade of price breaks. If I was the best ever at something and I could parlay that to more money and status and power by, what, moving on from an organization that’d do the same to me in a second, sign me right the fuck up.

I don’t think it’s fair to judge people for moving the same way I would, just because I don’t have the opportunity. It’s the same with those criticizing golfers for banking $100 mil in Saudi cash. Brady was trying to become the Jay Z/Diddy of the NFL. He deserves it.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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Honestly, who would do different in his situation. He’s the greatest of all time. He’s given the Patriots everything - including a decade of price breaks. If I was the best ever at something and I could parlay that to more money and status and power by, what, moving on from an organization that’d do the same to me in a second, sign me right the fuck up.

I don’t think it’s fair to judge people for moving the same way I would, just because I don’t have the opportunity. It’s the same with those criticizing golfers for banking $100 mil in Saudi cash. Brady was trying to become the Jay Z/Diddy of the NFL. He deserves it.
We will never know if he wasn't "made whole" on this deal already or somewhere down the line. He most likely made huge bank with the house carved out of the area next to Kraft's land in Brookline.
 

slamminsammya

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He deserves way more shit for the concussion water stuff than for thinking about changing teams. This particular story doesn't change my feelings about him a single bit.
 

rodderick

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Honestly, who would do different in his situation. He’s the greatest of all time. He’s given the Patriots everything - including a decade of price breaks. If I was the best ever at something and I could parlay that to more money and status and power by, what, moving on from an organization that’d do the same to me in a second, sign me right the fuck up.

I don’t think it’s fair to judge people for moving the same way I would, just because I don’t have the opportunity. It’s the same with those criticizing golfers for banking $100 mil in Saudi cash. Brady was trying to become the Jay Z/Diddy of the NFL. He deserves it.
Earlier today it dawned on me that Brady waited until he was 43 years old with 20+ seasons as a Patriot to start doing what LeBron has done since he was 25. Kinda puts it in perspective.
 

Marciano490

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We will never know if he wasn't "made whole" on this deal already or somewhere down the line. He most likely made huge bank with the house carved out of the area next to Kraft's land in Brookline.
Must’ve been a big house! Did anyone ever estimate how much Brady left on the table playing for the Pats? $20 million? $50? $100?
 

Hoya81

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Must’ve been a big house! Did anyone ever estimate how much Brady left on the table playing for the Pats? $20 million? $50? $100?
I'd put it somewhere between $30-50 million.

Brady's career earnings with the Pats from '00-'19 was about $235 million. As compared to his peers, Peyton's career earnings over roughly a similar timeframe was $248 million, Brees $269 million, Roethlisberger $267 million, Rivers $243 million and Eli $252 million. Matt Ryan and Stafford's career's have been shorter, but both have out earned Brady's time with the Pats, $267 million and $239 million respectively.

Some of this is Brady taking discounts over the years, while another big piece was almost all of those QBs were high picks and had much bigger first contracts.
Brady will probably finish up somewhere around $350 million career earnings all told, and eventually get passed by Stafford or Rodgers on the career earnings list.
 

Van Everyman

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I think we've all known that Brady is a complicated dude for a while now. His Trump support, Guerrero, concussion water, willingness to overlook Antonio Brown's obviously character flaws to chase another ring, and now this tampering stuff, etc. Like any human, he has his flaws but he obviously was very successful on the field and he represented the Patriots well off of the field and did a good job of giving back to the community. So, he fulfilled any obligations we could possibly have of him (and quite more, obviously).

I personally find his new persona and social media presence to be kind of dorky and self-serving but, whatever, he can do what he wants. Not everyone can be a natural like Big Papi. Brady is clearly closer to the MJ/Tiger Woods closed-off superstar. But his time in Tampa has demonstrated that he does have a more fun loving persona that his competitive drive and media apprehension doesn't often let out.
Honestly, who would do different in his situation. He’s the greatest of all time. He’s given the Patriots everything - including a decade of price breaks. If I was the best ever at something and I could parlay that to more money and status and power by, what, moving on from an organization that’d do the same to me in a second, sign me right the fuck up.

I don’t think it’s fair to judge people for moving the same way I would, just because I don’t have the opportunity. It’s the same with those criticizing golfers for banking $100 mil in Saudi cash. Brady was trying to become the Jay Z/Diddy of the NFL. He deserves it.
Yeah, it's not really about judging Brady's career choices that I'm flagging here -- it was the head-in-the-sand refusal to believe he could possibly make some of those choices. The Brady-retiring-from-TB-to-flee-to-Miami story was out there almost in real time. When the Flores story came to light it came out that Ross and his crony had tampered with Brady on his yacht while under contract with the Patriots. Ultimately, the story was barely given any attention by the NFL media for the same reason the report about Peyton Manning using HGH got almost no attention: because the NFL didn't want it reported. But there was enough reporting on it to know the basic facts of what went down. People just refused to believe it.

Listen, no one died. And yeah, part of the whiplash here is that Brady was a Boy Scout for 20 years before he turned into King Pimp. I get it. But it's hard to have a real conversation about these kinds of things if we are just ignoring inconvenient facts and chalking up unfavorable reports about our heroes to reporters "wanting clicks."
 

Devizier

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He deserves way more shit for the concussion water stuff than for thinking about changing teams.
Bingo. The concussion water was a big reason why I haven’t been able to warm up to/care about Brady for a number of years. The Miami stuff is just a player looking out for his interests. It may suck in the narrow view but it’s probably a good thing overall.
 
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The Brady stuff is just a bummer for fans. It’s not shocking or anything, just puts another dent in the relationship. I think for a long time Brady feared Belichick would determine his end of career fate, and he was hell bent on making sure that would not be the case. He went too far in this case. And has generally gotten a little high on his own supply in recent years.
 

singaporesoxfan

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I have zero misgivings about Brady talking to Miami during the season. The fact that it ended with Miami losing two picks is the cherry on top
 

Shelterdog

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I have zero misgivings about Brady talking to Miami during the season. The fact that it ended with Miami losing two picks is the cherry on top
The fact that it’s stopped dolphins fans from posting practice videos and boasting about how amazing their shite team is going to be this season is at least a couple of bonus sprinkles.
 

sonofgodcf

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Jul 17, 2005
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The toilet.
Bingo. The concussion water was a big reason why I haven’t been able to warm up to/care about Brady for a number of years. The Miami stuff is just a player looking out for his interests. It may suck in the narrow view but it’s probably a good thing overall.
Why is concussion water such a big deal? I get that it was bs, but it wasn't like he was out pitching it 24/7. I've literally never seen anything from him on it, except for in reporting dragging him for his endorsement. And considering the company was a Russel Wilson investment, wasn't it as much a favor to a friend as some cynical pitch (or wacky, sincerely-held belief)?

I swear, this is why we can't have nice things when people use concussion water as a reason to hate on Brady.
 
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rodderick

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Apr 24, 2009
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Why is concussion water such a big deal? I get that it was bs, but it wasn't like he was out pitching it 24/7. I've literally never seen anything from him on it, except for in reporting dragging him for his endorsement. And considering the company was a Russel Wilson investment, wasn't it as much a favor to a friend as some cynical pitch (or wacky, sincerely-held believe)?

I swear, this is why we can't have nice things when people use concussion water as a reason to hate on Brady.
Nah, Brady's thing was different. He never said anything in public or pitched a concussion recovery suplement, but he had a quote endorsing Neuro Safe in the packaging, talking about how it makes him confident he can recover from concussions faster. It was separate from Wilson's deal if I'm not mistaken. It's still really shitty and ignorant, but yeah, not like he was out there actively selling it.
 

PedrosRedGlove

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Dec 5, 2005
596
Why is concussion water such a big deal? I get that it was bs, but it wasn't like he was out pitching it 24/7. I've literally never seen anything from him on it, except for in reporting dragging him for his endorsement. And considering the company was a Russel Wilson investment, wasn't it as much a favor to a friend as some cynical pitch (or wacky, sincerely-held believe)?

I swear, this is why we can't have nice things when people use concussion water as a reason to hate on Brady.
You haven't seen anything on it because the FTC shut down NeuroSafe in 2012 because it was snake oil being marketed fraudulently. The Russell Wilson product was actually entirely different, and a few years later, but was the impetus that led reporters to dig up Brady's concussion water endorsements.

It's brought up because it's the starkest example of Brady, and moreso Guerrero, being marketing gurus out to make money, not health gurus with secret science. It was Guerrero's company and product, so Brady has more connection to it than just a minor endorsement deal.
 

sonofgodcf

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You haven't seen anything on it because the FTC shut down NeuroSafe in 2012 because it was snake oil being marketed fraudulently. The Russell Wilson product was actually entirely different, and a few years later, but was the impetus that led reporters to dig up Brady's concussion water endorsements.

It's brought up because it's the starkest example of Brady, and moreso Guerrero, being marketing gurus out to make money, not health gurus with secret science. It was Guerrero's company and product, so Brady has more connection to it than just a minor endorsement deal.
I wasn't aware of this, thanks. I'd still chalk it up more as a favor to a friend (albeit one with a dubious history) than an effort by Brady to cash in. It just surprises me how often I see it referenced here as a reason to hate on Brady (or move past him) when it was such a minor thing that never took off and most people never would have heard of. Probably due more to Toucher on 98.5 - he loves to bring it up as well.

Anyway, sorry for the hijack - but add me to the list that Brady costing the Dolphins two picks to not join is a point for, not against.
 

Archer1979

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I guess so, but why didn't he do this to the Chiefs and the Steelers instead of to a team that hasn't made it out of the Wild Card round during his career?
I can't seem to find a link on this, but Brady and Ross have a social relationship. If true, it's probably the basis for the conversations with Ross initiating the conversation. Obviously, it didn't go anywhere since Miami very well could have tried to sign him once hit hit free agency. Instead, TB went to TB. Most likely, the discussions were the impetus for Brady seeking the contract stips that he asked for with his last extension with the Pats.

But again, I'm not of the mind that the Dolphins are getting punished for tampering as much as they are for Ross's "jokes" to Flores.
 

pdaj

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Dec 15, 2002
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From Waltham to Providence
But again, I'm not of the mind that the Dolphins are getting punished for tampering as much as they are for Ross's "jokes" to Flores.
I can't disagree with this.
This situation, from a Miami perspective, really speaks to the Ross/Grier/Flores relationship breakdown, which clearly included a lack of trust.

Um, tanking happens. We know it. The media knows it. The NFL knows it.

Before "Tank for Tua," it was "Suck for Luck."

It wouldn't surprise me if the Giants tank this year. I bet the possibility was clearly discussed with Brian Daboll, which is why he received a 5-year contract.

Oh, and guess who also was given 5 years? Brian Flores.

(This makes me believe that initially sucking was part of the onboarding discussion.)

If Flores doesn't sue the NFL, none of this would have happened, despite how stupidly brazen Stephen Ross was in doing what every other organization does -- just, you know, more covertly. And without their head coach (or previous head coach) ratting them out.

For whatever reason, Flores disagreed with Ross/Grier's process for building the Dolphins into a winner. It appears as though he may have been concerned with being the "fall guy", post a 1-15 type of season? Or maybe he's just a rigid, my-way-or-the-highway type?

I think that Ross is an idiot in many ways and that Flores is equally an asshole in certain contexts. With that combination, the results are what they are.
 
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Van Everyman

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Apr 30, 2009
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For a guy who has seemingly screwed up every disciplinary action for the last 15 years, I actually think Goodell got the punishment and how he went about it here right. Tampering isn’t necessarily a high crime, but it’s definitely not a door they want to open. I think the last thing the NFL wants is for players to be negotiating with teams as a group as they do in the NBA before they are actually free agents. So a stern punishment that sends a message makes some sense here.

As has been discussed, why Goodell did not want to open up the can of worms by punishing Ross directly for the tanking stuff.

But what makes the whole thing different from Goodell’s past disciplinary actions is that there was minimal soapbox moralizing and rank hypocrisy in the punishment itself, and—surprisingly given what apparently happened here—little-to-no open feuding or naked power grabs amongst the owners. The whole process and result it produced is much more along the lines of what we expected when Paul Tagliabue and Pete Rozelle were in charge.

I have no idea what it means tho.
 

Marciano490

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Nov 4, 2007
53,202
Am I imagining it, or have there been times (perhaps in other sports), where the team with the tampered player gets compensation from the tampering team? It’s been when the player actually signs with the tamperer, but here there’s seemingly an argument that the Dolphins poisoned the well.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Honestly, who would do different in his situation. He’s the greatest of all time. He’s given the Patriots everything - including a decade of price breaks. If I was the best ever at something and I could parlay that to more money and status and power by, what, moving on from an organization that’d do the same to me in a second, sign me right the fuck up.

I don’t think it’s fair to judge people for moving the same way I would, just because I don’t have the opportunity. It’s the same with those criticizing golfers for banking $100 mil in Saudi cash. Brady was trying to become the Jay Z/Diddy of the NFL. He deserves it.
He got 6 Superbowl wins (and 9 appearances) out of his time with the Pats, so his "price breaks" were not uncompensated. I think that it is gross that his Pats legacy ended with him going through the motions in his last year while working on his next deal. He wasn't a player who needed to be negotiating his next move while he was still supposed to be fulfilling his contract terms. This doesn't change or tarnish or ruin what he did here from 2000-2018, but those don't change his 2019 bullshit either.

It's the sneakiness of it all that bothers me. I'd be less pissed right now if, after 2018, he had said "I'm done here, I want out, failing that I'm going to sit out the first 10 weeks" (or however many a player can skip without having the contract toll) and then did it. Instead he stabbed us all int he back to do something that didn't even really benefit him.