Doc Rivers fired as 76ers coach

[tims4wins]

Yeah, we knew that halftime lead wasn’t holding

I was looking at the game log (ugh), while the Heat tied it mid-3rd, the lead went back and forth for a few minutes into the 4th, then the Heat went on an 18-4 run to turn what was an 82-81 Celts lead into a 99-86 game and that was that.

 

[BigSoxFan]

I was looking at the game log (ugh), while the Heat tied it mid-3rd, the lead went back and forth for a few minutes into the 4th, then the Heat went on an 18-4 run to turn what was an 82-81 Celts lead into a 99-86 game and that was that.

I prefer that to a close affair that is largely decided by a Ron Artest 3 in the final minutes or something.

 

[Van Everyman]

I prefer that to a close affair that is largely decided by a Ron Artest 3 in the final minutes or something.

Yeah I thought we were talking about that game and was confused.

My memory of that Game 7 in 2010 was that the 4th quarter was one of the ugliest quarters of basketball I'd ever seen. Neither team seemed to want it ... until Ron Artest kind of sort of decided he did. Ugh.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Yeah I thought we were talking about that game and was confused.

My memory of that Game 7 in 2010 was that the 4th quarter was one of the ugliest quarters of basketball I'd ever seen. Neither team seemed to want it ... until Ron Artest kind of sort of decided he did. Ugh.

Yup. That was ugly basketball. Between the opponent, result, and quality of the game, it was a terrible viewing experience.

 

[JakeRae]

I recall a lot of people thinking it was a gamble at the time, but more in a "he's not actually a truly elite guy" way than a "Maybe he turns out to be the basketball version of Antonio Brown" way. Of course, those people were largely also wrong about the risk; IT was basically done, Zizic never amounted to anything and the Brooklyn pick ended up at 8 and became Collin Sexton. With perfect hindsight, the right move was probably to do a smaller move with just the pick? Like idk Jrue or something. Only then you're still left with an injured IT wanting his Brinks truck.

I think a lot of this is right. I was one of those who didn’t love the deal at the time. I didn’t think Kyrie was an elite player just very good (I was right) but didn’t expect him to be a problem. I think I liked Zivic more than I should’ve but don’t think I viewed his inclusion as a problem. I didn’t realize how done IT was but recall feeling like the deal signaled it was probably worse than I realized. I thought Crowder was much better than proved to be reasonable with hindsight.

On the other hand, I think my biggest concern at the time was the pick, which I viewed as too much to give up, and I still think that was right. At the time it was a likely top pick in a historically deep draft class. It ended up being on the lower end of expectations because the Nets overperformed, but the draft class was every bit as strong as anticipated, maybe stronger. I also think pointing to Sexton undersells the value of that pick. I didn’t think that was a good pick at the time and many others agreed. There were significantly better players still on the board. SGA was widely viewed as a better prospect, was still on the board, and is the type of player I could see Ainge picking there. Porter Jr. was in the same category, a little iffier on Ainge type, but he did sometimes take fliers on talent with injury risk. Mikal Bridges and Kevin Knox are the other two guys I think would’ve been on the Celtics list at that slot. So there was a very good chance that if the Celtics keep that pick they’d have drafted a very good long term player, although some possibility they wouldn’t have. Trading that pick for Kyrie still hurts.

 

[TripleOT]

Ainge making a promise to draft a bum, JR Giddens, with the 30th pick in 2008, with DeAndre Jordan available, was a huge mistake. Add a live bodied young big to the team for 2009-2012, with KG’s tutelage, and there is possibly a couple more banners in the rafters.

Trading the 30th pick instead of selecting Bane was another mistake that probably cost them a banner. Singe is grear at picking at 3, but bad at picking at 30.

 

[Jimbodandy]

Ainge making a promise to draft a bum, JR Giddens, with the 30th pick in 2008, with DeAndre Jordan available, was a huge mistake. Add a live bodied young big to the team for 2009-2012, with KG’s tutelage, and there is possibly a couple more banners in the rafters.

Trading the 30th pick instead of selecting Bane was another mistake that probably cost them a banner. Singe is grear at picking at 3, but bad at picking at 30.

I'll never get the obsession with guys that didn't get picked by 30. If you fucked up not picking a guy at 30, like 25 other teams fucked up not picking the guy too.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

I think a lot of this is right. I was one of those who didn’t love the deal at the time. I didn’t think Kyrie was an elite player just very good (I was right) but didn’t expect him to be a problem. I think I liked Zivic more than I should’ve but don’t think I viewed his inclusion as a problem. I didn’t realize how done IT was but recall feeling like the deal signaled it was probably worse than I realized. I thought Crowder was much better than proved to be reasonable with hindsight.

On the other hand, I think my biggest concern at the time was the pick, which I viewed as too much to give up, and I still think that was right. At the time it was a likely top pick in a historically deep draft class. It ended up being on the lower end of expectations because the Nets overperformed, but the draft class was every bit as strong as anticipated, maybe stronger. I also think pointing to Sexton undersells the value of that pick. I didn’t think that was a good pick at the time and many others agreed. There were significantly better players still on the board. SGA was widely viewed as a better prospect, was still on the board, and is the type of player I could see Ainge picking there. Porter Jr. was in the same category, a little iffier on Ainge type, but he did sometimes take fliers on talent with injury risk. Mikal Bridges and Kevin Knox are the other two guys I think would’ve been on the Celtics list at that slot. So there was a very good chance that if the Celtics keep that pick they’d have drafted a very good long term player, although some possibility they wouldn’t have. Trading that pick for Kyrie still hurts.

I don't know for sure but I'm willing to bet that Ainge made the trade for two reasons: (1) the likelihood of any pick being as good as Kyrie was pretty small and (2) he didn't need to deal with the IT contract extension drama was surely would have ensued.

Ainge put together a championship-caliber team, that's all he could do. It's too bad Kyrie turned out to be Kyrie. And its's realy too bad that Kyrie threw the pass that meant we never got to see the real Gordon Hayward.

 

[Bernie Carbohydrate]

that was the point, they seemed to think that putting Embiid in motion would be good... he doesn't have the conditioning for that, nor the quick decision-making/passing. Jokic can play like a wing and be really effective, Embiid would probably be worse... nothing wrong with how Doc uses Embiid on offense, it's built to his strengths and to keep him from getting gassed.

I agree that Embiid in motion seems like nonsense given his stamina issues, but I don't think Doc used Embiid to full effect on offense. Many times against the Celtics I was delighted to see Embiid setting up outside and taking a three early in the shot clock. He went 4-20 from deep in the series. That's 24 possessions where he wasn't overpowering one of our bigs for a layup. I know a center has to be able to shoot outside in the modern NBA, but a dominant low-post player firing from beyond arc by design seems like it is doing a favor for the opposition. His career 37% 3PT percentage is barely above the league average, and him throwing up 25 footers means no fouls, no and-1s, and fewer offensive boards.

Of course, Doc, being a players coach, might have have disliked that as well, but let Embiid do it because he wanted to keep the meal ticket happy.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I agree that Embiid in motion seems like nonsense given his stamina issues, but I don't think Doc used Embiid to full effect on offense. Many times against the Celtics I was delighted to see Embiid setting up outside and taking a three early in the shot clock. He went 4-20 from deep in the series. That's 24 possessions where he wasn't overpowering one of our bigs for a layup. I know a center has to be able to shoot outside in the modern NBA, but a dominant low-post player firing from beyond arc by design seems like it is doing a favor for the opposition. His career 37% 3PT percentage is barely above the league average, and him throwing up 25 footers means no fouls, no and-1s, and fewer offensive boards.

Of course, Doc, being a players coach, might have have disliked that as well, but let Embiid do it because he wanted to keep the meal ticket happy.

Yeah I think a lot of Embiid's weaknesses come less from coaching than from his conditioning and what he wants to do, same with most stars... I promise D'Antoni wasn't thrilled that Harden was slowing everything down in HOU, but that's what the star wants.

Most interesting thing is the leaks this week that Doc is gone because Harden was unhappy with him, and that Harden wanted the offense to revolve around him handling it more instead of running through Embiid. If that's true.... woof, Morey looks set to really screw things up there.

 

[Nick Kaufman]

Doc was destined to get canned after they lost, but to me the most damning indictment against him was publicly crapping on Simmons and throwing him to the wolves. That also, arguably, diminished his value further, so it hurt the team, too. Now, maybe Simmons was too far gone at that point to be rescued, but it seemed harsh at the time. Given Simmons' plummet, though, Morey turning a completely lost player into Harden was pure wizardry.

But most of these narratives people have are fickle and creations of the mind. If the Sixers had won game 6, the narrative would have been Embiid has taken the next step, and Doc has exorcised his demons in late series situations (at least some of them). We'd have pages upon pages on this board about how overrated Tatum is, how we have a coach who doesn't know X's and O's, and a roster that needs new faces. Hell, even on a Celtics podcast John Karalis spent almost an entire episode trashing the Sixers and their star players rather than focusing on the accomplishments of his own team.

The Sixers played well. Doc coached fine. Four minutes changed everything.

I am particularly reminded of this cartoon every time I come across an ESPN morning talk show.

 

[Jimbodandy]

Yeah I think a lot of Embiid's weaknesses come less from coaching than from his conditioning and what he wants to do, same with most stars... I promise D'Antoni wasn't thrilled that Harden was slowing everything down in HOU, but that's what the star wants.

Most interesting thing is the leaks this week that Doc is gone because Harden was unhappy with him, and that Harden wanted the offense to revolve around him handling it more instead of running through Embiid. If that's true.... woof, Morey looks set to really screw things up there.

Unless that was Doc's people floating that.

I'll always be grateful for Doc and his time here, but the man knows how to spin after getting bounced from something. What he did to Simmons publicly after The Pass at the Rim was shameful, even if facts.

 

[shawnrbu]

I was looking at the game log (ugh), while the Heat tied it mid-3rd, the lead went back and forth for a few minutes into the 4th, then the Heat went on an 18-4 run to turn what was an 82-81 Celts lead into a 99-86 game and that was that.

Chris Bosh turned into a 3 point shooter out of nowhere in the 4th Quarter. Without that happening, the game would have been close to a tossup.

 

[Nick Kaufman]

Chris Bosh was injured through most of the series. When he came back on game 7 and player well, he put them on top.

 

[the moops]

Ainge making a promise to draft a bum, JR Giddens, with the 30th pick in 2008, with DeAndre Jordan available, was a huge mistake. Add a live bodied young big to the team for 2009-2012, with KG’s tutelage, and there is possibly a couple more banners in the rafters.

Trading the 30th pick instead of selecting Bane was another mistake that probably cost them a banner. Singe is grear at picking at 3, but bad at picking at 30.

If all we can complain about is him not hitting on two different picks at the end of the first round over a 15 year stretch, I think we did pretty good.

 

[Van Everyman]

Singe

Feels about right

 

[NomarsFool]

If all we can complain about is him not hitting on two different picks at the end of the first round over a 15 year stretch, I think we did pretty good.

He had plenty of other misses in the draft we could complain about as well, but the draft isn't as easy as it looks.

 

[Nick Kaufman]

If the Celts fire Mazoulla, is he a candidate for the job?

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

Probably not

 

[Cellar-Door]

If the Celts fire Mazoulla, is he a candidate for the job?

Really doubt it since he's a bad playoff coach who just arguably got out coached by Joe in what was not exactly a chess match

 

[Auger34]

If the Celts fire Mazoulla, is he a candidate for the job?

The only coach that I would fire Mazzulla for is Nurse…and I’d have sent feelers out yesterday. If he’s interested and willing to play ball with Brad then I will personally drive Joe to the airport