nattysez said:
You're comparing a guy who's spent 10 years taking a shot of air out of 12 footballs and has to do it quickly to avoid detection
Where are you drawing that conclusion from?
nattysez said:
You're comparing a guy who's spent 10 years taking a shot of air out of 12 footballs and has to do it quickly to avoid detection
Same here, and I'm not even fully a Pats fan - half Patriots and half Packers. I'm a fan of smart football, and so I'd watch BB coach a Pop Warner game. The problem for me is that I love football, but the top leagues (NFL and NCAA) are run by repulsive organizations. I wish there was an alternative - CFL? Arena? Anything but these clowns.Jettisoned said:
I don't know about other Pats fans but I'm basically just watching because of Brady and Belichick at this point. After all this petty bullshit I'm probably done with the NFL after they both retire.
TheoShmeo said:
The Report contains nothing on Tom asking for balls to be below the limit, he has denied doing that and I have no reason to believe that he would back away from that.
So perhaps the better approach is to say the Report did not allege that Brady asked for deflation below 12.5 and reiterate that he did not in fact do so.
86spike said:
No, I'm referring to this part of that strategy idea:
"yet Wells believes that one person took 12 footballs out of a duffel bag, deflated all 12 and put them back in the duffle bag all in 100 seconds in a bathroom stall"
djbayko said:I'll disagree slightly with the others. Yes, it's frustrating to have people constantly badger you about the Patriots, especially with misinformation. However, it's more than that to me. As a fan, it does matter to me that they are respected as the great team that they are. You don't have to love them (you're not supposed to) but you should recognize their accomplishments, just as I recognize the great Bulls, Cowboys and (gulp) Yankees, Lakers teams.
Return of the Dewey said:
It just seems to me that you're letting the "haters" ruin your fun and enjoyment, which is exactly what the haters want to happen.
yupTito's Pullover said:Same here, and I'm not even fully a Pats fan - half Patriots and half Packers. I'm a fan of smart football, and so I'd watch BB coach a Pop Warner game. The problem for me is that I love football, but the top leagues (NFL and NCAA) are run by repulsive organizations. I wish there was an alternative - CFL? Arena? Anything but these clowns.
The best case scenario for me right now is that Brady and the Patriots get a fine. If that happens, I'll keep watching until they both hang 'em up. If Brady is suspended, even if the suspension is successfully appealed, then I think I'm in soxhop's "consider not watching" boat. If Brady is made to serve even one game of a suspension, then I'm definitely not watching anything other than super bowls, unless we get another 2007 undefeated fuck you blowout streak or BB starts doing crazy spiteful shit like fake punts on first and 10 from the Pats' 20.
It's not because I think I can somehow make the NFL "pay" for their idiocy. I know I'm nothing to them. I just don't need to waste 3 hours every Sunday knowing that there's a good chance the rug is eventually going to be pulled out from under the team I'm supporting. Because if something this silly is worth a suspension of even a single play, never mind 6, 8, or 16 games, what's next? Maybe towards the end of next year it'll be revealed there's some obscure rule about drainage systems that the Gillette Stadium crew accidentally violates, and Brady can't prove he didn't know about it so he's banned for the playoffs.
This is all part of the package of sports. Yes, I get riled up when there is a controversy involving my team, and I'd bet you do too. Judging by the length of this thread, we're not alone. It's not hurting my enjoyment. I'll still be watching the games next year, rooting for Tom Brady...probably even harder than before. This will only serve to strengthen our group identity as Patriots and as fans.Return of the Dewey said:
It just seems to me that you're letting the "haters" ruin your fun and enjoyment, which is exactly what the haters want to happen. I know that nothing infuriated me more in the late '90s than the fact that all the hatred that I had against the NYY only made NYY fans laugh at me.
Prodigal Sox said:Pontius Goodell should just publicly wash his hands at 345 park Avenue and ask the crowd to decide on the punishment. I'm sure the NFL could get the major networks and the industry leader to get into a bidding war for the rights. There is a long stretch in the calender bewteen now and the beginning of training camps.
DrewDawg said:
But that was dependent on the other part not being finished in time.
The point is, if one guy can handle 12 balls in 2 minutes, 5 guys handle 24 in 10 minutes.
djbayko said:I'll disagree slightly with the others. Yes, it's frustrating to have people constantly badger you about the Patriots, especially with misinformation. However, it's more than that to me. As a fan, it does matter to me that they are respected as the great team that they are. You don't have to love them (you're not supposed to) but you should recognize their accomplishments, just as I recognize the great Bulls, Cowboys and (gulp) Yankees, Lakers teams.
This isn't intended as an insult to you, but as a Jets fan you don't have to really even consider this. You'd just be happy with a championship, and would be greatful if your team cheated to reach that goal. The Patriots have reached that goal several times, and they've done so with great players, coaches, and ownership.
There is a reason why the first Giants Super Bowl was so devastating to Pats fans. It wasn't just a championship. It was immortality. If we fans didn't care what others thought about our team at all, then it would have just been another trophy.
SeanBerry said:The Jets stuff is wildly creative. Very 1918...good stuff.
But if many of you folks in the small section of people that think Brady is innocent can't even agree how he's innocent... that just doesn't lend a ton of substance towards that point.
Stitch01 said:1) Win Super Bowl 50
2) Tell Roger Goodell to go fuck himself on live television
Greg A. BedardVerified account@GregABedard
It's loyalty check time. The Patriots are keeping score, especially with the media, and they know it. Lessons of Spygate.
Because the team turned over the full records of all team phones to the investigators.djbayko said:Are you referring to the texts being on AT&T or Verizon servers? How does that help Wells' investigation?
ALiveH said:you guys with 120+ IQs are dissecting the validity of the sound bite. my overall point is it's a potentially convincing sounding sound bite that can play nationally. Remember, if the median IQ is 100, then 50% of Americans have an IQ less than 100. you need a sound bite takes 5 seconds or less to say and will convince someone with an IQ of 90.
Or, come up with a better sound bite. That's what my advice to Yee & Brady would be.
This brings up another absurdity in all of this: Are officials now going to bring in each teams balls at halftime during really cold games to ensure they get reset to the 12.5-13.5 PSI range for the second half? Can't have teams using any footballs below 12.5 right? When the officials checked the balls at halftime during the AFCCG, why did they insist on re-inflating the Patriots balls to 13.0, but leaving the Colts balls flirting with the 12.5 mark? Didn't they realize the Colts balls were likely to drop below 12.5 in the 2nd half? I'm not sure they did.Given that Brady liked the balls inflated to 12.5 psi and that most games are played in temperatures below 72 degrees it's likely that many of the Patriot's ball acquired by an opposing team via turnover would probably test below 12.5 psi. You can look at the resumes of the leagues GMs. Not many Mensa candidates in that bunch. I'm relatively certain they were not aware of the Gas Law and assumed that the Patriots were under inflating the balls. In addition, the thought would never have come to them to test their own balls as a control.
Filet-O-Fisk said:I think the Wells report is incorrect regarding standard deviation, as discussed on p. 115. They say that the Patriots balls exhibited more variability because the SD was 0.41 and 0.40 based on the measurements at halftime, while the Colts balls had SDs of 0.16 and 0.14. I think these numbers are wrong. I have SDs of 0.41 and 0.40 for the Pats balls (Prioleau and Blakeman, respectively) but I have 0.12 and 0.35 for the two readings of the Colts balls.
What am I missing? Where do the 0.16 and 0.14 SD values come from?
Here are the Colts balls:
Blakeman: 12.7, 12.75, 12.5, 12.55
Prioleau: 12.35, 12.3, 12.95, 12.15
I get SDs of 0.12 and 0.35, respectively.
This is why god invented this website.DrewDawg said:Yes. But now I can't talk sports with the guy in the office down the hall because all he says is "Cheaters! Liars!" and that sucks, because prior to this we were able to talk about football. Now that's gone and it sucks.
And next year, going to the sports bar and watching all the games? Yeah, okay. I don't want to spend hours dealing with the meatheads. Previously it was "Brady's a pretty boy!" stuff or generic "Pats suck!" but now? It's going to be nonstop shit. Fuck that. And that sucks too.
nattysez said:
Thought this was interesting.
natpastime162 said:Similar to cargo seals, why doesn't the league just put a small serialized sticker or something small and innocuous after the approval process to provide clear evidence of tampering?
djbayko said:This is all part of the package of sports. Yes, I get riled up when there is a controversy involving my team, and I'd bet you do too. Judging by the length of this thread, we're not alone. It's not hurting my enjoyment. I'll still be watching the games next year, rooting for Tom Brady...probably even harder than before. This will only serve to strengthen our group identity as Patriots and as fans.
ALiveH said:you guys with 120+ IQs are dissecting the validity of the sound bite. my overall point is it's a potentially convincing sounding sound bite that can play nationally. Remember, if the median IQ is 100, then 50% of Americans have an IQ less than 100. you need a sound bite takes 5 seconds or less to say and will convince someone with an IQ of 90.
Or, come up with a better sound bite. That's what my advice to Yee & Brady would be.
Framegate.ALiveH said:you guys with 120+ IQs are dissecting the validity of the sound bite. my overall point is it's a potentially convincing sounding sound bite that can play nationally. Remember, if the median IQ is 100, then 50% of Americans have an IQ less than 100. you need a sound bite takes 5 seconds or less to say and will convince someone with an IQ of 90.
Or, come up with a better sound bite. That's what my advice to Yee & Brady would be.
corrext answer is Cthulhu Jesus.( . ) ( . ) and (_!_) said:My heart says he should go to war on the back of a dinosaur like Reagan
DrewDawg said:
Yes. But now I can't talk sports with the guy in the office down the hall because all he says is "Cheaters! Liars!" and that sucks, because prior to this we were able to talk about football. Now that's gone and it sucks.
And next year, going to the sports bar and watching all the games? Yeah, okay. I don't want to spend hours dealing with the meatheads. Previously it was "Brady's a pretty boy!" stuff or generic "Pats suck!" but now? It's going to be nonstop shit. Fuck that. And that sucks too.
( . ) ( . ) and (_!_) said:
This is a big part of this that hasn't really been discussed. The report is fairly easily disproved by looking at the "science" with a critical eye. However, that would take a lot of explaining about math, science, how to conduct a test, etc... The population of the United States on average reads at the 7th grade level (actually higher then I thought it would be).
The NFL has to find the Patriots/Tom guilty. The only other alternative is explaining a nuanced and complicated equation to the masses of people out there that would either immediately tune it out or not understand it to begin with and then assume the league is covering for Kraft, Tom and the Pats.. I'm sorry if this sounds elitist or if this comes off as me saying "We smart, everyone else stupid", but expecting the masses to understand why the temperature is a viable and likely explanation for the whole thing is just not a reasonable or possible option.
The NFL can't leave this open ended and they have no means of actually explaining the truth. They took the only option they have on the table. I have no idea how Tom fights to make America understand science.
The NFLPA would conduct a scorched earth war if they tried. You can't really defend a child abuser in America in 2015. Someone that may have been vaguely aware of a picayune rule violation that other active QBs have bragged about committing (and some that have broken it unawares, like Luck and his preference for balls that have been broken in in game conditions)? Well, you can go to war for guys like that.DavidTai said:Given the circumstances, wouldn't they pull the same trick they did with Adrian Peterson and basically drag out the suspension review till the end of the season?
I think sample SD would be larger because you divide by N-1 as opposed to N.MuppetAsteriskTalk said:
Are they using the sample SD formula for the Colts balls (since they don't have all of them) and the population SD for the Pats balls? I forget how the formula differs but it is a little different IIRC.
( . ) ( . ) and (_!_) said:
This is a big part of this that hasn't really been discussed. The report is fairly easily disproved by looking at the "science" with a critical eye. However, that would take a lot of explaining about math, science, how to conduct a test, etc... The population of the United States on average reads at the 7th grade level (actually higher then I thought it would be).
The NFL has to find the Patriots/Tom guilty. The only other alternative is explaining a nuanced and complicated equation to the masses of people out there that would either immediately tune it out or not understand it to begin with and then assume the league is covering for Kraft, Tom and the Pats.. I'm sorry if this sounds elitist or if this comes off as me saying "We smart, everyone else stupid", but expecting the masses to understand why the temperature is a viable and likely explanation for the whole thing is just not a reasonable or possible option.
The NFL can't leave this open ended and they have no means of actually explaining the truth. They took the only option they have on the table. I have no idea how Tom fights to make America understand science.
nighthob said:This is why god invented this website.
Nah, just email them the link to their favourite team. Or suck the fun out of their day by agreeing that cheaters should be punished and feigning outrage over the one time their team got caught and was allowed to skate...DrewDawg said:Yeah, I've seen it. But a back and forth about cheating isn't the ideal way to spend the time.
Ralphwiggum said:
Seriously? You believe that the NFL had to find the Pats/Tom "guilty' because the alternative would be to try to explain some really hard science stuff to stupid Americans?
My advice some months ago was to channel your inner Raider fan. It's high reward being a Pats fan; it's also high maintenance.DrewDawg said:
Yes. But now I can't talk sports with the guy in the office down the hall because all he says is "Cheaters! Liars!" and that sucks, because prior to this we were able to talk about football. Now that's gone and it sucks.
And next year, going to the sports bar and watching all the games? Yeah, okay. I don't want to spend hours dealing with the meatheads. Previously it was "Brady's a pretty boy!" stuff or generic "Pats suck!" but now? It's going to be nonstop shit. Fuck that. And that sucks too.
I believe that Tom never told anyone to get the balls below 12.5. But of course, if I was advising Tom, I would ask him to confirm that and if there was anything out there that could bite him in the ass. When I wrote my post above, I was assuming the answer to that is "Confirmed and Nothing to Bite Me in the Ass."86spike said:
And if you're going that direction you (as advisor per the subject of this thread) need to know for sure that there is not skeleton in the closet, no matter how hidden, that might contradict those claims, right?
I think we'll get some interesting insight into whether or not Team Brady is 100% sure he never asked for or was involved with ball tampering post-ref-inspection once the punishment is handed down. The wording used for whatever reaction they have will be telling, IMO.
( . ) ( . ) and (_!_) said:
I think it certainly factored into the decision. It's not hard to imagine what the fallout or comments would be if they had used science to conclude that there was a high probability that temperature explains the whole thing. Many people would conclude that the NFL was sweeping it under the rug because Kraft and Goodell are close. No matter how good the science is, it would never be 100% obvious that nothing dubious happened or people would just tune it out.. I don't think that point is really up for debate.
The NFL when weighing their options surely considered that and what the PR effect would be if people think they are "covering" for one franchise. I don't think this is a controversial stance.
Filet-O-Fisk said:I think sample SD would be larger because you divide by N-1 as opposed to N.
The language in this report is so convoluted, and the locations of methodological descriptions are so vague it's hard to figure out what they did. It doesn't help that there is wide variability in where things are explained, sometimes in footnotes, sometimes in text, sometimes in a figure or table legend.
Interesting that there is no conflict of interest statement anywhere in this report. I don't know if the investigators were biased in favor of not embarrassing the NFL, but it really should be stated plainly for everyone to see that this report was paid for by the NFL
soxhop411 said:
ProFootballTalk @ProFootballTalk 51s51 seconds ago
My guess on Brady suspension: Four games for the violation, plus something more for the refusal to fully cooperate with the investigation.
J.McG said:Former Patriot and current Jets supporter, Damien Woody, apparently spent his day in Bristol selling the quarterback and coach that help him win 2 Super Bowl rings down the river:
https://twitter.com/ProFootballTalk/status/596772760061353984 https://twitter.com/ESPNNFL/status/596736526257627136
Ditto.notfar said:This makes me hate about 90% of the people in the world.