I'm holding on to the theory that the NFL is "angry" and "distraught" because the crew failed to check the balls.
Except the punishment would not fit the crime, at least based on what's been reported. The team would get fined, Belichick would get fined. Potentially loss of draft picks. But the NFL would have a huge circus on its hands if it suspended Belichick for something that nearly everyone outside of Wilbon agrees is a minor technical rule violation.genoasalami said:
The coach would be the fall guy ...as I said...if the league determines that someone deliberately tampered with the balls for a competitive edge then it is not going to be the ball boy..or the equipment guy who is taking the hit....it will be the coach...there is no way that Goodell is presenting BB and Kraft a SuperBowl trophy two weeks after the Pats knowingly tampered with game balls...no way...the coach will take the hit ...this will not be ignored until after the season.
djbayko said:
Of course the implication is that the balls are to be tested by the officials. This action is referenced 3 different times in the rule. There is no doubt that the third reference calls for the balls to be tested. Interpreting the other phrasings differently is silly. The officials are there to make sure the game is played within the correct boundaries.
"make 12 primary balls available for testing by the Referee"
"make 12 backup balls available for testing"
"may bring 12 backup balls to be tested"
I doubt the league would be "distraught" if all the balls in the game for both teams were underinflated.twibnotes said:I keep telling myself that none of this matters until we hear about the colts balls
However, if they then incorporate "the next man up" philosophy and Josh leads a galvanized team to a victory, it would actually put a bow on everything they stand for.Laser Show said:Nevermind I'm actually nervous about this. Nervous that Goodell goes "hmmm Belichick Super Bowl suspension sounds right"
It absolutely is in the realm of possibility.Peak Oil Can Boyd said:Lemme just ask this: if it turns out the balls were all inflated to feel, and not PSI measurement, and then referees inspected the balls by feel, and not PSI measurement, and then everything went down as it sounds after the interception, do you still feel like there was something really calculated and nefarious going on? Because that's absolutely in the realm of possibility.
This assumes the distraught story is true, but I hear you.DennyDoyle'sBoil said:I doubt the league would be "distraught" if all the balls in the game for both teams were underinflated.
To me, the Patriots' explanation kind of matters. If the failure was simply that they didn't check the balls to make sure they were compliant, that doesn't bother me so much. Like if they just pull them out of the box, or a guy pumps them to what feels ok and they let the refs grouse about it if it's a problem, that doesn't bug me too much. If they instead deliberately manipulated them to a known out of compliance softness, that bothers me a bit more. And if the balls changed somehow between when they were made available for inspection and when the game began, that would be really bad.
I really hope whatever the explanation, the Patriots give a full, complete an honest answer. I kind of feel that's important, wherever that answer takes them.
BroodsSexton said:
I think we just disagree on how to construe the rule. As I read it, the team is obligated to make the balls available for testing. The referee might test them all. He might test some. He might not test any. He might give them a good squeeze to see if they raise any doubt in his mind, and then decide to test them. Or he might pass them, and then when the Colts raise a challenge, he might then test them outdoors, in which case the pressure might be even a little bit lower, and replace them. As I said, I think the likely point here is that the Pats took as much of an edge as they thought they could get away with. It turned out to be too much. Not a big deal in the overall scheme of things, but a rule violation, and the kind of rule violation that seems mendacious to the general public.
Live by the evil genius creed, die by the evil genius creed. It looks worse -- even if basically innocent -- because the Pats are known to be thinking strategically around the rules.
“Got the game balls yet?” Mackie says to the locker-room attendant, and as if on cue an orange bag of 24 game balls arrives from a Bears equipment man. Minutes later the Ravens’ bag of 24 shows up. Usually it’s 12 per team, but with the threat of bad weather each team conditioned 24 balls during the week—the Chicago balls will be used when the Bears are on offense, Baltimore’s when the Ravens have the ball—and now Mackie, Waggoner and Paganelli go to work to get the balls prepared. One by one, as if on an assembly line, Mackie checks with a pressure gauge to see if the balls are filled to 12.5 to 13.5 pounds per square inch of pressure. Those that aren’t get taken to the bathroom. There Paganelli uses an electric pump to fill up the balls, Mackie checks the pressure, and Waggoner puts the good ones in the sink, until all are perfect. Then Waggoner marks each by silver Sharpie with an “L” below the NFL shield, Steratore’s branding of each ball so they’re not confused with other balls found on the sidelines. The “L” is in honor of Steratore’s fiancée.
SoxinSeattle said:All valid and true and if in a court of law this list would be useful. In the real world's court of opinion no one will care. I am sick to my stomach over this. It's probably bullshit but the Pat's needed to protect themselves from bullshit after everything they have been through and accused of. I will now drink more than previously planned. Fuck.
lexrageorge said:Each team provides 12; home team provides 12 backup balls as well. Road team can provide another 12 backup balls in the event of an outdoor game.
Was just about to add this very sentiment.jacklamabe65 said:However, if they then incorporate "the next man up" philosophy and Josh leads a galvanized team to a victory, it would actually put a bow on everything they stand for.
Freddy Linn said:
This doesn't jive with the embedded Peter King (I suppose different crews could treat it differently):
Except, everything I've heard has said that the ball attendants mentioned at the end of Rule 1 are home team employees. So, the home team could simply instruct the attendant working their sideline to tweak the ballsRedOctober3829 said:He's wrong. They never go back to the teams before the game. What would the point of testing them if the teams get them back and could deflate them before the game?
Here's the rule
https://twitter.com/markdanielspj/status/557767682830123008
link to tweet
Peak Oil Can Boyd said:Lemme just ask this: if it turns out the balls were all inflated to feel, and not PSI measurement, and then referees inspected the balls by feel, and not PSI measurement, and then everything went down as it sounds after the interception, do you still feel like there was something really calculated and nefarious going on? Because that's absolutely in the realm of possibility.
It's in the realm of possibility but highly unlikelyNightslyr said:Except, everything I've heard has said that the ball attendants mentioned at the end of Rule 1 are home team employees. So, the home team could simply instruct the attendant working their sideline to tweak the balls
If you want to find out just how rabid other fans get in hating the Pats, just look at the shit Gano's taking for those tweets. Seriously, I am thoroughly gleeful how angry they are.RedOctober3829 said:https://twitter.com/120sports/status/557764942783610880
I'm wondering if this is headed in a slightly different direction – ie, "we inflated them the way Tom and Steve like them like we always do and figured the refs would tell us if they didn't pass inspection."Peak Oil Can Boyd said:Lemme just ask this: if it turns out the balls were all inflated to feel, and not PSI measurement, and then referees inspected the balls by feel, and not PSI measurement, and then everything went down as it sounds after the interception, do you still feel like there was something really calculated and nefarious going on? Because that's absolutely in the realm of possibility.
The guy who got kicked out of a real golf tournament?aksoxfan said:Jerry Rice called Pats cheaters.
RedOctober3829 said:It's in the realm of possibility but highly unlikely
Nightslyr said:Except, everything I've heard has said that the ball attendants mentioned at the end of Rule 1 are home team employees. So, the home team could simply instruct the attendant working their sideline to tweak the balls
It was a lot more than "not knowing". Goodell felt the Saints coaches were deflecting the investigation in an attempt to cover up the violations. It was also a player safety issue, which is a bit more serious than deflated balls.Three10toLeft said:This is the same commish that suspended Sean Peyton a year for "Not knowing" about an alleged bounty scheme.
I wouldn't be shocked to see him do anything drastic in terms of suspending Belichick for the Super Bowl. Especially if it would buy the man some goodwill from NFL fans, considering how much the Patriots are reviled by most fans and media members of the league
I'm not sure why the other poster said that, but it still just seems so stupid to willingly and knowingly deflate the balls after the inspection. High risk, low return, all that jazz. There's also the practicalities involved. Not impossible, but seems highly implausible. Feel free to call me in denial.BroodsSexton said:
Out of curiosity, why do you say that?
Jerry Rice can kiss the fattest part of my ass.aksoxfan said:Jerry Rice called Pats cheaters.
But I'll pass judgement until after I hear from Don Shula.aksoxfan said:Jerry Rice called Pats cheaters.
Can't argue with a scientist. Love the post.soxfanSJCA said:
I have had the good sense and fortune to stay in my SOSH/Football Central bubble since Sunday- but what is leaking in from the outside media in is beyond disturbing.
I am a scientist, so the answers to the questions I posed earlier are how competent technical people would approach eliminating procedural issues before tossing accusations.
If there was nefarious actions to gain competitive advantage then so be it. I still have not seen NFL ball inflation specifications, there needs to be a spec to enforce and i have not seen anyone post 12 PSI +/- 1 PSI (for example) and the testing conditions required to meet that spec. Testing with a needle valve can easily be a destructive test (pssssssssss....)
One thing that is for sure, the rest of the league is pretty sick of having the shit kicked out of them by BB & TB and is resultantly watching amusingly (or worse, fanning the flames).
The pain i am feeling now (and i am feeling it) is that of every reporter that ever asked an insanely stupid question to BB and got the deserving response- these terrible hacks have computers and internet connections and are making me feel the pain of their stupidity, the horror...
This is all one big free for all transference of pain from all the owners, coaches, and fans of all the losing teams with AFC and SB hopes and dreams crushed under BB's GOAT run.
It must have been terrible to be them, probably like how i felt being a Sox fan pre-pedro, or a Pats fan pre BB/TB.
My god, Slappy Mcbluelips got far less shit for hitting the ball out of saturn balls glove... Sheesh
GlenMorangie said:The same Jerry Rice who played for a 49ers team that was repeatedly accused of coaching and using illegal leg whips? THAT Jerry Rice?
Van Everyman said:I'm wondering if this is headed in a slightly different direction – ie, "we inflated them the way Tom and Steve like them like we always do and figured the refs would tell us if they didn't pass inspection."
Except Rodgers's quotes can easily be understood as implying "calculation."Peak Oil Can Boyd said:
Agreed. It won't satisfy a huge portion of the haters, but, combined with Rogers' comments, puts it into "honest mistake" territory. The difference is negligence vs. calculation; a $25k fine for former so we can all move the fuck on seems appropriate.
I'm sure his nursing home has strict visiting hours.aksoxfan said:But I'll pass judgement until after I hear from Don Shula.
Because no equipment guy worth anything would let anybody else touch the footballs once the QB is satisfied with them. By satisfied, I mean rubbed up plus hardness/softness of them. That being said, most QBs aren't that neurotic and won't know the difference between say 11.5 and 12.5 psi. It takes a sizable psi swing to say that a ball needs air IMO.BroodsSexton said:
Out of curiosity, why do you say that?
Ther's a big difference between underinflating the balls before the refs see them and taking air out after the refs have passed them.BroodsSexton said:
Out of curiosity, why do you say that?
I have been an nfl equipment intern so I know how this works. I said what you are referring to.riboflav said:
It was mentioned upthread that they're NFL employees but from the local area so probably the same ball boys for every home game. God, why has no one on SoSH been an NFL ball boy?
RedOctober3829 said:Because no equipment guy worth anything would let anybody else touch the footballs once the QB is satisfied with them. By satisfied, I mean rubbed up plus hardness/softness of them. That being said, most QBs aren't that neurotic and won't know the difference between say 11.5 and 12.5 psi. It takes a sizable psi swing to say that a ball needs air IMO.
Ball boys who are Joe Blow off the street aren't going to be doctoring balls by themselves is why I say it. But the chance that an elaborate operation is in place is so small I'm not going to dignify it with much thought.
pappymojo said:I still think this is a nothing story and that Patriots reaction will be something along the lines of 'we gave you the balls for testing prior to the game. You approved them for play. We played the game. You tested them again during the game and reported them as under inflated. We have no knowledge of why the results were different the second time around and we take no responsibility for any discrepancies. Perhaps it was impacted by the weather. We dont know. We just play the game.'
Most of this thread's griping about the handling of this story has been about the media and the NFL itself, for good reason, but the Pats PR people have to step up now. I mean, I get that Belichick doesn't like to talk to the media and if Kraft's lack of PR response to Spygate is any indication maybe he just doesn't care either, but if Belichick ends up having to waste valuable prep time dealing with the investigation (as he did with Spygate) because the NFL feels the need to respond to a badly-handled media storm, that's partly on the Pats. We can all say that this should really be a tiny speck of a story - and it should, even if the infraction itself is disappointing - but putting it in the right context requires work on the Pats' part.DennyDoyle'sBoil said:I doubt the league would be "distraught" if all the balls in the game for both teams were underinflated.
To me, the Patriots' explanation kind of matters. If the failure was simply that they didn't check the balls to make sure they were compliant, that doesn't bother me so much. Like if they just pull them out of the box, or a guy pumps them to what feels ok and they let the refs grouse about it if it's a problem, that doesn't bug me too much. If they instead deliberately manipulated them to a known out of compliance softness, that bothers me a bit more. And if the balls changed somehow between when they were made available for inspection and when the game began, that would be really bad.
I really hope whatever the explanation, the Patriots give a full, complete an honest answer. I kind of feel that's important, wherever that answer takes them.
With BB wearing a fake mustache in the front row a la bobby VVan Everyman said:Not gonna lie: there is a small piece of me that wants Goodell to do something like totally overreact and suspend Belichick for the SB, thus turning the story into a referendum on Goodell's leadership – and possibly teeing up McDaniels for the pinch hit win.
RedOctober3829 said:I have been an nfl equipment intern so I know how this works. I said what you are referring to.