Damon Huard on WEEI saying he did his own little experiment today and he thought that balls inflated at 11 psi felt just like they should. Couldn't tell the difference and he is an ex QB.
#DFG: Canceling the Noise
- Thread starter nattysez
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The balls have to be made available for testing.snowmanny said:
There is a story that Peter King did when he trailed a referee for a day and that guy did test each ball and they made it seem like that was SOP.
It is unclear to my knowledge if all these balls were tested with a gauge.
snowmanny said:
What's not to understand? The media and fans are out for Patriots blood and the stampede got started. All it takes is a loud noise.
Yes but didn't we hear some were at 10.5, and that's all the difference in the world. Kidding.scotian1 said:
So, I'm trying to wrap my mind around everything that has happened. Based upon all the "sources" and the press conferences this is what I've put together. If I have something wrong, please tell me, because I want to have it right.
1. Tom Brady has the equipment guy fill up the footballs to how he likes them, the same process as done by every single QB in the league.
2. The balls are handed off to the officials before the game. There is a technical guildline for exact PSI, but it's such a minor issue that the officials never measure. They just give it a good squeeze and if it feels fine they use it for the game.
3. Ravens head coach Jim Harbaugh, as per his norm against every opponent he loses too, acts petulant after being defeated by the Patriots and searches for any and all reasons as to why he lost or how he can 'get back' at the team who defeated him. He knows that Brady likes his footballs a little softer, so one of the things he does is tell Colts head coach Chuck Pagano to look out for it during the next game. This is in addition to complaining about perfectly legal formations and despite the fact that he knows every QB has their own slight preferences to how their footballs are handled.
4. After the Colts are defeated someone in their organization, maybe intentionally, maybe just to blow off steam, complains to the Indianapolis Star reporter that Brady's football was 'deflated'. The reporter runs with the story, and it is picked up by the national media, each of whom adds their own little piece to it such as "cheating," "loss of draft picks," and "possible suspension." The NFL is forced to look into it because of the outcry.
5. The Patriots wake up Monday morning to see the news, despite the fact that they prepared their footballs the same way they have done every game they've ever played, which is the same thing every team does for every game they've played.
6. The NFL doesn't want to admit they don't take the PSI rule especially seriously, that it is more of a guideline, so they or the refs claim it was checked and the balls weren't properly inflated.
7. The media firestorm continues mostly because it is the hated New England Patriots involved in the discussion, with the complete non-issue being treated like it's an indictment on the entire league. Pressure is put on Goodell, who has had a terrible year dealing with actual horrible issues in the league such as drug abuse, child abuse, and domestic violence to "make an example" of the Patriots. It remains to be seen what he will ultimately decide.
Basically, the Patriots "cheated" because they estimated a guideline and did what every always does and the NFL previously cared so little about such a minor thing that they don't always check. But, just like if you go 1 mph over the speed limit, its technically breaking a law and if people don't like you you're going to be punished for it.
1. Tom Brady has the equipment guy fill up the footballs to how he likes them, the same process as done by every single QB in the league.
2. The balls are handed off to the officials before the game. There is a technical guildline for exact PSI, but it's such a minor issue that the officials never measure. They just give it a good squeeze and if it feels fine they use it for the game.
3. Ravens head coach Jim Harbaugh, as per his norm against every opponent he loses too, acts petulant after being defeated by the Patriots and searches for any and all reasons as to why he lost or how he can 'get back' at the team who defeated him. He knows that Brady likes his footballs a little softer, so one of the things he does is tell Colts head coach Chuck Pagano to look out for it during the next game. This is in addition to complaining about perfectly legal formations and despite the fact that he knows every QB has their own slight preferences to how their footballs are handled.
4. After the Colts are defeated someone in their organization, maybe intentionally, maybe just to blow off steam, complains to the Indianapolis Star reporter that Brady's football was 'deflated'. The reporter runs with the story, and it is picked up by the national media, each of whom adds their own little piece to it such as "cheating," "loss of draft picks," and "possible suspension." The NFL is forced to look into it because of the outcry.
5. The Patriots wake up Monday morning to see the news, despite the fact that they prepared their footballs the same way they have done every game they've ever played, which is the same thing every team does for every game they've played.
6. The NFL doesn't want to admit they don't take the PSI rule especially seriously, that it is more of a guideline, so they or the refs claim it was checked and the balls weren't properly inflated.
7. The media firestorm continues mostly because it is the hated New England Patriots involved in the discussion, with the complete non-issue being treated like it's an indictment on the entire league. Pressure is put on Goodell, who has had a terrible year dealing with actual horrible issues in the league such as drug abuse, child abuse, and domestic violence to "make an example" of the Patriots. It remains to be seen what he will ultimately decide.
Basically, the Patriots "cheated" because they estimated a guideline and did what every always does and the NFL previously cared so little about such a minor thing that they don't always check. But, just like if you go 1 mph over the speed limit, its technically breaking a law and if people don't like you you're going to be punished for it.
drleather2001 said:
Which kind of gets us back to why does the PSI actually matter, if at all in this range?
Obviously, the league officials involved in the investigation were so "distraught" that they forgot to talk to the QB that actually, you know, uses the balls.
The idea that someone being covered on their process by a reporter might be extra careful when the reporter is there to dot every I and cross every T, then act like it's standard operating procedure might, just might, not be that farfetchedByrdbrain said:
He said baseball players notice when their bat doesn't weigh the right amount and Basketball players notice when the rim is six inches high so how can he not notice it but the Colts did? Brady said he just gets the ball and throws it, he doesn't squeeze it like the Colts do.Nightslyr said:
Once again, can anyone explain to me why these limits even exist when teams are allowed to bring their own balls? If I want to play with a 4.5 psi football, who is hurt by that?
drleather2001 said:
Another theory. The refs lied when first asked if they checked them all and now the NFL is trying to figure what to do. [This is why they can't show tampering--you could argue that the ball went from 12.5-10.5 because of tampering just because it's too much of a drop even if you're not sure how the tampering occurred, but if you've got no baseline how do you show anything?]
snowmanny said:
If they tested more footballs at halftime in more games (especially after Thanksgiving), they'd likely find many balls under the 12.5 spec. We have no baseline.
Shelterdog said:
This actually makes sense, and explains why they haven't talked to Brady - they don't have their own story in order yet.
Someone told me the refs test the balls hours before the games, then they go back into the team's possession, leaving time for tampering. True? Source?
H78 said:
So? Aren't QBs already allowed to scrub, rub and prep the balls to their liking? If Rodgers has huge hands and likes the ball with 15 psi, let him, if Matt Barkley wants 8.5, go ahead. I fail to see what's the problem here, if everyone has the option, there's no competitive advantage to be gained.
Yes. Because Ron Borges has been waiting for this for 15 years because he hates Belichick and the Pats.Nightslyr said:
This is so dumb.
This is so dumb.
This is so dumb.
Is it likely the Patriots cheated? Yes. Have they cheated before? Yes. Does that mean that you send them to jail for jaywalking just because they have a prior criminal record? No. Fine them and move on.
This is dumb.
This is dumb.
This is dumb.
This is so dumb.
This is so dumb.
Is it likely the Patriots cheated? Yes. Have they cheated before? Yes. Does that mean that you send them to jail for jaywalking just because they have a prior criminal record? No. Fine them and move on.
This is dumb.
This is dumb.
This is dumb.
I thought Kornheiser and Wilbon on PTI actually had the psychology of this right, even if I didn't agree with everything they said. Paraphrasing and cleaning it up a little with my own gloss, I think the point was that when you watch Belichick and Brady, it's hard to simply say, in the abstract, "he's lying." But when you look at the entire situation, if Mort is correct that there was a 2 lb. psi drop in the balls, then the organization somewhere is being dishonest. Since Brady went second, and since that's about the last the public is going to hear from the organization, it must be "Brady's lying."
Now, the "if Mort is correct" thing is important. And by that, I'm wrapping in an awful lot -- if he's correct that there was a 2 lb. drop, if things were properly measured, if we're starting from the right starting point, if the refs did their jobs, etc. and ad nauseam. But, I do think in terms of the reaction, that's kind of where things stand.
The bottom line is that what we need are facts. We have none. When were the balls measured, if they were. What happened next. Where did they go. What was the inflation at halftime. Were all 11 the same?
An entire week has now sprung from a single 140 word tweet.
Now, the "if Mort is correct" thing is important. And by that, I'm wrapping in an awful lot -- if he's correct that there was a 2 lb. drop, if things were properly measured, if we're starting from the right starting point, if the refs did their jobs, etc. and ad nauseam. But, I do think in terms of the reaction, that's kind of where things stand.
The bottom line is that what we need are facts. We have none. When were the balls measured, if they were. What happened next. Where did they go. What was the inflation at halftime. Were all 11 the same?
An entire week has now sprung from a single 140 word tweet.
Matt Barkley's receivers will have an easier time catching the ball than Aaron Rodgers' receivers would. Inflating ABOVE 13.5 doesn't seem to offer any advantage. At least that's the argument.rodderick said:
With that said I agree with you. It needs to be consistent both ways no matter what. But, alas, people hate the Patriots.
snowmanny said:
Maybe Borges should watch the ESPN sports science video. Then again, I can believe Borges can tell if there's a dollar bill missing out of his wallet, just by feel.
So at this point, it basically comes down to the NFL investigation, which has proven time and time again to be inept, and a team ball boy who makes $15/hour.
That does not make me feel comfortable.
That does not make me feel comfortable.
This is the dumbest thing ever and I can't believe Brady and BB had to go through all that.
My take is that this is such a trivial item can basically be explained as ignorance by everybody involved. Belichick doesn't pay attention because why would he, he doesn't handle the football. Brady preps the footballs the way he likes. Brady pulls the balls out of the box and doctors the grip to his liking during the week, but doesn't inflate/deflate. He submits 24 balls to Anderson pre-game, maybe one batch is older and thus under inflated. Anderson gives them the feel test and OK's them. The Colts decide to complain at halftime which forces the officials to actually pull out the gauge to check. The bad balls are swapped out immediately for the 12 good ones and on we go. Unfortunately Irsay has a case of sore-loseritis and leaked it to his guy Kravitz, and because the Patriots are the Patriots, here we are today.
My take is that this is such a trivial item can basically be explained as ignorance by everybody involved. Belichick doesn't pay attention because why would he, he doesn't handle the football. Brady preps the footballs the way he likes. Brady pulls the balls out of the box and doctors the grip to his liking during the week, but doesn't inflate/deflate. He submits 24 balls to Anderson pre-game, maybe one batch is older and thus under inflated. Anderson gives them the feel test and OK's them. The Colts decide to complain at halftime which forces the officials to actually pull out the gauge to check. The bad balls are swapped out immediately for the 12 good ones and on we go. Unfortunately Irsay has a case of sore-loseritis and leaked it to his guy Kravitz, and because the Patriots are the Patriots, here we are today.
I think this is starting to sound like what happened. There is no way the refs actually stuck a needle in every one of those footballs and tested them before the game when the reality of the difference between what is "legal" and what isn't something that would have an impact on the game. Unless the refs have some kind of severe OCD they just gave them a squeeze and then didn't measure them until halftime. And since they never measure them, no one on any NFL teams really worries about the exact pressure of the footballs when they fill them up. They too just do it by feel. So the problem is really that the refs said they "checked" them before the game but they really didn't. Assuming that the coach and the QB know that if they tell the truth about under inflating the footballs they won't get more than a fine, there is no reason for them to lie about this. So we can assume they are telling the truth. And if they are, then the most logical answer to all of this is that the refs either didn't check or they checked without really checking or they, like everyone else before Monday, just didn't think it was that important an issue.Shelterdog said:
H78 said:
Ummm the NFL would look like complete idiots if this was true.
It seems like something is wrong and the NFL doesn't know what to do. The backlash on not finding a smoking gun or the PSI being .2 would be staggering for NFL. HOW DARE THEY NOT KINDLE OUR FIRE OF HATRED FOR THE PATS
maybe the colts paid the ballboy to deflate the balls. honestly if everyone is coming up with conspiracy theories why not something else outlandish?