#DFG: Canceling the Noise

[Section15Box113]

I've said it before, but what really gets me is this:

This whole thing shouldn't have even caused a ripple in still water. I mean, there was no pebble tossed, nor wind to blow.

Bottom line? I am still convinced that no puff came out of a valve of a single ball.

 

[DJnVa]

 
Right, but I still think this puts pressure on Ol Rog to reduce Brady's

 
But a reduction to anything greater than 0 will still cause this to likely head to court.

 

[dabombdig]

Hardy case was framed by NFL losing the Peterson case in court. Henderson (who was the AP arbitrator) protected himself/the league legally. -@albertbreer
So essentially there is no chance of an honest arbitration process taking place in the NFL because they are only looking to protect their own hide. What a joke.

 

[Ed Hillel]

 
But a reduction to anything greater than 0 will still cause this to likely head to court.

 
Of course, but the lower the better, both because Roger will have to undermine his own case in reducing the suspension and as a fall back in case Brady's court case isn't successful.
 

Hardy case was framed by NFL losing the Peterson case in court. Henderson (who was the AP arbitrator) protected himself/the league legally. -@albertbreer

 
Seems like a strange thing for an NFL employee to tweet.

 

[dcmissle]

This is gold for team Brady. 
 
If Goodell reduces the suspension, good and go from there in cour tto get rid of what remains.
 
 If he does not, Lord he looks like a schmuck.  Hardy and Brady both get 4 games???
 
And in response, don't go legal on me and start distinguishing the two cases.  Some things are just so bad on a macro level that they overwhelm everything else.  Hardy and Brady both getting 4 games is one of those things.
 
If RG came calling for a deal, I'd give him an answer now -- nothing -- and add my appreciation for the NFL picking up the cost of the casino license out of its own pocket.

 

[MarcSullivaFan]

This is gold for team Brady. 
 
If Goodell reduces the suspension, good and go from there in cour tto get rid of what remains.
 
 If he does not, Lord he looks like a schmuck.  Hardy and Brady both get 4 games???
 
And in response, don't go legal on me and start distinguishing the two cases.  Some things are just so bad on a macro level that they overwhelm everything else.  Hardy and Brady both getting 4 games is one of those things.
 
If RG came calling for a deal, I'd give him an answer now -- nothing -- and add my appreciation for the NFL picking up the cost of the casino license out of its own pocket.

But because not reducing Brady's suspension now would be totally illogical and inconsistent, he will not reduce it.

 

[NavaHo]

Hang on, let me try to get into the brain of Roger Goodell real quick:
 
If Goodell reduces Brady's suspension as is widely speculated immediately after Greg Hardy's suspension was more than halved on appeal, that would send the message that Goodell's punishments can easily be reduced and that his initial decisions are not the word of god. The players haven't shown enough respect for his initial thrown-at-a-dartboard decisions, and therefore Tom Brady's suspension must be upheld for the good of Roger Goodell's power (and also the good of the league).

 

[Ed Hillel]

Look at the way Aiello worded his statement on this issue: "Suspension upheld..." It's about power.

 

[Average Reds]

This is gold for team Brady. 
 
If Goodell reduces the suspension, good and go from there in cour tto get rid of what remains.
 
 If he does not, Lord he looks like a schmuck.  Hardy and Brady both get 4 games???
 
And in response, don't go legal on me and start distinguishing the two cases.  Some things are just so bad on a macro level that they overwhelm everything else.  Hardy and Brady both getting 4 games is one of those things.
 
If RG came calling for a deal, I'd give him an answer now -- nothing -- and add my appreciation for the NFL picking up the cost of the casino license out of its own pocket.

 
Careful, or some members will lecture you about making this personal.
 
Of course, anyone who says this simply doesn't understand that what it's all about is leverage and power.  (Hat tip to Ed Hillel.)

 

[JeffLedbetter]

And now we see logic for why Goodell didn't want some arbitrator hearing Brady's appeal ... if Hardy got leniency because of precedent of other comparable offenses, what would same arbitrator think of comparable precedent in Brady's/Patriots' case ... Chargers rubbing balls with towels covered in stick 'em and getting $25K fine and Panthers/Vikings getting a mere memo when they heated balls on the sideline?

 

[bankshot1]

At this point i hope Goodell holds the line at 4 games, and then we can watch the shit-storm that follows.

 

[riboflav]

And now we see logic for why Goodell didn't want some arbitrator hearing Brady's appeal ... if Hardy got leniency because of precedent of other comparable offenses, what would same arbitrator think of comparable precedent in Brady's/Patriots' case ... Chargers rubbing balls with towels covered in stick 'em and getting $25K fine and Panthers/Vikings getting a mere memo when they heated balls on the sideline?

 
My understanding is that the arbitrator in the Hardy case is a mere puppet of Goodell's. The public, of course, is not aware of this and so it looks like the suspension was reduced by a neutral party. This allows Goodell to appear tough on violent offenders. 
 
The arbitrator also provided Goodell nice cover in this case in the event that Hardy sues the NFL in court which he might do because (I believe) a two-game suspension is the precedent for what Hardy allegedly did. Goodell can say that he already allowed a neutral party to review and rule on his decision so no need for the courts to intervene.
 
In sum, had the arbitrator left the suspension at 10 games, Hardy sues and wins. Had the arbitrator reduced it to two games (Ray Rice territory), there's an outcry and a media investigation into who the arbitrator was and his relationship to Goodell and the NFL. 
 
Disclaimer - not a lawyer

 

[RG33]

And now we see logic for why Goodell didn't want some arbitrator hearing Brady's appeal ... if Hardy got leniency because of precedent of other comparable offenses, what would same arbitrator think of comparable precedent in Brady's/Patriots' case ... Chargers rubbing balls with towels covered in stick 'em and getting $25K fine and Panthers/Vikings getting a mere memo when they heated balls on the sideline?

The Chargers weren't using stickum. They were using gorrilla gold towels which are legal. These threads are shitshows enough without repeating inaccuracies that have been covered already like 300 times.

 

[dcmissle]

At this point i hope Goodell holds the line at 4 games, and then we can watch the shit-storm that follows.

Florio:

"So now RG has to reduce the suspension, most likely to two games ..."

That is one of my points, which is why you don't negotiate if you are TB and receive an overture. You take half a loaf, and try to get the rest in court.

If he leaves it at 4 games, you get the shitstorm, and maybe revulsion on the part of the district judge who just throws the whole goddamn penalty out.

This reversal by Henderson represents the fourth loss in a row for Goodell -- Bountygate, Ray Rice, AP and now this. And nobody should join the NFL in the preposterous assertion that this outcome represents a win.

 

[bankshot1]

Florio:

"So now RG has to reduce the suspension, most likely to two games ..."

That is one of my points, which is why you don't negotiate if you are TB and receive an overture. You take half a loaf, and try to get the rest in court.

If he leaves it at 4 games, you get the shitstorm, and maybe revulsion on the part of the district judge who just throws the whole goddamn penalty out.

This reversal by Henderson represents the fourth loss in a row for Goodell -- Bountygate, Ray Rice, AP and now this. And nobody should join the NFL in the preposterous assertion that this outcome represents a win.

Common sense seems to dictate that Goodell has to reduce the Brady suspension. But the entertainment factor/Goodell bashing would be huge and almost universal if he held the line at 4 games.

 

[djbayko]

The fact that Goodell is taking this long to rule on the appeal is almost as funny as how long it took for the initial investigation. Arguably all of the evidence was out before the appeal hearing. All of the evidence was out there the day of the appeal hearing. And now he's taking his sweet time, acting like he's a modern reincarnation of King Solomon, losing sleep over a tough decision.

When in reality, the time really amounts to tens/hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of conference calls with lawyers as they draft a decision that protects them as much as possible...justice be damned.

 

[Dogman]

The Chargers weren't using stickum. They were using gorrilla gold towels which are legal. These threads are shitshows enough without repeating inaccuracies that have been covered already like 300 times.

 
So they were fined for something legal?

 

[uncannymanny]

 
So they were fined for something legal?

Yes, they were fined for being uncooperative with the investigation into their use.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Yes, they were fined for being uncooperative with the investigation into their use.

That's weird. Maybe they thought it was illegal?

That's also more ammo for Kessler. Small fines for not being cooperative. In fact, as this was an "integrity of the game" issue, it may be more analagous to Brady than Favre.

 

[uncannymanny]

It's 100% on par with this absurd regime. Guess what phrase the NFL invoked in their statement. Give you one guess.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000091683/article/san-diego-chargers-fined-20k-by-nfl-in-towel-case

 

[djbayko]

The Chargers weren't using stickum. They were using gorrilla gold towels which are legal. These threads are shitshows enough without repeating inaccuracies that have been covered already like 300 times.

Bullshit. The product was illegal, but the NFL didn't want to commission an expert to contest the vendor's claims because (a) as we know, altering the ball was never that important, and (b) they didn't want to give the company any more free publicity after they had already jumped all over the story. It also could have had a little to do with the company's claims that other NFL teams were using the same tactic. Therefore, the NFL fell back to the non cooperation charge.

From the first (2012) article:
"Now the towel-making company Gorilla Gold has come forward to say the Chargers were using its Gorilla Gold Grip Enhancer towels, which use all-natural resins to improve the grips of athletes in many sports. Gorilla Gold says its products leave no residue on the football and are not against the rules."

Wow! The towels somehow affect the grip of the football without leaving a residue on the ball? That's amazing, especially since they claim the secret is their "all-natural resins". How do these resins remain on the towel and still do their job? I'd assume altering the molecular structure of the pigskin would also be illegal. Maybe it's magic. Yeah, I don't think magic is covered in the rule book. Someone tell Belichick we've found his next loophole! /sarcasm

Following the incident, the NFL explicitly outlawed the product to avoid this nonsensical claim in the future.

As far as using the case as precedent / law of the shop - and that's how this incident came up in the first place - the ruling is what matters, and that ruling implies that no illegal substance was used. However, that ruling is not based in reality.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/23/towel-maker-chargers-were-using-our-product-not-stickum/

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/07/2012-chargers-incident-much-different-from-deflategate/

 

[Reverend]

My understanding is that the arbitrator in the Hardy case is a mere puppet of Goodell's. The public, of course, is not aware of this and so it looks like the suspension was reduced by a neutral party. This allows Goodell to appear tough on violent offenders. 
 
The arbitrator also provided Goodell nice cover in this case in the event that Hardy sues the NFL in court which he might do because (I believe) a two-game suspension is the precedent for what Hardy allegedly did. Goodell can say that he already allowed a neutral party to review and rule on his decision so no need for the courts to intervene.
 
In sum, had the arbitrator left the suspension at 10 games, Hardy sues and wins. Had the arbitrator reduced it to two games (Ray Rice territory), there's an outcry and a media investigation into who the arbitrator was and his relationship to Goodell and the NFL. 
 
Disclaimer - not a lawyer

Two things of note here:

1) We don't yet know why Henderson decided to issue the reduction in appeal. Initially, the league had told him not to render an appeal pending their appeal of the federal court verdict. Frankly, I found it mind boggling that he was complying with the league and not the district court, and I think that speaks volumes about how independent he was as an arbitrator, though neutrality is not a requirement under the CBA.

But something has changed. That's interesting.

2) if I'm not mistaken, this case is still in court on appeal by the league. Which means if Hardy sues over this verdict, it would be in court twice on different levels, both of which seem viable, making this...

Only the NFL could engage in Inception-esque litigation over the shiftiness of their processes.

 

[ivanvamp]

Bullshit. The product was illegal, but the NFL didn't want to commission an expert to contest the vendor's claims because (a) as we know, altering the ball was never that important, and (b) they didn't want to give the company any more free publicity after they had already jumped all over the story. It also could have had a little to do with the company's claims that other NFL teams were using the same tactic. Therefore, the NFL fell back to the non cooperation charge.

From the first (2012) article:
"Now the towel-making company Gorilla Gold has come forward to say the Chargers were using its Gorilla Gold Grip Enhancer towels, which use all-natural resins to improve the grips of athletes in many sports. Gorilla Gold says its products leave no residue on the football and are not against the rules."

Wow! The towels somehow affect the grip of the football without leaving a residue on the ball? That's amazing, especially since they claim the secret is their "all-natural resins". How do these resins remain on the towel and still do their job? I'd assume altering the molecular structure of the pigskin would also be illegal. Maybe it's magic. Yeah, I don't think magic is covered in the rule book. Someone tell Belichick we've found his next loophole! /sarcasm

Following the incident, the NFL explicitly outlawed the product to avoid this nonsensical claim in the future.

As far as using the case as precedent / law of the shop - and that's how this incident came up in the first place - the ruling is what matters, and that ruling implies that no illegal substance was used. However, that ruling is not based in reality.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/23/towel-maker-chargers-were-using-our-product-not-stickum/

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/07/2012-chargers-incident-much-different-from-deflategate/

It's quite simple, really.

If Brady is being penalized for non cooperation, the league has two recent precedents: Favre and the Chargers.

$50k and $20k fines.

That's it.

Not four freaking games and effectively a $2 million fine.

Goodell is completely out of his mind.

 

[CaptainLaddie]

Yep.  I also hope he upholds the whole four game suspension and then Brady, his lawyers, and the NFLPA rains hell upon Roger Goodell.

 

[joe dokes]

 
Of course, but the lower the better, both because Roger will have to undermine his own case in reducing the suspension and as a fall back in case Brady's court case isn't successful.
 
 
 

 
will he be undermining his case if he says that the appeal hearing (sham though it was) providided him with evidence or information or insight or something he didn't have. Two games is still out of whack under teh circumstances, but it seems just as likely that a judge would take the move as sign of Goodell's ability to hear the case, s opposed to weakness.
 
People can shit on the lawyers and businesspeople who have settled cases or made deals all they want.  But the fact is that only people sitting at buffalo wild wings wearing NFL jerseys think that settlement offers or penalty reductions are necessarily, and only, a sign of weakness. And people making deals who make it personal often (but not always) end up making a worse deal than they otherwise would have.
 

It's quite simple, really.

If Brady is being penalized for non cooperation, the league has two recent precedents: Favre and the Chargers.

$50k and $20k fines.

That's it.

Not four freaking games and effectively a $2 million fine.

Goodell is completely out of his mind.

 
All of this.

 

[simplyeric]

It's quite simple, really.

If Brady is being penalized for non cooperation, the league has two recent precedents: Favre and the Chargers.

$50k and $20k fines.

That's it.

Not four freaking games and effectively a $2 million fine.

Goodell is completely out of his mind.

That's kimdof why I think he might go to 1 game. He could say 'well, during the appeal Brady was very cooperative and forthcoming. However, his prior lack of cooperation still stands, and I'm reducing his penalty to one game.'

This sets a new precedent moving forward: it's not $25k, it's 1/16 of your salary, and one game. Lesser player would face lesser penalty, because while the 1 game is the same, the resulting financial burden is more equitable between players.

 

[mwonow]

That's kimdof why I think he might go to 1 game. He could say 'well, during the appeal Brady was very cooperative and forthcoming. However, his prior lack of cooperation still stands, and I'm reducing his penalty to one game.'

This sets a new precedent moving forward: it's not $25k, it's 1/16 of your salary, and one game. Lesser player would face lesser penalty, because while the 1 game is the same, the resulting financial burden is more equitable between players.

 
Yeah, but...a) I don't think RG can back off the deflation nonsense. That's the part that speaks to THE INTEGRITY OF THE GAME
 
Also, if Brady's inclined to fight the one game vs. $25K issue, it's still wildly inconsistent with precedent. And it isn't equitable in any meaningful sense - sure, for a rookie on a minimum contract ($435K), the difference isn't material (about $2200, plus maybe pension qualification issues), but for most players, the gap between $25K and 1/16th of a year's salary is going to be pretty great. The Brady household probably wouldn't miss the $1M-ish difference, but the NFLPA would be crazy not to push for a challenge.
 
But none of the rational stuff here really matters, since we're talking about RG. To further confuse SimplyEric, "Sometimes the songs that we hear are just songs of our own"

 

[mwonow]

Entirely off topic, but fwiw, I gave a presentation yesterday (to an audience of IT suppliers) that included a bit about how there is darned little in the way of case studies showing how automation improves the conditions or outlook for run-of-the-mill employees. I mentioned that this would likely have an impact on both the pace of automation and on related issues - for example, the potential for greater interest in unions. I added as a throwaway something to the effect of "never mind that the NFL is making unions seem like the sole advocates of justice these days." I got laughs, which might make sense in New England, but I'm in Toronto, and the guy who was most amused turns out to be a Cowboys fan...

 

[simplyeric]

 
Yeah, but...a) I don't think RG can back off the deflation nonsense. That's the part that speaks to THE INTEGRITY OF THE GAME
 
Also, if Brady's inclined to fight the one game vs. $25K issue, it's still wildly inconsistent with precedent. And it isn't equitable in any meaningful sense - sure, for a rookie on a minimum contract ($435K), the difference isn't material (about $2200, plus maybe pension qualification issues), but for most players, the gap between $25K and 1/16th of a year's salary is going to be pretty great. The Brady household probably wouldn't miss the $1M-ish difference, but the NFLPA would be crazy not to push for a challenge.
 
But none of the rational stuff here really matters, since we're talking about RG. To further confuse SimplyEric, "Sometimes the songs that we hear are just songs of our own"

Oh I know the numbers are bigger than $25k in general. But $25k is for deflation. The 1 game is for non cooperation. He'd be setting a new standard for law of the shop. Sure it's higher than precedent. But it's not SO high that it's absurd. Favre got $50k, one game would be $125k based on an average of $2million/yr. thenfactvthatbfor Brady it's $500k is kindof the point: moving forward he will find balance in penalties by making it essentially relative, as opposed to totally arbitrary.
Maybe Goodell would think 'that's a resonable argument I could make in court, that won't get overturned' whereas the 4 games seems totally arbitrary.

Basically, Goodell might just base his decision on 'what's the max penalty I can assess the has a good chance of holding up in court?'

But yes...it's the song of my people, no doubt.

 

[Myt1]

 
will he be undermining his case if he says that the appeal hearing (sham though it was) providided him with evidence or information or insight or something he didn't have. Two games is still out of whack under teh circumstances, but it seems just as likely that a judge would take the move as sign of Goodell's ability to hear the case, s opposed to weakness.
 
People can shit on the lawyers and businesspeople who have settled cases or made deals all they want.  But the fact is that only people sitting at buffalo wild wings wearing NFL jerseys think that settlement offers or penalty reductions are necessarily, and only, a sign of weakness. And people making deals who make it personal often (but not always) end up making a worse deal than they otherwise would have.

Is there someone in particular you're responding to?

 

[Sportsbstn]

A clarifying question for our legal folks.  I know an arbitrator can reduce the games as was done with Hardy, but can a judge do the same, or is it keep the suspension or vacate it in full?   

 

[BrazilianSoxFan]

And if I may ask a stupid question, there is any way that Brady's lawyers could make a case that the punishment against the team could be prejudicial against the team could/should be vacated in the absence of evidence?

 

[MarcSullivaFan]

A clarifying question for our legal folks.  I know an arbitrator can reduce the games as was done with Hardy, but can a judge do the same, or is it keep the suspension or vacate it in full?   

The judge can uphold Goodell's decision in its entirety, or he can vacate it and send it back to the league for a re-do consistent with his decision. He can't modify the penalty on his own. His decision, however, could (and probably would) have the effect of limiting the potential penalty once it's sent back.

 

[MarcSullivaFan]

And if I may ask a stupid question, there is any way that Brady's lawyers could make a case that the punishment against the team could be prejudicial against the team could/should be vacated in the absence of evidence?

You mean the punishment against Brady?

In any case, the answer is no.

 

[BrazilianSoxFan]

You mean the punishment against Brady?

In any case, the answer is no.

I meant if the punishment against the team is prejudicial against Brady, but mangled the post.

 

[Average Reds]

Is there someone in particular you're responding to?

As near as I can tell, the whole "people making it personal" thing began when he inserted that into a response to a post of mine. So I'm guessing he's taking a passive-aggressive shot at me.

I still think he's way off. Because if I'm Brady and I believe in the strength of my case, a settlement offer that is contingent on my not taking the case to court is a sign of weakness. It's not personal weakness; it's a strong indication that Goodell fears an independent review of the case. And my response to that kind of weakness would be that if you want me to drop any legal appeal, vacate the suspension altogether. Otherwise, we're going to court.

I obviously don't know the particulars, so my assessment could be all wrong. But to claim that I'm making it personal and put it in the terms he has in this thread is ridiculously condescending and arrogant.

 

[Leather]

Hardy case was framed by NFL losing the Peterson case in court. Henderson (who was the AP arbitrator) protected himself/the league legally. -@albertbreer
So essentially there is no chance of an honest arbitration process taking place in the NFL because they are only looking to protect their own hide. What a joke.

Well, it is a joke, but it's also a business. Most places of employment have HR departments that similarly claim to care about employees, but really exist only to cover the company's ass.

This process is a sham, and absurd, but it really shouldn't be shocking to anyone.

 

[dcmissle]

I meant if the punishment against the team is prejudicial against Brady, but mangled the post.

Brady has no lever to challenge the team's penalties. The cases are separate, and the Pats' case is over.

 

[RG33]

Bullshit. The product was illegal, but the NFL didn't want to commission an expert to contest the vendor's claims because (a) as we know, altering the ball was never that important, and (b) they didn't want to give the company any more free publicity after they had already jumped all over the story. It also could have had a little to do with the company's claims that other NFL teams were using the same tactic. Therefore, the NFL fell back to the non cooperation charge.

From the first (2012) article:
"Now the towel-making company Gorilla Gold has come forward to say the Chargers were using its Gorilla Gold Grip Enhancer towels, which use all-natural resins to improve the grips of athletes in many sports. Gorilla Gold says its products leave no residue on the football and are not against the rules."

Wow! The towels somehow affect the grip of the football without leaving a residue on the ball? That's amazing, especially since they claim the secret is their "all-natural resins". How do these resins remain on the towel and still do their job? I'd assume altering the molecular structure of the pigskin would also be illegal. Maybe it's magic. Yeah, I don't think magic is covered in the rule book. Someone tell Belichick we've found his next loophole! /sarcasm

Following the incident, the NFL explicitly outlawed the product to avoid this nonsensical claim in the future.

As far as using the case as precedent / law of the shop - and that's how this incident came up in the first place - the ruling is what matters, and that ruling implies that no illegal substance was used. However, that ruling is not based in reality.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/23/towel-maker-chargers-were-using-our-product-not-stickum/

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/07/2012-chargers-incident-much-different-from-deflategate/

So. . . . . it isn't bullshit. They were fined for non-cooperation and not for using stickum on footballs.

 

[BrazilianSoxFan]

Brady has no lever to challenge the team's penalties. The cases are separate, and the Pats' case is over.

Thanks.

 

[djbayko]

So. . . . . it isn't bullshit. They were fined for non-cooperation and not for using stickum on footballs.

That's not what I was addressing when I called BS. It was an illegal substance.

agree they were only charged with non-cooperation, and thet's what is relevant to Brady as far as low of the shop..

I feel like I said that already.

 

[Bone Chips]

I thought the $20,000 Charger fine ended being $0 after the appeal. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/04/chargers-ultimately-prevailed-in-appeal-of-towel-fine/

 

[bakahump]

Probably my flying elvis showing.....but if RG and Co. try the "Hey we will reduce to 1 game (or 2 or 3) BUT ONLY IF you agree not to go to court" would SCREAM to me that the NFL KNOWs they are Fucked in this situation and is simply trying to save face (which....you know....they are).
 
Do you think many (though probably not most) NON Pats fans would tend to agree?
 
Or would it be the same old "Look RG is TRYING to help Brady out....but the guy just doesnt get it...."

 

[ManhattanRedSox]

Probably my flying elvis showing.....but if RG and Co. try the "Hey we will reduce to 1 game (or 2 or 3) BUT ONLY IF you agree not to go to court" would SCREAM to me that the NFL KNOWs they are Fucked in this situation and is simply trying to save face (which....you know....they are).
 
Do you think many (though probably not most) NON Pats fans would tend to agree?
 
Or would it be the same old "Look RG is TRYING to help Brady out....but the guy just doesnt get it...."
 
 

 
Edit: I apparently can't work the Quote button properly
 
 
The latter.  I think the non Pats fans have already made up their minds (eg. cheatriots, unprecedented penalties).  These are the same people that hold the Pats in contempt over just about everything (eg. illegal formations).  The burden we bear as fans, this time around, is that the hate isn't directed at BB - which we're all accustomed, but to TB, the crown jewel in Kraft's empire.

 

[ifmanis5]

Just found out that I work with someone who used to work at the NFL office and he said that email security was incredibly lax when he was there and that people would take official documents, scan them, and send to the GMAIL accounts or whatever. He also send that everyone was running around trying to please Goodell. Sounds like a great working environment.

Explains how Kensil still has a job.

 

[tims4wins]

Just found out that I work with someone who used to work at the NFL office and he said that email security was incredibly lax when he was there and that people would take official documents, scan them, and send to the GMAIL accounts or whatever. He also send that everyone was running around trying to please Goodell. Sounds like a great working environment.

 
Makes me wonder if there are some, shall we say, interesting documents floating out there somewhere with regard to this whole mess. Please let someone leak them.

 

[1918stabbedbyfoulke]

Randy Moss was in our local area for a football camp a few days ago and had some nice comments on Brady:
 
"I've always stood in Tom's corner,'' Moss said. "I called myself a professional but that man was definitely a letter grade above me.''
Moss said he didn't even want to call the so-called evidence Brady did anything wrong facts. "Over some air?'' Moss said. "If he did it, so what? He hasn't shown me anything but how he carries himself as a professional man, husband, father and athlete.
"Tom Brady is a pro's pro. I love the man and everything he's accomplished.''
 
http://www.fayobserver.com/sports/randy-moss-defends-tom-brady/article_4e00ea9d-d7f5-5887-9f69-fd3c27f6efcc.html

 

[djbayko]

Randy Moss was in our local area for a football camp a few days ago and had some nice comments on Brady:

Dammit...one of the most frustrating players ever. 90% of the time, both on and off the field, he's just so easy to love. It's that other 10%...

 

[Devizier]

I loved Moss a whole lot more than 90% of the time. But then again, I was not a Raiders or Vikings fan.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmJcUlrkMNg

 

[djbayko]

I loved Moss a whole lot more than 90% of the time. But then again, I was not a Raiders or Vikings fan.
 

I was taking his other tours into account and weighting NE more heavily in my mind