#DFG: Canceling the Noise

[Marciano490]

Maybe this has been mentioned before, but how would a massive punishment square with the league only giving the Vikings a warning this year when they were caught heating up their balls during a game (which is also a strict violation of league rules)?  What is the substantive difference between heating up a ball to make it easier to throw and letting some air out of a ball to make it easier to throw?

 
The scary thing, as others have said, is there doesn't need to be logic or precedent or rationale.  There are too many examples to cite, but look at how they treated Rice vs. Suggs vs. Gordon, etc.  The league does what it wants how it wants why it wants and isn't accountable.

 

[LuckyBen]

A lot of people spent a lot of time on this board in the initial wake of the Hernandez investigation, arguing endlessly that it was impossible for him to be involved in a homicide.   And then the news got uglier.   And uglier.   And uglier.   This has the same feel to me.

 
Yeah, Belichick totally murdered those footballs.  Many there is some overreaction in this thread.

 

[theapportioner]

 
Don't give the NFL any ideas.

I think they need to raise the stakes if a BB Super Bowl suspension is on the table. Make it so that they risk completely ruining the event.

 

[Stitch01]

A lot of people spent a lot of time on this board in the initial wake of the Hernandez investigation, arguing endlessly that it was impossible for him to be involved in a homicide.   And then the news got uglier.   And uglier.   And uglier.   This has the same feel to me.

Yo, Salva, you already went on another board and called for BB to be fired dog, I think you've drawn your conclusion

 

[teddykgb]

A lot of people spent a lot of time on this board in the initial wake of the Hernandez investigation, arguing endlessly that it was impossible for him to be involved in a homicide.   And then the news got uglier.   And uglier.   And uglier.   This has the same feel to me.

 
Lol.  Is this serious?  It's going to really suck when we find out BB is a murderer.

 

[MarcSullivaFan]

The only thing the Pats would realistically be able to do in protest is boycott media day en masse and pay the fines. They wouldn't be not showing up for the game or walking out or anything like that. 

Agreed. And there is no way they'd refuse to play. That is the exact opposite of what BB would want. He is all about what happens on the field; that's the way they've been trained.

 

[Byrdbrain]

A lot of people spent a lot of time on this board in the initial wake of the Hernandez investigation, arguing endlessly that it was impossible for him to be involved in a homicide.   And then the news got uglier.   And uglier.   And uglier.   This has the same feel to me.

Yes the parallels are uncanny.
 
Anyway ...... 

 

[soxin6]

I think they need to raise the stakes if a BB Super Bowl suspension is on the table. Make it so that they risk completely ruining the event.

 
In some ways, they already have ruined the event. By allowing this to go on, many are beginning to forget about the game and only focus on the dumbest "scandal" in the NFL this year. 

 

[H78]

 
Lol.  Is this serious?  It's going to really suck when we find out BB is a murderer.

 
:rolling:

 

[DaughtersofDougMirabelli]

The players walking out would be a worst case scenario for me. I don't care about 'proving a point' and trying to stick it to the NFL. 
 
Go out and murder the Seahawks with the players who got you there. McDaniels and Patricia are plenty competent enough to get this team ready. 
 
The only fuck you I want is when Tom Brady flips the bird as he hoists the Lombardi. 

 

[Stitch01]

Agreed. And there is no way they'd refuse to play. That is the exact opposite of what BB would want. He is all about what happens on the field; that's the way they've been trained.

Kraft wouldnt go for it either, the league would pull his franchise.

 

[Leather]

 
While true, the NFL was answering questions from the office about this Monday morning, right? They should have been able to put a dent into some of that work, especially since the players and coaches were off anyway.

 
Lots of people work on MLK day, and I'd bet $100 that most NFL employees were, too.  

 

[IdiotKicker]

A lot of people spent a lot of time on this board in the initial wake of the Hernandez investigation, arguing endlessly that it was impossible for him to be involved in a homicide.   And then the news got uglier.   And uglier.   And uglier.   This has the same feel to me.

Yeah I definitely think Hernandez is involved in some way as well.

 

[Tito's Pullover]

This is probably not happening though but even if it does, nobody here is done with the NFL, the Pats will not protest and like this stupid, ginned-up controversy, BB not being present on the sidelines will have virtually no impact on the game.

Done with the NFL? Haha hahaha

Honestly, at this point, even if nothing happens, I can't see myself watching any NFL football after Brady and Belichick retire, at least until Goodell is replaced.  I love the sport and admire what the Patriots have been able to do over the past 15 years, but there are just too many reasons not to like the league at this point.  The only thing keeping me watching is this remarkable run of success.  And I honestly wasn't a huge Pats fan before the Brady/BB era - in fact I pulled for the Packers in SB31 and followed the Steelers and Bills more closely in the 90s.
 
So yeah.  I, for one, would be done with the NFL, aside from maybe the Super Bowl since it's such a pop culture event.  I'm sure Roger is quaking in his boots at the thought of losing my support.

 

[SumnerH]

I'll go back to this: if it's legal for the QB to wear a glove with tact to enhance the grip why is it bad for the PSI to be where they were?  It doesn't make any sense as the same thing is going on which is gaining an advantage.

It's not really relevant whether it helps or not; part of the point of sports is that they have arbitrary rules. You play within those rules. There's tons of evidence that corking your bat doesn't help you hit any better, but it's still against the rules and we still punish people who do it.

 

[MarcSullivaFan]

The players walking out would be a worst case scenario for me. I don't care about 'proving a point' and trying to stick it to the NFL. 
 
Go out and murder the Seahawks with the players who got you there. McDaniels and Patricia are plenty competent enough to get this team ready. 
 
The only fuck you I want is when Tom Brady flips the bird as he hoists the Lombardi. 

Belichick would be more there by not being there if they pull off the win.

 

[BigJimEd]

 
While true, the NFL was answering questions from the office about this Monday morning, right? They should have been able to put a dent into some of that work, especially since the players and coaches were off anyway.

yeah there really are no holidays for a business in the public eye like the NFL

 

[theapportioner]

 
In some ways, they already have ruined the event. By allowing this to go on, many are beginning to forget about the game and only focus on the dumbest "scandal" in the NFL this year. 

But a few well placed leaks that the players might even entertain the possibility of a walkout would almost certainly cause Goodell to hesitate.

 

[Ed Hillel]

 
Lots of people work on MLK day, and I'd bet $100 that most NFL employees were, too.  

 
That's not important, though. I said "business day" and there was a holiday involved. I needed to be put in my place.

 

[Reverend]

 
WSCH's calculations are wrong, as shown by SumnerH in this thread. They used the wrong p (gauge pressure instead of absolute pressure).

 
OP amended.
 
 

 
You think Goodell can think that clearly? The only thing he's thinking right now is MUST REACT.

 
I very seriously doubt that fucking up the Super Bowl by suspending Belichick is solely Goodell's call.

 

[H78]

This tells me they MUST have footage of someone tampering with the balls. If they suspend BB in the biggest game of the year, there's no doubt they have conclusive evidence.
 
...right?
 
edit: autocorrected to INconclusive but meant conclusive

 

[theapportioner]

 
In some ways, they already have ruined the event. By allowing this to go on, many are beginning to forget about the game and only focus on the dumbest "scandal" in the NFL this year. 

Oh, it could get a lot more ruined...

 

[Reverend]

Yeah I definitely think Hernandez is involved in some way as well.

 
Belichick on PCP is actually a pretty scary thought.

 

[sketz]

Hawks fan here - this is all bullshit and everyone I've talked to out here in Seattle wants it to die.  Win or lose, we want the Pats at full strength with no asterisks or excuses afterwards.

 

[LuckyBen]

This tells me they MUST have footage of someone tampering with the balls. If they suspend BB in the biggest game of the year, there's no doubt they have inconclusive evidence.
 
...right?

 
Wouldn't the footage need to be of BB or at least him talking to the bellboy?

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

 
The scary thing, as others have said, is there doesn't need to be logic or precedent or rationale.  There are too many examples to cite, but look at how they treated Rice vs. Suggs vs. Gordon, etc.  The league does what it wants how it wants why it wants and isn't accountable.

 
True enough. 
 
If I can't hope for sanity to prevail, then I guess I'll fall back on influence: Kraft is one of the most powerful owners in the league and he went to bat big time for Goodell on the Ray Rice thing, so hopefully he has some choice words about this whole shitshow for Rog. 

 

[DJnVa]

A lot of people spent a lot of time on this board in the initial wake of the Hernandez investigation, arguing endlessly that it was impossible for him to be involved in a homicide.   And then the news got uglier.   And uglier.   And uglier.   This has the same feel to me.

 
They did?
 
There may have been some disbelief (because, you know that was MURDERDEATHKILL), but I don't recall endless arguing over it.

 

[kartvelo]

So to recap the facts so far:
1) Refs say the balls were measured and found to be fine before the game
2) Balls were found to be underinflated at halftime and the situation was remedied
3) No evidence has been presented yet of any wrongdoing on the part of the Pats organization

 

[Jed Zeppelin]

Belichick would be more there by not being there if they pull off the win.

 
"If you strike me down..."

 

[SumnerH]

OK, so jasail, to his credit, followed up. And so I present to you:

Links for WSCH/this precis? They made the gauge pressure/absolute pressure mistake; the PSI reduction should be higher than they're claiming.

 

[Hendu for Kutch]

So ball manipulation by the Vikings, caught on video, results in a memo.  But ball manipulation, without proof, results in being suspended for the Super Bowl?  I just can't fathom that they'd do that with a precedent set just several weeks ago.
 
I'm convinced the NFL could fuck up anything at this point though.  Their complete silence combined with the small "1% of info at a time" leaks have blown this whole story up into a frenzy, allowing the blanks to be filled in with worst case scenario narrative at each turn.  Now they've let it sit long enough that rumor has become truth.
 
Furthermore, if they do overreact with the intent of squashing this, it'll have the exact opposite reaction.  People remember Spygate specifically because the penalty was so harsh.  If they had docked New England a 4th round pick nobody would give a shit.  Do they learn from that mistake or repeat it?

 

[Omar's Wacky Neighbor]

 
Lots of people work on MLK day, and I'd bet $100 that most NFL employees were, too.  

Yeah, I'd kinda doubt that anyone of any importance in NFL corporate takes a day off bet. Championship Sunday and SB Sunday.
 
It's like a CPA taking off the week of April 10-14.

 

[GregHarris]

NFL Presser I want to see:
 
"Wilson ball lot #665, found to have faulty valve."

 

[Shelterdog]

This tells me they MUST have footage of someone tampering with the balls. If they suspend BB in the biggest game of the year, there's no doubt they have conclusive evidence.
 
...right?
 
edit: autocorrected to INconclusive but meant conclusive

 
 
Or that Theo's sources are wrong.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

 
You're way too strong here.  I don't think the NFL would go from near 100% popularity to 0, but I think a fair number of folks would more or less be done with the NFL.

If the NFL suspends BB from the game, the ratings will set records. The loss of a few random butthurt Pats fans will be more than offset by those who generally could care less about the game.

Each week, the NFL trots out its stylized barbarians amid increasing controversy largely due to the fact that the league simply can no longer cover-up the horrific things its employees do from the eyes of social media. And each week people continue to tune in even when they know they are cheering broken, violent men.

If you think outrage over this tempest in a hand-pump is going to hurt the Shield, you are sorely mistaken. The storyline is actually quite compelling...

 

[jkshute]

 
This actually makes me wish Selig was the commissioner of the NFL (Bud would do this exactly what was suggested). I am going to now go punish myself for having unclean thoughts.

It just so happens that Bud is in need of a job....Bud Selig, Come on Down!    
 
In other news, EV has reviewed the individual PSI readings and determined that if you throw out Balls #3, 7, and 11,  the remaining balls average only .06 PSI below the minimum standard. 
 
Just for the record, I miss EV.  Seriously. 

 

[H78]

 
 
Or that Theo's sources are wrong.

 
Hence If

 

[shoosh77]

 
It's not fair to compare the two things. 
 
Why would you expect the NFL to be fair?
 
EDIT:  Unrelatedly could you freaking imagine what the pats would say post game if BB was suspended for this bullshit and the Pats still won?

 
The situation screams for Wes Welker:
 
"We weren't going to let any distractions deflate us."
"We just go so pumped up coming onto the field..."
"We weren't going to let the air out..."

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

If the NFL suspends BB from the game, the ratings will set records. The loss of a few random butthurt Pats fans will be more than offset by those who generally could care less about the game.

Each week, the NFL trots out its stylized barbarians amid increasing controversy largely due to the fact that the league simply can no longer cover-up the horrific things its employees do from the eyes of social media. And each week people continue to tune in even when they know they are cheering broken, violent men.

If you think outrage over this tempest in a hand-pump is going to hurt the Shield, you are sorely mistaken. The storyline is actually quite compelling...

 
Was just about to post the same thing.  It will become must-see tv.  It's a win-win-win.  League gets to look tough.  They learned from spygate that cries of "others were doing it" fall on deaf ears.  And they get their gladiator games.

 

[Marciano490]

 
Belichick on PCP is actually a pretty scary thought.

 
At least he knows where to find a good safe house.  Hopefully, one with a big screen TV so he can watch the game.

 

[SumnerH]

I have not seen once shred of data specific to the atmospheric pressures on Endor OR Kasyyykk... This is all total speculation until we know this information.

Wookiepedia claims that they both had Type I atmospheres, which are close to Earth's in composition and pressure. Significant pressure variance would push them to Type II or worse.

http://www.wookiepedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere#Type_I_atmospheres

 

[Nick Kaufman]

OK, so jasail, to his credit, followed up. And so I present to you:
 
jasail's Ballghazi Precis/Primer:
 
1) Each team provides the NFL with game balls for use during the game and the NFL requires the balls to be inflated between 12.5 - 13.5 psi and weigh between 14-15 ounces.

2) 2 hours prior to the start of the game, NFL refs are required to inspect the psi and weight of game balls provided by each team. If the balls provided do not meet these specifications, then they will be adjusted by the refs.

3) Once the balls are returned to the teams, they are put in ball bags on each sideline but are not guarded by NFL personnel. Team ball boys will provide the refs with new balls at their request.

4) League sources have confirmed that Walt Anderson and crew inspected and approved all balls provided by the Colts and Patriots 2hrs and 15 min prior to kick off and returned them to their respective teams.

5) ESPN Radio reports that Walt Anderson and crew inspected the Patriots balls again at half-time and those that were under-inflated were re-inflated and put back into play.

6) ESPN Radio reports that Walt Anderson and crew then inspected the Patriots balls again after the game. No details have been released regarding the results of these tests.

7) Chris Mortenson reports that 11/12 of the balls provided by the Patriots were found to be 2 psi below the NFL specifications. It is uncertain whether this report is with regards to the balls tested at half-time, the end of the game or some combination thereof. 

8) Adam Schefter reports the Colts had concerns about the level to which the Patriots inflated their balls following the November meeting between the teams and they raised this concern to the NFL prior to the AFC Championship Game.

9) WSCH of Portland showed their math in a pv=nrt equation to show that temperature change from time of measurement to game time could result in a potential reduction of PSI by 0.4. This presumed that the air inside the ball was at 68 degrees at time of initial measurement and then 51 degrees at game time. Therefore, it is unlikely that the change in pressure is solely the result of change in temperature.
 
I have appended this to the end of the thread's OP. If you have any updates, addendi, amendments or changes, please post them in this thread with the designation #inflatethis.

 
Thank you, much appreciated.

 

[Time to Mo Vaughn]

I hope the NFL suspends Belichick for the game and he continues to coach right from the sideline hoodie and all with a Bobby Valentine mustache.

 

[jasail]

Links for WSCH/this precis? They made the gauge pressure/absolute pressure mistake; the PSI reduction should be higher than they're claiming.

 
http://www.wcsh6.com/story/weather/2015/01/20/inflate-gate-weather-roll/22065861/
 
I haven't checked their math, so I'm working with the assumption that their conversions and calculations are accurate. If not, please taunt me mercilessly and adjust the post. 

 

[teddykgb]

If the NFL suspends BB from the game, the ratings will set records. The loss of a few random butthurt Pats fans will be more than offset by those who generally could care less about the game.

Each week, the NFL trots out its stylized barbarians amid increasing controversy largely due to the fact that the league simply can no longer cover-up the horrific things its employees do from the eyes of social media. And each week people continue to tune in even when they know they are cheering broken, violent men.

If you think outrage over this tempest in a hand-pump is going to hurt the Shield, you are sorely mistaken. The storyline is actually quite compelling...

 
It might set records in this Super Bowl, but I think it inflicts a lot of damage on the brand and would have seriously negative long term ramifications.  This is the Super Bowl, changing its competitive balance for something as asinine as this starts to make a mockery of this event as serious athletic competition.  And I don't think that serious damage in the NE market would be a good thing for the NFL.  Either way, I don't think this would sink the league or anything, but you're moving the goal posts -- you originally said nobody here would be done with the NFL -- I don't think that's true, I think lots of people in New England would be done with the NFL.

 

[fairlee76]

NFL Presser I want to see:
 
"Wilson ball lot #665, found to have faulty valve."

God, that would be fantastic.

 

[Hoya81]

If Goddell drops the hammer, add NE to the list of NFL cities/regions (New Orleans, Baltimore) he is persona non grata in.

 

[Byrdbrain]

 
http://www.wcsh6.com/story/weather/2015/01/20/inflate-gate-weather-roll/22065861/
 
I haven't checked their math, so I'm working with the assumption that their conversions and calculations are accurate. If not, please taunt me mercilessly and adjust the post. 

If you look at the comments on the article you will see that their error is pointed out, the math is wrong.
 
Edit:To be clear the math is technically correct they just use the wrong pressure measurement making the result incorrect. This has been discussed way more than it should have been in this thread.

 

[Stitch01]

 
It might set records in this Super Bowl, but I think it inflicts a lot of damage on the brand and would have seriously negative long term ramifications.  This is the Super Bowl, changing its competitive balance for something as asinine as this starts to make a mockery of this event as serious athletic competition.  And I don't think that serious damage in the NE market would be a good thing for the NFL.  Either way, I don't think this would sink the league or anything, but you're moving the goal posts -- you originally said nobody here would be done with the NFL -- I don't think that's true, I think lots of people in New England would be done with the NFL.

Id be done with it in the way I engage now.  Id still watch some Pats games, but Id be done building my Sundays around it and eat/sleep/breathing it for five months a year, not that the league need me.

 

[Shelterdog]

 
Hence If

 
Your MUST confused me.