drleather2001 said:
Brady's lawyer was there the whole time, I'm wondering if they have a transcript of it they'd release if it'd benefit Brady.
#DFG: Canceling the Noise
- Thread starter nattysez
- Start date
Brady's lawyer was there the whole time, I'm wondering if they have a transcript of it they'd release if it'd benefit Brady.
I apologize if I missed it but I reread the part about the IMs and two thing stood out:
1.) middle aged dudes should use teenage IM talk with extreme care. They look like idiots.
2.) Some, if not all, of the needle references are, um, not exactly about needles. "I have a big needle for you this weekend" is not instructions to break NFL laws--it's a fucking dick joke.
1.) middle aged dudes should use teenage IM talk with extreme care. They look like idiots.
2.) Some, if not all, of the needle references are, um, not exactly about needles. "I have a big needle for you this weekend" is not instructions to break NFL laws--it's a fucking dick joke.
NortheasternPJ said:
Maybe more like a leak. I think that's actually how things are done now.
I wonder why Walt Anderson is NOT listed as a "more probable than not" conspirator..
On his watch he didn't log down the pre game PSI even though he was briefed by the NFL that the Patriots might be messing with them.. why didn't he have the numbers to use as a baseline or whatever term scientists use?
On his watch, the balls went to the field unsupervised and according to him that was the first time in 19 years that happened.
On his watch a ball was stolen and then an NFL Official tried to replace it with a non ok'd ball.
On his watch he only had time to check the all Patriots footballs and only 4 of the Colts Footballs at half time.
This is the guy whose word they take as gospel?
edited to add the NOT a few beers later.
On his watch he didn't log down the pre game PSI even though he was briefed by the NFL that the Patriots might be messing with them.. why didn't he have the numbers to use as a baseline or whatever term scientists use?
On his watch, the balls went to the field unsupervised and according to him that was the first time in 19 years that happened.
On his watch a ball was stolen and then an NFL Official tried to replace it with a non ok'd ball.
On his watch he only had time to check the all Patriots footballs and only 4 of the Colts Footballs at half time.
This is the guy whose word they take as gospel?
edited to add the NOT a few beers later.
But seriously, it's fucking perfect that a cornerstone to the entire report is the credibility of a fucking referee, who fans of every team think are stupid and notoriously unreliable.
But this time their real-time judgment and knowledge of the exact wording of the rule book is rock solid. Ok. Sure.
But this time their real-time judgment and knowledge of the exact wording of the rule book is rock solid. Ok. Sure.
Stitch01 said:
That's not fair. We're using those text messages to build the case against the Patriots, not the refs.
At least it's the information of referees whose league makes them log in each ball's PSI level before each game.drleather2001 said:
Oh wait....
Kind of naive of Brady to be using his cell phone so freely after he learned of the investigation. I guess he didn't realize the investigation would be headed by Reisner,Preet Barara's pitbull, whose previous target was Steve Cohen--the guy the Feds wanted to nail above all others. No wonder Kraft didn't want to give him another crack at McNally. (Interestingly, Wells was Cohen's counsel).
The aptly named DICK Vitale is getting roasted on his Twitter timeline for tweeting "TOM BRADY SACKED BIG TIME / NFL MUST be TOUGH in penalty on Brady!"
Linky doucebaggery: https://twitter.com/DickieV/status/596395759215517697/photo/1
Linky doucebaggery: https://twitter.com/DickieV/status/596395759215517697/photo/1
I just find it amazing that the texts and all the context I've seen is Brady being pissed about having to play with 16 PSI footballs to the point of wanting to give the officials a copy of the rules, and this evidence is being used to "prove" he wanted them to deflate the balls below 12.5 PSI.
McBride11 said:
Well played.
HomeBrew1901 said:
I think if Brady quit unless he gets an apology from Goodell, he would become my favorite athlete ever.
Shelterdog said:
Yeah, the parsing of the texts is some of the worst shit going on--and this is bracketing whether or not they are guilty or not.
The Rodnkey King trial became a case study in how narratives in legalism work. If you parse the narrative, you can confound meaning. Like, they took stills of King on the ground with his limbs pulled in and had a martial arts expert point out that his leg was bent the same way you would cock before kicking someone. Shit like that. reparsing a narrative is what people do to find truth, but it is as often as not destructive of the truth which allows people to construct a new narrative.
People are not good at truth.
Local DC radio guys are quoting Reiss and trashing inconsistencies of report and saying (paraphrasing) witch hunt against Pats because they always win.
Salem State's Campus Police must be thrilled about tonight and trying to herd reporters etc.
I'm amazed, or rather not, that it's taken the media so long to remember that in Brady's conference he specifically said something to the tune of 'I like my ball at 12.5. 12.5 is perfect for me.' Then the report says that Brady even gave the refs a copy of the RULE BOOK to justify his guys setting it at 12.5 so they don't' pump it up so hard. Somebody reading this thread can pm me to thank me.
Then we have the ridiculous mess over PV=nRT over time at a certain T (cold or warming up) and a complete lack of pregame records for the balls.
and on. and on.
Then we have the ridiculous mess over PV=nRT over time at a certain T (cold or warming up) and a complete lack of pregame records for the balls.
and on. and on.
There is no Rev said:
The prosecution wants you to believe that its case is made out of bricks. They can show you one side of the brick, pretend it's solid all the way through, but if you look at the bricks from another angle, they might be as thin as a playing card!
*sigh* (transcript from NY daily news but I'm not giving them clicks)
So, we have TB12 saying as much IN PUBLIC (release the transcripts, Mr. Transparency....). I think we can all infer whatever we want about the two staff but it's pretty sad that this report is written with the language that it is when it was claimed to be impartial.
Ah, what do I care...I've been watching less football for years now.
edits b/c I can't use the quote function right.
So, we have TB12 saying as much IN PUBLIC (release the transcripts, Mr. Transparency....). I think we can all infer whatever we want about the two staff but it's pretty sad that this report is written with the language that it is when it was claimed to be impartial.
Ah, what do I care...I've been watching less football for years now.
edits b/c I can't use the quote function right.
Once again. McNally,
1. Calls himself a deflator.
2. Jokingly -but really very seriously trying to extract as much loot as possible- blackmails Jamstreski for sport shoes.
3. Jokingly says that he's going to take this to ESPN.
IN MAY of 2014. In May of 2014. Before Brady complained about the PSI being at 16. Before the word deflate was in vogue, before this thing blew way out of proportion.
I can't understand under what scenario this kind of joking implies a completely innocent activity and I am not convinced by the explanations given here.
The most probable than not interpretation of their texts is that McNally, either deflated balls under 12.5 or he deflated them to 12.5 after the refs had signed on them. Most probable than not looks like an extremely apt way of putting it.
Beyond this, I do think that the alleged crime is a nothingburger and that the scientific evidence that the balls were underinflated is pretty flimsy.
1. Calls himself a deflator.
2. Jokingly -but really very seriously trying to extract as much loot as possible- blackmails Jamstreski for sport shoes.
3. Jokingly says that he's going to take this to ESPN.
IN MAY of 2014. In May of 2014. Before Brady complained about the PSI being at 16. Before the word deflate was in vogue, before this thing blew way out of proportion.
I can't understand under what scenario this kind of joking implies a completely innocent activity and I am not convinced by the explanations given here.
The most probable than not interpretation of their texts is that McNally, either deflated balls under 12.5 or he deflated them to 12.5 after the refs had signed on them. Most probable than not looks like an extremely apt way of putting it.
Beyond this, I do think that the alleged crime is a nothingburger and that the scientific evidence that the balls were underinflated is pretty flimsy.
So Tom Brady should have given his phone with his personal texts, calls, emails, voicemails, etc... over to a front office that can't keep a secret? TMZ would have had a field day with every stupid piece of gossip they could glean out of that thing. For the report to consider Brady uncooperative for not inviting that is nonsense.
For the 100th time, they offered him the ability to turn over selective, relevant texts only...not the entire phone. I'm fine with his decision not to comply anyways, but ignoring this point distorts the truth and weakens your argument.jtn46 said:
Edit: I realize some people are coming in and out of a rapidly growing thread. Maybe we need to update the first post again with some pertinent facts and common misconceptions.
loshjott said:
I just want to point out that this is to be expected by the sports media, and probably desired by the NFL itself. No matter how the report came out, you're going to get guys playing both sides of the issue, full blast, all the time. Gotta scrap for those dollars. Seriously. It's May. No one cares about the NFL during this time of a normal year.
Nick Kaufman said:
This is largely where I come down too. I actually think the most likely scenario is that Brady was pissed about the balls sometimes getting really inflated by the refs during the check and so he asked these guys at some point in the last couple years to make sure that they were at 12.5 when they went out to the field. This was a rules violation (shouldn't fuck with the balls after the refs check them) but not necessarily one that took the balls out of standard range and therefore not any kind of meaningful infringement of fair play. McNally started calling himself the Deflator and it was largely a no-big-deal kind of thing, one that a bunch of other teams were probably doing as well.
Its a league where people talk and everybody knows everybody so word got around that the Patriots were doing this and the league, being run by geniuses, decided to launch a sting operation rather than making a simple "knock it off" phone call.
Whether or not McNally fucked with a few of them in the bathroom before the AFC Championship game is pretty much unknowable but not established by the junk science of the Exponent report. But at that point the whole thing was a self fulfilling prophesy where the league was going to structure the investigation to reach the conclusion that justified they're own crazy behavior in launching the sting operation to begin with.
I wonder how many teams since the report came out ordered their employees to delete all text messages and voicemails immediately.
djbayko said:
Of course, if he had turned over 2,784 messages, the report could have gone on to say, "We have substantial reason to believe this is only a portion of the relevant messages."
There's always a real danger in taking communications out of context. Especially when it's coming from two knuckleheads that appear to lie about other issues (50,000 yard football autograph).Nick Kaufman said:
However, even if we are to read the texts the same as the report, at best it looks like the attendants may have deflated balls after the ref inspected them to12.5. At worse, it looks like they deflated them to under 12.5. Both would be against the rules. Under bith scenarios, though, nowhere is there even an indication that Brady asked the attendants to deflate footballs post-inspection.
Well yeah, I kind of agree with all of this with the caveat that 2 and 3 probably sound worse in text than they really are, like its much more likely to be ballbusting than thinking they were covering up anything that matters. Aaron Rodgers went on TV and said they tried to overinflate footballs. No, that's not the same as fucking with the balls post inspection, but I doubt they really thought they had . But if you asked me whether someone messed with the balls after they were inspected and I was forced to guess yes or no, yeah, I probably guess yes.Nick Kaufman said:
Now, where is the punishable offense that Tom Brady committed?
Nick Kaufman said:
The first bullet reveals people's bias. You immediately saw the nickname defaltor with no context and assumed it was nefarious. Can you honestly, without knowing anything about why he used that nickname, not think about any harmless scenarios that might cause him to use that nickname?
What if Brady chewed him when Brady was inspecting balls pre-game and there were 14, 15, 16 PSI and Brady made a big deal about deflating them down to 12.5. Wouldn't that change the entire context and meaning of that text?
On the surface it doesn't look great. But you are assigning your own meaning, context and bias to it.
For those who lack the time to read the entire 243 page report, but can access it, Fig. 14 shows how rapidly pressure in any football changes as temperature falls or rises in the first 10-15 minutes of shifts in the temperatur e range in question. Just looking at this graphic would impress any neutral scientist that arriving at any conclusions about what was done in the stadium should be carried out with extreme caution, if at all. What assumptions are made as to when on these rapidly changing curves the Patriots' balls, and then the Colts' balls, we're tested is absolutely critical to the results obtained.
Ironically, Aaron Hernandez was the only person in that organization smart enough to use a burner cell.
It reminds the Haters that the Pats are the current world champions. It's much more bitter than sweet.Ed Hillel said: