OnWisc said:Please. Do you have any idea how much Gronk would get fined for dropping an f-bomb right there?
#DFG: Canceling the Noise
- Thread starter nattysez
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Hopefully Rachel Nichols will be there. She was literally the lone good questioner in the Ray Rice presser debacles.JimD said:
Van Everyman said:
This is where I'm at-- the moral outrage emanating from the league feels real (however misinformed or rooted in weird and murky grudges from the distant past).
And it's hard to imagine that the moral outrage came originally from Goodell, whom all anecdotal evidence paints a morally-stunted, calculating Kraft crony. But the tone of the leaks ('distraught', 'entrenched' etc) and the shoot-my-dog-I'll-kill-your-cat timing of them suggests that somebody in the league's office is really pissed and not behaving as a rational actor here. This is not a ruling body that is trying to make the scandal go away as quietly as possible, or — as some has proposed— a league that is calculatedly milking the drama for maximum publicity. There's been too much reckless moral grandstanding for that to be the case.
lexrageorge said:
Goodell is a bully, as evidenced by his ripping up the television and referees' contracts and saying "Deal with it, We're the NFL." He is so accustomed to steamrolling folks that he gets enraged by resistance.
I could see it showing weakness internally, but the likely intended consequence of Goodell's official silence on the matter is he still has the ability to announce that no wrongdoing by the Patriots was found without contradicting any previous statements. It's the media that's very publicly staked out their positions, not Roger. He doesn't have to fall on his sword here. Not too hard to picture him saying that the NFL announced a review, that when it was completed they announced the results, and that the speculation surrounding the event was out of their hands. Granted, Goodell would once again have failed in his duties as commissioner by allowing this shitshow to proceed unabated in the runup to the Super Bowl, but this thing can still, and probably will, end with a whimper instead of a bang.
Stitch01 said:
Totally agree. The refs may have a reasonable level of incompetence, but I think they come to that honestly. And I think the interplay between Kraft, Goodell, and the game refs is vastly more complicated than is being described anyway---I have no idea who (behind the scenes) tends to support the refs, push for tougher deals, etc over time....which is far more important than anything that has happened the last week.
Let's worry about the Seahawks....I'm confident that's all the Pats are focused on.
Please. Do you have any idea how much Gronk would get fined for dropping an f-bomb right there?
Ed Hillel said:
Here's a link to the Brenkus interview on WEEI:
http://media.weei.com/a/101369606/espn-sport-science-john-brenkus-talks-deflate-gate-1-28-14.htm
And here's video of the actual Sport Science segment on Deflategate for reference:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6F4ce1H2QJs
It may be a combination of sincere outrage and Goodell grandstanding. Ultimately, unless there's a smoking gun, or some sort of miracle exculpatory evidence, Goodell's decision will come down to a political/PR calculation. Based on Kraft's reaction and how long the Pats have been left to twist in the wind, it does not look like that calculation with produce a favorable result for the Patriots. I don't see Kraft caving either. The Pats are going to be sanctioned. The only question is how much. That probably depends on who they think is lying. If they pin it on BB, we're screwed.m0ckduck said:
Someone mentioned the new labor agreement and Kraft. There are owners who think that was a bad deal and wanted to go more scorched earth on that.
wiffleballhero said:
Agreed.
They are either traveling the country at fundraisers, or having grant requests written on their behalf to raise funds for their work.
One guy I've learned to appreciate through all this is Louis Riddick:
Louis Riddick @LRiddickESPNhttps://twitter.com/LRiddickESPN · Jan 26
Total clown-show. Embarrassing for everyone. Period.
Radio interview here
http://www.101sports.com/podcasts/why-is-louis-riddick-beginning-to-waver-from-his-original-seahawks-pick-in-the-super-bowl/
Louis Riddick @LRiddickESPNhttps://twitter.com/LRiddickESPN · Jan 26
Total clown-show. Embarrassing for everyone. Period.
Radio interview here
http://www.101sports.com/podcasts/why-is-louis-riddick-beginning-to-waver-from-his-original-seahawks-pick-in-the-super-bowl/
There is no question that the relationship between Goodell and Kraft is much more complex that what is being conveyed here. I, for one, am getting what amount to snippets, essentially, from people outside the NFL but who are connected to people inside it. They have described things between Goodell and Kraft as very bad right now. But that is superficial and you're right, there are undoubtedly many layers to the onion.PedroKsBambino said:
As to what we focus on, happily it doesn't matter if we get distracted by side issues. The Pats players are another story...heaven forbid they are thinking about any of this!
The league cannot completely pretend the weather has no effect, I see no way for them to dodge or miscalculate this issue forever, it is such an easily repeatable and observable phenomenon. They already leaked a 2 PSI difference total as the alleged offence, so worst case scenario the league will have to nail the Pats on what is likely the "unexplained by weather" ~.5 PSI difference.
Based on this you would have to cut all the claims in the sports science clip by 1/4th, making whole thing even more ridiculous. Their implication is that the Pats "cheated" to add .25mm worth of grip (whatever that means), and lowered the weight of the football by less than 1/4th of a dollar bill. They would have to allege this .5 difference is significant enough that the most likely cause is the Patriots cheating, and their measurements and process is accurate to even pick up this difference.
Based on this you would have to cut all the claims in the sports science clip by 1/4th, making whole thing even more ridiculous. Their implication is that the Pats "cheated" to add .25mm worth of grip (whatever that means), and lowered the weight of the football by less than 1/4th of a dollar bill. They would have to allege this .5 difference is significant enough that the most likely cause is the Patriots cheating, and their measurements and process is accurate to even pick up this difference.
Stitch01 said:
OTOH they might feel like they owe one to Seahawks fans.
I mean, rationally I don't believe anyone's going to try and rig the game, but there is a crazy emotional sports part of my mind that's a little bit worried about it after all these rumors of intrigue.
He's with the Pats on there being no competitive advantage from a 2psi difference, but comes out strong against temperature and rain accounting for the disparity. He says whatever happened to the balls, he KNOWS it had nothing to do with environmental factors. He goes on the grey list.Ed Hillel said:
NWsoxophile said:
I think the issue there is that he was assuming all of the 11 footballs were 2PSI under, per Mort. If it turns out most were closer to 1PSI, as Florio has reported and I suspect, I think you'd see his mind change on that. He seemed to think that the refs messed up, and said he didn't believe the Pats altered the balls in any way, since it wouldn't make any sense.
Again, please don't turn this into a catch-all for random tidbits. If it's not about the topic, post it in an existing thread or start a new one. There's enough to sift through here already.
Harry Hooper said:
Yes.
The draconian punishments for "Spygate" and "Bountygate" occurred almost entirely because people dared disobey The Great And Powerful Roger Goodell.
Goodell is the law and order commissioner, and typically the longer someone who has that at the core of their being stays on the job the more drunk with power and immortal they feel. See: Giuliani, Rudy.
There is no doubt that the NFL may crush the Pats with a penalty in this case, lack of evidence be damned, because I'm Roger F'ing Goodell, dammit.
http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12244290/ex-quarterback-jeff-blake-deflating-footballs-common
Not sure how this will affect the public discourse....
Not sure how this will affect the public discourse....
Tony C said:
It will be used by everyone saying SEE THE PATRIOTS TAMPERED WITH THE FOOTBALLS ON THE SIDELINE and then the part about it being common practice will be ignored and buried.
Laser Show said:
The columnists at the Washington Post, while not necessarily pro-Pats, seem to have come out pretty strongly in general against Deflategate, and the NFL, in this whole silly saga. Here's Sally Jenkins (and a link to Adam Kilgore) mocking Deflategate:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/deflate-gate-despite-history-of-patriots-and-nfl-is-a-scandal-thats-losing-air/2015/01/28/810d52a4-a738-11e4-a06b-9df2002b86a0_story.html
Well, he's right, it would be very difficult for him to line up against them......Sea Bass said:
Ben Volin @BenVolin 2m2 minutes ago
NBC Exec Producer Sam Flood on their #DeflateGate coverage on SB Sunday: "It's a developing story and we will have appropriate coverage."
For what its worth: Sam Flood is a longtime Pats fan from Dedham who attended Nobles in the late 1970's.
NBC Exec Producer Sam Flood on their #DeflateGate coverage on SB Sunday: "It's a developing story and we will have appropriate coverage."
For what its worth: Sam Flood is a longtime Pats fan from Dedham who attended Nobles in the late 1970's.
You are viewing this through the lens of a rational actor. Through that lens, yes, the position you outlined is a very reasonable one to take. There is nothing to be gained from any of the NFL's key stakeholders to bring the hammer down on the Patriots. I've said this before: neither the sponsors nor the TV networks care about ball psi. The fans will still buy tickets and will still attend games if no penalty is assessed.OnWisc said:
But the leaks, assuming they are at all representative (a big assumption, IMO), indicate that Goodell has neither the interest nor the desire of behaving rationally. I've seen too many people make the dumbest of dumb business decisions based solely on emotional reasons to believe executives are above such thinking. And ego is a big emotion for Goodell.
Yet another red herring obscuring the fact that there is still no actual evidence of wrongdoing.Tony C said:
Blake's testimony is irrelevant anyway, as he came before the age of "do whatever the hell you want with the balls until we arbitrarily decide to care about this non-issue."
lexrageorge said:
I think it all depends on how independent Wells is. If it's not a show trial, and if Wells concludes that the evidence is inconclusive and potentially explainable by natural phenomena, then Goodell would have to go against the results of the investigation to enact punishment. That would be bad for the Patriots, but worse for him.
My assumption is that Godell is simply reacting to the last crisis, in which he let his friendship for an owner cloud his judgment. So, the solution now is not to believe anything from a friend, and to leak stories that he doesn't believe anything without a $2 million dollar report for cover. In the end, though, the pr will cease and his evidence will come in. I would be shocked if PW has been given marching orders, and if not, they will come to the same conclusion as the rational people.lexrageorge said:
The law firm will write a report that finds something. You don't get jobs like this if you don't give the client something to chew on.Steve Dillard said:
Yeah, this is pretty much the opposite of how firms like Paul Weiss approach a gig like this.86spike said:
Unless the NFL is both the client and target of an investigation, in which case "not enough evidence" is perfectly sufficient to clear everybody's name.86spike said:
Not really. I don't think this happened because it would have leaked but here's a plausible scenario:Byrdbrain said:
The officials didn't immediately test the Pats balls pre-game and intentionally set every ball to 12.5 long after the friction effect had faded. Then at halftime the officials waited 5 minutes before checking the footballs to allow them to warm and got a psi reading of 10.5 or lower on one ball and slightly above that on 10 others. Based on the warming rate we all saw last night in this thread that would be difficult to explain.
Caveat here that it's possible wet balls take longer to adjust than the dry ball tested in this thread last night.
P'tucket said:
I think that's a pretty optimistic description of how these things go, too. There are occasionally times the firm really will give the client nothing, and they most certainly will not fabricate things or make conclusions that are simply unsupported by the facts, but they are also aware of the client's interests and work to manage those even in a negative report.
A look at the Ray Rice investigative report shows how this looks---there may be criticism and findings that are not preferred by the client, but there also is a real attempt to manage criticism and the impression the report will leave. A law firm investigation is not a 'bought and sold' view like an expert report can be, but it also is not a truly independent third-party assessment either.
I echo this and note that Paul Weiss is well respected for just this kind of approach. Any impression that Paul Weiss catered to the NFL's whims would be bad for Paul Weiss' business in this area and presumably not something the firm's leadership would condone.PedroKsBambino said:
TheoShmeo said:
See also Michael Garcia resigning from his investigatory role after FIFA tried to spin his report and refused to make all of his findings public.